Support NeoGAF

[E92 M3]

So I remember VOG was an amazing experience my first 3-4 times through. So many helpful people. Everyone was so nice. Really gave me inspiration to help a lot of lower ranked people get through it.

This new raid had been something else. The final Crota fight has been a nightmare.
Can't keep a group together, everyone complains, has no patience. Bails.

Its not easy to cheese Crota, I was online last night with 3 different groups for over three hours trying to cheese him. It takes time, because if you mess up, you have to do a lot to get back to the beginning.

I'm tired man. When I get off work, I know I will try again, ill just say this.

Trying to find people to play this game is such a chore, there has to be a better way than hitting up forums to get a group together. Its so frustrating team begging for 3 hours. I really hate that aspect of the game.

It's much easier to kill him rather than cheese, but yes finding a group on LFG can be a real pain in the butt.

Had a friend stay the night yesterday and when I wake up today I find he has leveled my Warlock three levels for me.
Can I get a live in Destiny grinder? It feels like a Christmas surprise, haha.

Haha - that reminds me back in the day when I slept over my friends house, he'd always wake up to me killing it in Halo 2. He was good, but I was still padding his stats in rumble lol.

 

[EL CUCO]

So I remember VOG was an amazing experience my first 3-4 times through. So many helpful people. Everyone was so nice. Really gave me inspiration to help a lot of lower ranked people get through it.

This new raid had been something else. The final Crota fight has been a nightmare.
Can't keep a group together, everyone complains, has no patience. Bails.

Its not easy to cheese Crota, I was online last night with 3 different groups for over three hours trying to cheese him. It takes time, because if you mess up, you have to do a lot to get back to the beginning.

I'm tired man. When I get off work, I know I will try again, ill just say this.

Trying to find people to play this game is such a chore, there has to be a better way than hitting up forums to get a group together. Its so frustrating team begging for 3 hours. I really hate that aspect of the game.

I feel you, man. Try to find yourself a core team of people to play with, whether it be Raids or Nightfall...etc. You're always going to have people that can't make it but as long as you have a group of people you play with on a regular, it makes things much easier.

 

[Iceman829]

This game just dropped 2 husk of the pit off back to back kills... I don't understand it

 

[Sullichin]

Except for new TBD blues I have yet to see an IB weapon drop this week in several hours of play. Last time I saw bunches. It might just be RNG but I sure would like a shiny new Timur's Lash!

In other news one of my buddies got a new Fusion rifle with the highest charge rate that I have ever seen (and it also has accelerated coils!). As soon as it dropped (and this was in IB, mind you) he started using it and was absolutely wrecking with it. Like 20+ kills a game for three games in a row. And it was 248 attack.

We have come to the conclusion that levels and gear don't really matter in IB as much as Bungie would like us to think it does.

I got the updated Gheleon's Demise from this IB but it's the only IB weapon I've seen drop so far.

 

[phen0m24]

I see, I will remember this day

LOL now that's funny

 

[Hawkian]

I have a light beware that has a charge rate and ROF that's just as fast. Unfortunately it's a 300 cap weapon. What makes plan C so deadly is its charge rate is almost as fast as this but has ridiculous range and impact. Hard to find a fusion rifle with both fast charge rate and high range and impact

Your Light/Beware must be with using Accelerated Coils? I've got one and the base charge rate is quick as hell but definitely slower than LotA.

Plan C is just excellent in every category, it's a best-in-class fusion and a worthy Exotic. The unique perk is crazy, feels like I need a shower any time it gets me a kill in the Crucible.

 

[nowai]

Except for new TBD blues I have yet to see an IB weapon drop this week in several hours of play. Last time I saw bunches. It might just be RNG but I sure would like a shiny new Timur's Lash!

Ok, so I'm not crazy. I have experienced the same.

Granted last time, I got my hunter to rank 5 and my titan to rank 4, so I played A LOT. I haven't played nearly as much, but haven't even seen an IB weapon drop for anyone else.

Can anyone else please report back if they have seen IB weapons drop this go around? Thanks

 

[scarletham]

Plan C is just excellent in every category, it's a best-in-class fusion and a worthy Exotic. The unique perk is crazy, feels like I need a shower any time it gets me a kill in the Crucible.

Are you talking about the charge time after swap?

 

[nowai]

Your Light/Beware must be with using Accelerated Coils? I've got one and the base charge rate is quick as hell but definitely slower than LotA.

Plan C is just excellent in every category, it's a best-in-class fusion and a worthy Exotic. The unique perk is crazy, feels like I need a shower any time it gets me a kill in the Crucible.

I just so happen to have a comparison to share.

Light/Beware with accelerated coils:

 

[Hawkian]

Are you talking about the charge time after swap?

Yup. Double-tap triangle to activate while equipped. Its internal cooldown is the only thing keeping it from being the most broken weapon available in the Crucible.

I just so happen to have a comparison to share.

Light/Beware with accelerated coils:

Aha well there you go! Looks like L/B with accelerated coils exactly matches it for charge rate, and wins in other categories except 1 extra shot. Hip fire and crowd control are both nasty good perks for a fusion and guaranteed on LotA of course, though.

So I believe the best charge time rankings would be like

1. Special perk Plan C
2. Accelerated Coils Perun's Fire
3. Accelerated Coils Light/Beware/Light of the Abyss

 

[EroticSushi]

Uh...(NSFW)
http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2pswk5/as_i_promised_fellow_guardian_eats_his_own_pubes/

Can't say OP didn't deliver.

 

[Doodis]

Ok, so I'm not crazy. I have experienced the same.

Granted last time, I got my hunter to rank 5 and my titan to rank 4, so I played A LOT. I haven't played nearly as much, but haven't even seen an IB weapon drop for anyone else.

Can anyone else please report back if they have seen IB weapons drop this go around? Thanks

Got a Gheleon's Demise as a drop as well. I'm halfway through rank 3. Last go around, I got a Timur's Lash (made it to level 4 then). So one weapon drop during the IB is on par for me.

 

[jadedm17]

Anyone doing a Vault of Glass normal raid today?
Lv 28 Hunter w/upgraded weapons. PSN is notjaded

 

[nowai]

Got a Gheleon's Demise as a drop as well. I'm halfway through rank 3. Last go around, I got a Timur's Lash (made it to level 4 then). So one weapon drop during the IB is on par for me.

Great thanks! Guess I need to live in IB this weekend...

 

[Deku Tree]

So is it true that you only see the effect of a 331 attack maxed weapon on a level 33 enemy which we will not see until the hard CE raid anyway? So right now there is really no point into putting an exotic shard into an upgraded post DLC exotic weapon? And you will only see the effect of putting an exotic shard into a weapon if you plan to take it into the CE hard raid?

I was playing with a friend who was explaining to me the way that Destiny damage scaling works. He was saying that if you have a 300 attack weapon then it does full damage against level 30 enemies and it scales something like 10 attack per level. So 290 attack does "full damage" against level 29's (and you can never do more than "full damage" against any enemy of any level no matter how far your weapons are upgraded or how high level you are). Of course there are also level advantages and disadvantages that I haven't mentioned....

So if you are level 31 and you have a 320 attack weapon then is it true that increasing your weapons attack value beyond 320 will not allow you to do more damage to level 32 enemies?

My basic question is has anyone done any sort of a write up regarding how Destiny's damage system works and how attack values and level advantages affect how much damage you can do and how much damage you take? Thanks!

 

[scarletham]

Can't say OP didn't deliver.

That's true but I honestly wouldn't have blamed him

Yup. Double-tap triangle to activate while equipped. Its internal cooldown is the only thing keeping it from being the most broken weapon available in the Crucible.

Awesome

 

[Dhruv_hanom]

So is it true that you only see the effect of a 331 attack maxed weapon on a level 33 enemy which we will not see until the hard CE raid anyway? So right now there is really no point into putting an exotic shard into an upgraded post DLC exotic weapon? And you will only see the effect of putting an exotic shard into a weapon if you plan to take it into the CE hard raid?

I was playing with a friend who was explaining to me the way that Destiny damage scaling works. He was saying that if you have a 300 attack weapon then it does full damage against level 30 enemies and it scales something like 10 attack per level. So 290 attack does "full damage" against level 29's (and you can never do more than "full damage" against any enemy of any level no matter how far your weapons are upgraded or how high level you are). Of course there are also level advantages and disadvantages that I haven't mentioned....

So if you are level 31 and you have a 320 attack weapon then is it true that increasing your weapons attack value beyond 320 will not allow you to do more damage to level 32 enemies?

My basic question is has anyone done any sort of a write up regarding how Destiny's damage system works and how attack values and level advantages affect how much damage you can do and how much damage you take? Thanks!

Found this

Plan C 300 vs Plan C 331

 

[Zoso Achilles]

Can someone tell me what the discipline stat is on the upgraded heart of praxic fire?

 

[Chamber]

So what shows up on X1 owners screen at Xur in place of Monte Carlo?

Nothing. Typically Xur only has 12 upgrades. On PS4/3 he has 13 this week.

Someone tell me why this man can't sell me a Hawkmoon in that case. Bungie, pls.

 

[Dave_6]

I need to get a few more coins but when I do, I have no idea what I want to upgrade. I've got a MIDA, Monte Carlo, Thorn, Sunbreakers, Plan C, Crest of Alpha Lupi and I want to get the Knucklehead radar for some reason. Ugh.

 

[nowai]

Can someone tell me what the discipline stat is on the upgraded heart of praxic fire?

139 fully upgraded.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

So is it true that you only see the effect of a 331 attack maxed weapon on a level 33 enemy which we will not see until the hard CE raid anyway? So right now there is really no point into putting an exotic shard into an upgraded post DLC exotic weapon? And you will only see the effect of putting an exotic shard into a weapon if you plan to take it into the CE hard raid?

I was playing with a friend who was explaining to me the way that Destiny damage scaling works. He was saying that if you have a 300 attack weapon then it does full damage against level 30 enemies and it scales something like 10 attack per level. So 290 attack does "full damage" against level 29's (and you can never do more than "full damage" against any enemy of any level no matter how far your weapons are upgraded or how high level you are). Of course there are also level advantages and disadvantages that I haven't mentioned....

So if you are level 31 and you have a 320 attack weapon then is it true that increasing your weapons attack value beyond 320 will not allow you to do more damage to level 32 enemies?

My basic question is has anyone done any sort of a write up regarding how Destiny's damage system works and how attack values and level advantages affect how much damage you can do and how much damage you take? Thanks!

I thought attack was damage relative to your level vs enemy level. I doubt if you are a level 27 with a 331 weapon you will be doing max damage on a 33 enemy. Maybe Max damage for a level 27 shooting a 33

Attack stat is still so confusing to me

 

[Hawkian]

So is it true that you only see the effect of a 331 attack maxed weapon on a level 33 enemy which we will not see until the hard CE raid anyway? So right now there is really no point into putting an exotic shard into an exotic weapon? And you will only see the effect of putting an exotic shard into a weapon if you plan to take it into the CE hard raid?

I was playing with a friend who was explaining to me the way that Destiny damage scaling works. He was saying that if you have a 300 attack weapon then it does full damage against level 30 enemies and it scales something like 10 attack per level. So 290 attack does "full damage" against level 29's (and you can never do more than "full damage" against any enemy of any level no matter how far your weapons are upgraded or how high level you are). Of course there are also level advantages and disadvantages that I haven't mentioned....

So if you are level 31 and you have a 320 attack weapon then is it true that increasing your weapons attack value beyond 320 will not allow you to do more damage to level 32 enemies?

My basic question is has anyone done any sort of a write up regarding how Destiny's damage system works and how attack values and level advantages affect how much damage you can do and how much damage you take? Thanks!

No, this is all wrong.

He's thinking of Light Level.

Being level 29 versus being level 30 versus being level 32 has no impact on the amount of damage you'd do to a level 28 enemy. Being at the same level as your target simply means that your across-the-board damage penalty is zero, whereas it's something like 25% for being one level below, 40% for being two below, 60% for being three below, and 100% (unable to damage) for being more than three below. Once you're above level 4, the amount of damage you'd do to a level 4 enemy no longer has anything to do with your own level.

Attack and Defense values are completely different. Attack on a weapon is basically a check against the Defense value of your target (which in PvE at least is completely hidden information). If your Light level compared to your target determines what portion of 100% damage you do to that target, Attack/Defense determine what 100% damage is.

The short answer is that higher Attack always translates to more damage, even against lower level enemies. However, this effect is far less pronounced than the effect of being "at level" compared to your target, because the Light level penalty is applied across the board to your damage output.

edit:
TL;DR: Attack always increases the amount of damage you do, but it's still less important than leveling up.

 

[Deku Tree]

I thought attack was damage relative to your level vs enemy level. I doubt if you are a level 27 with a 331 weapon you will be doing max damage on a 33 enemy. Maybe Max damage for a level 27 shooting a 33

Attack stat is still so confusing to me

See below.

Found this

Plan C 300 vs Plan C 331

No, this is all wrong.

He's thinking of Light Level.

Being level 29 versus being level 30 versus being level 32 has no impact on the amount of damage you'd do to a level 28 enemy. Being at the same level as your target simply means that your across-the-board damage penalty is zero, whereas it's something like 25% for being one level below, 40% for being two below, 60% for being three below, and 100% (unable to damage) for being more than three below. Once you're above level 4, the amount of damage you'd do to a level 4 enemy no longer has anything to do with your own level.

Attack and Defense values are completely different. Attack on a weapon is basically a check against the Defense value of your target (which in PvE at least is completely hidden information). If your Light level compared to your target determines what portion of 100% damage you do to that target, Attack/Defense determine what 100% damage is.

The short answer is that higher Attack always translates to more damage, even against lower level enemies. However, this effect is far less pronounced than the effect of being "at level" compared to your target, because the Light level penalty is applied across the board to your damage output.

edit:
TL;DR: Attack always increases the amount of damage you do, but it's still less important than leveling up.

Thanks! So I guess my friend was not completely accurate. Good to know that it makes sense to fully upgrade.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

No, this is all wrong.

He's thinking of Light Level.

Being level 29 versus being level 30 versus being level 32 has no impact on the amount of damage you'd do to a level 28 enemy. Being at the same level as your target simply means that your across-the-board damage penalty is zero, whereas it's something like 25% for being one level below, 40% for being two below, 60% for being three below, and 100% (unable to damage) for being more than three below. Once you're above level 4, the amount of damage you'd do to a level 4 enemy no longer has anything to do with your own level.

Attack and Defense values are completely different. Attack on a weapon is basically a check against the Defense value of your target (which in PvE at least is completely hidden information). If your Light level compared to your target determines what portion of 100% damage you do to that target, Attack/Defense determine what 100% damage is.

The short answer is that higher Attack always translates to more damage, even against lower level enemies. However, this effect is far less pronounced than the effect of being "at level" compared to your target, because the Light level penalty is applied across the board to your damage output.

I believe if you are more than 3 levels above your enemy then attack is irrelevant. I've tested this out myself. Not sure how many levels above your enemy you need to be exactly but there is a point where attack stops mattering.

 

[phen0m24]

EDIT for Byron:

Byron ignore PM. He can't do tomorrow night. I tried. (thought it was tonight)

I'll try to finagle a HM Atheon CP for him tonight I guess.

 

[EL CUCO]

This attack/light level/enemy level stuff is so confusing. Every time I try to dig into it, it makes my brain hurt.

 

[Twilight Gap]

This attack/light level/enemy level stuff is so confusing. Every time I try to dig into it, it makes my brain hurt.

level: arm strength
attack value: size of the gun
defense: thickness of bulletproof vest

 

[Hawkian]

I believe if you are more than 3 levels above your enemy then attack is irrelevant. I've tested this out myself. Not sure how many levels above your enemy you need to be exactly but there is a point where attack stops mattering.

We're getting into way more complicated stuff than pertains to Deku Tree's question here- but this isn't a function of being a certain number of levels higher than your target making attack irrelevant, so much as the fact that there's a maximum amount of damage a single shot from a gun can do to any given target, determined by impact, attack, defense, and comparing light levels.

This is from the top comment of the reddit analysis about Attack

To clarify even further:

the way damage scales is that the maximum damage that a particular gun can do to a particular enemy (excluding range considerations) is a function of the gun's impact and both the level of the player and level of the enemy. Attack on the gun then determines how close to the maximum you will get. When your damage is maxed out in a particular situation (against the cap), the damage will be displayed in GREY numbers. When it is not, it will be WHITE numbers.

Go try a 300 attack weapon on a series of enemies of same type but different level. Against low level enemies (enemy level ~< attack/15) you will be have GREY damage numbers. Against anything above level 20 you will have white colored damage numbers, and it doesn't matter if you are shooting a level 22 or a level 26, the damage will be IDENTICAL (provided you are 26 or higher, it gets complicated when you are under the enemy level, the cap is scaled down)

TLR; In any situation where your gun is generating damage numbers in GREY, upgrading the attack value will NOT increase damage. In any situation where your gun is generating WHITE damage numbers, increasing the attack damage WOULD(if possible) increase damage dealt.

I know we've clarified/summed up in like six different ways already, but to really get at your point:

If you're level 24 or level 29 attacking a level 4 enemy, Attack no longer matters because you're hitting that maximum damage point almost definitely, with any weapon.
If you're level 30 shooting a level 26 enemy, Attack does matter because you'll be seeing the white (non-max) damage value, and thus could do more damage, even though you're more than 3 levels above them.

In a less mathy sense....

Attack isn't worth worrying about with regard to attacking enemies even one level below you, but it can make up some of the gap when taking on enemies a level or two above you.

 

[LordofPwn]

One day, just maybe we'll get more factions. really want 7 seraphs gear...

 

[EL CUCO]

level: bullet caliber
attack value: size of the gun
defense: thickness of bulletproof vest

I wish it were this simple.

Edit after your edit: You were right about arm strength, though. That definitely increases with your light level.

Edit after your edit of the edit: Lol

 

[TP-DK]

Is There any gaf IB train running at the moment?

 

[zewone]

One day, just maybe we'll get more factions. really want 7 seraphs gear...

Trials of Osiris are coming.

 

[Deku Tree]

I wish it were this simple.

So I was talking to Timba in the raid the other day and he was saying that there is no point in upgrading his Ghorn beyond 320 attack because it can't do any more damage to level 32 enemies. What people are saying in this topic is that is not true.

TL;DR (my brain hurts so make it simple) upgrade your weapons (and armor) all the way. It helps a lot.

 

[Twilight Gap]

I wish it were this simple.

Edit after your edit: You were right about arm strength, though. That definitely increases with your light level.

Edit after your edit of the edit: Lol

I DONT GET IT EITHER

 

[LordofPwn]

Trials of Osiris are coming.

if only we had an official statement declaring that and telling us when.

 

[zewone]

So I was talking to Timba in the raid the other day and he was saying that there is no point in upgrading his Ghorn beyond 320 attack because it can't do any more damage to level 32 enemies. What people are saying in this topic is that is not true.

TL;DR (my brain hurts so make it simple) upgrade your weapons (and armor) all the way. It helps a lot.

He's wrong.

331 will always do the most damage to any and all enemies at this time, regardless of level.

EDIT: Yeah, you got it.

 

[EL CUCO]

So I was talking to Timba in the raid the other day and he was saying that there is no point in upgrading his Ghorn beyond 320 attack because it can't do any more damage to level 32 enemies. What people are saying in this topic is that is not true.

TL;DR (my brain hurts so make it simple) upgrade your weapons (and armor) all the way. It helps a lot.

Lol yeah I'm trying to remember what he was saying. I think it was that you dont do 100% damage on a level 33 enemy if you're as a level 31 with a 331 attack weapon...? Ugh **pops Tylenol **

The fusion rifle in the comparison was a level 300-->331. I wonder what's the difference between 323-->331. I wish they would've done the comparison after upgrading each node of attack. **brain explodes**

 

[rNilla]

I DONT GET IT EITHER

I don't pay attention to any of this stuff other than make the numbers go higher.

 

[EL CUCO]

I don't pay attention to any of this stuff other than make the numbers go higher.

This makes the most sense of everything I've read. Lol

 

[Karl Hawk]

Hey guys, just wanted to post this little document I made for fun.

Destiny's Raid tier/armor sets

Yes, I know it's not an MMO (It isn't, really), but given the fact that it uses a tiered gear progression similar to MMO's, I feel it's fair to designate the raid armor sets from both raids into tiers.

Some of the pictures I found for full VoG armor sets aren't perfect. So if you guys have better pictures of them (preferably in default shader despite looking ugly in color), that'll be great.

Feedback is welcome.

 

[Orochinagis]

Is the Bad Juju worth upgrading? And should I reforge the Thorn?

 

[Twilight Gap]

Is the Bad Juju worth upgrading? And should I reforge the Thorn?

i could tell you of a time when the answer to both of these questions was no...

 

[Auto_aim1]

Reforge Thorn... What? What did I miss?

 

[figadapaura]

i could tell you of a time when the answer to both of these questions was no...

but I don't have time

 

[Lima]

Reforge Thorn... What? What did I miss?

That upgrade at Xur.

 

[Hawkian]

So I was talking to Timba in the raid the other day and he was saying that there is no point in upgrading his Ghorn beyond 320 attack because it can't do any more damage to level 32 enemies. What people are saying in this topic is that is not true.

TL;DR (my brain hurts so make it simple) upgrade your weapons (and armor) all the way. It helps a lot.

I don't pay attention to any of this stuff other than make the numbers go higher.

So far as I can help sculpt this into something we'd use in actual practice...

If facing enemies above your level, increasing your Attack value does help, but it is always a better idea to raise your own level if possible.

Against enemies at or below your level, raising your own level does nothing, increasing your Attack value does something.

edit: For example, if you're deciding how to get the most bang for your buck out of an Exotic shard, an armor upgrade is the answer 99% of the time.

 

[Orochinagis]

i could tell you of a time when the answer to both of these questions was no...

Dammit Speaker, just tell me.

Spoiler

I want to believe is a yes.

 

[Hoodbury]

EDIT for Byron:

Byron ignore PM. He can't do tomorrow night. I tried. (thought it was tonight)

I'll try to finagle a HM Atheon CP for him tonight I guess.

If all you can get is a templar CP I'd be up for helping out if there is room. Need that Fatebringer, lol.

I can join if you just get Atheon CP too though if you need bodies.

 

[Conscience Falls]

Would any Xbox One users be up to getting Flawless Raider, Raiding Party, or Strength of the Pack this weekend?
The remaining three I have after that (Titan and Warlock Mastery, Ghost Hunter) are all I have left after that and I'm fairly certain I'm about to complete those as well.
Speaking of, is there any way to see how many Ghosts we have picked up?