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DC's Legends Of Tomorrow |OT| Macho Man Vandal Savage - Thursdays 8/7c

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Z

ZeroX03

Banned
Okay so other than little Diggle Arrow which I really enjoyed, it was certainly one of Legends' weaker episodes. I agree with BrokenFiction than a two parter would have really helped. They rushed a bunch of stuff in the episode, partially to account for Stephen Amell's very packed schedule I would assume. Legends works well when they can explore the time period a little bit and expand on the story, especially with a packed cast. They just kind of blew past it all, especially where in the past we have historical context for world building here we have... well Arrow I guess? Still calling the episode a win though.

I've never thought old age makeup looked good so I'm fine with him just looking like Oliver with grey hair dye.
 
T

TheCowboyPoet

Member
Personally, I feel that was Legends best episode yet, but maybe that's because I'm a big fan of Arrow. Though I could have done without the Jax/Ray subplot, which would have cleared Ray to get involved in the Star City stuff a little more, since he also has a connection with the city and with Oliver.
I also would really enjoy season 6 of Arrow doing flashforwards like this, similar to how Fringe had a season set in the future based off an episode from a previous season that took place in the future.
Here's hoping Legends does some more expanding to the Arrowverse mythology like it did tonight.
 
W

WrenchNinja

Member
What was the point in calling him Connor? It's like he doesn't even give an explanation for why he wants to be called that. I mean I know the real reason is because "hey comic book reference!"
 
W

WrenchNinja

Member
BronsonLee said:
HOW HE GONNA SHOOT A BOW WITH ONE ARM, DUMBASS
Click to expand...
Like this

Y1XMhMY.jpg
Click to expand...
 
S

Skux

Member
As a standalone Arrow episode, and almost a filler Legends episode, it was pretty good.

With Legends being 16 episodes you're going to get these kind of one-offs that explore the DCTV universe without moving the main Savage plot forward. What the writers need to do is find a way to integrate the two so it doesn't feel like you're getting one or the other each week.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
WrenchNinja said:
What was the point in calling him Connor? It's like he doesn't even give an explanation for why he wants to be called that. I mean I know the real reason is because "hey comic book reference!"
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An explanation would have been nice.

Could've just named him Connor Diggle and kept the Diggle part of the name secret until the episode aired.
 
F

foxtrot3d

Banned
Well, that was a pretty shit episode and LOL at Future Oliver. Sheesh, I get that you can't make too many changes to his appearance since he's gotta shoot Arrow at the same time, thus you can't make him bald, but could you at least give him like a wig of really long, unkempt hair? Why is Future Oliver sporing the same young guy haircut that present-day Oliver has with some spray canned grey paint on top? Also, why does he act basically the same as present day Oliver? I would have liked a two-part episode and for Oliver to act like Batman Beyond Bruce Wayne, an old grumpy ass hole who can barely still fight but acts as a good mentor for the new blood.

At the end of this episode a old man with one arm beat the shit out of young super soldier who already beat him before. Shouldn't Conner really be the one to whoop his ass?
 
S

Skux

Member
BrokenFiction said:
Well, out of all the episodes so far, this had the biggest missteps. I wasn't invested in how messed up Star City was, or how desperate Connor Hawke was, or how despondent Oliver was. This really needed to be a two parter, and realize that there were more interesting stories that needed to be told. Heck even Heatwave had an interesting story that needed to be fleshed out.
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The thing is, as soon as you tell the audience that "this timeline doesn't matter", they lose investment in it. There's no way you'd be able to tell a two-part story and have people care about it when they know that it's not part of the main timeline and these characters will cease to exist after the Legends presumably defeat Savage by the end of the season.

They were right to keep it as a single episode and make it a fun one for Arrow fans.
 
V

Volimar

Member
"You're not just heroes, you're legends."

"Well actually I picked you because you don't have any measurable influence on the timeline."

"Well actually if you had been there you could have stopped it from happening."

Also, way to throw shade at Firestorm. "If only you and Ray had been there." Dude.
 
B

BrokenFiction

Member
Skux said:
The thing is, as soon as you tell the audience that "this timeline doesn't matter", they lose investment in it. There's no way you'd be able to tell a two-part story and have people care about it when they know that it's not part of the main timeline and these characters will cease to exist after the Legends presumably defeat Savage by the end of the season.

They were right to keep it as a single episode and make it a fun one for Arrow fans.
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Dammit, I can't find it now, but one of the people running the show said this isn't the last we've seen of old Ollie and Dig Jr. So while I agree with what you're saying, I'm glad they aren't just doing a one off episode in Star City 2046.
 
F

foxtrot3d

Banned
Volimar said:
"You're not just heroes, you're legends."

"Well actually I picked you because you don't have any measurable influence on the timeline."

"Well actually if you had been there you could have stopped it from happening."

Also, way to throw shade at Firestorm. "If only you and Ray had been there." Dude.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing.

"You are completely irrelevant to the timeline."

"Had you been here you could have changed things."

...?
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
Skux said:
The thing is, as soon as you tell the audience that "this timeline doesn't matter", they lose investment in it. There's no way you'd be able to tell a two-part story and have people care about it when they know that it's not part of the main timeline and these characters will cease to exist after the Legends presumably defeat Savage by the end of the season.

They were right to keep it as a single episode and make it a fun one for Arrow fans.
Click to expand...

I don't think they lose investment in Diggle's family or Oliver though. Even if the world is temporary we're still getting insight into Arrow characters, and Sara (and probably Ray if he explored some). I mean do we care about any of the characters from Cold War Russia? Not really, we aren't invested in a time period that's been and gone, it's about what it does for our heroes. Even just experiencing a war zone, a result of a Savage future, is something that half the cast didn't really dip into because they were on the ship.

BrokenFiction said:
Dammit, I can't find it now, but one of the people running the show said this isn't the last we've seen of old Ollie and Dig Jr. So while I agree with what you're saying, I'm glad they aren't just doing a one off episode in Star City 2046.
Click to expand...

And if this is true, cool.
 
F

fallengorn

Bitches love smiley faces
foxtrot3d said:
Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing.

"You are completely irrelevant to the timeline."

"Had you been here you could have changed things."

...?
Click to expand...

To be fair, every year there's a city-wide threat. Maybe Star City turning into a crap hole is its destiny.
 
C

Calm waterfall

Banned
Heatwave killed it this episode. Captain buzzkill stopped Heatwave from staying in this world. Not sure if i want to be glad that Heatwave is staying with the team, or disappointed that Heatwave did not get to stay in his perfect world.
Dig Jr. is the new arrow. Not surprising, although i don´t understand why he wants to be called Connor Hawk. Sarah is cool, and her coat is great. She should always wear it.
 
C

carlsojo

Member
Season 2 absolutely has to have an "Uprising" episode. There's so much more story to mine there with Connor and Wilson Jr.

Heatwave was S-tier this episode. He swings back and forth from scary to empathetic and it's fantastic because he sells it all so well.
 
M

Mariolee

Member
I wanted to like it, but seeing the strained budget in using only one corner of the city, and some of the dialogue was just...eh. i loved the concept but the execution left a bit to be desired.

Next week looks hype though. Love me some space horror. Also it's insane how Heatwave has become one of the more interesting developing story arcs.

Also, is it just me but is it that between Supergirl, Legends, and Flash (I don't watch Arrow) that Flash is the only one with somewhat convincing dialogue?
 
J

Joni

Member
That was a good episode. Grant Wilson and John Diggle Jr are good follow-ups to their family, although I would have liked seeing Slade Wilson again. Old Wilson versus Old Queen would have been more awesome.
Ray Palmer didn't have a fuck-up this episode, although he did get a loss. He would be better at handling it than Jax though, probably why he did it. Glad they took the romance off the table here.
HeatWave and Captain Cold getting development. It looks like Captain is on the way to really become Citizen Cold, going hero. I wonder what that means for a potential Rogues episode.
 
D

DieH@rd

Banned
Good episode. It had few very satisfying moments.

I liked the scene when Arrow music was on, and when Connor said "Copy that". :D
 
C

carlsojo

Member
The shot of Connor and Oliver rebuilding/cleaning up the Arrow cave reminded me of the ending scene of the Dark Knight Returns.

Good shit all around.
 
C

Carbonox

Member
Grant Wilson was pure potato-tier. Least intimidating actor they could have picked.

Action was straight from the school of Arrow's Z tier choreography as well. Was a Green Arrow focused ep after all though I guess. Got to keep things consistent.

Didn't enjoy that episode in the way I thought I would.
 
D

DeathyBoy

Banned
foxtrot3d said:
Well, that was a pretty shit episode and LOL at Future Oliver. Sheesh, I get that you can't make too many changes to his appearance since he's gotta shoot Arrow at the same time, thus you can't make him bald, but could you at least give him like a wig of really long, unkempt hair? Why is Future Oliver sporing the same young guy haircut that present-day Oliver has with some spray canned grey paint on top? Also, why does he act basically the same as present day Oliver? I would have liked a two-part episode and for Oliver to act like Batman Beyond Bruce Wayne, an old grumpy ass hole who can barely still fight but acts as a good mentor for the new blood.

At the end of this episode a old man with one arm beat the shit out of young super soldier who already beat him before. Shouldn't Conner really be the one to whoop his ass?
Click to expand...

He does those things because they like Amell, and don't want to ask even more of him given he's sacrificing time with his family and his little time off to work on this show. The dude hates the wigs they give him by all accounts, so the team probably figured a silly, minor detail wasn't needed.

Acting wise, even if they had wanted to go that route it's asking a lot of Amell to do any of that given he's still got to focus primarily on his own TV show.

I'm aware everything I just listed is practical rather than creative driven, but getting this sort of episode at all is a ridiculous accomplishment.
 
Z

ZeroX03

Banned
Old age makeup never works, just suspend that disbelief and make the mornings easier for the makeup artist.

And yeah Amell would've only had two days to shoot this episode, it's unfortunate but that's what being a series regular lead means. Flash's production must've been really stressed by losing Gustin for a week.
 
J

Joni

Member
ZeroX03 said:
And yeah Amell would've only had two days to shoot this episode, it's unfortunate but that's what being a series regular lead means. Flash's production must've been really stressed by losing Gustin for a week.
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I wonder if we'll see the impact, maybe an episode with less Barry. On the other hand, CBS and CW have different break schedules so they could match up better.
 
C

CloudWolf

Member
Future Ollie is a real dick.

"This wouldn't have happened if you and Ray were here".

How do you know this Oliver? Connor said Deathstroke Jr. had an army and that you failed to provide an adequate offensive. How the hell would two people have made all the difference? You blame-shifting asshole.
 
J

Joni

Member
Chariot said:
What did Barry do when Star City was under attack? Was Oliver really too proud to call him up?
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The Uprising happened in 2031, The Flash is destined to disappear in 2024. For all we know, that is still the real future that needs to happen.
 
S

shingi70

Banned
Chariot said:
What did Barry do when Star City was under attack? Was Oliver really too proud to call him up?
Click to expand...

Dead even ignoring the whole flash fispearing in red skies thing, Rip showed that Central City was on fire. It's not a strech to imagine that Vandel attacked Star Labs first.
 
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