Yea I mean, let's not forget the kinds of characterizations and circumstances that made Green Arrow so popular back in the day in the first place. Those books featured an ultra liberal (for the time) Ollie dealing with issues that just weren't touched in mainstream comics at the time. I have no problem with them being unsubtle while returning him to his roots.
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DC Rebirth |OT| It's not a reboot, and it always was [SPOILERS for Rebirth #1]
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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Yea I mean, let's not forget the kinds of characterizations and circumstances that made Green Arrow so popular back in the day in the first place. Those books featured an ultra liberal (for the time) Ollie dealing with issues that just weren't touched in mainstream comics at the time. I have no problem with them being unsubtle while returning him to his roots.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Well, it's not an either or proposition. We can have Ollie as the liberal crusader without having him run around going "Muhahaha, it is I, the Social Justice Warrior! Get rekt Trump!" Good writers have him as a guy whose ideals run counter to the status quo. Bad writers make him a caricature, a strawman espousing crappy pastiches of liberal ideals. The book isn't the latter but it's much closer to that then the first.
bishopcruz
Member
I think part of it is, Ollie for much of his modern career has been a self righteous fairly douche-y liberal. It's part of his character, and this is from someone who tends to hate political straw men in my media. It's no where near as bad as say turning Red Skull into a literal Trump stand in or similar things that have been happening on the Marvel side of the pond.
Chiaroscuro
Member
I don't like Ollie liberal side as much as him as a street level hero with concerns about people. He is the DC Daredevil, if that makes sense.
That is why I love Grell's run and I don't like him as CEO.
That is why I love Grell's run and I don't like him as CEO.
I have to admit, I was pretty skeptical, if not totally dismissive, of this whole thing going into it. Another DC reset? Helmed by Geoff Johns, a fan-favorite writer that I've never been much of a fan of? So I totally ignored it at first. Then those Watchmen spoilers hit, and I thought on the one hand, how dumb and borderline insulting to Alan Moore...but on the other hand, kind of interesting.
So I read the special...and damn it, it worked on me. Maybe it's because Mark Waid's Flash is one of my favorite comics runs ever (I never really liked Johns' run because he treated as more of a Barry lite, and focused more on the Rogues anyway), but bringing back Wally and making his love for the DC characters and legacies such an instrumental part of the story just really won me over. I liked it.
For about five years, my DC reading has basically just been about Snyder's Batman. I gave New 52 a chance at first, and did dabble in a couple other books for a while (Morrison's Action Comics, Azzarello's Wonder Woman, Animal Man and Swamp Thing) but lost interest in them and the greater status quo, so my pull list ended up just being the one Batman title. New 52 ended up being a jumping off point for me. Now I'm jumping back in. Green Arrow was great, I'm going to give Tomasi's Superman and King's Batman a shot, and will probably read through most if not every one of the Rebirth specials down the line to see what else to add to my pull list - Giffen on Blue Beetle again has me especially hyped.
So I read the special...and damn it, it worked on me. Maybe it's because Mark Waid's Flash is one of my favorite comics runs ever (I never really liked Johns' run because he treated as more of a Barry lite, and focused more on the Rogues anyway), but bringing back Wally and making his love for the DC characters and legacies such an instrumental part of the story just really won me over. I liked it.
For about five years, my DC reading has basically just been about Snyder's Batman. I gave New 52 a chance at first, and did dabble in a couple other books for a while (Morrison's Action Comics, Azzarello's Wonder Woman, Animal Man and Swamp Thing) but lost interest in them and the greater status quo, so my pull list ended up just being the one Batman title. New 52 ended up being a jumping off point for me. Now I'm jumping back in. Green Arrow was great, I'm going to give Tomasi's Superman and King's Batman a shot, and will probably read through most if not every one of the Rebirth specials down the line to see what else to add to my pull list - Giffen on Blue Beetle again has me especially hyped.
In the book he all but says he's a CEO to pay for the gadgets and gear.
Chiaroscuro
Member
I know but he does not need to be rich for basic gadgets and arrows.
he gotta have some money. lol, if Batman can do it let green arrow too.
Chiaroscuro
Member
That is exactly I don't want Ollie to be, a Batman rip off.
He doesn't have to be, you could have him give the company to someone else and focus all his time in a Queen non profit.
why can't there be more than one rich hero?
batman appeared in comics only two years before green arrow. so it is not like he is rip off.
Poodlestrike
Banned
No, he's absolutely a ripoff, it's part of the character and it always has been. Better to own it and play up the points of contrast like Ollie's liberal firebrand tendencies.
Elaugaufein
Member
Part of Ollie's problem as a knockoff is that DC owns both and Batman is usually good at so much stuff that what Ollie's better at in terms of skills is shooting things with arrows (if DC is being kind to him at the time that may even extent to projectiles generally). So yeah he really does need distinct character traits as well.
I imagine the tech required to fit flash bangs, grappling hooks, cyro freezers, and freaking boxing gloves inside of arrow heads cost a fair amount of change.
oh he really is :O. I am only familiar with the character through tv shows.
MHWilliams
Member
Seems ooc for Luthor to where the El crest.
Luthor gets branding.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Seems ooc for Luthor to where the El crest.
I believe they explain it that Luthor wants to make his greatest enemy's symbol his own as one final "fuck you" to Superman.
Crimson-Death
Member
KonradLaw
Member
Yeah...so there's justice in this world afterall. Green Arrow Rebirth sold over 90K copies in a week 
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/report-green-arrow-rebirth-1-sells-over-90000-copies
Awesomeness. Well deserved.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/report-green-arrow-rebirth-1-sells-over-90000-copies
Awesomeness. Well deserved.
Z
ZombieFred
Unconfirmed Member
Man that's awesome and I even purchased Green Arrow and have not' bought a comic in years!
Roland_Gunner
Member
Yeah...so there's justice in this world afterall. Green Arrow Rebirth sold over 90K copies in a week
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/report-green-arrow-rebirth-1-sells-over-90000-copies
Awesomeness. Well deserved.
Pretty impressive considering that the nu52 Green Arrow #1 only sold 55K, although a second print did another 10K
Bear Force One
Banned
Fantastic news. Bringing lapsed fans back.
Yeah...so there's justice in this world afterall. Green Arrow Rebirth sold over 90K copies in a week
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/report-green-arrow-rebirth-1-sells-over-90000-copies
Awesomeness. Well deserved.
We were talking about this a bit over the weekend in the Comics thread. Comics print sales are weird, it's not actually tracking number of copies sold through to consumers, but copies sold from Diamond (the distributor) to shops.
What will be interesting is when the June Diamond sales numbers are released, if GA charts at less than 90k then we'll finally have an idea of digital sales (those numbers are never released). If it comes in at ~90k print, then we still have zero clue about digital numbers, but could probably postulate that print plus digital would put it over 100k, which is bonkers.
Either way that's a huge number and it's a sign tons of people are at least buying the one shots. And if Green Arrow is doing 90k, Batman is going to pull down INSANE numbers.
BaraSailey
Member
Another interview with Tynion about 'Tec with some new preview pages for anyone who's interested:
http://www.newsarama.com/29601-dete...roes-including-new-costume-for-tim-drake.html
The art and coloring in this looks fantastic! The dialogue seems in character as well so that gives me some hope for Tim.
http://www.newsarama.com/29601-dete...roes-including-new-costume-for-tim-drake.html
The art and coloring in this looks fantastic! The dialogue seems in character as well so that gives me some hope for Tim.
Seems ooc for Luthor to where the El crest.
His crest now.
BKatastrophe
Member
Yea I loved the nightwing series.
MisterHero
Super Member
Didn't Green Arrow become mayor of his city for a while? Was that a good run?
I have high hopes for this and Tim. Hopefully Tynion doesn't drag too much Harper Row into it. Also hoping they don't treat Tim like some lost amateur. He's been around longer than Batwoman for goodness sakes.
I really like going on twitter and seeing all the artist and writers renewed vigor. I love seeing them be proud about trying to get DC back to being great again. They really can't wait to see what they have in store for us.
Also, two images from Aquaman #1:
so fucking gooood
Elaugaufein
Member
Harper retired, to focus on her studies, at the end of Batman and Robin Eternal. That may or may not stick but it seems DC intends for her to be inactive right now.
ETA - The Bat timeline is kinda messy nu52 do we know if Tim is more experienced than Batwoman now ? The first we saw of him was in Titans and we don't know long he was with Batman training.
I mean pre-Nu52 its DS doubtful that anyone except Oracle could lock Tim out of his systems for long and here Spoilers threatening it. Even given that Spoiler is more skilled this time around that seems to indicate Tim's skills aren't what they were.
Poodlestrike
Banned
That was a really weird moment, because even now this Spoiler isn't particularly tech savvy? That's more Harper's area.
Elaugaufein
Member
To be fair if Spoiler is supposed to be operating at around the level of a Robin "not particularly skilled relatively" is very skilled indeed by the standard of sane people. I mean Tim was the worst fighter pre-Rebirth which meant he might have needed some help when dealing with multiple really good League of Assassins types. When you stick to the Gotham books its kinda easy to forget that almost everyone is objectively hyperskilled at almost everything and the actual differences are usually large only relatively (when they actually range from world class human expert to borderline superhuman).
Something in Gotham's water produces the Mad and Geniuses and Mad Geniuses.
flaxknuckles
Member
Would be a lot more effective if there weren't five other Superpeople running around. Still, I can dig The Superior Superman and am going to pick up Lex's book when it comes out.
Yeah...so there's justice in this world afterall. Green Arrow Rebirth sold over 90K copies in a week
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/report-green-arrow-rebirth-1-sells-over-90000-copies
Awesomeness. Well deserved.
Dang, I know this is good but compared to how many #1 copies Marvel is able to sell this seems disappointing.
Tynion mentioned she would be showing up on twitter and his issues with her in Eternal was some of the worst. Good point bout the timeline, but I have faith from some comments that rebirth is bringing back some of the good things from pre flashpoint.
Yeah, that Spoiler stuff is strange. If they start shilling Spoiler at the expense of other peoples skills I'm gonna laugh. Is she gonna beat up Cass next?
Elaugaufein
Member
Roland_Gunner
Member
Most of Marvel's #1s have multiple variants that you have to buy a large number of issues to qualify for. The DC Rebirth issues only have one 50/50 variant so the total is less inflated. For instance, Dr Strange #1 sold 145K copies but the second issue was down to 65K. Green Arrow will also fall a lot but it wouldn't surprise me if the second issue is roughly equal to Strange's.
Schweinehund
Member
That AC splash looks interesting but... jurgens...
exmachina64
Banned
I really like going on twitter and seeing all the artist and writers renewed vigor. I love seeing them be proud about trying to get DC back to being great again. They really can't wait to see what they have in store for us.
Also, two images from Aquaman #1:
Nice.
pock3tmonster
Banned
I really like going on twitter and seeing all the artist and writers renewed vigor. I love seeing them be proud about trying to get DC back to being great again. They really can't wait to see what they have in store for us.
Also, two images from Aquaman #1:
This looks great! I can't wait for Aquaman. I just bought Jeff Parker's complete New 52 run to "tide" me over until #1. I'm also thinking about buying issues #41 to #51. What's the general consensus on DCYou Aquaman?
Bear Force One
Banned
Yeah no. He's been aces on Clark & Lois.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
So I thought Green Arrow was kind of a generic super hero comic with some groan-inducing lines about being a social justice warrior (but fine, it carves out a defined lane for him, if 'the hero Tumblr deserves' is it, then so be it, it fits). But Batman was...a decent setup Batman comic. I'm not quite sure why this thread is so high on GA but so down on Bats.
BKatastrophe
Member
I didn't. I thought it was very okay, with only Barrows being the good part. It felt like a step back in Dick's character arc from pre-Flashpoint. On top of that, most of the arcs were just tie-ins to the Court of Owls stuff. The Chicago stuff, which is the stuff that really digs into something unique for Dick, loses Barrows (a big negative) and ends up just being a rehash of Bludhaven. Only it's worse than Bludhaven, which is never even mentioned, in that it feels immensely rushed and any cool storylines they start are either rushed or plain unfinished.
It's not good, but it's not terrible either.
Elaugaufein
Member
Part of it is that Green Arrows baseline is much lower, Green Arrow gets far fewer and far shorter runs of "good stories"* than Batman so a good Green Arrow story is more relatively impressive than a good Batman story.
The other part is that Green Arrow Rebirth is much better at being a Rebirth issue it establishes a new status quo fairly cleanly, Batman by contrast feels much more like its just a super compressed Batman story (not a bad one but one that could do with like at least 2 more issues) with the status quo changes feeling like they were just thrown in.
* most of Green Arrows "defining" stuff is in the 70s and 80s.Then he spent a fair chunk of the 90s dead. And the post - 2000s resurrection weren't kind to him (Identity Crisis, the Black Canary/Green Arrow Wedding, Cry for Justice, and Fall of Green Arrow range from meh to terrible).
KonradLaw
Member
Yeah. And now with how awesome Grayson is the standards for Dick has risen incredibly. I hope that Seely will be able to hold up the quality without King around.
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