HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Control the company by not buying their product
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Destiny 2 Playerbase is reportedly mass refunding The Final Shape after Bungie layoffs
Timberwolf25
Gold Member
Seems like a lot of the big content creators are slamming them....Aztecross, Kackis, True Vanguard, etc. In addition, you got Gladd tweeting that he stopped being a primary Destiny 2 streamer at the right time and you can see how this might snowball for them.
They have a very loyal fanbase though, so it might take a while for that to happen if it happens at all. But this has the potential to get really ugly for them. I wouldn't be surprised if the next big layoff is the CEO...lol
They have a very loyal fanbase though, so it might take a while for that to happen if it happens at all. But this has the potential to get really ugly for them. I wouldn't be surprised if the next big layoff is the CEO...lol
Kerotan
Member
I've gotten thousands of hours out of games I've gotten for free like Warzone or rocket league. Doesn't mean I'm not getting insane value by spending under 300 for thousands of hours.Hahahaha bro the industry is making money over fist like all the companies have seen massive growth. Paying pennies for games cmon now
You dont need to spend 250€ to get 1000s hours out of a videogame
For you it maybe a value, but most people would disagree big time
I could pay €70 and feel very satisfied after platinuming say Spiderman 2 after 30 hours or God of War Ragnarok after 70 hours. You telling me €250 for over 2000 hours isn't good? Why kinda crazy beggers society do we live in.
MMaRsu
Member
Like you said, when you can get thousands of hours of enjoyment by playing games that are free, what is the benefit or value of me spending 300$ on a game that deleted my purchased content, and asks me to grind the game as if its my second job?
What does that have to do with beggars. That has to do with supply and demand (their supply of games vs my demand of what it offers and the free time I have to invest)
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nial
Gold Member
I was looking if someone posted this. Thank you.Hey OP,
Dirk Benedict
Member
Simple as that. Yet, many smooth ones continue to tow the line, and are unaware of their own power.
Kerotan
Member
Bruh if we all spent our time playing all our games for free this industry wouldn't exist.
My point is just because I can get equal time on other games like warzone or rocket league doesn't make it not worth it.
Otherwise how could you claim buying games such as God of war, ratchet, turismo, Tsushima, horizon. I bought All them full price played under 100 hours on each of them. So is that terrible value for money considering other free games gave me thousands of hours?
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MMaRsu
Member
Not really, have you not noticed the scummy monetization practices in free to play games? Every one of them has a battle pass and currency you can buy.
Thanks to the idiot whales, they fund the free games.
Im asking you what makes it worth it to spend that much money if you only have a limited amount of time and money to spend on shit you like?
The value is inherently what you give to it. For me, personally I wouldnt give a cent to Bungie. For you it could be great value, if you think its worth your time and money.
Im pretty sure it isnt though. Look at how real MMO's operate. They don't nickel and dime their players in such egregious ways as Destiny does it. Locking all the fun cosmetics behind even more expensive paywalls. They dont delete previous expansion content from the world. You dont lose shit you bought.
But they are getting there, WoW has been selling more and more cosmetics over the years. Its sad.
Used to be you get a cool reward for finishing a quest. Now the coolest rewards are only for fat whales paying over and over.
Im just sayin that 300$ probably could have been spent better and if you played other games in the meantime such as RL or Warzone, I doubt you"d feel left out in the end.
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Gojiira
Member
The only ‘crime’ Bungie has committed really is firing the fantastic composers, the rest are all low level staff quite frankly…Yes its a horrible thing, but they burnt through 1.2 Billion that was reserved for staff retention in less than a year so clearly theres bloat and huge mismanagement as well as unsustainable hiring that went on there so something had to give especially since they missed targets and have repeatedly failed to deliver anything compelling, of course players are leaving.
Im just hoping that maybe, finally the higher ups will start listening after this discourse.
Im just hoping that maybe, finally the higher ups will start listening after this discourse.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The goal of a company under capitalism is to make a profit.
Executives do layoffs to save on costs, and theoretically gain more profit.
If the ultimate result of layoffs is that the customer base revolts, reducing revenue enough so that profit is lost, then executives are less likely to do layoffs in the future because they don't want to risk losing more profit.
Embearded
Member
Because the product itself isn't worth it, yes. Then it's a statement about the products quality and the company can get some feedback from that.
Trying to reverse layoffs or change internal policies sounds stupid to me, unless we are talking about a toxic workplace.
DaedalusGrim
Banned
You do realise the argument you're making is essentially "i paid £50 for basically one raid and one strike but I've played them 500 times each so it's good value."
duck_sauce
Gold Member
...and in reality it is the employees who are getting fucked, not the management.
Freeman76
Member
Apologists never do mate
StueyDuck
Member
Lol...
Well I don't even play destiny 2 but you big tough boys stop paying salaries, that'll teach em
.Gamers rise up
Do you think there is someone at bungie twirling their long mustache and laughing maniacally as they slam a big red fired button over and over. They most likely hate that they have to get rid of staff
If you want to be an adult then you'd understand these issues are coming from problems in the world economy/capitalism itself, if you wanna "vote with your wallet" you should be voting for leaders who can fix things and Improve things so that bungie doesn't have to layoff staff to meet some revenue margins because the economy is at an all time low, that inflation isn't through the roof etc.
You would find the shareholders, see their other investments and hurt their other Companies with your wallet to protect bungie. But taking money away from bungie is just going to get more people fired you don't want to be fired.
The money people, just see the money go up so in their eyes the leadership at bungie is doing great, they wouldn't care if the company gets whittled down to 5 employees, as long as that revenue is up year over year, no one is going to care about the gamers on a forum
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Retaining talent in-house means you have them always available for your projects. Going with contract work means you’re at the mercy of their availability
There are trade-offs, both ways.
Shut0wen
Banned
Who would of thought bungie being with acti would of been better then this lmao
Hudo
Member
This. Destiny as a whole, was and is one of my biggest disappointments in gaming.
STARSBarry
Gold Member
Why are people in this thread getting upset that people are actioning their rights as consumers within a capitalist society when the people they buy the products from do something they don't like?
Do people not understand that's how captalism is supposed to work? If Bungie went under (they wont) because they got even less revenue, too bad, so sad, that's how a market works.
This is how consumers are supposed to take action, and people are getting upset when a handful do it, god this sounds like some propaganda if people are suggesting that you just let people keep your money and take their shitty product when they fuck up. No wonder checks and balances don't work if people get all hostile on behalf of a corp when a few people ask for a refund.
Do people not understand that's how captalism is supposed to work? If Bungie went under (they wont) because they got even less revenue, too bad, so sad, that's how a market works.
This is how consumers are supposed to take action, and people are getting upset when a handful do it, god this sounds like some propaganda if people are suggesting that you just let people keep your money and take their shitty product when they fuck up. No wonder checks and balances don't work if people get all hostile on behalf of a corp when a few people ask for a refund.
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FUBARx89
Member
What I love is these are the very same people who go "they don't care about you and you shouldn't care about them" when other people are moaning about Bungie not listening to fans, now they're all up in arms cause people have been laid off and suddenly everyone should care about them.
It's shit they've been laid off, more so when it's getting to Christmas time, but it is what is. That's just the nature of a buisness.
It's shit they've been laid off, more so when it's getting to Christmas time, but it is what is. That's just the nature of a buisness.
Timberwolf25
Gold Member
If they missed their projected revenue by 45%, it means a hell of a lot more players have already quit, haven't bought their expansions, seasons or mtx cosmetics from Eververse.
More people cancelling their preorders at this point in addition to a lot of the biggest Destiny 2 content creators calling them out recently is even worse. Kackis, Aztecross, True Vanguard to name just a few, all have vids saying how scummy this was.
More people cancelling their preorders at this point in addition to a lot of the biggest Destiny 2 content creators calling them out recently is even worse. Kackis, Aztecross, True Vanguard to name just a few, all have vids saying how scummy this was.
Mortisfacio
Member
"We feel bad people lost their job, so we're refunding the game so more people can lose their jobs"
These people, man... No brain cells.
These people, man... No brain cells.
Kerotan
Member
Let's clear a few things up.
After spending thousands of hours in destiny I've never bought a single micro transaction and I've done absolutely everything on the game. You don't need to buy anything other then the actual content. Leave the cosmetics to those who are whales like you say.
Secondly if you won't be putting in a thousand plus hours into Destiny you should not be buying these new expansions every year. Play them when they go free on ps plus or on sale for 15 euro. For the particular season you Will be playing buy the season pass and you'll have a crazy amount of content to get through in a short period.
As regards spending my money better I've spent 300 or less in Destiny over like 5 year's. That's about 60 quid a year. Less then those buying cod or FIFA yearly. Most gamers have that one title they invest heavily in over a few years be it GTA, cod, FIFA, destiny etc etc.
You're telling me I could spend my time differently when over those same years I've also spent 4000 hours on warzone and played many other titles. This year for example I'll complete over 60 games and platinum over 40 of them. A combination of backlog games, ps plus/premium, old ps3 backlog games etc.
I know people who are not like me all they play is Destiny and buying that complete edition expansion yearly is the best value they ever spend. People need to start realising a series like destiny is incredible value for many.
Kerotan
Member
If you think all you get in a year of destiny is 1 raid and 1 strike you clearly don't play the series.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
imagine definitely
this ain't chief
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Via TheGamePost, not Gamespot.
DaedalusGrim
Banned
Unfortunately I do, I've played quite a bit, and you don't get the entire year for the price of one expansion either so I'm not sure what that line of thinking is about.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Yong talks in detail about Bungie's stupidity in dealing with D2 decisions.
Mortisfacio
Member
Pretty much. Costs go up, revenue goes down, you have to figure out how to cut costs and/or increase revenue. For most companies, majority of their budget is wages. Companies can't function on moral high ground unless that comes with higher revenue.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Problem with Bungie whether it's 45% missing forecasts or any Reddit protest group etc.... is that they are an all or nothing Destiny company. If Destiny is kicking ass, the gravy train gets tastier. When Destiny falls flat they got nothing else to help absorb the punch.
How many other big video game companies miss forecasts by 45%? They dont because their sales are spread out, so even if one huge gainer or tanker will be partially blended out by the other products performing average or slightly up or down.
But good on Bungie management for selling to Sony for $3.6 billion. They sold at the top (covid tech peak). Yet the company is in free fall mode 18 months later in sales, games delayed, content delayed, needing to fire 8% of people.
How many other big video game companies miss forecasts by 45%? They dont because their sales are spread out, so even if one huge gainer or tanker will be partially blended out by the other products performing average or slightly up or down.
But good on Bungie management for selling to Sony for $3.6 billion. They sold at the top (covid tech peak). Yet the company is in free fall mode 18 months later in sales, games delayed, content delayed, needing to fire 8% of people.
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lordarchaon666
Member
I can't believe this is what broke people on Destiny 2 and not the whole "we're removing whole chapters of our story from our story driven game because we can't be bothered to make the game work properly" and then several months later "we got the game working, but we're still not giving you the content you bought back."
DaedalusGrim
Banned
We've been paying more money for less content, so no.
Kerotan
Member
$100 you get the expansion, 4 season passes, 2 raids and two dungeon's with the key.
DaedalusGrim
Banned
Which is double the price of the actual expansion that we're talking about.
I swear some destiny players will bend over backwards to defend this nonsense.
Kerotan
Member
The expansion is seperate and includes 2 raids. The season passes are seperate content and worth the price. The only argument you can make is selling the dungeon's separately but if you buy the ultimate edition for the seasons they're included anyway.
The bottom line is whether or not you'll spend hundreds or thousands of hours playing. If you're the type of person to just breeze through the campaign destiny Day 1 isn't for you.
Most people I've seen fall off the series played it for years already and naturally they'll eventually get bored and move to other games. After the next expansion it will be my turn. Even this season I'm only about 60 on the pass so I'm already winding down.
Timberwolf25
Gold Member
$100 is more than full standalone AAA games and yet they still charge mtx on top of that.
How can they justify that price when a lot of the content in the expansions are reused assets and not created from scratch?
On top of that, they actually take away content via vaulting because they need you to be on that continual grind.
What other company could do this and get away with it?
DrFigs
Member
Yeah totally. But how is Bungie supposed to pay the employees they have if people are boycotting their games. You see how this is a counterproductive protest right? Almost like boycotting a company laying off people is kind of silly.
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STARSBarry
Gold Member
Sunk cost fallacy, and to avoid reflecting will say something like "I got my moneys worth with 1000+ hours" while most of that time was doing repetitive tasks for daily/weekly rewards that are only their to keep you on the treadmill and make sure its time and not just money invested.
This is well documented psychology, and Bungie still has an entire team of people on payroll who are experts in this.
Dirk Benedict
Member
I am sure we meant in general. Doing the research and delving into how good the game measures up to expectations, then closing the wallet down as a reaction, should the problems be far and wide. If a game has Denuvo? It's a factor. Game breaking bugs at launch; Crash to desktop? Factors. Shitty story/writing? Empty Worlds? Repetitiveness?
I don't protest games, anymore. I just don't buy what I feel is a ripoff and, seeing as I am human, once in a great while, I am wrong when I buy. Mass Effect Andromeda comes to mind. Some of these companies need to reassess the market, as well as look inward at their management. I remember seeing a video where one of the main creators of Fallout series was talking a little smack while also comparing his old methods of game creations(assigning duties as a checklist for the day) When attempting to introduce this approach to a younger crowd, he was met with resistance, as if they had a fucking choice.
I think I am starting to understand why, at least some games have so many problems at launch. Example: 2-4 weeks to implement a fucking animation....LOL.
Lucie Goosey
Member
No offense, but that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Layoffs don't only happen to help generate profit.
Forget this capitalism bullshit talk.
The normal, healthy goal of every business and individual is to survive. If you are spending more money then you make, and you don't have significant savings, than you are dying, either very quickly or more slowly. But the savings only help you die less slowly.
The reason they lay off employees is because they are the biggest expense, and one of the best ways to stem financial blood loss until they can figure out how to change course, and generate more income than they're losing.
If Bungie were to rehire because people are boycotting them, then they'll continue to lose money and head towards either bankruptcy or death.
If the business is perceived as dying, shareholders will panic sell, and the company will lose even more value.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
If that's the dumbest thing you've ever heard then so is what you wrote because we're talking about the same revenue/expense/profit matrix here as it relates to a company's outlook.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Just the final straw in a multitude of bad decisions. People have a real opportunity here to bring Bungie to their knees by not supporting The Final Shape. Just watch it on Youtube.
DaedalusGrim
Banned
The expansion did not have two fuckin raids what crack are you smoking rn?
DaedalusGrim
Banned
I mean the post itself is just straight cap. He's trying to pass seasonal content as part of the expansion and that's just not the fuckin case.