WadiumArcadium
Member
Batman's always a bit of a dick and I like Batman.
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DC Extended Universe |OT2| A League of xX-=DaMaGeD=-Xx Gentlemen
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Batman's always a bit of a dick and I like Batman.
What did he mean by this?
Member
The narrative I'm seeing a lot is blame for WB for chopping up Ayer's movie and producing competiting cuts. I dont see a universe where this script worked.
The squad touching down and gearing up in a refugee camp? Them constantly accompanied by a cadre of soldiers instead of their sole handler? That's not Suicide Squad.
The plot does not fit the premise.
The squad touching down and gearing up in a refugee camp? Them constantly accompanied by a cadre of soldiers instead of their sole handler? That's not Suicide Squad.
The plot does not fit the premise.
"I don't want to do this in front of your daughter."
Then why the fuck did you swoop down in front of his daughter?
Then why the fuck did you swoop down in front of his daughter?
SJRB
Gold Member
Because he's the goddamn Batman, that's why.
He obviously means he doesn't want to give Deadshot a fucking beatdown in front of his daughter, so he'd be better off to surrender peacefully.
DecoReturns
Member
makes it easier to capture him? Dead shot probably doesn't want to fight in front of her and he's obviously not going to leave her behind.
BadAss2961
Member
It's just the 4K edition that doesn't include the Ultimate Cut on standard blu-ray.
So yeah, you dun goofed.
bryanee
Member
Yeah you can get it on the regular Blu-ray. I bought my dad the 4K version which he wanted and now he has to wait until he gets his 4k player lol.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
PS4 doesn't support 4k output and it never will. 4k version is the TC.
Guys, I was talking about F4ntastic :lol:
But yes, in a way I think something similar about SS. The first and second half of the movie are totally different. I didn't think action scenes were crap, just "meh".
But I found the movie to be pretty enjoyable, mostly because of the caracters and cast, and had a lot of fun watching it. I wasn't expecting more than that, so I'm happy with what we've got.
Yah it's kinda hard to be in full deniability and blame the squad if she goes wrong when their are clearly a bunch of US soldiers with them.
I definitely would have enjoyed they figure out the mission on their own led by deadshot much like the animated movie version.
Also too much of a good guy redemption arc for all the characters which I didn't like.
Media Outlets Seem Desperate To Report Anti-DC News, no surprised there though.
Discotheque
Banned
These online sites need the hits. These articles get so much traction. Moreso than anything else coming out of those places in a long time. I don't begrudge them for it, makes a lot of sense to me.
Fanboy culture is so strong online
BadAss2961
Member
Nothing but truth in there.
Negative DC articles must generate a lot of clicks. Sites probably figured that out after MoS.
Looks like Ayer understands Suicide Squad even less than Snyder understands Superman.
The letter is where I decided I'm done with the internet as far as DC movies are concerned. Everything has gotten way too extreme and people on all sides are saying all kinds of stupid shit. Any chance of decent discussion died when BvS reviews hit.
I have noticed it popping up on my Youtube feed alot lately.
And it's recently morphed from DC v Marvel to WB v Disney.
As much I love company wars when it's actually the talent doing it (I loved Sega and early Sony and the actors being catty), it's always kind of weird when people do it for free.
Boombloxer
Member
I'm not sure its that vs poor movies with negative reviews. Badly reviewed blockbusters with a large fan base will naturally generate more buzz.
Imagine if Rogue One or Episode 8 is bad. And Ep 7 was like a 6.5 to me--at some point, someone has to correct the design flaw in your giant space weapon.
Not exactly. Barely breaking even and opportunity costs actually do add up.
Transformers is critic proof, because it always makes a billion..but by and large, you get what you pay for, which is robot action and explosions.
The best shot for this was BvS, which couldn't even get 900 and had the JL appear as email attachments. At this point, my hopes would be on Batman solo again.
Well, it didn't live up the hype. At all.
Stuff like that the Reddit post that had the JL appearing at the end didn't help either, and neither did the people giving it 10s before the movie was out.
Now, stuff like saying "zomg worst movie evar!" is bullshit. If you want a bad movie, go suffer through Single Black Female or The Blackout or Jonah Hex or GL or Howard the fucking Duck.
None of the DC movies are that tier, but relative to expectations, of which Marvel is the gold standard (like it or not), they fall woefully short to the general audience and half the fans. It's like playing Dark Souls, then Lords of the Fallen; or Diablo 3 then Dungeon Hunter--something flat out isn't there.
Which is sad, because there's expertise in-house that obviously isn't being used.
Wonder Woman being set in WWI is fine...but will also invite comparisons to Cap 1 (which, outside of the Red Skull and Carter, zzzzzzzz).
One thing is actually the music--Zimmer and Junkie XL has given a great blueprint. WW's theme, Batman's new theme, Flight, etc are all themes worthy of their heroes. I know Zimmer is done with hero films, have a lot of faith in Junkie XL considering Deadpool and Mad Max.
broncobuster
Banned
That letter and the reaction were embarrassing. Silver lining is that most are lazy and didn't read the letter. Most checked the title, the blurbs, and followed the group. I'd like to believe anybody with the slightest amount of critical reasoning would brush it off as BS.
Whole ordeal is like believing the kid with an uncle working at Nintendo. Worse since it's anonymous. At least in primary school you knew it's coming from that twerp Trevor.
Just got around to watching SS and I thought it was pretty good. It's a fun movie IMO. My coworker saw it and complained about the finial battle but liked the movie as well. As with the other DC movies I don't know anyone in real life that hates it at all.
I loved how this movie tied into the overall universe. This already feel like a more connected universe. It's too bad it's not connecting with more people, but I really don't want them to change a lot. I liked most of Marvel's movies up until the last 3 and now they all seem stale to me. I need something different. Deadpool and these DC movies are what I want more of.
Doctor Strange does look different and interesting,but I fear it will follow that same formula and end up boring me as much as CW did. WW and JL are what I'm looking forward to the most.
I loved how this movie tied into the overall universe. This already feel like a more connected universe. It's too bad it's not connecting with more people, but I really don't want them to change a lot. I liked most of Marvel's movies up until the last 3 and now they all seem stale to me. I need something different. Deadpool and these DC movies are what I want more of.
Doctor Strange does look different and interesting,but I fear it will follow that same formula and end up boring me as much as CW did. WW and JL are what I'm looking forward to the most.
That's all true, but is besides my point. A movie not living up to the hype doesn't mean that people discussing it - fans and haters alike - are given a free pass to act like idiots. Stuff like that forum letter gaining any traction is just as embarrassing as the SaveDCFilms or whatever it was hashtag. These are ultimately just movies and these sorts of extreme reactions have sucked most any of the fun out of discussing them. People are way too invested in the failure/success of movies about people in spandex punching robots or whatever.
Exactly right.
I used to joke in threads that I could post any thing about DC films and people would believe it. I was always just taking the piss, but now....idk. lol
broncobuster
Banned
Incredibly, truly, I'm in complete agreement with Faraci's write up.
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/08/14/about-that-open-letter-to-warner-bros
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/08/14/about-that-open-letter-to-warner-bros
I agree. While I do believe the movies do deserve criticism, it really is way too much and hyperbolic. The discussion has also become far too tainted and toxic for any rational discourse to take place now. I personally enjoy the DCEU and MCU a lot, but also still hope somehow that WB and the people in charge can stay on track while acknowledging legitimate flaws and mistakes from the past to ensure their movies turn out better.
There will always be fanaticism, that's to be expected, but ignore the fanboys! I guess I'm naïve.
bishopcruz
Member
Ok, so I know SS had a 67% drop, not great, but according to Mark Hughes even if it continues to have 67% drops its entire run, it will still hit $600m worldwide. Considering the budget was $185m that's like $3,24 in gross for every dollar spent. Guardians of the Galaxy had a $3.33 gross for every dollar spent. And that was considered great. In fact if Suicide Squad pulls in the $600 million, it will have had a better return than either BvS or MoS.
So why all the doom and gloom everywhere?
So why all the doom and gloom everywhere?
Yeah, begrudgingly admit he is right
The amount of sites that just ran with this garbage without even questioning whether the author was legit was nothing short of astonishing. The online movie blog sphere is a complete dumpster fire.
SS will probably break $600M barring some kind of catastrophic collapse which should be profitable. It's not as cut and dry as your math suggests though because studios don't get 100% of the BO gross. The reported budget also doesn't take into account marketing costs. That said, the general rule of thumb is 2.5-3x budget at the WW BO is needed to hit profitability and SS should cross that easily. It wont hit the profitability of Guardians but it's not a flop. It's also not a home run either considering how much money is being left on the table had its drops been better.
The BO doom and gloom is being significantly overstated but Suicide Squad also didn't do for the DCEU what people were hoping.
Honestly if SS had done well imagine how much worse that makes Zack look. A movie called Suicide Squad starring a line up of murderers, rapists and a cannibal was more upbeat than Zack's Batman and Superman movie. Some would argue in its current form it is more upbeat than BvS.
bishopcruz
Member
I know that. They don't get all of the money, but Guardians was considered a huge success with a gross $3.33 per dollar of the budget, while SS which is looking to get close to that, is being counted as a major disappointment. It doesn't compute. Not to mention that SS will be more front loaded than GotG, which should give them a bit more of the gross than standard. The movie is doing well, not Avengers well, but it's probably doing better than expected as of a few months ago. SS was never meant to be the movie that saved the DCEU.
Discotheque
Banned
Why does batman and superman have to be upbeat tho? I wish the script was better and snyder wasn't so stupid to throw in that flash scene/knightmare sequence but I loved the tone they went for. Particularly existential/asshole batman and the world's reaction to superman.
I'm not saying all movies should be like this, there has to be some room for your guardians and the like as well but man the fans of this genre can be such close minded myopic fools sometimes.
bishopcruz
Member
Well, MoS was grim and gritty to them, so BvS is going to be considered a greek tragedy.
You can make the Knightmare work with clever editing and remove the Flash sequence.
Also, cool trivia, the sound of the world engine plays in the background of Bruce's dream about the man bat in the crypt, and the World Engine sound is heard as the Knighmare begins.
You're using that Forbes figure for Guardians which isn't the reported budget while using the reported budget for Suicide Squad. I think the Forbes figure is before tax breaks but the article itself is unclear. The official budget for Guardians is only $170M and it made $773M WW.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
i kinda liked the knightmare thingy
i think it was probably the steamiest part of the movie. hotter than clark and lois.
i mean, batman dreamt of being chained up by supes. it was bold and sort of establishes the subconscious tension between the two characters. i liked it.
not so much the flash bit though, that bit was awkward.
i think it was probably the steamiest part of the movie. hotter than clark and lois.
i mean, batman dreamt of being chained up by supes. it was bold and sort of establishes the subconscious tension between the two characters. i liked it.
not so much the flash bit though, that bit was awkward.
It doesn't have to be upbeat but it shouldn't feel as overly oppressive as it did. The main failing in tone with BvS wasn't so much the grim feel that permeated the movie but the lack of contrast between the titular characters. It was monotonous.
That's not a failure in tone, it's a specific choice in how the characters are portrayed for what kind of story is being told. Not being able to connect with this tone is the problem of the audience, not the creators, who are in no way obligated to provide a work meant to appeal in anyone in particular but themselves.
broncobuster
Banned
Second time watching the UC with a friend made me appreciate and feel for Superman. Both on screen and on a meta level. Plenty of minor moments that really sell him as a guy trying to do good in world that's become cynical. Take his modern day entrance. The military sends a drone to bomb the village, regardless of innocent casualties, all to clean up their mess. He stops it, saves who he can, and people criticize him for it. Then you read comments in real life about how he's an asshole who attacked the general pointing a gun at his ladyfriend. Likewise, for all the dreariness of the events, the movie ends on a hopeful note. As a transition from era to era I'm into what BvS was going for. And when he inevitably returns, of course I'd like him to smile and be happy. Ideally it's a result of the world coming around. And somehow work a drone into the script to give Supes the hat trick.
bishopcruz
Member
That is the official figure. Disney themselves announced it. It doesn't get more official than that.
Saying artists have no responsibility to the audience does not work for commercial art. The approach you're describing sounds nice but it's not how the actual world works. That's not to say some people don't get away with being strictly accountable only to their own vision but that depends from person to person and how much their vision naturally appeals to their audience. You can't cover yourself in shit and call it art just because it gives you meaning. In the real world, all artists who work for money have a relationship with their audience, that's just common sense.
And like I said, it looks like the figure is before taking tax breaks into account. You can't then use the estimated budget of Suicide Squad if you're going to throw out the estimated budget for Guardians which was $170M. Yes, it probably cost more than that but so did Suicide Squad. You can't use two different metrics like that to make a direct comparison.
This is why some outlets (Hollywood Reporter? I can't remember) estimate the actual break even point for Suicide Squad at the BO is $700M. I personally believe that to be an overestimation but I'm also not paid to be an analyst.
bishopcruz
Member
Taking tax breaks into account you are looking at $196 million, happy? I have no idea why you are so focused on downplaying GotG's budget, not to mention SS will have gotten Canadian tax incentives and rebate on their budget too, but whatever. As for the $700 million, that wasn't an analyst that was an anonymous source in a Hollywood reporter article that isn't backed up by anything else we know. The rule of thumb is you need to make 2.5 - 3 times the production budget to make a profit, which SS is pretty much primed to do. GotG will do better, I will not argue that, and never did, but they are in the same ballpark of profitability with the numbers we have and assuming that SS makes $600m.
No, they're not >_<
You're using a $175M budget for Suicide Squad like it's fact while using $232M for GotG as the "official" budget. These are two different metrics from two different sources, one is an estimate and the other is a figure before tax breaks. Neither paint a precise picture of profitability but if you're going to use them at all, you can't compare them with each other. Suicide Squad probably cost more than that to make even after tax incentives, just like GotG cost more than the estimated $170M.
So either you use the estimated $170M for GotG alongside the estimated $175M for Squad or you don't use either. If both cost the same amount of about $200M, a figure we have no way of confirming at this point for Suicide Squad, Guardians brought in $3.87 for ever dollar spent whereas Squad would only bring in $3.00 at a WW gross of $600M. That's a difference of 29% higher for Guardians which feeds directly into the profit margin.
Discotheque
Banned
Yep agreed with all of this. Dude is literally pushing a Boulder uphill in this film. He's constantly doing the right thing in BvS and having to face the ire of the people and Nancy Grace because of it lmao. Honestly one of the more accurate (if not the most) portrayals of these superheroes in our world. Perhaps too honest tho. A lot of people didn't like it but I personally loved that aspect of the movie.
bishopcruz
Member
I am using the best numbers that we have, you are using at least one number that is confirmed incorrect. If you have better Suicide Squad numbers, great use them. And I have no idea where you're pulling that $200 million for SS out of. But sure, I'll just agree, if both movies cost exactly the same amount to make then clearly GotG made more money, even if GotG cost $50 million more, it made more money per dollar. However the point still stands that at $600m worldwide take, the movie will have done quite well and nowhere near the disaster that people are playing it up as.
If you want to keep arguing go right ahead.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
I felt sympathy for Supes even from the original cut so yeah, agree with all of these.
What's with the hostility? I agreed with you that the movie wasn't a BO disaster in my first reply to you. The only thing I'm disagreeing with is your math comparison between Guardians and Squad which is based on numbers from different metrics which makes the comparison worthless. For all we know, Squad cost more than Guardians. Maybe it cost less. According to industry estimates though, they cost about the same. We don't know for sure at this point.
GringoSuave89
Banned
Yeah, a lot of details that didn't seem to be the case. Super odd.
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