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[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Your cynicism doesn't change the fact that states are being forced to make painful budget cuts.

Doesn't mean I give a crap. I mean look at New Jersey, who gives a shit about New Jersey. :lol

 

[Pctx]

EU members already pay VAT--value added taxes on goods.

FYI America is not part of the EU nor do we want to be. I feel sorry for you folks that have to pay VAT.

 

[JesseZao]

wtf America doesn't pay tax if you buy off internet? :lol

seems like putting sales tax on internet stuff might be a good way to start digging yourselves out of that massive hole.

Taking in money isn't the government's problem...

Edit: Guess I needed italics for emphasis. Oh, and a couple extra periods.

 

[kevm3]

Nice, the government misspends money and now its time to come tap the pockets of the little people. This will be a good blow to online sales. One of the things that makes it worhtwhile to shop online is the lack of taxes occasionally... I still get charged taxes for some things, but now, there is a lot less incentive when you're going to have to pay for taxes on TOP of shipping. A lot of good deals online don't look like quite as good a deal.

 

[SolarPowered]

Yeah...the whole mess involving government use of taxes is whole other can of worms.

I can't really disagree with the taxation of internet sales.

 

[shintoki]

CSU represent! The new 5% tuition increase is killing me.

Hey, I'm not going to your school. Let the Students pay the Student Tax! I Pay the Shintoki Tax!

 

[GoldenEye 007]

wtf America doesn't pay tax if you buy off internet? :lol

seems like putting sales tax on internet stuff might be a good way to start digging yourselves out of that massive hole.

EDIT: this really blows my mind that you don't pay tax on internet purchases. I do most of my shopping straight off internet these days, if I was saving 20% VAT everytime I did it. Holy fuck I would have been straight digital person years ago.

It depends. If the online merchant has a physical presence in the particular state you reside in, you'll pay state sales tax. At least I believe this is how most states are setup. And federal sales tax do not exist in general. So this would be something on the state level no matter what.

 

[Alucrid]

wtf America doesn't pay tax if you buy off internet? :lol

seems like putting sales tax on internet stuff might be a good way to start digging yourselves out of that massive hole.

EDIT: this really blows my mind that you don't pay tax on internet purchases. I do most of my shopping straight off internet these days, if I was saving 20% VAT everytime I did it. Holy fuck I would have been straight digital person years ago.

I love ordering records overseas and seeing the -VAT on the order summary.

 

[water_wendi]

Taking in money isn't the government's problem.

Of course it is. When brick and mortar stores cannot compete with tax-less goods they go out of business. When they go out of business people lose jobs. When people lose jobs both them and the defunct business cannot pay taxes. If those tax revenue streams are lost this damages the economy.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

^ THAT X100000

Taking in money isn't the government's problem.

for your local government, yes the hell it is. for so many reasons.

go to a local council meeting and see what they're trying to do with little.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Nice, the government misspends money and now its time to come tap the pockets of the little people. This will be a good blow to online sales. One of the things that makes it worhtwhile to shop online is the lack of taxes occasionally... I still get charged taxes for some things, but now, there is a lot less incentive when you're going to have to pay for taxes on TOP of shipping. A lot of good deals online don't look like quite as good a deal.

It's the same way with Bandwith caps inhibiting online growth. Congress really needs to eliminate companies from pulling that bandwith capping bullshit.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

FYI America is not part of the EU nor do we want to be. I feel sorry for you folks that have to pay VAT.

The guy wasn't suggesting you should be part of the EU. He was responding to the person asking if it would affect the rest of the world.

VAT or a variation of is pretty standard in Non US developed countries. At least aussie and NZ have G.S.T (goods/services tax) which is the same/similar to VAT.

Americas tax setup boggles my mind. I kept fucking up when I went there cause I'd add things in my head while buying stuff at stores, then get to the counter and they'd add the tax. I don't know how any of you can figure out how much you're about to spend before getting to the counter :lol

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Yeah...the whole mess involving government use of taxes is whole other can of worms.

I can't really disagree with the taxation of internet sales.

I can precisely because of your first sentence. Fix that, then think about raising or introducing new taxes. Taking the easy way out all of the time is getting old.

Edit: Catfish, if you want to know how much you spend before you're rung up, it's subtotal*(1+state tax/100). Ex. $75.46x1.065 = $80.36. Simple calculator does the trick. If you're grocery shopping, unprepared food items usually are not taxed.

 

[ALeperMessiah]

Of course it is. When brick and mortar stores cannot compete with tax-less goods they go out of business. When they go out of business people lose jobs. When people lose jobs both them and the defunct business cannot pay taxes. If those tax revenue streams are lost this damages the economy.

Do online stores not employ people or face these same consequences? While states and locals may not be getting sales tax they're still in them for property, income, payroll, etc. etc. etc.

 

[entremet]

FYI America is not part of the EU nor do we want to be. I feel sorry for you folks that have to pay VAT.

I know. I was just responding the poster.

The guy wasn't suggesting you should be part of the EU. He was responding to the person asking if it would affect the rest of the world.

VAT or a variation of is pretty standard in Non US developed countries. At least aussie and NZ have G.S.T (goods/services tax) which is the same/similar to VAT.

Americas tax setup boggles my mind. I kept fucking up when I went there cause I'd add things in my head while buying stuff at stores, then get to the counter and they'd add the tax. I don't know how any of you can figure out how much you're about to spend before getting to the counter :lol

Yep. It's added to the final sticker price on goods. Unlike US sales tax, which is calculated at the point of sale.

 

[Pctx]

^ THAT X100000


for your local government, yes the hell it is. for so many reasons.

go to a local council meeting and see what they're trying to do with little.

Lol are you suggesting that local governments don't have enough money to provide basic services? :lol that's rich.

 

[water_wendi]

Do online stores not employ people or face these same consequences? While states and locals may not be getting sales tax they're still in them for property, income, payroll, etc. etc. etc.

Overhead for online is much less than a real world presence. That is a fact.

 

[Pctx]

The guy wasn't suggesting you should be part of the EU. He was responding to the person asking if it would affect the rest of the world.

VAT or a variation of is pretty standard in Non US developed countries. At least aussie and NZ have G.S.T (goods/services tax) which is the same/similar to VAT.

Americas tax setup boggles my mind. I kept fucking up when I went there cause I'd add things in my head while buying stuff at stores, then get to the counter and they'd add the tax. I don't know how any of you can figure out how much you're about to spend before getting to the counter :lol

Simple live in a state like mine where we don't have sales tax

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Overhead for online is much less than a real world presence. That is a fact.

Doesn't mean they still don't employ a ton of people.

 

[Trurl]

Lol are you suggesting that local governments don't have enough money to provide basic services? :lol that's rich.

How's the upkeep on that bridge you live under? ;^)

Spoiler

I mean to suggest that you're trolling

 

[ALeperMessiah]

Overhead for online is much less than a real world presence. That is a fact.

overhead != taxes. Overhead savings come from saving the costs that come from operating a brick & mortar store. It is true that online stores need fewer employees, the same could be said of any industrial innovation through history.

 

[Pctx]

How's the upkeep on that bridge you live under? ;^)

Spoiler

I mean to suggest that you're trolling

*looks around* Well it keeps the rain off my back...

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Lol are you suggesting that local governments don't have enough money to provide basic services? :lol that's rich.

I think you should go to a local council meeting and find out. If you know nothing about local government or local economics as it pertains to your city, we don't really have anything to talk about.

a lot of cities are turning paved roads into gravel because they can't afford the upkeep. laying off firefighters and police.

then again, if you live in...fucking Orange county...perhaps your city isn't struggling like so many others.

 

[jamesinclair]

wtf America doesn't pay tax if you buy off internet? :lol

seems like putting sales tax on internet stuff might be a good way to start digging yourselves out of that massive hole.

EDIT: this really blows my mind that you don't pay tax on internet purchases. I do most of my shopping straight off internet these days, if I was saving 20% VAT everytime I did it. Holy fuck I would have been straight digital person years ago.

This may blow your mind even more:

In some US states, there is 0% sales tax. Nothing. No tax. In alaska, theres no income tax either.

Of course, thats why Palin would be such a terrible president. "We dont have sales tax. We dont have income tax. We can and should apply this model to everyone!"

 

[blame space]

How's the upkeep on that bridge you live under?

best troll insinuation EVER

 

[Future]

The loud vocal minority that buys most purchases online would hate this. The vast majority will not give a shit. Online prices are often lower without the sales tax, so I doubt this would affect online sales at all. Plus, many online stores already charge tax depending on where you are located

Surprised online sales aren't taxed already. I am still surprised when I don't get charged tax on some sites. A welcome surprise sure (ca sales tax is like 10%), but I still would have made the purchase regardless... And I believe most would as well

 

[SlipperySlope]

Taxing the Internet is probably the dumbest idea I've ever heard. Like somebody else stated, it's interstate commerce.

It would also negatively affect the business I work for. Anybody who votes to tax Internet sales won't be getting my vote.

 

[Milabrega]

Sadly its already here, anecdotal but my decrease in purchases online hasn't shifted towards an increase at brick and mortar. I despise how quickly and easily it is for democrats to implement regressive taxes like these, while denying to raise taxes on the wealthy or corporations. I guess its better than republicans giving tax cuts to corporations and the wealthy shifting a greater amount of the burden on the poor masses.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Simple live in a state like mine where we don't have sales tax

What's the basis for this? I mean, how is the government getting money from you? No wonder you're so heavily opposed to this :lol

here the top tax rate is 52% on income and 19.5 VAT on goods.

but it's not really bad. I have more than enough disposable income and 6 weeks paid vacation a year and I'm safe if I get sick etc.

How does your state... .exist? Is it rich off some kind of natural resource or what?

 

[Pctx]

I think you should go to a local council meeting and find out. If you know nothing about local government or local economics as it pertains to your city, we don't really have anything to talk about.

a lot of cities are turning paved roads into gravel because they can't afford the upkeep. laying off firefighters and police.

then again, if you live in...fucking Orange county...perhaps your city isn't struggling like so many others.

Done and done. Taxes are about adding padding to an inflated budget that the county, state or country cannot possibly reach. Adding more taxes to Americans now is probably the worst thing that could happen to an already spiraling economy.

Seemingly everyone in this thread seems to be saying that they would do that if it benefit the country but I'm amazed that people still trust the people in power who keep passing garbage bills that do nothing but spend more of Americans dollars that they "hope" to get the tax money from.

 

[ALeperMessiah]

I think you should go to a local council meeting and find out. If you know nothing about local government or local economics as it pertains to your city, we don't really have anything to talk about.

a lot of cities are turning paved roads into gravel because they can't afford the upkeep. laying off firefighters and police.

then again, if you live in...fucking Orange county...perhaps your city isn't struggling like so many others.

This is true, but raising taxes isn't a panacea. It won't make 'painful cuts' go away. Sure they'll get a short-term boost from the unexpected income. But once it's baked into the budget and the economy improves it's impact will be negligible. Then, next time the economy dips the gov't will be in the same spot, but will have one less arrow in the quiver to pull their ass out of the fire.

 

[water_wendi]

Doesn't mean they still don't employ a ton of people.

i would not be surprised in the slightest that if more than 90% of all the sellers on Pricewatch had less than 5 employees. i have friends that do such things and its a one man show. There are no employees or stock or inventory or warehouses. Just an office address, an internet connection and thats it. Sure they make a grip of cash but it is not healthy in any way for the community and having seen how things work nobody will ever be able to convince me otherwise. All this damage for what? For a customer to save $5 on their video card purchase?

And you cant say this only damages mom and pop stores. They were the canary in the coal mine.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

What's the basis for this? I mean, how is the government getting money from you? No wonder you're so heavily opposed to this :lol

here the top tax rate is 52% on income and 19.5 VAT on goods.

but it's not really bad. I have more than enough disposable income and 6 weeks paid vacation a year and I'm safe if I get sick etc.

How does your state... .exist? Is it rich off some kind of natural resource or what?

He lives in Delaware, ie incorporation junction. I mean otherwise Delaware just hangs off PA's taint. :lol j/k

 

[Pctx]

What's the basis for this? I mean, how is the government getting money from you? No wonder you're so heavily opposed to this :lol

here the top tax rate is 52% on income and 19.5 VAT on goods.

but it's not really bad. I have more than enough disposable income and 6 weeks paid vacation a year and I'm safe if I get sick etc.

How does your state... .exist? Is it rich off some kind of natural resource or what?

Two things:
Property taxes
Income Tax

Those two things generally scare people and businesses from moving here or opening shop.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

i would not be surprised in the slightest that if more than 90% of all the sellers on Pricewatch had less than 5 employees. i have friends that do such things and its a one man show. There are no employees or stock or inventory or warehouses. Just an office address, an internet connection and thats it. Sure they make a grip of cash but it is not healthy in any way for the community and having seen how things work nobody will ever be able to convince me otherwise. All this damage for what? For a customer to save $5 on their video card purchase?

And you cant say this only damages mom and pop stores. They were the canary in the coal mine.

Yeah, random crap places, but not something like Amazon.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

cool. yea, my girlfriend works in local government and she's seen the budgets some of these cities are working with.

many cities are bleeding money because:

-Shrinking citizen tax bases: this means loss of property tax, taxes that come from utilities and services, tax from you filling up at the local gas station, tax from you buying shit in town.

-Shrinking business tax bases: business moving out means loss of the various payroll and other taxes business pay. It also means lack of employment opportunities for residents...who can no longer pay any meaningful amount of taxes.

It's really a mess in a lot of cities right now.

Planning economic development in local communities is tough. Old cities being the most vulnerable right now.

 

[Haly]

Yay New York, this would effect me not at all!

 

[ALeperMessiah]

i would not be surprised in the slightest that if more than 90% of all the sellers on Pricewatch had less than 5 employees. i have friends that do such things and its a one man show. There are no employees or stock or inventory or warehouses. Just an office address, an internet connection and thats it. Sure they make a grip of cash but it is not healthy in any way for the community and having seen how things work nobody will ever be able to convince me otherwise. All this damage for what? For a customer to save $5 on their video card purchase?

And you cant say this only damages mom and pop stores. They were the canary in the coal mine.

Those people pay income taxes don't they? I'd say that's healthy for their community.

 

[JesseZao]

cool. yea, my girlfriend works in local government and she's seen the budgets some of these cities are working with.

many cities are bleeding money because:

-Shrinking citizen tax bases: this means loss of property tax, taxes that come from utilities and services, tax from you filling up at the local gas station, tax from you buying shit in town.

-Shrinking business tax bases: business moving out means loss of the various payroll and other taxes business pay. It also means lack of employment opportunities for residents...who can no longer pay any meaningful amount of taxes.

It's really a mess in a lot of cities right now.

Planning economic development in local communities is tough. Old cities being the most vulnerable right now.

Maybe the town sucks? I can't see how the internet is the cause for people leaving rural areas or small towns of a few hundred to a thousand people. Are you suggesting we need a stimulus package to bailout the "country" folk?

City Slickers just have more fun.

 

[Pctx]

cool. yea, my girlfriend works in local government and she's seen the budgets some of these cities are working with.

many cities are bleeding money because:

-Shrinking citizen tax bases: this means loss of property tax, taxes that come from utilities and services, tax from you filling up at the local gas station, tax from you buying shit in town.

-Shrinking business tax bases: business moving out means loss of the various payroll and other taxes business pay. It also means lack of employment opportunities for residents...who can no longer pay any meaningful amount of taxes.

It's really a mess in a lot of cities right now.

Planning economic development in local communities is tough. Old cities being the most vulnerable right now.

Exactly... And why? Jobs or lack of them. The budgets are breaking because the jobs and taxes are shrinking. This is why California is hurting so badly.

 

[Jeels]

I love my Amazon.

But I believe we need to start taxing more to alleviate all these budget problems.

Decisions decisions.

 

[SlipperySlope]

But additional revenue for the state would mean less budget cuts, and as a result, less tuition hikes compensating for budget crisises.

I honestly don't really mind tuition hikes. IMO you should pay for the services you use, and college students are definitely using the school's services. I think all colleges should get to the point where they are no longer subsidized.

And if you don't like your tuition, you're free to go to a different school in most cases.

I may be sounding insensitive, but that's just how I feel. I think nearly all subsidies should be abolished.

 

[Captain Sparrow]

i would not be surprised in the slightest that if more than 90% of all the sellers on Pricewatch had less than 5 employees. i have friends that do such things and its a one man show. There are no employees or stock or inventory or warehouses. Just an office address, an internet connection and thats it. Sure they make a grip of cash but it is not healthy in any way for the community and having seen how things work nobody will ever be able to convince me otherwise. All this damage for what? For a customer to save $5 on their video card purchase?

And you cant say this only damages mom and pop stores. They were the canary in the coal mine.

Not only that, but pretty much every "get rich quick working from home" involves internet sales. "No employees, no inventory, just cash in your pocket". Somehow people can argue that this shouldn't be taxed? There is no way our country could survive on such a model.

 

[The Faceless Master]

wtf America doesn't pay tax if you buy off internet? :lol

seems like putting sales tax on internet stuff might be a good way to start digging yourselves out of that massive hole.

EDIT: this really blows my mind that you don't pay tax on internet purchases. I do most of my shopping straight off internet these days, if I was saving 20% VAT everytime I did it. Holy fuck I would have been straight digital person years ago.

how it works is like this: a company only charges tax if they have a presence in that state, they don't charge tax for out of state purchasers.

so, for example, Newegg.com only charges tax to people in California, where they are based, and Tennessee and New Jersey, where they have shipping centers.

when people in any other state order, Newegg doesn't collect sales tax on the purchases.

 

[water_wendi]

Those people pay income taxes don't they? I'd say that's healthy for their community.

The point is when entire industries shift to lower overhead models to make a couple more bucks, lower overhead means less people working. So instead of 34,000 people paying income tax (Circuit City) you have 15,000 people paying income tax (Amazon).

 

[JesseZao]

The point is when entire industries shift to lower overhead models to make a couple more bucks, lower overhead means less people working. So instead of 34,000 people paying income tax (Circuit City) you have 15,000 people paying income tax (Amazon).

All them newfangled automobeelz transportin' goods. Now us horse riders are out of a job

 

[The Faceless Master]

Not only that, but pretty much every "get rich quick working from home" involves internet sales. "No employees, no inventory, just cash in your pocket". Somehow people can argue that this shouldn't be taxed? There is no way our country could survive on such a model.

Income Tax?

The point is when entire industries shift to lower overhead models to make a couple more bucks, lower overhead means less people working. So instead of 34,000 people paying income tax (Circuit City) you have 15,000 people paying income tax (Amazon).

so, efficiency is bad? is Best Buy about to fail?

 

[GhaleonQ]

The point is when entire industries shift to lower overhead models to make a couple more bucks, lower overhead means less people working. So instead of 34,000 people paying income tax (Circuit City) you have 15,000 people paying income tax (Amazon).

Moreover, that's fine in principle, but in most situations, increased efficiency benefits the economy more than employment. Does anyone know of any white papers studying this? I highly doubt it's a net benefit.

 

[Particle Physicist]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20009603-38.html



How do you feel?

Personally, I think this NEEDS to pass. I'm against new taxes more than anyone else but, this is not a new tax. To get this country back on the path it needs to be, the states can't have budget deficits. Not only do we need jobs like teachers and police officers to make our cities better places, but by them having money, they are able to put it back into our economy.

Also, I feel it will also help local economies by bringing jobs back to retail. I personally know lots of people that shop online mostly because they can evade the sales tax. Retail employees work hard and how many of them have had their positions (full time, supervisor, etc) cut because of what the internet did.

The argument that this is too complicated is complete BS. Look at what technology can do. Where have we been limited before? This is Amazon and eBay talking. If a small business cannot survive because of having to pay sales tax, then they don't deserve to be around. Why should we give online businesses the unfair advantage. Are we doing the same for local businesses that have been hurting?

This would end up costing me like $10 more a year. I know the benefits will be much higher. I know we all want to save $1 here and $1 here, but there consequences. The internet is to blame for a good chunk of this crisis, and we need to stop letting it run amok and destroying everything we have known.

Nice misleading title. It sounds like One democrat is attempting this.. or rather, has been attempting this for a while now and keeps failing:

The final version of Delahunt's legislation had not yet been made public on Friday, and his office did not immediately respond to queries from CNET. But it's expected to be similar to other versions he's introduced before.

This is hardly a new debate: pro-tax officials and state governments have been pressing Congress to require taxes to be collected for a decade or so. They argue that reduced sales tax revenue threatens budgets for schools and police, and say that, as a matter of fairness, online retailers should be forced to collect the same taxes that brick-and-mortar retailers do.

But with states scrambling for new sources of revenue during what may be a double-dip recession, pro-tax lobbyists are hoping that they'll have better luck this year.

your selective bolding is also a bit misleading. yay!

 

[SlipperySlope]

The point is when entire industries shift to lower overhead models to make a couple more bucks, lower overhead means less people working. So instead of 34,000 people paying income tax (Circuit City) you have 15,000 people paying income tax (Amazon).

Increased efficiency is a good thing. It leads to lower prices. If we didn't have increased efficiency, we'd all be working on the farms like our grandparents did. And be poor as dirt.

I'm sorry, but I'll never follow the increased productivity is bad idea.