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Democratic Primary Debate V

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T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Life in prison is a form of violence, was the progressive stance I thought. Just one that we support. The problem I have with the death penalty is that it allows for the possibility of accidental innocent execution, not because it is violent and other forms of incarceration and punishment are not
 
undrtakr900

undrtakr900

Member
Coolluck said:
Gross. Irregardless. I'm not sure if you can judge debate skills. (I agree with you. Bernie is too much of an idealist)
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I might've worded that wrong, I was refering to her responses on foreign affairs, she sounds confident and knowledgeable. Just like, how Bernie is passionate about domestic issues.
 
A

ApharmdX

Banned
HylianTom said:
I disagree with her on the death penalty, but say the same thing I said about gay rights in the 90s: this is going to be an issue that'll likely be addressed in the judiciary. The candidate won't be able to do much, but his/her judicial nominees will do the heavy lifting.
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This is more like gay marriage in the 2000's. It's about political expediency rather than what's right. And it's a shame.

Edit: the courts will do the work, but the president should be on the right side of this.
 
R

Ragnarsson

Member
Bernie was brilliant in this.

Also, I think that Hillary is just trying to be consistent in her views. I don't really buy that she's for the death penalty...
 
U

ugaboga232

Member
Abinash117 said:
I wasn't talking about "world order" the question was is a who bigger threat to the US. You literally didn't even counter the argument what Russia actually did. Just because you say no one cares about Ukraine doesn't mean no cares. So trying to say that a country that stole territory, started a civil war, and is conducting military actions in Syria that is challenging the US is somehow less of a threat to a country that has a worse economy, can't barely feed it's people, and is mostly isolated from the rest of the world is crazy.
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US national security, not interests. If we are talking about interests, yea Russia is a very annoying problem. NK has options to do significant global damage if pushed to the brink. But Russia annexing a weak neighbor (which is horrible) does not mean it could ever threaten the US in its current state.
 
D

Damaniel

Banned
ezrarh said:
What does it say about the enthusiasm for her if she beat Bernie by <1% in Iowa with over 100k less voters than in 2008.
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Look at it the other way. Bernie lost (barely though) in a state tailor-made for his demographic (top five whitest state in America, 40%+ of Democrats identifying as socialist) pushing for a 'revolution' involving a groundswell of new voters coming to support him. If that's the best he can manage, then he'll have a hard time after New Hampshire.
 
P

Prodigal Son

Member
RustyNails said:
Bernie himself said that he will dismantle Obamacare and start with a new universal healthcare program. WaPo gave him two Pinnocchios
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Ah yes. Sanders would clearly. dismantle Obamacare leaving millions of Americans with no form of health insurance while waiting for the unlikely passing of a single payer bill.
Come on. Single payer and the affordable care act wouldn't exist simultaneously. It goes without saying that for one to take effect, the other would no longer be in effect. It's fairly obvious (in part because he has said it and in part because 'no fucking shit') that our first step to a single payer system wouldn't be to leave Americans without health care.

This doesn't mean the single payer system will pass now or any time soon. It just means that our first steps to achieving it obviously wouldn't be to dismantle Obama-care. That is untrue.
 
O

OpinionatedCyborg

Member
The Technomancer said:
Life in prison is a form of violence, was the progressive stance I thought. Just one that we support. The problem I have with the death penalty is that it allows for the possibility of accidental innocent execution, not because it is violent and other forms of incarceration and punishment are not
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The state of life in prison is unacceptable in the US too.
 
F

Four_Chamber

Member
Yeah, no president is going to influence capital punishment. 10th amendment will keep this at the state level. Personally, I personally think the death penalty is OK in limited circumstances.

The vast majority of this country favors the death penalty too by at least a 2:1 margin
 
K

KuwabaraTheMan

Banned
Big Baybee said:
So if a person who has a family member murdered, they are evil if the want the person responsible put to death?
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They're going through grief and it's understandable that they would feel so.

But politicians who didn't lose a loved one, judges, jurors, prosecutors, etc, who support that person being murdered? They're evil.
 
G

Grover

Banned
Flint michigan is such a shitshow,

i would rage beyond belief if i was poisoning my kid because a person in power assured me that it was perfectly ok to let them drink it,

and all because the state couldn't afford the regular water because the governor was giving big tax breaks to the type of people who payed to help him get elected

fuck my kids health buddy? no, fuck your health
 
N

nib95

Banned
eBay Huckster said:
This is a very late response.

Per Mark Thoma in 2009 (citing Bernanke, Stiglitz, King, et al):

These things were largely implemented in Dodd-Frank. Clinton is campaigning on restoring Section 716 to that Act in order to give its derivatives regulation more teeth.

If I'm obfuscating and digressing, it's because it's not necessarily clear that breaking up the banks is actually necessary to materially improve the current situation to the point that a shock would not lead to as deep a recession.
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It's unsurprising that Ben Bernanke, who served two terms as Chairman of the Federal Reserve and also of President George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers, would say that, and the amusing thing is he couldn't even say it definitively. "Making banks smaller would not necessarily be the solution to the problem" Lol. Nobody is saying it would irradiate all issues altogether, just that it would help the situation in numerous ways, as right now the banks being as big and as few as they are affords them luxuries, powers, scope and security that is dangerous in the wider sense.

Yes, if they were broken up in to smaller institutions, those institutions could still pose a risk, partake in fraud and/or fail. But at the end of the day they'd still be easier to control, manage, fine, or lose, than one giant bank with even more power and lobbying potential.
 
K

kirblar

Member
nib95 said:
Of course Ben Bernanke, who served two terms as Chairman of the Federal Reserve would say that, and the hilarious thing is he couldn't even say it definitively. "Making banks smaller would not necessarily be the solution to the problem" Lol. Nobody is saying it would irradiate all issues altogether, just that it would help the situation in numerous ways, as right now the banks being as big and as few as they are affords them luxuries, powers, scope and security that is dangerous in the wider sense.

Yes, if they were broken up it to smaller institutions, those institutions could still pose a risk, partake in fraud and/or fail. But at the end of the day they'd still be easier to control, manage, fine, or lose, than one giant bank with even more power and lobbying potential.
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Canada has very few banks and a very stable financial sector that's in better shape than ours - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_and_credit_unions_in_Canada
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Grover said:
Flint michigan is such a shitshow,

i would rage beyond belief if i was poisoning my kid because a person in power assured me that it was ok to let them drink it
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The Flint situation is insane. I want every inhabitant in that city to lead the largest class action lawsuit in history, except Michigan is so broke there's no way they could seek any kind of reparations
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Bernie should get some small bump from the AA demographic after this debate. He is really sounding good in this debate. He knocked it out of the park on the Flint question.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Prodigal Son said:
Ah yes. Sanders would clearly. dismantle Obamacare leaving millions of Americans with no form of health insurance while waiting for the unlikely passing of a single payer bill.
Come on. Single payer and the affordable care act wouldn't exist simultaneously. It goes without saying that for one to take effect, the other would no longer be in effect. It's fairly obvious (in part because he has said it and in part because 'no fucking shit') that our first step to a single payer system wouldn't be to leave Americans without health care.

This doesn't mean the single payer system will pass now or any time soon. It just means that our first steps to achieving it obviously wouldn't be to dismantle Obama-care. That is untrue.
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When you talk about dismantling Obamacare or starting anew, you're talking about Obama's legacy and his hard fought victory. It's not gonna play well especially among his biggest fans.
 
L

lastflowers

Banned
Flint, Michigan is going to be remembered in 50 years for being an excellent true story that acts as the basis of a fantastic David Fincher film.



I still can't come to grips with this shit, like how is this possible and still going on?
 
E

ezrarh

Member
Damaniel said:
Look at it the other way. Bernie lost (barely though) in a state tailor-made for his demographic (top five whitest state in America, 40%+ of Democrats identifying as socialist) pushing for a 'revolution' involving a groundswell of new voters coming to support him. If that's the best he can manage, then he'll have a hard time after New Hampshire.
Click to expand...

I never expected Bernie to win the nomination so from my end, being that close is good. The main reason why I support him is that he's discussing issues that need to be discussed. It's going to take a long time for any of it to be implemented but we have to start somewhere.
 
R

royalan

Member
It's not just foreign policy, Hillary is shining on answers that require a bevy of facts to be recalled.

Bernie shines on anecdotes.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
Dr. Benton Quest said:
No its literally murder.
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Did you even read your own definition you put up . Murder is unlawful killing just like the definition says. Death penalty is the lawful killing of convicted people because the government made it lawful that if convicted of certain crimes and depending on the issue, the government has the right( not moral right) to go through a process to give the person a death penalty.
 
P

Prodigal Son

Member
RustyNails said:
When you talk about dismantling Obamacare or starting anew, you're talking about Obama's legacy and his hard fought victory. It's not gonna play well especially among his biggest fans.
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Can't argue with you there. You're right.

Single payer > Obama care. Maybe history will remember it as a stepping stone to single payer.
 
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