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[docbon]

I was flipping between the debate and baseball, so I missed some stuff.

I heard the candidates talk about making college more affordable going forward, but did any of them say anything about helping the people who are already drowning in student loan debt?

Both Hillary and Bernie want existing borrowers to be able to refinance their loans at lower interest rates. I think Bernie specifically wants to put it at just over 2%

 

[Cipherr]

The people that conceded the House and Senate to the right are the ones that didn't vote in midterms and now are clamoring for Bernie like some saviour because they predictably have some hero fetish that crops up only around presidential elections. Sorry, but if they wanted progress and real chances for Sanders to actually enact anything there were midterms to be voted in years ago, not just now when they have their new fetish-candidate du jour.

Could have really used the enthusiasm in those midterms man... But it was nowhere to be found. In three years when Hillary is in the house and its time to vote again, it will be quiet as a fucking mouse from these same people, and we all know it.

 

[gcubed]

The people that conceded the House and Senate to the right are the ones that didn't vote in midterms and now are clamoring for Bernie like some saviour because they predictably have some hero fetish that crops up only around presidential elections. Sorry, but if they wanted progress and real chances for Sanders to actually enact anything there were midterms to be voted in years ago, not just now when they have their new fetish-candidate du jour.

Then in some alternate reality he gets elected, young people go "job done!", lose the house and senate in 2 years, then bitch about how Bernie didn't do anything.

I have no sympathy for disenfranchised idiots

 

[Hale-XF11]

I guess I should just be glad that Hilary is ok with states legalizing marijuana. If she wins, then at least things will continue to progress, albeit very slowly. I just wish I knew if she was going to appoint another shithead drug czar, like Obama seems to keep doing for some fucked up reason, or if she'll put someone smart in that position.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I like Bernie. I like his ideas. But has he ever said how he's going to get that fucknugget Congress to go along with them?

Its hard not to think of Hillary as getting Bill Clinton back. Possibly an idealized version of him cause the late 90s were amazing for a lot of us. Its hard not to think of him out there smacking Republicans around, motivating people to support things. Unfair to Sanders, sure, but its Bill Clinton.

Bill was also a major force for deregulation of wall street(in which robert reich got so fed up he had to quit the job as Labor secretary) which many attribute for a lot of what happened in 2008, and the "war on drugs" which set inner city kids back a long time. He was also the one who said the government was the problem in general.

The 90s was a time of great growth for many industries because of the internet and other opportunities. But Bill Clinton's role in that is overstated.

If one is talking about Bernie Sanders and his policies being passed through congress, its not a problem relegated only to him, but any candidate who would go for the democratic ticket.

 

[Machina]

This right here. Always painful to see supposed progressives hop on the neoliberal train and openly mock even discussing these ideas, many ideas that have been implemented to great success abroad.

Ridiculous how progressives are stuck in the 90s. I know a lot of old ass people are still alive and solid voters compared to the younger demographic, but that's why you build a coalition for the future. At least get the discussion rolling today. Get people to know what you're selling and then you work on selling it to them.

Stop being a bunch of fucking cowards

Fucking thank you.

It is ENTIRELY possible to own 2 out of 3 areas of government, then the other side has no power to stop your reforms and your only true critic remains who it should be, the voting public. The White House is the easiest of the 3, the Congress might be out of our reach with the deep south being what it is, but the Senate is certainly doable.

All it takes is young people getting off our fat asses for once in our lives, despite the cynicism we have for the political process, latch on to the only man who is fighting to change that and FUCKING VOTE.

 

[rjinaz]

I would say Bernie and Hilary performed about the same. I will say this though, I feel better about Hilary now that she's center stage. I was not feeling her sitting back and keeping quiet. Even though I still don't like how she artfully dodges questions with non-answers, I feel a lot better about her becoming president.

Overall I was surprised to find I actually enjoyed the debate, these things usually bore me.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

The people that conceded the House and Senate to the right are the ones that didn't vote in midterms and now are clamoring for Bernie like some saviour because they predictably have some hero fetish that crops up only around presidential elections. Sorry, but if they wanted progress and real chances for Sanders to actually enact anything there were midterms to be voted in years ago, not just now when they have their new fetish-candidate du jour.

Well said.

 

[ibyea]

The people that conceded the House and Senate to the right are the ones that didn't vote in midterms and now are clamoring for Bernie like some saviour because they predictably have some hero fetish that crops up only around presidential elections. Sorry, but if they wanted progress and real chances for Sanders to actually enact anything there were midterms to be voted in years ago, not just now when they have their new fetish-candidate du jour.

Unfortunately you are right about this.

 

[kess]

Clinton looked polished tonight, and Bernie was also making good points. Man, I wish this Anderson would show up at the next GOP debates instead of Blitzer.

Bernie was up on every nuance of each political decision he was part of. Chafee could have just said he changed his mind...

Webb was like

 

[Erevador]

Still thinking about Chafee's "it was my first vote" comment. Possibly the worst response I have ever heard in a debate.

 

[The Lamonster]

Great, refreshing debate. Terrible OP and thread title.

 

[Kusagari]

The only way of speaking up that matters in this case is voting. He can say that we need to look the republican house in the eye and demand change, but if it's still a republican house we've already failed. A republican who's just won reelection is not going to care about demands from people who just tried to remove them from office and failed.

That's what I think he ultimately is getting at. When he talks about his revolution he might never actually say it, but it's pretty clear to me he means people voting and kicking those who don't actually care about the middle class out of office.

Do I think that has any real chance of happening? No. But it's not like Bernie just magically promises this shit and guarantees it will happen. He constantly frames it as depending on the people themselves.

 

[metalslimer]

I'm still not even remotely convinced that Bernie can enact any of his lofty ideals which is the only thing that separates him from Clinton who doesn't have the socialist baggage. With the house the way it is this election is all about winning. I would be okay with O'Malley, Clinton or Sanders being president.

I did gain a lot of respect for Sanders sticking up for Clinton though.

 

[rambis]

This right here. Always painful to see supposed progressives hop on the neoliberal train and openly mock even discussing these ideas, many ideas that have been implemented to great success abroad.

Ridiculous how progressives are stuck in the 90s. I know a lot of old ass people are still alive and solid voters compared to the younger demographic, but that's why you build a coalition for the future. At least get the discussion rolling today. Get people to know what you're selling and then you work on selling it to them.

Stop being a bunch of fucking cowards

My man.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Could have really used the enthusiasm in those midterms man... But it was nowhere to be found. In three years when Hillary is in the house and its time to vote again, it will be quiet as a fucking mouse from these same people, and we all know it.

Bullshit. I support Bernie and I voted in 2014.

 

[jtb]

I'm sure this has probably been asked before but...

uh, was it just me, or were there NO questions on the Metric system????

 

[gcubed]

Bullshit. I support Bernie and I voted in 2014.

And you got a sticker, congrats.

 

[Escape Goat]

Great, refreshing debate. Terrible OP and thread title.

Someone needs to explain the thread title to me.

 

[Jonm1010]

Could it be that they're inheriting a society that very clearly has rigged everything against them? That the previous generation has broken so many frameworks of life for them to fix? Do you really expect them to show enthusiasm for what is fucking them over? You'll only get enthusiasm either by appealing to them, or just fucking them over enough that a social movement happens, ala OWS.

Sanders seems to be the only guy trying to empower them to get involved in big ways, so props to him. It makes sense why he may be the forerunner for that generation in this debate.

When you see the incredible youth turnout in countries where people are literally threatening violence against them and then you look at our completely apathetic youth in this country it is hard to feel much sympathy.

I could certainly list a bunch of things that work against our motivation to vote but honestly that only goes so far. But when you contrast it with other countries that are showing up it starts to look like poor excuses. There are 83 million millennials. If we showed up we could be an unbelievable force in politics. But we don't consistently so politics caters to those that do. Baby Boomers may have stacked the deck against us but Millennials are watching cat videos while they continue to do it. Then bitching on GAF, tumblr, Facebook, and to friends about the bullshit they have inherited.

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

Still thinking about Chafee's "it was my first vote" comment. Possibly the worst response I have ever heard in a debate.

Seriously it seemed like he wasn't even prepared for the question and it was just something that he instinctively reacted to. Because if that was a PLANNED answer? Dude is dumber than dirt.

 

[NormalFish]

CNN.com headline is a fucking disgrace.

Ridiculous.

 

[zychi]

Bullshit. I support Bernie and I voted in 2014.

You and 12 other people sadly. Millenial generation didnt vote for midterns and fucked up congress for Obama

 

[Vire]

I fucking hate CNN, tons of interesting shit said in this debate and all they do is play the "in tired of dah damn emails" sound bite over and over.

 

[benjipwns]

Its hard not to think of Hillary as getting Bill Clinton back. Possibly an idealized version of him cause the late 90s were amazing for a lot of us. Its hard not to think of him out there smacking Republicans around, motivating people to support things.

"The Era of Big Government is over."

"End of Welfare as we know it."

Deploying U.S. Troops more times than all the Presidents since Truman combined. Claiming multiple times that Saddam had WMDs while bombing Iraq and imposing sanctions.

The V-Chip and School Uniforms as national issues.

Don't Ask Don't Tell. Defense of Marriage Act.

Hundreds of thousands of new cops on the street!

 

[Trojita]

CNN.com headline is a fucking disgrace.

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow

 

[Foffy]

Develop an app that scares the political class then. That allows the teeming apathetic hordes to translate their internet angst into something more tangible than a clever hashtag. Aren't apps what the kids are doing these days?

*adjusts reading glasses*

Too many people have apathy to our social problems, and apathy is acceptance. I think futility is largely the catalyst to lead to action after that. Become apathetic that you very likely make less money than you're supposed to as you try and whittle away your college debts. It could always be worse, right? What happens when your job is gone and can't pay the parasites at Sallie Mae? You're left technologically unemployed, doomed to homeless in a growing trend.

Though, should we even rely on an app? Taking you seriously for a moment, we have people in office, today, that don't even read emails. Would an app even help get a message across?

 

[benjipwns]

I'm sure this has probably been asked before but...

uh, was it just me, or were there NO questions on the Metric system????

CNN was very clearly anti-Chafee imo.

Spoiler

Much like the American people.

 

[TemplaerDude]

So CNN.com seems to be saying Hillary arm fucked this debate right up the ass, or at least I'm to assume from the pictures and headlines sprawled across the website. Is this true?

 

[metalslimer]

Can someone explain to me what exactly Sanders can put through as president that Obama couldn't get passed? The argument that liberals are cowards doesn't make sense in the current climate where literally no republicans will support the president on anything.

 

[YoungHav]

What did Hillary sweep? Lebron James she is not. I thought Hillary and Bernie held their own, no one swept shit. CNN is lame.

 

[FloydtheFathead]

CNN was very clearly anti-Chafee imo.

I mean it was his first debate. His campaign just died.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

"The Era of Big Government is over."

"End of Welfare as we know it."

Deploying U.S. Troops more times than all the Presidents since Truman combined. Claiming multiple times that Saddam had WMDs while bombing Iraq and imposing sanctions.

The V-Chip and School Uniforms as national issues.

Don't Ask Don't Tell. Defense of Marriage Act.

Hundreds of thousands of new cops on the street!

Well sure. Everything looks bad if you remember it.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The funny thing is that CNN International's headline is "A bruising fight" and pictures Sanders dressing down Clinton.

 

[And_Gignac]

Could have really used the enthusiasm in those midterms man... But it was nowhere to be found. In three years when Hillary is in the house and its time to vote again, it will be quiet as a fucking mouse from these same people, and we all know it.

Well, maybe a person like Sanders is needed for those people to actually show up during mid-terms? I dont see how this argument hits Bernie, it actually shows why would he be needed in the presidency.

 

[A Human Becoming]

 

[ryseing]

Ryseing please ;_;

Sorry, was away.

IMO all of the programs you mentioned have major issues which come from a central government trying to apply one policy to fifty different states.

Socialism works in Europe because most of the countries are small and have homogeneous populations. Closest eqivalent we have is of course the state. Our states were once laboratories of democracy and need to be so again. Give each state the flexibility to find policies which work for their residents.

Minimum wage is a great example. $15/hour nationwide is not practical. For areas like San Francisco? Sure. For random small town Iowa $15 would kill the local economy, and so a different number needs to be found.

/idealist PS student. Feel free to tear me apart.

 

[Brakke]

I like Bernie. I like his ideas. But has he ever said how he's going to get that fucknugget Congress to go along with them?

Its hard not to think of Hillary as getting Bill Clinton back. Possibly an idealized version of him cause the late 90s were amazing for a lot of us. Its hard not to think of him out there smacking Republicans around, motivating people to support things. Unfair to Sanders, sure, but its Bill Clinton.

I still can't even tell if he really thinks he has any kind of chance. A few of his answers tonight made it sound like the campaign is his end game. He wants to stand tall and encourage election participation, the campaign is a way to accomplish that. He almost sounded like he cares more about encouraging turn out for the purpose of taking back congress than he cares about securing the nomination for himself.

 

[metalslimer]

Well, maybe a person like Sanders is needed for those people to actually show up during mid-terms? I dont see how this argument hits Bernie, it actually shows why would he be needed in the presidency.

Bernies supporters will turn on him the second none of his policies make it through congress Or if they do are unrecognizable.

 

[stufte]

What did Hillary sweep? Lebron James she is not. I thought Hillary and Bernie held their own, no one swept shit. CNN is lame.

Exactly. Blatantly trying to shape the narrative, MSM has a hard-on for Clinton in the general.

 

[NullPointer]

Though, should we even rely on an app? Taking you seriously for a moment, we have people in office, today, that don't even read emails. Would an app even help get a message across?

I was only being half-facetious. I've pondered ideas along these lines for a while now and do think there is amazing potential.

 

[benjipwns]

Well sure. Everything looks bad if you remember it.

If I wound up as President, this would be the title of my memoir.

 

[Eidan]

Well, maybe a person like Sanders is needed for those people to actually show up during mid-terms? I dont see how this argument hits Bernie, it actually shows why would he be needed in the presidency.

I think the issue is that these voters aren't truly engaged in the political process, at best showing up once every four years when there's a personality that can easily center their focus on and go to the polls to support. But when it comes time for the midterms, that figure isn't on the ballot, so they don't care. If it happened to Obama, it would certainly happen to a President Sanders.

 

[Floridian]

Perfect

 

[ezrarh]

I still can't even tell if he really thinks he has any kind of chance. A few of his answers tonight made it sound like the campaign is his end game. He wants to stand tall and encourage election participation, the campaign is a way to accomplish that. He almost sounded like he cares more about encouraging turn out for the purpose of taking back congress than he cares about securing the nomination for himself.

That's how his campaign style has always been. It's worked really well for him in Vermont but I don't know how far it will take him in the primaries.

 

[And_Gignac]

Bernies supporters will turn on him the second none of his policies make it through congress Or if they do are unrecognizable.

Maybe, maybe not. MAYBE the left needs to get off their high horse and drown themselves in a little bit of idealism and cult of personality. The right did it with Reagan and it did wonders for them.

 

[daffy]

I think the issue is that these voters aren't truly engaged in the political process, at best showing up once every four years when there's a personality that can easily center their focus on and go to the polls to support. But when it comes time for the midterms, that figure isn't on the ballot, so they don't care. If it happened to Obama, it would certainly happen to a President Sanders.

They used to not show up period. Give them time. They'll come around given the right motivations. And continued sweeps of the white house will do it. I got my friends to vote in 2014 and they never do midterms.

 

[gcubed]

Maybe, maybe not. MAYBE the left needs to get off their high horse and drown themselves in a little bit of idealism and cult of personality. The right did it with Reagan and it did wonders for them.

I'm really confused... What do you think happened in 2008?

 

[FloydtheFathead]

If I wound up as President, this would be the title of my memoir.

But you won't be because you are an anarchist.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

Can someone explain to me what exactly Sanders can put through as president that Obama couldn't get passed? The argument that liberals are cowards doesn't make sense in the current climate where literally no republicans will support the president on anything.

I interpret this as an argument for making less of an effort.