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Democratic Primary Debate VI: Raid Time 2/11 9PM EST
- Thread starter dramatis
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brainchild
Banned
This was a really good debate, the first of which (on the Democratic side) Bernie handily won, though Hillary had the best opening/closing.
Tesseract
Banned
what is this salty discharge
Puppet Shadow
Member
Oh ya, she's the one that insisted the people in Prince George were burning crosses in their yards. She's a loon.I'm talking about all Americans. Too many American voters vote on superficial attributes instead of platform and facts / statistics. Same could be said about any citizen but it's more present in America.
Oh, and here's the candidate for my old riding (our political system is different then yours) I had voted for in the past in Canada:
She had the best platform items.
I don't give a shit about his compassion I care about a President's ability to govern and protect the country. Carter failed utterly in this regard.
Fine, no more of that from me. I just hope everyone else can do the same.
Really curious how the polls will be shaping up after this debate in SC. We'll see if this new attack angle pays off for her.
Are people listening when she speaks?
She repeated multiple times that she wants to build upon what Obama has done. Not stay the course. Not blow it up and start over.
Its reciprocated, as well. Obama hasn't formally endorsed either, obviously, but he has been signalling through aides he'd prefer a Clinton nom. I think its an incredibly smart strategy for Hillary and honestly would be silly of her not to exploit.
I'm not a Sanders fan but I'm warming up to him. I think people need to drop this tribal bs and just judge based on policy. And if they're guy or girl doesn't get elected it isn't time to drop the ball and go home.
She has that effect on people. I didn't catch the whole debate sadly. Did she call for starting WW3 again by imposing a no-fly zone over Syria?
Well I vehemently disagree. I honestly feel that it is partly because of the United States (and others) support of the rebels in Syria, that ISIS was able to form in the first place. Obama should have never gone against Assad and supported these factions that just ended up being a worse evil. Especially when at the time Assad had majority support from the Syrian population.
It was a catastrophic misjudgement on Obama's part. Just not as catastrophic as the decision to go to war in Iraq.
I don't know if it's just because Obama is cool, and a great speaker or what, but I feel people really have rose tinted glasses when it comes to some of his policies. He's being let off for some truly heinous shit, that shouldn't be excused just because he's done good too. Though I agree, he's infinitely better than the Republican's before him.
She's a decent person with a democratic (as in party) centrist ideology. I just don't think she's a progressive. That's not an unfair divisive opinion.
I'd be glad to support a person with her views in the general if that happens to be the landscape. I just want somebody who goes further.
How about the increasing clusterfuck over copyright laws? Or increasing drug prices EVEN FURTHER? And MORE deregulation for banks? Is that really what the world needs?
Only when Sanders has an iffy performance.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
No way. She's not a good enough politician to play that game or has the personality to pull that off.
The second she admits she took Wall Street money, she's done.
AwesomePossum
Member
Tad Devine is terrible.
Funny because it does none of those things.
M0nochromatic
Member
Kissinger out of nowhere was a fantastic moment. It was a highlight, but it still seems like he's playing catch up to Clinton on FP.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
There are plenty of metrics that are used to measure how effective a President was. Kindness isn't usually one of them. Mostly because there's no objective measure of kindness.
Carter seems like he was, and still is, a fantastic person. But he was a mediocre President. Bill Clinton was the exact opposite on both sides of that: A scumbag as a person, but a damn good President (and notice I didn't say "perfect President," because yes, he made mistakes. But as a whole, he is generally considered among the upper tiers).
Pretty much, I don't see any downside to it. You have Sanders core rallying against the establishment and well I mean that's by extension Obama presidency. It is what it it, positioning yourself as the candidate Obama will simply hand his baton off to is a solid platform to stand on.
I don't think he failed spectacularly at defence so I don't buy your premise.
Now look who is being intentionally vague
balladofwindfishes
Member
Her and Sanders share more than 90% of their voting records. Hillary is very much a progressive.
Misc thoughts:
Clinton asks Sanders how Scott Walker and republican legislatures may effect his plans for funding universal free tuition. Sanders comeback is essentially "free tuition is important, I really like it."
Millionaires and Billionaires everywhere. Can't turn around without bumping into one
Bernie was really soft on when the two were trading financial regulation plans. I think he genuinely doesn't realize that Clinton's plan is a lot stronger than his?
Sanders has heard of Winston Churchill, so we can be confident that he has at least a middle school education on world history.
Basically activated the trap card on supporting Obama. Went from "Can't a senator disagree with a president" to "Dude you wanted him to get primaried." He had to have been able to see that coming, but was left with the sort of dumbfounded "Well, you challenged him to be president in 2008"
Clinton asks Sanders how Scott Walker and republican legislatures may effect his plans for funding universal free tuition. Sanders comeback is essentially "free tuition is important, I really like it."
Millionaires and Billionaires everywhere. Can't turn around without bumping into one
Bernie was really soft on when the two were trading financial regulation plans. I think he genuinely doesn't realize that Clinton's plan is a lot stronger than his?
Sanders has heard of Winston Churchill, so we can be confident that he has at least a middle school education on world history.
Basically activated the trap card on supporting Obama. Went from "Can't a senator disagree with a president" to "Dude you wanted him to get primaried." He had to have been able to see that coming, but was left with the sort of dumbfounded "Well, you challenged him to be president in 2008"
So when the Syrian Revolution began and Assad's force began shooting unarmed protesters the President was supposed to just shut up and keep supporting Assad against a democratic movement springing up?
Psychoward
Banned
by what metric? polls indicate the opposite
We already have polls?
Officerrob
Banned
It's usually when people make sweeping claims about the candidate they are not in favor of getting "rekt". That in turn ruffles peoples feathers and we go round and round
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Glorified G
Member
This is rich coming from you
You were fucking 10/11 years old when Obama took office. Your whole world view is based off an off-topic section of a videogame message board.
Please tell me the name of the planet you're living on where everybody doesn't already know that.
So you think people think Bernie's just lying about that?
She also lost a primary against him running a campaign saying he was inexperianced idealistic pseudo kenyan. Yeah, her campaign was the people who started the whole birther movement. Now she wants to run on the things he has done?
Smh, the nerve of this white female millionaire.
Lets be honest with history here. What Bernie's core criticism about Obama is in fact very true.
He had an unprecedented amount of energy and goodwill coming into office. The likes of which we haven't seen in over a generation.
What did he do with that? Pretty much nothing.
He rolled in with a super majority and and all that energy and allowed that to be squandered and his presidency largely diminished in just 2 years. Allowing his last 6 years to largely be on the defensive. As Bernie has rightly pointed out time and again, Obama needed to channel that energy with the bully pulpit and use that momentum to try and keep it going. But he largely let that energy dry up and go away. When the Republicans went the way they did with obstruction and partisanship he should of played hardball. Called them out on their bullshit loud and continuously. Threw campaign style rallies to get out the vote in the midterms instead of trying to keep up the Lincoln "Team of Rivals"/great negotiator character he was too in love with for too long. It was honestly also where Hillary's criticism of inexperience from the primaries truly proved out.
He did some great things in those 2 years. Great things with their own deserved criticism though.
And he has done some great things since. But nothing as major.
Whether Hillary will publicly admit it or not her campaign actions speak for her, she knows Obama took the wrong approach in the face of Republicans and that is why she has designed her platform around the things she has.
balladofwindfishes
Member
If we do, they're basically meaningless. No different than Trump bragging about some junk Drudge poll that happens minutes after a debate ends. Not enough time has passed to gather actual data.
I don't dispute that it isn't the sole measure. But I think his lack of engagement in tons of potential hotspots likely saved millions of lives. Sure it's hypothetical, but isn't that the case for anybody who doesn't engage and kill every time they could?
Psychoward
Banned
yes, online ones so they're biased towards Sanders I'd argue but I don't think the majority would say Sanders did poorly.
I've actually read the TPP and all you did was shout out vague assertions, back those assertions up with actual sources from within the TPP and I'll join the discussion.
If nothing else, I hope Sanders has a protege or has at least inspired someone to take up his cause for a future election.
A younger, more charismatic Sanders with better debate skills? I would go for that. I also hope that we have more candidates in the future who are funded solely through individual donors. He's changed the political tenor of the Democratic party for the better, I think.
A younger, more charismatic Sanders with better debate skills? I would go for that. I also hope that we have more candidates in the future who are funded solely through individual donors. He's changed the political tenor of the Democratic party for the better, I think.
The U.S is in the business of regime change... it's a foreign policy tenet without party lines. The only thing that changes is implementation, not goals. In that sense, since every president before him has been engaged in such more or less (depending on the climate at their respective presidencies); Obama in my pov has done very well for himself and for America's standing after the total collapse of the W. years.
Officerrob
Banned
Please point me to these scientific online polls...
Yo that last question summed up in an image.
Moderators hit them with a foreign policy question and they both went Nah.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Something thought to be be true is different than the actual person coming out and admitting to it.
The optics would be awful for her campaign.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
No, actually, Obama is not the King of Democrats. And furthermore, Democrats are not all progressive. Not by a long shot. He passed what he could get passed.
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