Destiny 2 PC Aim Assist Needs to be FIXED
- Thread starter Strakt
- Start date
I recognize that, but it's not really the cheating that is the root of all the noise on reddit... It started off with KBM purists complaining about aim assist on PC for controllers.
Give mouse and keyboard aim assist natively. That should satisfy everyone.
LOL
why are you bringing 4chan/reddit bullshit to a neogaf thread actually trying to be constructive then?
It's here too.... This is the elitist BS I'm talking about.
Edit: I'd bet there is a way to detect XIM users by analyzing movement input patterns. WASD movement is going to look different than an analog stick.
Eww.
Its true though, At some point people have to realize they aren't the best at every game, and the game doesn't have a responsibility to make them feel like they're good at it. If you can't help but shit post in a tech thread, and can only point to meta commentary then you should start a thread about that. This thread is about how Aim assist is negatively affecting the PVP community for Destiny 2. The thread doesn't even care about the main meat of the game in the PVE. Yet here you and others are talking about PC eltism.
Eclectic Sk3ptic
Member
We agree it's been proven the issue exists. There is potential for cheating in Destiny 2 PC. But, please educate me (with data), as to why you're convinced that it is in fact reasonable to expect that the KB+M cheaters using auto-aim will "ruin" the experience for a statistically relevant portion of the user base. You see, I remain unconvinced either way, but I am interested in learning whether there is such data to support your side of the dispute. The argument, thus far, seems to be based on emotion rather than fact as my brother-in-law so aptly illustrated during lunch today, and I quote "I've been dominating PvP, so I don't think cheating is a thing right now. That said, once I start losing I'll know it's because other people are using auto-aim and cheating."
I do, however, agree that higher frame rates do make the auto-aim feel a tad heavy-handed on PC. I would prefer if they toned it down to be perfectly honest.
From what I understand, since it's emulation, there will be no way to detect this. It will appear as controller input.
Also, stop focusing on posts you find non-constructive, and look at the ones that are.
We agree it's been proven the issue exists. There is potential for cheating in Destiny 2 PC. But, please educate me (with data), as to why you're convinced that it is in fact reasonable to expect that the KB+M cheaters using auto-aim will "ruin" the experience for a statistically relevant portion of the user base. You see, I remain unconvinced either way, but I am interested in learning whether there is such data to support your side of the dispute. The argument, thus far, seems to be based on emotion rather than fact as my brother-in-law so aptly illustrated during lunch today, and I quote "I've been dominating PvP, so I don't think cheating is a thing right now. That said, once I start losing I'll know it's because other people are using auto-aim and cheating."
I do, however, agree that higher frame rates do make the auto-aim feel a tad heavy-handed on PC. I would prefer if they toned it down to be perfectly honest.
Huh? Doesn't the question answer itself? KB + Mouse with Auto Aim will shit on the average KB + Mouse w/o AA and controller users. Its basically a user with the best of both worlds. KB + Mouse for precision, and controller for auto aim.
Kudo
Member
With the soft-cheat method is the mouse cursor still moving? I guess it isn't as the game fails to register that but only inputs the "controller" movement.
If it is, they could do that when keyboard inputs or cursor movement is detected it throws you to KBM mode and disables Aim Asssist. Also there needs to be bit of delay when switching controllers to eliminate people using them seamlessly somehow.
I thought this was about the cheating? Moving goal posts...
Wow at you defending that comment, my last response to you... its not about making people feel the best.. It's about allowing people to play the way they want. Without the cheating this is a non-issue, Bungie has balanced it very well by giving KBM minimal recoil and gamepads a bit of aim assist. I think it's wonderful.
I've always heard from dedicated KBM users that they would destroy gamepad users even with aim assist anyway (which is true if you are actually good with KBM).
On the surface it will but if you look at it, the movement is still going to be binary with only 8 directions on left stick because they are using WASD. I wouldn't rule out a smart algorithm detecting this.
We agree it's been proven the issue exists. There is potential for cheating in Destiny 2 PC. But, please educate me (with data), as to why you're convinced that it is in fact reasonable to expect that the KB+M cheaters using auto-aim will "ruin" the experience for a statistically relevant portion of the user base. You see, I remain unconvinced either way, but I am interested in learning whether there is such data to support your side of the dispute. The argument, thus far, seems to be based on emotion rather than fact as my brother-in-law so aptly illustrated during lunch today, and I quote "I've been dominating PvP, so I don't think cheating is a thing right now. That said, once I start losing I'll know it's because other people are using auto-aim and cheating."
I do, however, agree that higher frame rates do make the auto-aim feel a tad heavy-handed on PC. I would prefer if they toned it down to be perfectly honest.
This "problem" is for a specific subset, the competitive minded player in the PVP mode. This of course, isn't the majority of the player base, but it will be composed of the most "hardcore" destiny players. This specific subset is also the type to be prone to cheating due to their need to compete at the top. This is apparent if you play R6 Seige for more than 10 minutes and watch the banned notifications. Cheaters of all types are known to do almost anything to get the edge, including paying for hardware(lag switches) and hardware(aimbot and wallhacks). The XIM is already controversial for giving this same subset advantages over others on consoles, and now the much more open platform of PC has found a way to use that to an even worse effect.
This thread is the end result of that, and all the OP is saying is that something needs to happen before those who don't want to have to cheat to are pushed out by those who are resolved to win.
No shit. Just stop.
Eclectic Sk3ptic
Member
Yes, that's been established. But, how statistically prevalent are those users using auto-aim with KB+M setups? You seem to be convinced it's reasonable to expect it will be a widespread issue, and I'm wondering exactly why that is. I am not even disagreeing with you.
Thank you for your response. I have never played competitively on consoles, or PC, and I had no idea that cheating was quite that prevalent "at the top" as you put it. I'll never understand the competitive gaming mindset, but I suppose that explains the emotionally charged reactions I've witnessed all over the net, and in person with my brother-in-law today.
You should work for blizzard.
Kittehkraken
Member
Not sure if this is possible, but perhaps they could lock out/block the keyboard (or parts of it) during gameplay. If you select the option of using a controller the keyboard isn't necessary during the gameplay itself. The controller controls everything in the game perfectly fine. If you want your keyboard back, enter a menu screen (character or options) where it will unlock.
I find it hard to believe that they can''t detect keyboard inputs and block them. Even if the computer is saying its a controller, they are spamming WASD. A mouse is useless without a keyboard. Unless somebody uses the buttons on a high end mouse itself to move around...which I guess is possible.
I find it hard to believe that they can''t detect keyboard inputs and block them. Even if the computer is saying its a controller, they are spamming WASD. A mouse is useless without a keyboard. Unless somebody uses the buttons on a high end mouse itself to move around...which I guess is possible.
Because there a lot of people in the world who take advantages of exploits if it helps them win? They won't get banned for it because its not being injected into the game, they're simply emulating the controller onto their m/kb. Will every single game have a person using a m/kb with AA? Prob not. Its better to complain about it now while the game is in beta and still 2 months away from releasing then not talking about it at all.
Raylan Targaryen
Member
because people will spend money to give them an advantage? CSGO cheats can be thousands of dollars, at least the good ones.
A XIM4 is the next best thing while only being like $100. In fact it's probably better than buying cheats outright since you won't get banned
I mentioned this in the last big thread on XIM when I called out Sony or MS for not doing anything when they could. There's no reason they can't considering the devices of discussion themselves do it.
'
However the reason you're most likely not going to see them do this is it will eat CPU cycles and could add to input lag if not done right. That and they prefer the status quo to doing real work on the issue.
FutureProtagonist
Neo Member
The problem is that they have no way of knowing whether the input device is a controller or a keyboard if a user is emulating controller inputs. It will just look like a controller.
.... Who's shit posting again?
Good advice, gonna use that nice ignore feature.
It doesn't have to be done in real-time. Could be server side. Maybe they only do it for one in every 20 games or something so that it isn't crazy resource intensive on their side. Hell every 100+ games and they will still catch them, assuming it's possible.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
I totally vibe with this post from that thread
This really does feel weird on PC. I played a quickplay match earlier where we went 100-32, I did reasonably okay. I had a 1.8 kdr but everyone else on my team had 3.2 - 6.8.
6.8?!
WHAT?
I didn't think the enemy team was particularly bad either. They got a good amount of kills and had me running scared often. it's just that we had all 3 points for the bulk of the game so they earned like no points. Hell my 1.8 kdr was mostly because I'd pop a round in a guy and then he'd light me up so I'd go hide with my low HP and 1 second later some one else would swoop in and murder them.
I couldn't figure out if my team mates were actually that good or if they were playing with controllers either. I mean maybe they were THAT good but I'll actually never know.
This really does feel weird on PC. I played a quickplay match earlier where we went 100-32, I did reasonably okay. I had a 1.8 kdr but everyone else on my team had 3.2 - 6.8.
6.8?!
WHAT?
I didn't think the enemy team was particularly bad either. They got a good amount of kills and had me running scared often. it's just that we had all 3 points for the bulk of the game so they earned like no points. Hell my 1.8 kdr was mostly because I'd pop a round in a guy and then he'd light me up so I'd go hide with my low HP and 1 second later some one else would swoop in and murder them.
I couldn't figure out if my team mates were actually that good or if they were playing with controllers either. I mean maybe they were THAT good but I'll actually never know.
Kudo
Member
Not to brag or anything, but I had a match of 24 KDR.
Mouse and Keyboard, no aim assist. It's a beta, skill level varies a lot match to match as people are learning to play.
CuNi
Member
TBH I play with KM and we play in a 4 man pre-made.
If we happen to unfortunately get pitched against either 4 randoms without coordination or just a group of 4 friends playing for fun, it's a rare sight to see one of us drop below 5.0 .
Near as I can tell, their servers still do not handle player input data -- or rather, they don't deal with positional data in an authoritative sense (which would presumably contain things like a direction vector, but I don't *think* actual axis data or anything like that?). There are some authoritative aspects of their server (mission events, and even a physical constraint), but I don't think things are set up for them to be able to do this. Not in a timeframe that is going to work. I think we need to accept that this is Bungie we are talking about, and that means they will have a 100% on, or off, solution to this, and not something a bit more nuanced.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Ah, nah. I was just poking fun at the OP saying the world doesn't evolve around that persons enjoyment while making the case for something to be changed because of his enjoyment being affected. It was a light prod. I'm not getting D2 on PC so have no interest in what plays out there, the only point I have is that both the issue in the OP and the recoil differences between inputs should be looked at and not just the one affecting KB&M players negatively.
I had a 15 and 21 kda game yesterday, primarily because of how broken controllers are. Not cheats, just how powerful the autoaim is for tracking headshots.
Good luck beating an average controller user as an average KBM user atm, it's not going to happen when they are consistently locked onto your head.
Meme Master Flux
Member
Do it like Rockstar did it with GTAO, give separate servers for those who want aim assist and those who don't.
martino
Member
without data we will never know if it's a relevant proportion or not.
but yes we are weel aware the possibility is already irrelevant to you...
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Which is why it was a light hearted poke at the wording and not some character assassination.
Somewhat tangential to the topic, but I noticed that KBM is highly superior to gamepads in PvE. Even for someone like me who didn't grow up playing FPS on PC, crits are ridiculously easy to get on bosses, etc and certain weapons like the SMG are WAYY better on KBM due to the reduced recoil. Certain weapons just become so much more versatile without recoil, I'm curious how Bungie will balance stuff like raids for PC vs console. It's going to have to be different if they want to maintain consistent level of difficulty.
Eclectic Sk3ptic
Member
Thank you. It sounds like it is much more prevalent than I anticipated. That's a shame!
Definitely agreed on that. PvE is much more stationary enemies and the reduced recoil + faster turn of a mouse really helps for that.
we dont need data; there are assholes in the world and they cheat in every game.. its as simple as that.. dunno what you're arguing about and quoting my posts for.. thanks for your insightful response tho
Kittehkraken
Member
I get that the Keyboard is emulating the controller through software. But I find it hard to believe that somebody can't come up with a way of telling your PC to shut off your keyboard. Its listed as a Device in the Device Manager. If software turns off/blocks that device that your PC recognizes as a keyboard, how can you use it for emulation?
The external adapters I doubt you could do anything about. But isn't the biggest fear on PC this problem becoming rampant through simple software emulation you can download? Find a way of turning off the keyboard and that side of the exploit is no longer a problem.
Can people who do this aim as fast and accurately as normal m/kb users? Any videos of this?
Do you not understand the importance of getting rid of an undetectable aimbot before it becomes the base level of competitive gameplay? Every other type of hack will be detectable, but this is about native support from windows, meaning bungie would have to edit the OS itself, which won't happen, see people talking about Overwatch. There is no way for you to get detected, so you have no risk on your account. This is going to open the door for many to grab the XIM just because it'll be easier than getting wrecked by the "top" players using it.
You're misunderstanding them. They're saying that players have already found way to connect the KBM to their PC as a controller, which gives the already super fast accuracy of KBm an even bigger advantage.
I've never heard of Titanfall 2 MKB players getting residual aim assist from the controller aim assist. This sounds squarely like a Bungie issue.
If they have to, they should force it so that you can't switch between MKB and controller input without a menu toggle.
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
That good old tug of war between a solid anti-cheat and "don't touch my shit". It's a tough one for sure, would you rather let some people exploit or sacrifice some element of privacy within the system files of your PC. Not specifically to this but it's an interesting discussion on its own.
it definitely happened in titanfall 1 on launch, and it was really bad during overwatch beta so much so that they disabled aim assist for controllers period to prevent people from spoofing controller play
I just used a controller for the hell of it.....oh my lord.....my pulse rifle never went anything but yellow....that shit not only locks....but stays tracking to the head in quite a fucking range.....you would have to be a literal fucking pro to match that on a keyboard and mouse for the micro movement to stay that accurate at times......the controller.....never leaves.....i even got into a strafe fight and knew the only reason I won....was because of the AA.
God......if this doesn't get removed, I actually would rather buy a XIM and own the fuck out of everyone because its an option
No average mouse and keyboard user can match some of the shit the AA does
God......if this doesn't get removed, I actually would rather buy a XIM and own the fuck out of everyone because its an option
No average mouse and keyboard user can match some of the shit the AA does
I have more than 1000 hours of Destiny on PS4 and played yesterday with the same friends that went to the Lighthouse with me multiple times. Our KD was higher than 6 in most of the matches. And I don't cheat and my friends don't either.
It's just experience + playing with KB+M
Hey someone that actually tried it and believes me. Play with MKB for a day of PvP and switch to controller, you basically have a laser locked on people's heads.
You dont even needa waste money on a xim bc theres a tutorial out there that lets you emulate a controller on ur m/kb
😀
oh.....I might have to look into these lol
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
Yeh, that's the discussion. People complain about others exploiting but then complain when an effective solution is implemented because it starts to need to delve into system files to better detect things. I think the case is different for it between DRM and Anticheat though.
I'm not sure how you best resolve it one way or the other which is why the topic is so interesting.