videogamer
Banned
Loki said:
Deal with them all the time and you might say otherwise.
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Democratic National Convention tonight...
- Thread starter GodsTyro
- Start date
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Deal with them all the time and you might say otherwise.
Chesapeake Silt
Member
Dude is sweating like a motherfucker.
videogamer
Banned
I want Clinton back so badly.
Kerry did a good job, but I wonder if he was powerful enough to actually make the 10-11% of unsure voters more interested.
His track record in the senate (in terms of being wishy washy) is very evident; notice how he himself and other people never said a damn thing about it. It's kind of important to know how critical he was on issues, but I never really heard any solid examples of anything recent, just the vietnam war which was YEARS ago. Not to mention everyone and their mother spoke out against that war, he was just a voice.
Ah well, the guy still has my vote. I hope the speech was good enough, I didn't hear much complaining on Fox after the speech (there was actually more on CNN) so that's a good sign!
His track record in the senate (in terms of being wishy washy) is very evident; notice how he himself and other people never said a damn thing about it. It's kind of important to know how critical he was on issues, but I never really heard any solid examples of anything recent, just the vietnam war which was YEARS ago. Not to mention everyone and their mother spoke out against that war, he was just a voice.
Ah well, the guy still has my vote. I hope the speech was good enough, I didn't hear much complaining on Fox after the speech (there was actually more on CNN) so that's a good sign!
jinx: Understood, but the media tears that record apart and it makes him look really bad to people who can't have a clear mind and realize that people change their mind over time, because the political climate is always changing too.
As for what else you guys said, I agree, he did come off being a lot stronger than usual. Let's hope his public speaking only gets better from here. But like I said, I just hope he came across to undecided and more moderate people on the right. What do you guys think?
As for what else you guys said, I agree, he did come off being a lot stronger than usual. Let's hope his public speaking only gets better from here. But like I said, I just hope he came across to undecided and more moderate people on the right. What do you guys think?
Bruce Vilanch
Banned
I just bought reportingforduty.net and reportingforduty.org
Kerry was good overall. If I didn't have Obama and Clinton in the back of my head, maybe I'd say great, I dunno.
I thought the strongest line where he said "we won't insist god's on our side, but pray we're on his side" or something.
I really like most of his policy suggstions, but I worry about setting the bar to high. Does he really think he can pass his health care plan, increase special ops, reraise the top tax bracket, limit corporate deductions, create new education credits, R&D spending, cut corporate welfare and millitary fat, and trim the debt? Ambitious even with a cooperative legislature. The best we can hope for in the election is taking the presidency and Senate. Even that's pretty hopeful, and the House seems basically out of the question.
Anyways, I seem to really like Kerry on policy. The repeated talking points are bugging the hell out of me at this point though. Whatever, I guess they have their place. And Kerry managed to keep my attention, which is nice!
I thought the strongest line where he said "we won't insist god's on our side, but pray we're on his side" or something.
I really like most of his policy suggstions, but I worry about setting the bar to high. Does he really think he can pass his health care plan, increase special ops, reraise the top tax bracket, limit corporate deductions, create new education credits, R&D spending, cut corporate welfare and millitary fat, and trim the debt? Ambitious even with a cooperative legislature. The best we can hope for in the election is taking the presidency and Senate. Even that's pretty hopeful, and the House seems basically out of the question.
Anyways, I seem to really like Kerry on policy. The repeated talking points are bugging the hell out of me at this point though. Whatever, I guess they have their place. And Kerry managed to keep my attention, which is nice!
seismologist
Banned
I was listening on the radio so I didn't have to look at him but
I actually shed a tear when he talked about looking the parent in the face before sending their kids to war. Damn and I was going to vote for Bush.
I actually shed a tear when he talked about looking the parent in the face before sending their kids to war. Damn and I was going to vote for Bush.
watch all the speeches at:
www.c-span.org
Clinton's speech was amazing.
Obama's speech wipes the floor. The first Black US president? I think so!
Edwards' speech was excellent.
Wesley Clark had a pretty good speech too.
Kerry was great, much better than i expected.
I wasn't going to vote this november...but they have changed my mind
www.c-span.org
Clinton's speech was amazing.
Obama's speech wipes the floor. The first Black US president? I think so!
Edwards' speech was excellent.
Wesley Clark had a pretty good speech too.
Kerry was great, much better than i expected.
I wasn't going to vote this november...but they have changed my mind
ErasureAcer
Banned
It was a decent speech. Domestically okay. However, what the fuck was that about Republicans in his cabinet?
However, Kerry gets an "F" on foreign policy. He didn't mention anything about Israel and little to nothing on how he can stop people from hating America in the first place. His support for more troops and a bigger pentagon budget is scary, considering we already outspend the rest of the world combined. His continuation of the Iraq war has no end date and has said in the past the troops will remain his entire time in office. Kerry has no plan to win the peace with the people in Iraq or others who dislike America.
In the end...I can't endorse someone who has such a fucked up foreign policy. Support for Israel, Continuation of a non-winnable war that he himself voted for(why is he yelling at bush again for lies about WMD when Kerry himself did nothing to stop him and never asked for proof?).
The best part of the speech was replacing the bush cabinet(rummy, ashcroft, cheney) but what do we get in replace? The aforementioned republicans? "I love the death penalty" John Edwards? Please, Kerry should stop trying to preach that he is going to bring about drastic change because we all know not much, if anything is going to change.
Israel will continue to take over Palestinian lands. Blacks will continue to die on death row and we'll continue to pay hundreds of billions of dollars into a non-winnable war as our education and healthcare go down the tubes.
Looks like I'll be voting for Cobb or Nader(if he makes the debates).
However, Kerry gets an "F" on foreign policy. He didn't mention anything about Israel and little to nothing on how he can stop people from hating America in the first place. His support for more troops and a bigger pentagon budget is scary, considering we already outspend the rest of the world combined. His continuation of the Iraq war has no end date and has said in the past the troops will remain his entire time in office. Kerry has no plan to win the peace with the people in Iraq or others who dislike America.
In the end...I can't endorse someone who has such a fucked up foreign policy. Support for Israel, Continuation of a non-winnable war that he himself voted for(why is he yelling at bush again for lies about WMD when Kerry himself did nothing to stop him and never asked for proof?).
The best part of the speech was replacing the bush cabinet(rummy, ashcroft, cheney) but what do we get in replace? The aforementioned republicans? "I love the death penalty" John Edwards? Please, Kerry should stop trying to preach that he is going to bring about drastic change because we all know not much, if anything is going to change.
Israel will continue to take over Palestinian lands. Blacks will continue to die on death row and we'll continue to pay hundreds of billions of dollars into a non-winnable war as our education and healthcare go down the tubes.
Looks like I'll be voting for Cobb or Nader(if he makes the debates).
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Ahahaha!Bruce Vilanch said:
That gave me a good excuse to see the W. Bush main page. I like the fact that they have a Kerry vs Kerry thing... reminds me a lot of the Governor Bush VS President Bush debate the Daily Show did a year or so ago.
seismologist
Banned
In terms of foreign policy Kerry is much better off than Bush.
After Bush promising that your either "with us or your with the terrosists".
Kerry might be our only chance to gain back some of the respect that we've lost.
After Bush promising that your either "with us or your with the terrosists".
Kerry might be our only chance to gain back some of the respect that we've lost.
ErasureAcer
Banned
No I didn't expect him to say anything about Israel. It would have been nice to hear though...a plan for middle east peace, even if it was saying something that Dean said in the primaries...that he'd ask Bill Clinton to work on the I/P conflict if elected president(Clinton was really close to a peace deal as we all know). It would have worked well in his speech to show that war is not inevitable and that John Kerry above all wants peace but will reserve the right to defend the country. What John Kerry said to me through his lack of words, is that he doesn't give a fuck what Israel does to the Palestinians and their land. Seriously, this is a big issue as it can be placed as the #1 reason for arab anti-american feelings from Egypt to Pakistan. And these feelings are which bring upon terrorists who are willing to strike back at the USA. This could have fit nicely into his speech and with the right words would have not upset the Jewish community and potential voters. It also could have shown that he has a plan to ease American tentions with arab world and not just our "allies." Any smuck can ease tensions with our allies...how bout easing tensions with people who don't like us? That is a true leader.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
seismologist said:
And thats the main reason he has my vote.
The USA could be in bad shape if other countries in the world hate us. Its better to be friends.
He also has a serious point about how making friends helps find terrorists.
Also, if other countries like us, then that means there will likely be less terrorsts out to get us!
Bush's "We are better then you all" is very scarry.
Reminds me of the bullies in highschool. "Either help us dump this fishtank or get the heck outta here"
EDIT:
And to futher explain my point
the bottom line is:
I see Kerry doing a better job with national realtions then the current administration. And in some ways international relations are more important then anything else.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
I must say, I was very impressed with Kerry's speech last night. I followed the primaries very closely and that was by far the best speech I've ever heard him give. He did exactly what he needed to do. He needed to show his personality, and he did. He needed to define himself instead of letting the Republicans continue to do it for him, and he did. He needed to show that he is capable of leading the nation, and he did. He needed to show that he had a plan for the next 4 years, and he did. And he needed to appeal to those undecided voters as well as some consersatives, and he did. Most importantly of all, he had to talk about the part of his record that the republicans don't want you to hear about and that is his service in the Vietnam war, and he did that too. I think it resonated with people when he said that if he ever had to send the nation's sons and daughters to war he would have to be able to look their mothers and fathers in the eye before he could do it. And I feel that people believe that because of his own experience in Vietnam, he does not take military action lightly. I was also so proud of him when he made the comments about wearing your religion on your sleeve and how people shouldn't say that God is on their side but rather we should pray that we are on God's side. I thought he totally owned Bush with that line, personally.
The only slip up I think he made was when he said that he would provide the latest equipment to the troops. Theres nothing wrong with what he said but the republicans are going to ask him that if he felt that way then why did he vote against the 87 billion dollars. The comment could come back and bite him but if he stays on message he will be alright.
You know, up until last night I was mainly voting against Bush. But after this convention I think I am now voting FOR Kerry. He really instilled a lot of confidence in me last night. Yes, it was just a political speech, but I can tell when someone is just saying something to pull my chain. I believe that much of what Kerry had to say last night came from the heart.
The only slip up I think he made was when he said that he would provide the latest equipment to the troops. Theres nothing wrong with what he said but the republicans are going to ask him that if he felt that way then why did he vote against the 87 billion dollars. The comment could come back and bite him but if he stays on message he will be alright.
You know, up until last night I was mainly voting against Bush. But after this convention I think I am now voting FOR Kerry. He really instilled a lot of confidence in me last night. Yes, it was just a political speech, but I can tell when someone is just saying something to pull my chain. I believe that much of what Kerry had to say last night came from the heart.
Wow, Fox News is still going easy on Kerry. They must all be sick.
In other news, Tom Ridge says "I quit." This is going to hurt the Bush administration even more. $100 says a year from now he will exploit all the things they messed up, like so many other people have.
http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/st...ff/story/0001/20040730/0510205118.htm&sc=1152
In other news, Tom Ridge says "I quit." This is going to hurt the Bush administration even more. $100 says a year from now he will exploit all the things they messed up, like so many other people have.
http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/st...ff/story/0001/20040730/0510205118.htm&sc=1152
Yeah, you'd think the poor guy would have made enough money for that, considering what his job is. Sounds like Bush used him as a puppet to educate people about silly color-coded warnings and flawed intelligence that don't mean a darn thing.
Honestly, what else have we learned from homeland security beyond "We don't know where. We don't know when. But something awful is going to happen. But go outside and buy thin-- I mean, live life to the fullest anyway! Thank you, no further questions!"
I mean now they are warning that we might have an attack in the next few months. They ALWAYS do that. I know we are gonna be attacked again someday, everyone does, there's nothing we can do. Reminding people and scaring them does not help, only hurt, the situation. Unless the intelligence is actually detailed beyond what I typed above, which I haven't seen yet. The "blanket alert" that did nothing but boost profits of hardware stores across the nation does not count. :lol
Honestly, what else have we learned from homeland security beyond "We don't know where. We don't know when. But something awful is going to happen. But go outside and buy thin-- I mean, live life to the fullest anyway! Thank you, no further questions!"
I mean now they are warning that we might have an attack in the next few months. They ALWAYS do that. I know we are gonna be attacked again someday, everyone does, there's nothing we can do. Reminding people and scaring them does not help, only hurt, the situation. Unless the intelligence is actually detailed beyond what I typed above, which I haven't seen yet. The "blanket alert" that did nothing but boost profits of hardware stores across the nation does not count. :lol
Lucky Forward
Member
I thought Kerry gave a very good delivery of what was just an okay speech, although he kept making the mistake of walking on his applause, and sometimes seemed in a hurry to fit everything in. At the end I realized he definitely wanted to wrap it up before 11:00 to stay in primetime.
He really overdid the Vietnam thing, though. Reporting for duty I defended my country me and my Band of Brothers and did I mention I was in Vietnam where I reported for duty to defend my country with my Band of Brothers? Ive read a lot of military books, and one common thread among heroes (who served a lot longer than Kerry did) is they rarely talk about their war experiences and never puff themselves up with it. If ones war record needs to be brought up, a politician should at least let someone else do it for him.
I never thought Id hear Van Halen played at the close of a national political convention, even if it was Sammy Hagar Van Halen. Maybe Bush should close with some classic David Lee Roth. You know give the people a clear choice.
He really overdid the Vietnam thing, though. Reporting for duty I defended my country me and my Band of Brothers and did I mention I was in Vietnam where I reported for duty to defend my country with my Band of Brothers? Ive read a lot of military books, and one common thread among heroes (who served a lot longer than Kerry did) is they rarely talk about their war experiences and never puff themselves up with it. If ones war record needs to be brought up, a politician should at least let someone else do it for him.
I never thought Id hear Van Halen played at the close of a national political convention, even if it was Sammy Hagar Van Halen. Maybe Bush should close with some classic David Lee Roth. You know give the people a clear choice.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Diablos said:
They played U2 first and then followed it up with Van Halen's "Dreams".
seismologist
Banned
yeah JC you said it. I agree with you 100%. Only before this speech I was voting for Bush, but now Kerry has really impressed me.
Oh and about Isreal, I agree that it's important but it's not the #1 issue right now. In fact it's not even #2.
The big issues are the economy and getting our butts out of Iraq. In addition to getting the rest of world back on our side. He talked about all of these in the speech last night.
Oh and about Isreal, I agree that it's important but it's not the #1 issue right now. In fact it's not even #2.
The big issues are the economy and getting our butts out of Iraq. In addition to getting the rest of world back on our side. He talked about all of these in the speech last night.
Contrary to what the spinpoint would have you believe, there are different ways to send 87 billion to troops in Iraq... such as where the money is going to come from. Not only did Kerry support a different funding plan, Bush had threatened to VETO a measure he didn't like. It's very much like saying "if you oppose the patriot act, you're supporting terrorism"... when anyone with a brain knows that the patriot act is more than its one-line summary.
That's why I called the whole thing "stupid" earlier.
ConfusingJazz
Member
Does anybody have the estimate of protesters that were supposed to be in Boston, as compared to the ones that will be for New York? The protests seemed to be pretty weak this week (hey, that was pretty cool, weak, week...nvm). And what are the odds that a riot will break out in NYC, anybody wanna start making up odds on that?
What a dog and pony show those four days were.
God help America if the majority of citizens bought that load of BS Kerry tried to push last night.
If he really believed what he said last night his voting record would reflect it.
Newsflash: The mere fact that you served in Vietnam doesn't mean you should be President.
That intro video was well done but did you notice it spent maybe 30 seconds talking about his 19 years in the senate and 8 1/2 minutes on everything else.
God help America if the majority of citizens bought that load of BS Kerry tried to push last night.
If he really believed what he said last night his voting record would reflect it.
Newsflash: The mere fact that you served in Vietnam doesn't mean you should be President.
That intro video was well done but did you notice it spent maybe 30 seconds talking about his 19 years in the senate and 8 1/2 minutes on everything else.
ConfusingJazz
Member
MSW said:
Newsflash: Just because your daddy was president doesn't mean you should be president.
Both of these Newsflash things aren't convincing arguments, and believe or not, he is trying to sell image. Unfortunatly, thats one of the major factors nowdays in elections.
That might have worked in the 2000 election seeing as GWB had nothing to run on but it doesnt wash this election. Bush is going to run on his record over the past 4 years unlike Kerry.
I understand selling image but shouldnt it be an image of who you are and what youve done. Kerry is a war hero and everyone commends him for his service but he did jack shit in the senate for the past 19 years. I think it is a valid point that cant be concealed with imagery and rhetoric.
MSW said:
Man, take off the Little Mr. Conservative Goggles, buddy. If you think that Bush's record the past four years is a strong point, you are on fucking crack. Put it this way, imagine all the shit that has happened the past four years happened under Democratic President- huge terrorist attack, billions and billions being spent on war which President goaded us into b/c he was allegedly "misinformed," economy in the absolute shitter, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Jesus Christ, you would probably be making a post every minute about how terrible the President is.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
MSW said:
Boy, this post is so full of little hypocrasies that I lost count. So it was okay for Bush to run on nothing in 2000 but its not okay for Kerry to do the same thing in 2004 (even though he's not doing that)? Please.
And lets talk about what each of them has done what with their lives. Both men came from afluent families. Bush spent most of his life as a drunk rich boy. Kerry has spent most of his life serving the country. Bush entered the national guard to dodge the draft. Kerry volunteered to go to Vietnam. Bush spent the past 3 years pissing off our allies. Kerry spent much of the late 80's and early 90's working with other Vietnam vets in congress trying to ease tensions with the Vietnamese government so that we could locate and return our POWs. Bush wants to limit the number of stem cell lines to please a bunch of totally right wing nut jobs. Kerry wants to increase the number of cell lines that are readily available so that more people, some of whom might discover a cure for a disease or two, have access to them.
Bush is running on his 4 years of service because that's really all he has to run on. And to be quite honest, these were the shittiest 4 years I've ever seen. Bush's record flat out sucks. He got us involved in a war that we did not have to fight. He turned a record surplus into a record deficit. Millions of americans have lost their jobs under his watch. He is the first president in decades to end a term with fewer jobs than when he started it. His foreign policy has damaged America's reputation in the world. And on, and on, and on.
Kerry is running on a lifetime of service to the country. And to say that Kerry spent 19 years in the senate doing "jack shit" just shows how completely ignorant you are about his record. Either that, or you are only interested in what the republican party wants to tell you about it.
Newsweek just had a good article about some of what Kerry has done in the Senate. One of the things I thought was interesting was how he dove into a subject like flood insurance, even though it was boring, just because he thought it was in need of reform. Or how he didn't put his name on many bills because he didn't think it was that important.
Anyways, past the heavily spun stuff (John Kerry is seeking to legalize infanticide, outlaw the millitary, and raise taxes to 200% of income!) the strongest trends seem to be environmental support and broad deficit reduction efforts...
Anyways, past the heavily spun stuff (John Kerry is seeking to legalize infanticide, outlaw the millitary, and raise taxes to 200% of income!) the strongest trends seem to be environmental support and broad deficit reduction efforts...
Father_Brain
Banned
I have two questions for Hitokage and ErasureAcer: What do you think US policy toward Israel should be? What would you want to see happen in Israel?
Well, I wasn't offering my own position on the matter, just saying why Kerry's not about to either. The problem with Israel is that if you publicly say they are indeed overstepping their bounds and need to be kept in check, you instantly make lots of enemies and open yourself to charges of not only antisemitism, but also supporting terrorists or "giving in" to terrorists... as baseless as they may actually be. It's just far more trouble than its worth to bring it up during a campaign.Father_Brain said:
Father_Brain
Banned
Maybe I should ask it more directly: What is your opinion on the horrific Palestinian record on human rights (including treatment of dissidents and religious minorities), women's rights (including honor killings), and gay rights, relative to Israel's?
Edit: I am not implying that Israel has never crossed the line, or that the above statement justifies anything Israel does.
Edit: I am not implying that Israel has never crossed the line, or that the above statement justifies anything Israel does.
The only goggles I have on are truth goggles 'buddy.' You missed my point completely. I couldnt care less if you feel Bushs record is crap. Fact being, at least he is going to run on it and let the American people decided as opposed to pretending he doesnt have a record like Kerry is attempting to pull off.
He was Governor of the 3rd largest state in the union. He also had experience as an executive unlike a certain Massachusetts senator. Bush also didn't have a record of changing his mind on important issues every few years
Wow! What a spot on analysis.
Where to start?
I know how Bush haters love to point out how Bush had an alcohol problem like it somehow is relevant in this years election but each time you do you look more and more desperate. For the record Kerry didnt spend most of the 80s and 90s working on strengthening our relationship with Vietnam.
As for stem cell research, again you show your true ignorance. There is research going on all over the country as we speak. You do know it is legal just not funded by the Federal government. The particular research you speak of is embryonic stem cell research, which has yielded no significant results yet. So you disagree the federal government should create embryos for the sole purpose of being destroyed. Big deal. Its not like Bush wrote an executive order banning the research entirely. He just feels the federal government has no business funding such controversial work.
Now on to Bushs shitty last four years. First as I said earlier, it doesnt matter that you feel it was bad but the fact that he is going to run on it and let the people decided. John Kerry is running away from his as evidence in that dishonest speech last night. But I'll pick apart you criticisms one by one, shall we?
Granted Iraq did not have nukes pointing at us but after Sept. 11 dangerous nations must be dealt with before they become too powerful. You have a dictator that sponsored terrorism by giving $25,000 dollars to families of suicide bombers and who also gave medical attention and shelter to Zarqouwi(sp) after he got injured in Afghanistan fighting our troops. You also have the CIA, French, British and Russian intelligence agencies all agreeing he has WMDs. Now you might disagree about the war but dont act like it was a war that was unnecessary. Not to mention the noble act of freeing 25 million people and hopefully changing the face of the Middle East forever.
Now if you think the President has much to do with the economy then you really dont know much about economics. In reality the President can do little to help the economy. The only thing the President can do, and even this doesnt help very much, is infuse more capital into the economy thus, attempting to grow it. Bush did just that and look at the economy, its growing. I also love how you conveniently omit the devastation 9/11 had on the economy and the fact that it already had 2 quarters of negative growth before he took office. I guess in JC world everything is Bushs fault.
It is actually not millions, more like a million and a half. If you havent noticed we created 1.5 million jobs over the past year. And again you ignore the great hurdles this economy has had over the past 4 years. To be where it is at right now is really quite amazing.
Oh, Im sure many Americans are losing sleep over this every night. The same thing happened in the 80s when Reagan was confronting Communism. Once Iraq is free and peaceful in 10 years the world will be just fine with the USA. They disagreed with how we handled Iraq. They will get over it.
Youre right. I misspoke. Kerry didnt spend his last 19 years doing nothing. He was very busy trying to gut our military and pushing partial birth abortion through. Fact is, he did very little over the 19 years he spent in the senate and what he did do he doesnt seem to want to talk about.
I wonder why?
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