Well, brace yourself because it's going to happen. There's no way in hell Vince isn't getting Cena over the Flair marker.
The gimmick posting in this thread is starting to get a little out of hand again.
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December Wrasslin' |OT| PUT A Z-PAK ON THE THREAD, PAL. YOU'RE WORKING TONIGHT
Well, brace yourself because it's going to happen. There's no way in hell Vince isn't getting Cena over the Flair marker.
The gimmick posting in this thread is starting to get a little out of hand again.
slightconfuse
Banned
Mr. Luchador
Member
Please expand on this theory.
Liquidsnake
Banned
I don't its like Barry Bonds. Hes not the HR king. He never will be. It just bothers me that a man who wrestled for 40 years, and dominated and worked 3 times in one day.
Had nmore than 5 moves, made eveyone a star deserves to be mentioned as a top three all time, gets his 16 times record pushed to the side by a guy who honestly should be a pre school principal.
Cena's number is a bit inflated anyway since he worked a majority of his career in a promotion that had two world championships.
"Welcome, WWE Universe! We're in the FAST LANE on the ROAD TO WRESTLEMANIA!"
Liquidsnake
Banned
I know, I just get so mad. I was tired of Cena the second night I ever saw him on TV.
I never got tired of seeing Flair, he was so special. So very special. And to think now that the WWE is the only game around, they are going to market Cena as the greatest of all time, when he is only sells T shirts, nothing else. Has nothing to do with ring work.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
So it's about length of reign? Then you're fine, and nobody should care how many times someone won a championship.
I've never really cared how many times someone gained a championship, myself. A 16 time winner means at least a 15 time loser.
I've never really cared how many times someone gained a championship, myself. A 16 time winner means at least a 15 time loser.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Ric Flair elevated wrestling and the NWA.
John Cena overseen the stagnant malaise of the WWE.
Sunflower to pull out the LOL TROLL card here to save face. You're the worst WrassleGAF poster going. I look forward to bean breath's indie OT threads from now one. That's where the real wrestling discussion takes place!
John Cena overseen the stagnant malaise of the WWE.
Sunflower to pull out the LOL TROLL card here to save face. You're the worst WrassleGAF poster going. I look forward to bean breath's indie OT threads from now one. That's where the real wrestling discussion takes place!
None of Cena's title wins matter. Only a couple of Flair's matter. The only times title wins really matter is when a guy gets the "Thanks for the hard work" reward like Bryan at WM30, Eddie at NWO 2004, Benoit at WM20, Bret's first win, and things of that manner. When it is a reward to both the wrestler and the fans. Flair trading the title back and forth in the 80s didn't mean shit. Cena trading the title back and forth with Edge/Orton doesn't mean shit.
Sting beating Flair for the title for the first time matters. Macho winning the tournament at WM4 matters.
Sting beating Flair for the title for the first time matters. Macho winning the tournament at WM4 matters.
British Monsoon
Member
Being 'The Man' in a company with zero competition for his entire tenure about sums up Cena.
Liquidsnake
Banned
I hope historians recognize one day that Cena was the Champ during the worst time in the sports history, And that he contributed greatly to its demise.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Cena elevated what a wrestler truly is - you CAN be everything. Look, I don't like most of his ring-work, but you can't deny he brought what being a wrestler is to a higher standard. He's almost bulletproof from a media perspective. He's an all-around great guy who does great work. I love Flair plenty, but he's not the same pedigree of a person working to change people and inspire people as Cena is.
Mr. Luchador
Member
I'm pretty sure business was a whole lot worse when Bret/Diesel/HBK were champions during the New Generation era.
WWE actually had some level of competition back then though.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I guess most of you are hung up on the in-ring of these reigns, and I'm looking more big picture on what he's done for culture around wrestling itself. We're just using different measuring sticks, and that's fine. I'd say if you keep it in the ring that no, Cena's nowhere near Flair, but I've been using a much wider lens on Cena's legacy vs Flair's.
Mr. Luchador
Member
WWE have to be grateful for the piles of cash they created during the late 90s and early 00s. That cash reserve and them being the only show in town seem to be the only 'notable' things for them.
I'm pretty sure the average person knows Flair more than Cena.
I 100% understand what Sunny is saying. Ric Flair was a big deal in the 80s when everything was still house shows and local area promos. Cena has been the face of the largest wrestling company of all time, which has been expanding globally for his entire run as top guy. Cena has been in movies, released an album, and everything he's done is taped and easily viewed. John Cena is far bigger of a mainstream star than Ric Flair ever was. It doesn't mean John Cena is better than Flair. At anything. They are products of different eras. People would have said the same thing about Flair in comparison to Gorgeous George in the 80s. Times change. Bruno got swallowed up by Hogan who got swallowed up by Austin who got swallowed up by Cena. That's how it works. Whoever is he biggest star most recently is the biggest star.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Liquidsnake
Banned
Exactly, where was Cena's Steamboat?
Where was Cenas Savage?
Where was Cena's anything?
Nowhere becasue he steamrolled everyone and destroyed careers.
Been on top during a down period for wrestling?
British Monsoon
Member
What HAS he done for wrestling itself? Kept a creatively bankrupt company afloat? Great. Well done, John. Now fuck off. No, actually I'LL fuck off and watch some New Japan.
The culture had to change after Benoit. The tops guys have been doing the same things for years, the WWE just didn't focus on it until Cena.
That's not Fair to Flair though.
Flair would have been 10x as huge as Cena was if Flair had someone like Vince McMahon paying to get Flair into the public eye. An overwhelming amount of the stuff Cena has done outside of wrestling was payed by Vince McMahon.
Mr. Luchador
Member
The irony.
Sunflower. You're not the Captain anymore. You're not even Main Event level. You're basically Michael Cole.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Thats fine, just leave the 16 time thing alone is all I ask.
If you ask a random person on the street if they know John Cena or if they know Ric Flair, I'm pretty positive you're going to get a lot more people who know who John Cena is. People who don't watch wrestling know who Jahn Sina is because he's big block head is everywhere. Movies, commercials, reality shows, K-Mart, Walmart. It's silly to compare the reach of Cena to that of Flair's. Even in his prime, Ric Flair wasn't anywhere NEAR the icon and celebrity that Hogan was.
Probably more like JBL.
Every time I see you post it's to drag down Sunflower. Is this a gimmick? In any case, this is a shoot: stop embarrassing yourself.
All of Bret's world title wins matter. Every single one of his wins were a pivotal moment in the WWF during the 90's. His title win against Flair was the beginning of the end for Rock N Wrestling Era. The title win against Yokozuna ushered in the real beginning of the New Generation. Him beating Diesel at Survivor Series solidified him as the true leader of the New Generation. Finally his victory over the Undertaker at Summerslam was the tipping point for the Attitude Era.
Professor Beef
Banned
And you'd be wrong.
Flair himsef hasn't been fair to Flair for years now.
i wouldn't go that far, Cena's absolutly everywhere, he's got an absurd amount of mainstream appeal, show an average person a picture of Flair and Cena, odds are they'll recognize Cena unless they happened to be wrestling fans back in the day
Understandable since they lost Hogan, Warrior, Savage, etc. Plus the steroid and sex allegations.
Today's problems is because their own foolish ideas, booking, and so forth.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Certainly. And we can't predict how companies and culture will react to atrocities, not even close. But I don't think there is a better ambassador of wrestling to the whole world, the demographics that aren't diehard fans that have splintered broomsticks up their buttholes, than John Cena. He's likable, he's multilingual by choice, not circumstance, he is a class act and all the complaints here revolve around "he was champion when the business was down!" or "he's holding down my favorite rasslers!"
Bigger picture, friends. John Cena is everything, and we're just playing in his sandbox.
Sucha mark. WHAT A MARK. Maybe 4 of Flair's 16 titles mean anything. Maybe. Probably not even that many. His number was just as inflated and nonsense as Cena getting to 16.
They usually ship out next week and make it just in time for Christmas with like maybe 3 days to spare.
Mr. Luchador
Member
and you are?
"Hey random person, here's two pictures of famous people. Do you recognize famous person A who's prime was 25 years ago and is no longer active or Person B who's still active as the face of his company"
Of course people are going to more instantly recognize Cena than Flair.
Of course people are going to more instantly recognize Cena than Flair.
slightconfuse
Banned
Sounds good
real talk, number of title wins means absolutely nothing, at all, ever, the end