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Denis Dyack in 1up yours. NeoGAF is "hurting society," justifies having it shut down
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captscience
Member
AstroLad said:
I'm not sure I'd take it quite that far, but for those completely dismissing your point I think are greatly underestimating the influence that internet discussion holds on society, and especially a closed culture like video gaming where a vast majority of enthusiasts are internet users.
The active posters here on GAF are the taste makers for the hardcore video game buying populace. We make fun of blogs and sites that pick up stories from here, but it just goes to show how quickly information disseminates from these boards, information that inevitable spreads to employees of stores who then carry that information directly to consumers.
Mr. Dyack is completely correct in his analysis that the internet is now indeed serious business. His mistake is that he isn't heeding his own advice. For him to think that he can somehow exercise his position into changing the way internet discussions function is pure hubris and folly. He's successfully identified perhaps the most powerful marketing tool today, then promptly stabbed himself with it.
PistolGrip said:
The whole thing just seemed like a big act to me. I like how he plays up to how remorseful he felt for ''correcting'' kittowny. I read that thread and the Dyack that posted there and appeared on 1up yours don't particularly match. I can understand if after the whole incident he had undergone some kind of change because of the remorse. Though he hasn't.
JzeroT1437
Member
Somebody should sue those MST3k guys for making fun of shitty movies. They might have been each individually rated the worst films of all time by several different critics and viewers, but we all know that viewer and critical opinions don't matter! How dare they make fun of shitty movies!
Somebody needs to learn to tolerate when his product turns out to look like crap. The internet has an influence over society, but forums aren't the biggest contributor to this. I'd say the "ease of communication" via e-mail and the oversaturation of information produced on news sites is damaging society far more than forums. I'd say a general over-reliance on review scores is also hurtful. But discussing things is not harmful.
And GAF does have a direct influence over companies. Six months ago I gave Capcom the idea for Mega Man 9--right down to its artistic design style. Really. Check out the link in my tag.
Somebody needs to learn to tolerate when his product turns out to look like crap. The internet has an influence over society, but forums aren't the biggest contributor to this. I'd say the "ease of communication" via e-mail and the oversaturation of information produced on news sites is damaging society far more than forums. I'd say a general over-reliance on review scores is also hurtful. But discussing things is not harmful.
And GAF does have a direct influence over companies. Six months ago I gave Capcom the idea for Mega Man 9--right down to its artistic design style. Really. Check out the link in my tag.
Having only looked at the OP seems like Dyack is, as usual, greatly exaggerating with the broad strokes but on the finer points, I'd tend to agree. Sorry, Denis, I'm not really worried about GAF tearing itself apart or the fabric of gaming society at large. But I do agree that this place tends to pick certain games to pre-judge and overreact about, positively or negatively, and then has trouble backing down from the stance taken once the final game is available and objective reality doesn't quite jive with the early pre-judged stance. But that's hardly an "internet" phenomena, so hardly an accusation to level at NeoGAF specifically, above others.
POWERSPHERE
Member
It's all a very sad waste of time...
mambadragon
Banned
I think the reason Denis finds no good from posting on Neogaf is because the man seems to have no desire to have discussions, instead just wanting to lecture people. Yes there are the gifs and such that we use for laughter, but there's always good criticism in threads from the most hardcore of gamers. To ignore that criticism is moronic (just as it would be stupid to totally rely on it), we're free focus testing pawns that are actually informed. You'd think directors/producers, who tend to be perfectonists, would kill for critiques from us, especially when they're making a hardcore loot-whore dungeon crawler with a nerdy scifi theme.
Shane: "The fact that anyone thought is just as valid as anyone else's thought is damaging."
WTF? Go to China then.
Shane: "The fact that anyone thought is just as valid as anyone else's thought is damaging."
WTF? Go to China then.
Operations
Member
Current previews rule it out as a critical smash. I think it will fall somewhere in between.Mooreberg said:
RedNumberFive
Banned
Wow, just finished listening and I can't believe this guy. All he did was talk circles around the fact that his game, based on previews, seems mediocre at best. Name dropping book titles doesn't explain for the fact that the animation in this game looks to be of very poor quality. I don't even need to play the game to see this. Regardless, I was very curious about the game before, now thanks to Denis's ego, I'd rather just skip it entirely. There are more than enough games coming out soon as it is.
mambadragon
Banned
If someone could make a gif redoing the scene from Annie Hall when that guy in the movie line is talking about Marshall Mcluhan and Mcluhan comes in and says "you know nothing of my work", replacing the guy with Dyack, Woody Allen with Garnett, and Mcluhan with Peter Drucker it would be perfect.
http://blogs.ign.com/Bozon-IGN/2008/07/07/95053/
Bozon has impressions ("20 hours in"?!?) but I'm blocked at work. Anyone provide the gist?
Bozon has impressions ("20 hours in"?!?) but I'm blocked at work. Anyone provide the gist?
eznark said:
20 hours in.. seems to like it quite a bit as a fan of dungeon crawlers (and specifically mentions Diablo).
Not perfect.
Feels like he's just scratching the surface and plans to keep playin. Still hasn't tried 2 classes or the co-op.
Estimates ~15 hr (story) playthrough for people doing standard exploration.
crowphoenix
Banned
andydumi said:
Good. As long as the game play is good, I imagine I will enjoy it.
Just finished listening, now it's time to spout my uneducated opinion...
I agree with a lot of what Denis said, and just like his 1 console future talks, he brings up a utopia scenario that would be nice, but likely would never happen! His idea is basically that Neogaf could thrive and become a place where real credible game discussions occur that rival the quality of the editorial content of IGN/1up or other real news sites rather than the juvenile discussions that typically occur (not that quality discussions don't occur, but they are few and far between).
This is definitely a good idea, and something that would be awesome, if it existed, but currently it doesn't exist, and Dyack is certainly mistaken if he's expecting this kind of reform from Neogaf. He's essentially suggesting that Digg should be more like Slashdot. What he's missing is that Digg is much more popular than Slashdot, just as Neogaf is much more popular than whatever gaming site he wants it to be.
I agree with a lot of what Denis said, and just like his 1 console future talks, he brings up a utopia scenario that would be nice, but likely would never happen! His idea is basically that Neogaf could thrive and become a place where real credible game discussions occur that rival the quality of the editorial content of IGN/1up or other real news sites rather than the juvenile discussions that typically occur (not that quality discussions don't occur, but they are few and far between).
This is definitely a good idea, and something that would be awesome, if it existed, but currently it doesn't exist, and Dyack is certainly mistaken if he's expecting this kind of reform from Neogaf. He's essentially suggesting that Digg should be more like Slashdot. What he's missing is that Digg is much more popular than Slashdot, just as Neogaf is much more popular than whatever gaming site he wants it to be.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
This thread will have more posts than an Official Too Human thread*
*as long as this thread doesn't get locked...
*as long as this thread doesn't get locked...
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
I'm listening to the podcast again, and I'm wondering--where the fuck is the demo?
tetrisgrammaton
Member
too human shows poorly at E3, denis complains that previews of builds need to stop, industry needs to change.
denis predicts too human will receive low scores, complains that giving scores to games needs to stop, industry needs change.
too human threads on neogaf are filled with page after page of trolling, denis complains that message boards need drastic reform, industry needs change.
:lol
denis predicts too human will receive low scores, complains that giving scores to games needs to stop, industry needs change.
too human threads on neogaf are filled with page after page of trolling, denis complains that message boards need drastic reform, industry needs change.
:lol
Heh, I had no real idea about this game before the whole BS started on these forums, because it's totally outside my sphere of interest in the gaming world, but Dyack's railing on NeoGAF because of its criticism of it has piqued my interest. Like they say, "no press is bad press".
He is a bit right when NeoGAF goes on and on attacking non-playable previews of games for the silliest, most niggling issues, though I'm guilty of that myself a little bit.
He is a bit right when NeoGAF goes on and on attacking non-playable previews of games for the silliest, most niggling issues, though I'm guilty of that myself a little bit.
Dyack is shooting himself in the foot here. By all accounts, Too Human is pretty much the most expensive game ever made, maybe save for a few others. Given that, I think it's going to have a tough time getting a positive return seeing the negative hype around it, and how it doesn't look to be a critical success. In either case, I doubt anyone ever again hands Dyack a major project. Much too big of a risk.
Speak of the devil. Matt C. has gone and made his own blog post about what he thinks of Too Human as well: http://blogs.ign.com/Matt-IGN/2008/07/07/95058/
eznark said:
I think thats a good point. It wont be a bad game. But if its just on OK game, and plagued with some issues (the stuff people are already pointing out from previews) then it may suffer and Assasins Creed fate of averageness in scores and quality and sales, despite being mega hyped and expensive.
eznark said:
Too many people bought and resold the game. I'm running a bachelor party this week and figured to get rid of some games for more booze money.
Bioshock - $11
Mass Effect - $7
AC - $2 WTF?!?!
Girl told me they had about 50 used copies of AC in the back.
Needless to say I just kept the games....
Back on topic, either of the new "bias" reviews give impressions for MP??
It received a considerable amount of negativity after that E3 demo with all the graphical glitches and the first time anyone saw the Matrix-y effects on targeted enemies.ggnoobIGN said:
I'm sure if Jade Raymond had been on 1Up Yours spouting bullshit about how people shouldn't base their opinions on previews, the negativity would've never ended.
(Well, then again, maybe not. Lots of gamers seem to have a fetish for her.)
Pristine_Condition
Member
Just finished listening.
Garnett gets a few props from me.
Shane comes off as a fucking weak yes-man. I've totally lost respect for him as a voice for gaming culture.
The rest of the guys aren't even there. Nice work fellas. Way to participate.
Denis is just the same old Denis he was in March 2007, when he was pulling the same old "I'm so much better than you" stuff on NeoGAF. I said everything I wanted to say to him, directly to him, way back then, so I'll leave it at that.
If anybody cares:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5775057&postcount=158
...once I had guys like Prine calling me a dickhead for that post, I knew I was on to something.
Garnett gets a few props from me.
Shane comes off as a fucking weak yes-man. I've totally lost respect for him as a voice for gaming culture.
The rest of the guys aren't even there. Nice work fellas. Way to participate.
Denis is just the same old Denis he was in March 2007, when he was pulling the same old "I'm so much better than you" stuff on NeoGAF. I said everything I wanted to say to him, directly to him, way back then, so I'll leave it at that.
If anybody cares:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5775057&postcount=158
...once I had guys like Prine calling me a dickhead for that post, I knew I was on to something.
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