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[BKatastrophe]

Well..at least it had action and emotional moments. Can't say the same about DD. I did have problem with character's decision in Flash's finale, but this little crappy problem doesn't change that this episode had a lot of cool moments. And most of all it was preceeded by plenty of great eps. The writers knew how to escalate the plot near the end, something DD writers have no idea how to acomplish.

I get it. You don't like DD. That's not what I'm arguing here.

The problem I have with The Flash finale is, at its core, the premise works: Eobard manipulates Barry into traveling back in time, something that many are reluctant to allow. The problem here is that they do allow it. Barry's dad says no, but can't do anything because he's in jail; Joe says he doesn't want it to happen, but tells Barry to do it; Iris says "do what makes you happy," because fuck it, why should she care about a potentially reality-ending scenario? Stein is unbelievable curious, and thus is willing to help on that front, but is also wary of the risks and thus is reluctant to proceed; Ronnie just seems to not care, I guess. Just sort of there; Cisco is extremely against it at all costs, but assists anyway for reasons I can't discern; Caitlin expresses a lot of worry about the loss of all the relationships that have been built up (and also doesn't know what a singularity is, but again, neither here nor there) over time; and finally, Eddie just doesn't give a shit.

The issue is that, if they wanted Eobard to manipulate Barry into going back in time, the writers should have crafted a scenario where Barry is so enveloped in rage and pain that he doesn't realize what he's doing. He's so focused on taking Eobard down, that he falls right into his ploy. You can still have a scene of him realizing he fucked up, and coming back, but it wouldn't be as powerful. Eobard is still a threat, so having him retreat to an alternate future or some such. Maybe having Eddie commit suicide could still work. A scenario in which Barry goes back in time and no one even has the chance to stop it is honestly what I feel is a far better approach.

My base point is that having Barry calculate and fully understand every risk and have full knowledge of what would happen at the outcome and STILL do it is mind-bogglingly dumb. Not to mention the fact that everyone assists him. And sure, those touching moments pay off, but the pay-off moment only occurs after a chain of stupid decisions, and one could arguably say that those moments amount to nothing because a reality-ending singularity shows up anyway.

 

[BodiesWithoutOrgans]

Still re watching season 2 of arrow damn the Sarah story is soooooooooo good she a great actress she will awesome in legends of tomorrow

 

[Wiktor]

My base point is that having Barry calculate and fully understand every risk and have full knowledge of what would happen at the outcome and STILL do it is mind-bogglingly dumb. Not to mention the fact that everyone assists him. And sure, those touching moments pay off, but the pay-off moment only occurs after a chain of stupid decisions, and one could arguably say that those moments amount to nothing because a reality-ending singularity shows up anyway.

I think Barry making that decision makes sense. Everybody else supporting him doesn't. Objectively it is a good decision. It restores the original timeline plus it erases all the evil Wells and other metas have done.
But I didn't like that he never was shown to actually calculate that. This is the kind of heavy decision he should make based on lot of soulsearching and it wasn't shown how he arrived at that decision. But still...I could understand that.

Now everybody else (aside from maybe Stein) is a dumbass here. Why marry with Ronnie when it will be wiped out and most likely you will never ever met the guy in new timeline Caitlin? Why the hell are Eddie and Iris getting together when that reconciliantion as well as whole relationship will be wiped out in few hours?

 

[Poodlestrike]

I think Barry making that decision makes sense. Everybody else supporting him doesn't. Objectively it is a good decision. It restores the original timeline plus it erases all the evil Wells and other metas have done.
But I didn't like that he never was shown to actually calculate that. This is the kind of heavy decision he should make based on lot of soulsearching and it wasn't shown how he arrived at that decision. But still...I could understand that.

Now everybody else (aside from maybe Stein) is a dumbass here. Why marry with Ronnie when it will be wiped out and most likely you will never ever met the guy in new timeline Caitlin? Why the hell are Eddie and Iris getting together when that reconciliantion as well as whole relationship will be wiped out in few hours?

Because it still happened to them. As far as their, personal perspective is concerned, it'll have happened. Just because it won't matter to their New/Old Timeline selves, doesn't mean it won't matter to them.

 

[Tabby]

I'm going to interrupt your exciting debate to let y'all know that the synopsis guy is doing all the earlier Flash episodes.

Here's Episode 2.

 

[morningbus]

I dunno guys, I'm pretty sure everyone should have had a nihilistic psychotic break where they realized nothing matters anymore, stripped off their clothes and started fucking and shitting in and on anything they could find.

Just more lazy CW writing for tweens.

 

[BodiesWithoutOrgans]

I miss Moira so much

 

[BodiesWithoutOrgans]

Omg Cisco and kaithlyn just appeared in arrow season 2 and Cisco said to kaithlyn when they saw a bad guy "you getting a bad vibe from this guy" vibe a vibe lol how far in advance do they plan this stuff

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Omg Cisco and kaithlyn just appeared in arrow season 2 and Cisco said to kaithlyn when they saw a bad guy "you getting a bad vibe from this guy" vibe a vibe lol how far in advance do they plan this stuff

I'm telling you there's a lot of Season 2 stuff that I caught in Season 1 lol.


Same going into Season 3.

 

[BKatastrophe]

I think Barry making that decision makes sense. Everybody else supporting him doesn't. Objectively it is a good decision. It restores the original timeline plus it erases all the evil Wells and other metas have done.
But I didn't like that he never was shown to actually calculate that. This is the kind of heavy decision he should make based on lot of soulsearching and it wasn't shown how he arrived at that decision. But still...I could understand that.

Now everybody else (aside from maybe Stein) is a dumbass here. Why marry with Ronnie when it will be wiped out and most likely you will never ever met the guy in new timeline Caitlin? Why the hell are Eddie and Iris getting together when that reconciliantion as well as whole relationship will be wiped out in few hours?

It's not an objectively good decision by any stretch, though. The original timeline (where Barry's mom lives) is already impossible to achieve because Barry going back to stop Past Eobard creates a whole new timeline. That was pointed out. The whole thing was a pipe dream, and it ended up playing out in a terrible way (reality ending black hole)

 

[ZeroX03]

Omg Cisco and kaithlyn just appeared in arrow season 2 and Cisco said to kaithlyn when they saw a bad guy "you getting a bad vibe from this guy" vibe a vibe lol how far in advance do they plan this stuff

They mention Harrison Wells in Barry's second episode of S2 Arrow too.

 

[G-Fex]

I'm going to interrupt your exciting debate to let y'all know that the synopsis guy is doing all the earlier Flash episodes.

Here's Episode 2.

That's some good bamboozling

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Lexi Alexander, director of Punisher: War Zone, to direct Arrow episode(s?) next season:

http://www.newsarama.com/24744-punisher-war-zone-director-hired-to-direct-arrow-episode.html

 

[Wiktor]

Lexi Alexander, director of Punisher: War Zone, to direct Arrow episode(s?) next season:

http://www.newsarama.com/24744-punisher-war-zone-director-hired-to-direct-arrow-episode.html

Punisher Olie returns I hope

 

[ZeroX03]

Percy Jackson 2 director Thor Freudenthal directed the awesome Flash episode 'Out of Time'. Also Arrow's 'The Climb' and 'Al Sah-him'. His weather effects direction are on point, I hope he's back for future Weather Wizard installments.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Lexi Alexander, director of Punisher: War Zone, to direct Arrow episode(s?) next season:

http://www.newsarama.com/24744-punisher-war-zone-director-hired-to-direct-arrow-episode.html

I never watched the movie, but I've heard at the very least it has solid action sequences, so that much I can expect.

I felt that the fights in Arrow this past season got a little repetitive near the end. A lot of circle pans. Not a bad thing, they just felt very...same-y. I feel like my criticism isn't valid because I can't explain it properly, but just something about the way they were shot and constructed felt very repetitive.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

Lexi Alexander, director of Punisher: War Zone, to direct Arrow episode(s?) next season:

http://www.newsarama.com/24744-punisher-war-zone-director-hired-to-direct-arrow-episode.html

 

[Gonzalez]

Lexi Alexander, director of Punisher: War Zone, to direct Arrow episode(s?) next season:

http://www.newsarama.com/24744-punisher-war-zone-director-hired-to-direct-arrow-episode.html

Crossing my fingers for Ollie to shoot a parkour asshole mid-air with a arrow launcher or something.

Edit: beaten to eat.

 

[Wiktor]

Percy Jackson 2 director Thor Freudenthal directed the awesome Flash episode 'Out of Time'. Also Arrow's 'The Climb' and 'Al Sah-him'. His weather effects direction are on point, I hope he's back for future Weather Wizard installments.

Hope so. The Climb is my favorite episode of Arrow ever

 

[Averon]

Man I that Supergirl pilot was...rough.

The special effects were so-so at best (seriously, the special effects between Supergirl and The Flash is stark), but this is a pilot and I'm assuming all the effects weren't in place.

The acting was serviceable at best, with a lot of it feeling overly cheesy and unconvincing to me.

I hope the pilot isn't an indication for the rest of the show and it is just the rough nature of pilots and the actors getting a feel for their roles because if it is, I'll be skipping it.

 

[BodiesWithoutOrgans]

I'm telling you there's a lot of Season 2 stuff that I caught in Season 1 lol.


Same going into Season 3.

They mention Harrison Wells in Barry's second episode of S2 Arrow too.

I know how cool is that it's funny watching back

 

[DeathyBoy]

I never watched the movie, but I've heard at the very least it has solid action sequences, so that much I can expect.

I felt that the fights in Arrow this past season got a little repetitive near the end. A lot of circle pans. Not a bad thing, they just felt very...same-y. I feel like my criticism isn't valid because I can't explain it properly, but just something about the way they were shot and constructed felt very repetitive.

It's a valid critique. Sadly, shows get comfortable as they go on. The crew gets better at doing things, but they don't deviate. Which is why it's nice having guest directors - people who will force their perspective, and thus inspire regular directors to step up their games and try new shit. I mean the best shot episode of Angel was the one Sean Astin did because he threw in so much off the wall shit and awesomely random camera angles, to the extent it felt unique. Then the next week was back to static shots.

 

[DeSo]

As someone who just finished up Flash season one, I just want to say that Jesse L. Martin is probably too good an actor for this show. He is as big a star as the Flash for me.

 

[Oddduck]

As someone who just finished up Flash season one, I just want to say that Jesse L. Martin is probably too good an actor for this show. He is as big a star as the Flash for me.

Agreed. He's really good in this show.

 

[Ahasverus]

Is Iris black in the comics now? Because she should, I loved Iris.

Edit:I just wiki read and she is not only a redhead but she was born in the future and Joe doesn't exist and she didn't live with Barry wtf, fix it, DC.

 

[Schweinehund]

Taking cues from movies/shows can go horribly wrong

There's a stand alone arrow/flash comic for the tv show anyway. Usually the most popular elements get adapted to comics, Superman's crystal fortress and Batman's suit was adapted in Troika.

Curious to how they'll handle Wally. I don't ever recall Joe mentioning he has another son or daughter so I'm guessing the nephew aspect will be ditched. Wonder if it will be a Kid Flash as well or if we're getting adult Wally. My guess is most of this season is going to be parallel universe shenanigans and we'll get Jay and Wally at the very least, and maybe Bart.

As far as Daredevil goes it's missing something for me. I don't care much for Foggie, maybe I secretly like the CW drama more than I thought . For a netflix series the pace seems a bit slow coming off Flash/Arrow. I'm only on episode 2 but I don't feel the urge to just sit down and chain watch them. It really doesn't feel like a super hero show at all I think is what does it for me. It feels like a crime drama with some references to the MCU because it has to. Even more grounded than the Nolan films. It's not that the acting or writing is bad or anything, it's just not my cup of tea.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Curious to how they'll handle Wally. I don't ever recall Joe mentioning he has another son or daughter so I'm guessing the nephew aspect will be ditched. Wonder if it will be a Kid Flash as well or if we're getting adult Wally. My guess is most of this season is going to be parallel universe shenanigans and we'll get Jay and Wally at the very least, and maybe Bart.

He'll probably be Joe's nephew instead of Iris'.

 

[Wiktor]

Taking cues from movies/shows can go horribly wrong

Yeah. Some elements can be adapted back to comics, but they are better off when they are significantly changed.

Who would want repeat of tv shows anyway? Same with direct adaptations of comics into TV shows. It's just boring to go through the same story twice.

 

[ReiGun]

Taking cues from movies/shows can go horribly wrong

The Green Arrow comic fell the fuck off when it became like the show. Thankfully, DC realized their mistake and the current writer is trying to pick up where Lemire left off.

In the case of the Flash though, in hindsight I do wish Iris and Joe existed in the comics as they do in the show. That is, bringing that black excellence to every issue.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Lexi Alexander, director of Punisher: War Zone, to direct Arrow episode(s?) next season:

http://www.newsarama.com/24744-punisher-war-zone-director-hired-to-direct-arrow-episode.html

NEat.

 

[Wiktor]

The Green Arrow comic fell the fuck off when it became like the show. Thankfully, DC realized their mistake and the current writer is trying to pick up where Lemire left off.

He does. It feels like a sequel to Lemire run, but at the same time it's quite different (more grounded, more street leval, more political and it's atmosphere is close to horror). I hope this team will stick for many years with GA, because that #41 issue was just plain awesome.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Agreed. He's really good in this show.

He has the most genuine laughter ever. So genuine, that he's not even laughing according to the script, he's laughing AT the script. "Barry then vibrates his vocal cords at super speed, distorting his voice. Joe laughs*

"The fuck"-Jesse L Martin

 

[mrklaw]

Just finished watching the flash - what a great show. The whole family enjoyed it, and we're still trying to unravel the timey wimey stuff (which is obviously impossible to do so we really should stop before we get a headache). Fantastic denouement too, and my daughter actually suggested it as soon as we heard Wells's real name.

There were a few annoyances, but overall they are easily forgiven. But I'll list them anyway
- Barry always turning up and talking to the bad guy. Just disarm them before they even get a chance to react to you (yes I realise this would make the series a bit short)
- Snart is a great character, but they're just guys with guns. How are they managing to hit Barry? Again and again. Just grab their damn guns.
- iris was bloody annoying with the whole 'Eddie why you keep secrets waah'. She's a reporter, he's a policeman. Conflict of interest riht there, just say confidential police stuff that I'm stressed about, shut the hell up.


In the finale, I did wonder why Barry couldnt bring his mum back through the wormhole. In the past she would have disappeared and probably left blood on the scene so it is likely that she would still be considered dead, and things would have played out the same.

Also, what was that flash helmet that came through the wormhole? Wells clearly didn't like it. Seemed insane to let him go back anyway - he was still a murderer and evil dude. He'd still be fucking people up in the future.

 

[mrklaw]

It's not an objectively good decision by any stretch, though. The original timeline (where Barry's mom lives) is already impossible to achieve because Barry going back to stop Past Eobard creates a whole new timeline. That was pointed out. The whole thing was a pipe dream, and it ended up playing out in a terrible way (reality ending black hole)

Why didn't he go back in time to the day before and get his family out of the house to a safe location? Then future Barry/Wells would have the fight over nothing, and Wells would still run out of energy and get trapped.

 

[Discotheque]

I never watched the movie, but I've heard at the very least it has solid action sequences, so that much I can expect.

I felt that the fights in Arrow this past season got a little repetitive near the end. A lot of circle pans. Not a bad thing, they just felt very...same-y. I feel like my criticism isn't valid because I can't explain it properly, but just something about the way they were shot and constructed felt very repetitive.

arrow action scenes peaked in season 1. 2 was a big stepdown and it hasn't recovered since imo.

like they even had that amazing sequence in season 1 where oliver did a raid homage when he went in to save walter.

hoping lexi alexander switches some things up. she deserves a better career, a shame she's gotten nowhere after green street and punisher

 

[DoctorFling]

Well me and my friend finished season 3 of Arrow the last day and I'm pretty certain that I won't be watching season 4. Flash on the other hand is really enjoyable, actually preferred it to Daredevil overall. Constantine was ok too.

 

[jon bones]

Just finished watching the flash - what a great show. The whole family enjoyed it, and we're still trying to unravel the timey wimey stuff (which is obviously impossible to do so we really should stop before we get a headache). Fantastic denouement too, and my daughter actually suggested it as soon as we heard Wells's real name.

There were a few annoyances, but overall they are easily forgiven. But I'll list them anyway
- Barry always turning up and talking to the bad guy. Just disarm them before they even get a chance to react to you (yes I realise this would make the series a bit short)
- Snart is a great character, but they're just guys with guns. How are they managing to hit Barry? Again and again. Just grab their damn guns.
- iris was bloody annoying with the whole 'Eddie why you keep secrets waah'. She's a reporter, he's a policeman. Conflict of interest riht there, just say confidential police stuff that I'm stressed about, shut the hell up.


In the finale, I did wonder why Barry couldnt bring his mum back through the wormhole. In the past she would have disappeared and probably left blood on the scene so it is likely that she would still be considered dead, and things would have played out the same.

Also, what was that flash helmet that came through the wormhole? Wells clearly didn't like it. Seemed insane to let him go back anyway - he was still a murderer and evil dude. He'd still be fucking people up in the future.

the helmet belongs to OG Flash Jay Garrick

shit is nuts

 

[BKatastrophe]

In the finale, I did wonder why Barry couldnt bring his mum back through the wormhole. In the past she would have disappeared and probably left blood on the scene so it is likely that she would still be considered dead, and things would have played out the same.

Nope. His mom being gone is different from her being dead. It changes things. How much is pretty much the debate of the whole episode. Even if, let's say, it doesn't change the actual timeline, and Barry's mom is just in the present time, what would happen? Barry's mom's skeleton in the ground and also still alive?

Like, what the fuck do you do then? Bringing her back would have been a terrible idea.

 

[Dalek]

He does. It feels like a sequel to Lemire run, but at the same time it's quite different (more grounded, more street leval, more political and it's atmosphere is close to horror). I hope this team will stick for many years with GA, because that #41 issue was just plain awesome.

YES! Green Arrow 41 was awesome!

 

[Poodlestrike]

I actually just read the Lemire run.

Should be called the Serrentino run, IMO. Lemire's writing was decent/good, but holy crap that art. Having Emiko crop up on the show would be pretty legit, but we already have one half sibling sister kinda archer running around, and maybe inviting more "lol he's just batman" comments wouldn't bet the best idea.

 

[ReiGun]

Lemire's run was a case of the art elevating the book. The story was just alright, but coupled with Sorrentino's art...

If Emiko showed up, she'd new a slightly changed origin. Namely cause this show killed her mom. I don't think they'll use her though.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Lemire's run was a case of the art elevating the book. The story was just alright, but coupled with Sorrentino's art...

If Emiko showed up, she'd new a slightly changed origin. Namely cause this show killed her mom. I don't think they'll use her though.

Well, I mean, Shado on the show doesn't really have much resemblance to Shadow in The Outsider War outside of the name. Producing a character who resembles the comic character with a new moniker isn't so much of a stretch, IMO.

...

Unless they use Shado's twin for that and make Emiko his daughter. That'd be...

Something.

 

[ReiGun]

They could make Emiko's mom Lady Shiva. Or China White for maximum lolz.

 

[Poodlestrike]

They could make Emiko's mom Lady Shiva. Or China White for maximum lolz.

Lady Shiva would so wreck every character shown so far.

Would watch fo sho.

 

[ReiGun]

Lady Shiva would so wreck every character shown so far.

Would watch fo sho.

Yup. I need Richard Dragon on this show too. And the Longbow Hunters.

Of course, they'd become a jobbers in this universe. But that first time when they wreck Oliver's shit would be glorious.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Yup. I need Richard Dragon on this show too. And the Longbow Hunters.

Of course, they'd become a jobbers in this universe. But that first time when they wreck Oliver's shit would be glorious.

Have you ever watched Leverage? There was this one... call him a recurring antagonist, Sterling. Apparently, in the writing room, they had a rule: Sterling never loses. That's not to say protagonists can't win, but they can only do so if they make sure Sterling wins along the way; he's just too good for them to beat outright.

They need a character like that on Arrow, IMO. Shiva's as good a pick as any.

 

[Ahasverus]

Nope. His mom being gone is different from her being dead. It changes things. How much is pretty much the debate of the whole episode. Even if, let's say, it doesn't change the actual timeline, and Barry's mom is just in the present time, what would happen? Barry's mom's skeleton in the ground and also still alive?

Like, what the fuck do you do then? Bringing her back would have been a terrible idea.

I wonder if their implication was that flashpoint aready happened and that's why future flash didn't let him. I'm still confused as to why with reverse flash unexistant Barry's mother is not alive but ok.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I wonder if their implication was that flashpoint aready happened and that's why future flash didn't let him. I'm still confused as to why with reverse flash unexistant Barry's mother is not alive but ok.

Because the universe started collapsing in on itself when Reverse Flash crumbled out of existence. Maybe she's alive again, but got sucked into the hole in the sky.

 

[BKatastrophe]

I wonder if their implication was that flashpoint aready happened and that's why future flash didn't let him. I'm still confused as to why with reverse flash unexistant Barry's mother is not alive but ok.

Other Barry didn't let him because he knew bad shit would happen. He's Barry from the future. He knows some shit.

I don't understand what you're trying to say with the bolded though.

 

[Wiktor]

Yup. I need Richard Dragon on this show too. And the Longbow Hunters.

Of course, they'd become a jobbers in this universe. But that first time when they wreck Oliver's shit would be glorious.

Lol..Olie killed Richard Dragon in a damn pilot