Well his son just recently died and he said he still isn't over the grieving process.
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Democratic National Primary Debate #1 |Tokyo2016| Rise of Mecha-Godzilla
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I think people underrate how much Webb and Chafee might bring to the discussion on national security, something Hillary and Bernie aren't really focused on at all.
I'd also say that Bernie is basically coming into this debate with the challenger advantage you usually see in the first debate against an incumbent president. Hillary has the aura of being presidential just by being a part of leadership for so long, but there's something about being put on the same stage right next to that person as a legitimize challenger which levels that perception out.
Hillary is a very competent debater though, so Bernie doesn't have room to slouch.
I'd also say that Bernie is basically coming into this debate with the challenger advantage you usually see in the first debate against an incumbent president. Hillary has the aura of being presidential just by being a part of leadership for so long, but there's something about being put on the same stage right next to that person as a legitimize challenger which levels that perception out.
Hillary is a very competent debater though, so Bernie doesn't have room to slouch.
I can't imagine going from grieving over a lost son to starting a major campaign for the presidency.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Is Hillary for Universal, single payer healthcare?
Humor me, how would such a policy get passed in a Republican congress when the more moderate Obamacare was barely able to pass in a Democratic one?
One candidate could be for giving everyone a billion dollars, but it would be silly to use that a voting criteria because it is not something that can happen.
Republicans control most of government. Most governors are republican, most senators, and most congressmen. You can't work around them. Even when Democrats held control of Congress there were enough moderate Democrats to make Obamacare something that only passed by the skin of its teeth, Obamacare was nearly too liberal to pass that non-Republican winning congress.
Full on single payer? That is 100% off the table. No question.
Any candidate can make dream world like empty promises, but you shouldn't base your vote on such.
This. Of course, adhering strictly to Marquess of Queensberry rules, Bernie should use this national spotlight to starkly highlight the real differences between their policies, hopefully yielding soundbites that the media simply cannot ignore. He will not waste a moment on Benghazi or email server's, as he has real issues to debate, that anyone outside of the GOP and Fox News, actually care about.
If, instead, he just repeats his policy positions, without adeptly contrasting them with Hillary's, he may well put the audience to sleep and will have wasted the potential of a good deal of free press, that he possibly cannot afford to squander.
Despite the OP's uncharacteristic GIF
, I think Anderson is potentially the perfect host for the Democratic debate and hopefully he will inject just the right amount of good natured energy into the proceedings .Daniel B·;181522614 said:This. Of course, adhering strictly to Marquess of Queensberry rules, Bernie should use this national spotlight to starkly highlight the real differences between their policies, hopefully yielding soundbites that the media simply cannot ignore. He will not waste a moment on Benghazi or email server's, as he has real issues to debate, that anyone outside of the GOP and Fox News, actually care about.
If, instead, he just repeats his policy positions, without adeptly contrasting them with Hillary's, he may well put the audience to sleep and will have wasted the potential of a good deal of free press, that he possibly cannot afford to squander.
Despite the OP's uncharacteristic GIF
He is not going to go after Hillary or attack her. Democratic Party is going to have a unified front unlike the GOP this go round.
But these initiatives are important. Medicare for all would save us trillions. Tuition free schooling would save us a lot as well.Reformation of the tax code for all entities, infrastructure spending and Wall Street regulation initiatives as well.
If the major argument against Bernie's proposals is "they would not get passed cause GOP!" Then there's literally no difference between what people claim Clinton would do, because the GOP is also there in her way as well, if your one who believes she's a person who is legitimate.
There's literally nothing a president could do for liberal or socialist initiatives in our current environment.
So is your argument by definition to vote for Clinton because she would attempt to pass legislation that is pro corporation just to pass something? That's what Obama did with a majority of his tenure, the private industry is fully accommodated by his plans including TPP and even now they are not satisfied with what they get. So why exactly are we trying to compromise in a no win situation?
The better thing to do is to is educate people on the actual issues so they can actually move in support of these things instead of deflection.
RPGCrazied
Member
Please talk about gun control. It needs to be talked about seriously, republicans just want more guns, and blame every shooting on mentally ill people.
Need a history lesson? Try 1993. It was a failure, which is probably why she's inclined towards supporting Obamacare now. Learning from the mistakes of aiming too high too quickly.
Netherscourge
Banned
The Lamonster
Member
TBH that's gonna make a lot of independents change the channel. I agree with you though.
Fenderputty
Banned
Strawman so big the fire would light the sky.
He's gonna come out all JACK SWAGGER...
So basically WWE recreated Kurt Angle?
How long until the debate?
Yep. That shit blew up in her face in epic fashion. It's probably why she's a lot more pragmatic with her solutions these days.
Veritigo_X
Member
Biden is going to turn out to be one of the no name guys. "Oh, you haven't heard of this politician before? That's because he doesn't exist!" *rips off Chaffe mask*
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thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
The democrats in the senate have shed off a lot on their right side of the party, mostly because a lot of them lost elections in Red states where they no longer care what you do as long as you have a D next to your name.
I think a future where democrats are strong enough to win back the house is a future where democrats are confident enough to pass a public option at minimum, and medicare for all at maximum.
Single payer may never happen, but it doesn't really need to happen to get to universal healthcare people can be happy with.
mysocksarepink
Banned
I won't be home till well after the debate has begun. Anyway to tune in late, but from the beginning?
No, the Dems would really need to fuck up for any of those nutters to make it to the White House.
Saying this is a contest is being a bit kind to Bernie though. Clinton is still very much in control of her own destiny right now. Short of a massive fuck up on her part, or Joe Biden jumping in, she has a stranglehold on the Obama coalition which makes her unbeatable. Anyone who wants to beat her will need to find a way to steal it away from her, which is easier said than done.
It's why I framed her as Mecha-Godzilla in the OP, and made Bernie the guy who dies half-way through the last Godzilla movie.
Have her polls stopped hemorrhaging?
QuiteWhittle
Member
Are you really asking this after we elected Republicans to control a majority of the House, Senate, state legislatures, and governorships?
User 463088
Banned
I think of O'Malley goes after anyone it's going to be Sanders. There's no benefit to him going after Hillary. I also doubt Hillary or Sanders will go after each other. Hillary has no reason to do so, and Sanders would only hurt himself if he's seen as a bully. Hillary's quite good at debates, usually outperforming Obama by a wide margin. She can stay on message, and you won't trip her up. She knows her shit.
They'll point out whatever minuscule differences exist between them, and then Chafee will also be there. So good for him, I suppose.
Course, I've already seen the Sander supporters on other sites preemptively plan to flood Twitter with "HE WON!" regardless of how he performs. So........ya.
They'll point out whatever minuscule differences exist between them, and then Chafee will also be there. So good for him, I suppose.
Course, I've already seen the Sander supporters on other sites preemptively plan to flood Twitter with "HE WON!" regardless of how he performs. So........ya.
I'd be happy to hear your argument. If you want to debate Hillary's record and that of the Obama administration on pro corporate legislation and bills including TPP, i'd be happy to hear your rebuttals.
Sanders is focusing on the issues, not personality politics. If anyone drags him into that realm, it'll be Hilary.
benicillin
Banned
This is probably the worst thing that is likely to happen. The Reddit brogressives will be hitting social media hardcore...oh how I hate them.
They were never really hemorrhaging though. She just went from being 50 points up to ~25 points up among Registered Democrats, that was always going to happen once someone challenged her. Bernie's support among independents buoy his numbers when it comes to the big number that most places put out, but they can't vote in most primaries so you need to look at registered democrats to get a good idea as to how he's really doing. The answer to that is he's gone from ~5% to ~24%, but he's still down by a huge margin.
If Bernie wants to win he not only needs to be incredibly impressive in this debate, and all the following debates, but hope that Clinton also completely flubs every debate on the calendar.
He's got a chance at making it, but Clinton is still very much in charge of her own destiny.
This ignore the fact that Hillary's strongest when it comes to specific policy, not personality politics. If she goes after him it will be with specific policy and exactly how she plans to get it past Congress and implement it.
I've said it before but Switzerland is really the next major step this country needs to look toward. Switzerland with some targeted legislation to deal with some of our own unique problems. Add a public option to the exchange and/or mandate insurers operate as 401c3's with Switzerland style wage and price controls. Deal with the pharmaceutical, Hospital and doctors pricing.
From there we would actually see some major inroads at bending that cost curve Obama talked about. Then we can take the next step toward Medicare for all.
Fenderputty
Banned
I'm not even sure what you're talking about right now. All I commented on was that you set up an argument to attack the he never made.
EDIT: The argument has and always will be, if their presidencies would look similar due to congressional fuckery, that we better make sure a Lib gets in for SCOTUS appointees as well as lower courts. I won't bother posting the numerous studies that show a candidate generally tries to accomplish what they run on. You've been shown that study and dismissed it plenty.
QuiteWhittle
Member
Why do you think that?
Hellwarden
Member
I always hope that these debates turns into a Dragon Ball Z-esque fight.
Been disappointed so far.
Obama did go super saiyan that one time tho.
Been disappointed so far.
Obama did go super saiyan that one time tho.
Perspicacity
Banned
Obama and human decency were fair targets too, to be fair
I read an article, I forget where but it is out there where his press secretary said he'll be focusing on issues. What those issues are I don't know, I hope the TPP gets a drop, but it seemed to be an article going with the angle that Sanders has no intention of locking horns with Hilary.
So basically if you hear the words "Mrs. Clinton's emails" come from Sanders mouth, he's fallen into the trap.
User 463088
Banned
She hasn't really ever mentioned Sander's name, that I've heard of. She has no reason to do so. She's 20-30 points ahead of him nationally. she's not going to "attack" him. Of course, I've seen Sanders supporters start freaking out if someone doesn't 100% agree with him, so I'm waiting on Twitter to explode if she points out a point of difference between them.
RPGCrazied
Member
My vote for president is either Hillary or Sanders. I'm hoping tonight will sway me to one or the other.
EatinOlives
Member
You're completely changing the argument from "is Sanders gonna be hamstrung by the GOP" to "evil Clinton/Obama and their pro corporate legislations".
Dixon's Jet
Banned
Sanders consistently refuses to help cannibalize the democratic party. I have seen very many interviews where someone tried to get him to say something nasty about Hillary and he constantly says no.
They haven't been on a debate stage together until tonight. If it does begin, this is where it'll happen. If Hilary relentlessly goes after Sanders, especially on the Socialist stuff, that suggests that her dive in polls has spooked her, then the test will be on Sanders whether he decides to roll with the punches. I'm hoping he doesn't take the bait.
benicillin
Banned
I would be genuinely surprised if she went after Sanders for being a socialist. It would seem out of place, especially since Sanders doesn't exactly run away from that description and would probably like the chance to tell everyone why it's not a bad thing. Realistically they agree on a lot of things, so I expect tonight will be more about differentiating themselves from the Republican candidates and the nuances between each other rather than attacking each other on anything.
QuiteWhittle
Member
Oh, I don't think Sanders wants to attack Clinton either. I just don't think Clinton will goad him into trying.
We'll see I guess.
I seriously doubt she's that worried. Her drop in the polls had to be expected by her team, everyone watching knew that someone would pick up steam and be able to challenge her. We're not going to see her go on the attack in the way you're predicting, if anything she'll hit him on policy and how they plan on getting their respective plans through Congress. I wouldn't expect a circus like the GOP debates or a blow-for-blow like she had with Obama.
NullPointer
Member
Shit. This'll be over by the time I get home.
That's the question I'm most interested to see answered, because Hilary's attitude towards Sanders is the trigger for the rest of the election from the democratic side. If she loads the cannons, Sanders will see his chance and go for the rational old man approach and let Hilary make herself look desperate going up against a self proclaimed Socialist from Vermont.
If she goes the pacifist approach as you think, that makes the debate much more interesting and brings the issues they discuss right to the fore. If Sanders and Clinton get into a verbal debate about the TPP on stage in front of millions of viewers, that's a win for everyone.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
If I were Clinton the last thing worrying me would be Bernie Sanders. It's the general election she has to worry about and guys like Ben Carson. Just look at the polling.
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