BlackGoku03
Member
Lol it's such a weak argument I can't take anyone seriously when they say it. It's like they didn't watch Man of Steel.
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DC Extended Universe |OT3| A League of Academy Award Winners
- Thread starter IconGrist
- Start date
I can't see JL getting a good RT score, people still think Snyder kills babies for fun.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
A fresh Snyder movie... Watchmen was the last one?
Edit: tbf. MoS is at 55 with over 6 average rating.
Edit: tbf. MoS is at 55 with over 6 average rating.
If RT would have real influence on BO Suicide Squad and BvS would have bombed
JL should be able toi hit the billion, thanks to WonderWoman
Just because you felt a film capably presented a theme or character motivation to a satisfactory level doesn't mean that everyone who disagrees is creating a 'false narrative.'
Clearly you recognize you are much more devoted to and a bigger fan of Snyder's work than a lot of other people. That's perfectly fine. And of course there are some people who are unfairly harsh or critical about his work for various reasons. That's obviously true. What it doesn't mean is that everyone but you can't think critically or objectively. That's called delusion. Or an agenda, even.
It's simply one of many factors. BvS had the novelty factor of Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman on screen together for the first time so it was able to SOMEWHAT weather the storm of bad reviews. That was a movie I decided I was going to watch when I was 12 years old. Suicide Squad had similar novelty in it's favor.
Glass Rebel
Member
The same way we can't change the fact that some people actually liked MoS or BvS, you can't change that people feel negatively about Superman in these movies.
What you can change, however, is how you address those criticisms in order not to appear like a nutjob who believes people are conspiring against Zack Snyder's movies.
What you can change, however, is how you address those criticisms in order not to appear like a nutjob who believes people are conspiring against Zack Snyder's movies.
what are you saying here? i never said I was the only one capable of thinking objectively. I'm very aware that all we're talking here is strictly opinion. I just know that we really have trolls now. Took me a year to realize it.
No!!!!!!!! Never! Next thing you'll tell me Batman being highly murderous was the point to explain why Superman would take umbrage with him. Who am I kidding it just presents more plot holes like how is the Joker not dead, it's not like they present Batman killing as a new thing and they present the Joker as getting away whenever Batman finds him peaking his head above ground!
That reminds me that I saw this on Reddit the other day..
Surprised they forgot Swanwick and Lex who he saved.
Absolutely. Just saying that particular opinion had some valid and reasonable support behind it in those threads, far from some false narrative in the face of overwhelming evidence. despite the fact that trolls will add it to their list too, of course.
As a big fan of BvS, I can understand some people's complaints about the Superman inspiration line. Yes it was in the movie, and I was good with it, but it's not hard to see why it's not enough for some.
That said, some posters are definitely just trolling around, and it's honestly hard to differentiate between that and those with valid complaints. Makes it hard to be rational lol
That said, some posters are definitely just trolling around, and it's honestly hard to differentiate between that and those with valid complaints. Makes it hard to be rational lol
broncobuster
Banned
Complaints about the Superman line just remind me of complaints about Iron Man and Captain America being friends in Civil War. It's pedantic.
For those interested in Shazam, Newsarama are in the process of putting out a 12 part oral history of Captain Marvel from inception to now.
Part one
https://www.newsarama.com/35699-an-...-captain-marvel-the-fawcett-years-part-1.html
Part two
https://www.newsarama.com/35806-an-...aptain-marvel-shazam-the-lost-years-pt-1.html
Part three
https://www.newsarama.com/35763-an-...n-marvel-shazam-the-fawcett-years-part-3.html
Part one
https://www.newsarama.com/35699-an-...-captain-marvel-the-fawcett-years-part-1.html
Part two
https://www.newsarama.com/35806-an-...aptain-marvel-shazam-the-lost-years-pt-1.html
Part three
https://www.newsarama.com/35763-an-...n-marvel-shazam-the-fawcett-years-part-3.html
I take it literally
He was a beacon to the world, how Zod found Earth. How Steppenwolf and his forces learn about Earth
David F Sandberg has the best Twitter of all DC directors. Can't wait for Shazam news.
KDash31987
Member
Found on eBay. These were shown off at San Diego Comic-Con. Not sure what stores they'll be available at. Still looking out for Mera and Parademon.
I just got done building two more DETOLF cases (I now have 5) to finally display all the Batman/Joker figs that have been sitting unopened for the past 2 years. I have all the Batman ones displayed, but took a break before doing the Jokers. I'm planning ahead this time to leave room for all the Justice League Batman figs, regular suit and tech suit from all the various companies. If they're showing up in stores now, I'll be on the look out for them.
KDash31987
Member
Great way to sell a black dude toy to a white parent
David F Sandberg has the best Twitter of all DC directors. Can't wait for Shazam news.
Lol
Was hoping for Cena as Shazam, but it seems like he might be busy with the Bumblebee movie
I remember seeing his mask on the first full JL trailer. That trailer was so much better than the recent one.
In the next (final?) JL they really gotta show Cyborg do something. Anything.
Ray Fisher seems like a really cool dude, so I hope the character has some great moments we haven't yet soon. Right now, he's just kinda lame.
Smokey_Run
Member
I mean, he had an Iron Man moment in the first trailer.
KDash31987
Member
Come Together was super weak, I agree
The CC footage was fine, what I dislike is the cut down version of it for theaters, it's so sloppy.
I've seen it before and it kind of hits the nail on the head as to why civil war is ultimately hollow and BvS isn't.
One respects the world it's set in and its people within and explores how both are affected by the existence of the heroes and how that itself affects the heroes too. Civil War only cynically pays lip service to the concept and essentially sees the world and people in it as nothing more than window dressing to serve the heroes motives, what happens to the people and places that are supposedly affected by the avengers is of no real importance to the russos. It's a cowardly movie.
BadAss2961
Member
You're really pissing off OT with this Civil War crusade. lol
MCU is incredibly shallow. What else is new?
What else is new? Wanna know a secret I actually find CW entertaining as a movie. I just think if you apply the same level of scrutiny people apply to BVS to CW, CW falls apart whilst BVS stands up to it. I think JL and Thor 3 surprisingly will be my favourite films of the year. The latter looks like the Heavy Metal magazine and Boris Vallejo movie I always wanted./ WW and Homecoming didn't really stick the landing on the third act for me. I got a bit bored during WW during the Ares fight and i dozed off during the Vulture fight. But before that I enjoyed most of the initial 2/3 of both movies.
Finaika
Member
Why would T'Challa care about non Wakandans?
The funny thing is the Snyder movies show the heroes doing more "good" stuff for normal people than any of the Marvel movies until Spiderman.
One core issue I have with the MCU is they are solely focused on giant threats, often of their own creation, and the only people they rescue are those in the path of the big bad.
All three DCEU movies routinely show heroes having hero moments.
I think the core of the issue is
1) Superman not saving his dad which is a dumb scene that should not have happened.
2) The Congressional scene is totally fine except for his facial reaction. Maybe it's the extended cut only that shows him saving people after, I don't recall.
3) All the scenes of the Kents telling him not to be a hero.
4) The total destruction of Metropolis fight scene with Zod was too much. Superman would have saved people and gotten hit doing so.
Batman straight up shooting people is his only real flaw. The branding = death stuff is explained better and is something he did because he was losing his grip and was not doing it with the intent of having them killed in prison, and the prison deaths were Luthor trying to sway him to madness anyway.
Wonder Woman is amazing and perfect in every way.
I think the DCEU is actually far closer to having good hero tropes of good people trying to do the right thing than Marvel does. Most of the plots of the MCU movies are them trying to stop a thing that they either directly or indirectly were the cause of.
Hulk, Captain America 1&2, and the original Avengers is, as far as I can recall the only ones where the bad guys motivation and/or power source is not directly an Avengers fault.
One core issue I have with the MCU is they are solely focused on giant threats, often of their own creation, and the only people they rescue are those in the path of the big bad.
All three DCEU movies routinely show heroes having hero moments.
I think the core of the issue is
1) Superman not saving his dad which is a dumb scene that should not have happened.
2) The Congressional scene is totally fine except for his facial reaction. Maybe it's the extended cut only that shows him saving people after, I don't recall.
3) All the scenes of the Kents telling him not to be a hero.
4) The total destruction of Metropolis fight scene with Zod was too much. Superman would have saved people and gotten hit doing so.
Batman straight up shooting people is his only real flaw. The branding = death stuff is explained better and is something he did because he was losing his grip and was not doing it with the intent of having them killed in prison, and the prison deaths were Luthor trying to sway him to madness anyway.
Wonder Woman is amazing and perfect in every way.
I think the DCEU is actually far closer to having good hero tropes of good people trying to do the right thing than Marvel does. Most of the plots of the MCU movies are them trying to stop a thing that they either directly or indirectly were the cause of.
Hulk, Captain America 1&2, and the original Avengers is, as far as I can recall the only ones where the bad guys motivation and/or power source is not directly an Avengers fault.
I think what Marvel has nailed is emotional resonance in scenes. None of the Avengers save Captain America is purely altruistic. Like you said, they mostly clean up their own messes or their heroism is self-serving in some way. But the movies manage to nail those large moments when the heroics start up and everyone is rescuing people or fighting the bad guys and you feel like they're really about this hero shit.
The DCEU, thus far, has the heroism down. Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman are all about saving people and making the world a better place at the cost of their own lives or comfort. Problem is that until Wonder Woman, it didn't resonant because the films do such a poor job of creating that emotional attachment to the characters. That's why even though Superman spends almost the entirety of Man of Steel's runtime saving people, so many who saw it became fixated on the people he didn't save. Because the movie's plot was so much about second guessing his heroics and reserved its bigger emotional moments for the times Clark didn't save someone (his dad, the final battle).
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
maybe space jesus is snyder himself 🤔
GringoSuave89
Banned
Hydrokinetic Mera is bae.
MHWilliams
Member
The Metropolis and Smallville fights are definitely one of the missteps. Both scenes look amazing, but doesn't really feel like a Superman out to save everyone. Combined with Pa Kent's specific bent and you have a Superman that doesn't really feel all that heroic and BvS only somewhat deals with him, because it's partially concerned with setting up Batman and Luthor.
Like, you can dive into the minutiae of each and every scene, but you're still left with the fact that the average moviegoer apparently looks at MoS and BvS and goes... "That's not really Superman." And if you're doing "the Superman learns to be a hero", but are better executed versions across the decades or canon and Elseworlds-style books. That's an idea you can sell well. Snyder didn't really do that. (My thought is he was always more of a Batman fan, but yeah.)
I honestly has less of an issue with Batman given his general lack of caring for villains in previous films.
Wonder Woman is a good example of nailing the emotional beat. Wonder Woman absolutely kills some folks as a result of her actions in those films, but she overall feels more heroic. That's what Marvel does well that the DCEU missed until WW. Like, I literally listed all the folks Captain America outright kills in the beginning of Winter Soldier, but the audience is still left with a Cap that feels like a hero.
I agree with you that it's emotional attachment that people have with a character that allows people to feel certain ways about a character. People had an emotional attachment to Reeves and that's why they felt he was more heroic than Cavil despite him punching kryptonians through crowded skyscrapers ironically something Cavill never did, people insisting Cavill never saved anyone despite him engaging in objectively like 4 times as many heroic acts, Bale's Batman is totally not a mass murderer honest etc. I recall Kevin Smith who liked MOS debate Garman who hated it, and Kevin basically saying things like remember Zod was killed in Supermsm 2, Lois not knowing Superman's identity would make her an idiot, Costner's cynicism is well founded etc. I could add John Kent in Superman 1 never said you should go out and save people despite what some people claiming he just said he should do more than play football. Something Costner said in MOS.
Discotheque
Banned
Gonna be honest no characters in either cinematic universe has been remotely emotionally engaging to me. So nah I don't think marvel has an edge on dc with that at all right now. When people on this forum talk about how inspiring Evans' Cap is I always feel so out of the loop.
In regards to BvS i find a lot of the plot contrivances annoying and can't fuck with these third act action scenes anymore but it's gotta be the most interesting comic cinematic universe movie for me. One thing they got really right with both BvS and Wonder Woman was their impact on the world around them as they do their hero shit or conversely scare the crap out of the ppl too. It feels more impactful.
Plus I admire making Batman the villain of the story and making their big first time Batman/Superman movie be such a strangely paced and morose superhero epic.
If that movie ended at the warehouse fight and the capturing of Luthor it would be a top 10 superhero flick for me. Did not care for that cheesy ass superman death or doomsday fight one bit.
Also I personally loved that scene when Clark talks to his ghost dad in BvS. Not many comic movies are willing to stop and give you shit like that any longer. I just wish I cared more about this Clark Kent. Superman is an amazing character and the Chris Reeves DNA is all over some of the most likeable on screen superheroes too tbh with Tobey Spider-Man and Gals Wonder Woman
In regards to BvS i find a lot of the plot contrivances annoying and can't fuck with these third act action scenes anymore but it's gotta be the most interesting comic cinematic universe movie for me. One thing they got really right with both BvS and Wonder Woman was their impact on the world around them as they do their hero shit or conversely scare the crap out of the ppl too. It feels more impactful.
Plus I admire making Batman the villain of the story and making their big first time Batman/Superman movie be such a strangely paced and morose superhero epic.
If that movie ended at the warehouse fight and the capturing of Luthor it would be a top 10 superhero flick for me. Did not care for that cheesy ass superman death or doomsday fight one bit.
Also I personally loved that scene when Clark talks to his ghost dad in BvS. Not many comic movies are willing to stop and give you shit like that any longer. I just wish I cared more about this Clark Kent. Superman is an amazing character and the Chris Reeves DNA is all over some of the most likeable on screen superheroes too tbh with Tobey Spider-Man and Gals Wonder Woman
BadAss2961
Member
I had figured that out early on. Taking the scrutiny put on BvS and applying it to Civil War, then watch people go from the highest standards down to the lowest to defend whatever bits of fuckery must've happened in Civil War.
broncobuster
Banned
I think BvS dispels any notion Snyder is more of a Batman fan than a Superman fan.
And yeah, what I appreciate so much about BvS are its ambitions. It's partly why that Doomsday fight is disappointing, despite having some of the better action among those sorts of scenes. I mean, Wonder Woman's entrance was dope and I love the imagery of Batman and others looking up at the nuke explosion. But it could've done without something so flashy. Having Superman sacrifice himself twice makes the second lose its impact.
I'll concede the movie would've been better with a preceding Batman movie to show what his "normal" was before he went off the rails. Wonder Woman's role and JL hooks should've been different. They're necessary as a transitioning point; not only for JL the movie but expanding the world beyond what it was.
And yeah, what I appreciate so much about BvS are its ambitions. It's partly why that Doomsday fight is disappointing, despite having some of the better action among those sorts of scenes. I mean, Wonder Woman's entrance was dope and I love the imagery of Batman and others looking up at the nuke explosion. But it could've done without something so flashy. Having Superman sacrifice himself twice makes the second lose its impact.
I'll concede the movie would've been better with a preceding Batman movie to show what his "normal" was before he went off the rails. Wonder Woman's role and JL hooks should've been different. They're necessary as a transitioning point; not only for JL the movie but expanding the world beyond what it was.
Metropolis I can agree with, but he at least tried in the Smallville fight IMO. He saved a few pilots (or 1) and there wasn't many civilians in there. He didn't do any outrageous property damage in that one either IIRC, mainly because he was the one being thrown around lol
MHWilliams
Member
The military part of the fight was one of the great spots, letting Clark interact with the soldiers and SVU.
Very true. It's like people were disappointed with the movie and then everything in the movie was wrong to the point where I seriously question whether some people were paying attention. I don't have a problem with people disliking BVS contrary to popular opinion and I can find many posts of me saying as such. Some films no matter how well acted, written or shot may not reason are with you. I just hate the silly criticism thrown one film's way but when the same arguments are thrown the other way with additional points it doesn't matter cos reasons. Look at how Superman is pensive/emo/mopey depending on your opinion on the film because when he's unfairly criticised for Africa he engages in contemplation about his actions and what role he should play and he has the audacity to try to hold himself to account and try to defend his actions to people who he honestly doesn't have to if he felt like it. Meanwhile Cap's distrust of authority and refusal to even entertain the idea he could be wrong is championed because he's Captain America and just because elected officials change, the opinions of Avengers are perrenial, just ask Tony Stark! I don't get it.
I really like the interview scene with him in "handcuffs". He talks candidly to SVU and with power/authority. It was a great scene, and something that BvS was sorely missing.
Man of Steel is so good..
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
what was snyder thinking with them dildo ships tho