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Democratic Primary Debate V

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I

ICKE

Banned
Basically either accept the trade deals or..

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The point is valid though. We live in a global economy and you can't fight against these market forces easily.
 
R

rex

Member
Abinash117 said:
I wasn't talking about "world order" the question was is a who bigger threat to the US. You literally didn't even counter the argument what Russia actually did. Just because you say no one cares about Ukraine doesn't mean no cares. So trying to say that a country that stole territory, started a civil war, and is conducting military actions in Syria that is challenging the US is somehow less of a threat to a country that has a worse economy, can't barely feed it's people, and is mostly isolated from the rest of the world is crazy.
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Russia's actions can be made to sound scary but they're really not. They're fighting to retain, at best, half of a country that used to be entirely in their orbit.

And they're fighting to retain an ally in Syria. There's no expansion here. No vital US interests are threatened.

I'm not even sure anything Russia is doing is harming US global dominance either. Again, Russia is fighting to retain scraps of what they used to have.

North Korea has an opaque and bizarre leader with actual nuclear weapons and American troops on the DMZ. Even that threat is very minimal, but it's greater than the imaginary ones posed by Russia and Iran.
 
B

barnone

Member
davepoobond said:
Bernie hasn't exactly clarified he wouldn't repeal obamacare or "also" building on it. He isn't using direct language to that effect in the debate. Why not?
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I still think his main goal is to keep the conversations focused on what he believes important for the country to discuss. he doesn't give specific suggestions because he probably agrees with Hilary on everything in FP. he doesn't want to provide sound bites about foreign policy specifics. he wants people talking about domestic issues.

But he does respond with what he knows in FP: the Islamic community is spiritually broken in two and we should assist them in them repairing themselves. we should avoid interfering as we did in the last decade. personally, Bernie acknowledging this lets me respect him more than the Republican candidates plenty enough.

edit: concerning obamacare, he probably won't repeal ACA until he can guarantee a better alternative
 
L

Log4Girlz

Member
The Technomancer said:
Life in prison is a form of violence, was the progressive stance I thought. Just one that we support. The problem I have with the death penalty is that it allows for the possibility of accidental innocent execution, not because it is violent and other forms of incarceration and punishment are not
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Same here.
 
M

massoluk

Banned
Probably not a popular opinion around here, but I cannot agree with no-free-trade-ever policies. I want USA to lift the living standards of people in Vietnam, sorry.
 
loki 16

loki 16

Member
RustyNails said:
That's the crux of the problem. Obamacare is Obama's legacy which he fought tooth and nail to pass through his own majority Congress. To say you will remove Obamacare is taking away his legacy, and that will hurt Obama, his supporters and just plays badly with Obama's supporters.
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You don't want better health care just because Obamacare is Obama's legacy? I bet those supporters won't care when they get better health coverage.
 
E

Effect

Member
Prodigal Son said:
Get that Minority vote, Bern!

Older minorities will still vote for Hillary.
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As well younger minorities most likely. At least the bulk. That youth vote Bernie is getting is overwhelmingly white. People shouldn't be fooled by the articles that talk about it. It's very interesting they don't actually explain the make up of that support.
 
L

lastflowers

Banned
stupei said:
When he's 103? Damn.
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no, I mean in 50 years the only thing people will remember is that he made a fantastic film about it. Maybe in 100 years it'll be a paragraph detailing the long tendrils of racism, greed, and governmental neglect. But yeah, it'd be even better if Fincher was 2 feet in the grave while filming his last one.
 
N

noshten

Member
Loving on the reasons he has voted against every trade deal, but this is going to be used against him
on this forum
 
G

Geist-

Member
massoluk said:
Probably not a popular opinion around here, but I cannot agree with no-free-trade-ever policies. I want USA to lift the living standards of people in Vietnam, sorry.
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It would be pretty cool if part of the free trade agreement was raising minimum wages to comparable levels to the US (not necessarily the same, just higher than the impossible to compete with 56 cent minimum wages).
 
O

Overlee

Member
VRMN said:
It is possible to disagree with someone on one thing but agree with them on most things, and thus support them in the abstract.
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Yeah that's the point I was making. Referring to Clinton's woeful attack against Sanders last debate:

Disparaging comments from Sanders “don’t just affect me; I can take that,” Clinton said, “but he’s criticized President Obama for taking donations from Wall Street and President Obama has led out country out of the great recession.”
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R

RustyNails

Member
loki 16 said:
You don't want better health care just because Obamacare is Obama's legacy? I bet those supporters won't care when they get better health coverage.
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I want better healthcare, but built using Obama's legacy as a platform. There is already a public option in the House bill that integrates with ACA. We just need a majority in the Congress to pass it. Boom. Single Payer healthcare.
 
P

Prodigal Son

Member
Effect said:
As well younger minorities most likely. At least the bulk. That youth vote Bernie is getting is overwhelmingly white. People shouldn't be fooled by the articles that talk about it. It's very interesting they don't actually explain the make up of that support.
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Anecdotal, but I am a black man and have never encountered a pro-hillary person among all of my black friends. (All three of them) They're Bernie supporters. Their parents? Different story.

I don't think young African Americans are pro-clinton at all. Unless there's a poll somewhere that indicates otherwise.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Geist- said:
It would be pretty cool if part of the free trade agreement was raising minimum wages to comparable levels to the US (not necessarily the same, just higher than the impossible to compete with 56 cent minimum wages).
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That would definitely be nice. If we have to lose jobs then I'd like to see companies do right by workers abroad.
 
S

Soulscribe

Member
royalan said:
It's not just foreign policy, Hillary is shining on answers that require a bevy of facts to be recalled.

Bernie shines on anecdotes.
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This. Bernie supporters seem to conveniently ignore the fact that Hillary decimates him beyond just surface-level policy proposals.
 
P

pa22word

Member
kirblar said:
Death penalty stats-
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^

Hilary would say she fucked the devil last night if she thought it would better serve her to get elected....

She's gently pissing off some dems in the primary in order to be better positioned in the general election, because let's face it, no one here is going to be a single issue voter over the death penalty anyways.
 
N

nib95

Banned
kirblar said:
Canada has very few banks and a very stable financial sector that's in better shape than ours - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_and_credit_unions_in_Canada
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And that's great for Canada, but it's not the situation in the United States. Corruption, lobbying, buying off politicians, a broken legal system, inefficiencies in regulation, fraud prevention, government sway, political presence and so on and so on, create a different set of circumstances and challenges that are more unique to America. All of these things of course need to be tackled, but breaking up the banks is just one thing on a list of many that could pave the way to tackling the above more effectively.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
So, none of the above.

I don't mean that to dismiss her answer, just to showcase that she's going to take the torch from Obama and run with it in terms of incremental change, not the big heavy lifting issues.

Bernie's got the right answer imho.
 
A

ApharmdX

Banned
Prodigal Son said:
Anecdotal, but I am a black man and have never encountered a pro-hillary person among all of my black friends. They're Bernie supporters. Their parents? Different story.

I don't think young African Americans are pro-clinton at all. Unless there's a poll somewhere that indicates otherwise.
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Eh, Bill Clinton has always been beloved by black people, despite policies which harmed us. I think that, among all ages of African-Americans, Hillary Clinton carries that love.
 
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