Hunter-Zero
Member
The Wakening once again? ffs bungie.
I will not play that shit again, sorry.
I will not play that shit again, sorry.
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Destiny |OT14| Sticking It Hard in Crota's End
- Thread starter Hawkian
- Start date
Players spend plenty of time trying to get raid gear, the best armor in the game at that moment.
Knowing in 2 months that it'll just be completely useless and unnecessary and even worse than armor that will be much more easily available is spitting in the face of everyone that spent time hunting for raid gear.
Saying it's okay for new gear to come out that just does away with any potential progression through raids is just so ass-backwards to me. The problem is inherently the lack of content and the lack of ways to achieve "optimal" raiding status (and fighting shitty RNG).
Every standard MMO raid you go into, you know loot will drop for *somebody*. It's guaranteed. *Somebody* in the raid group will get to advance, perhaps more. And on top of that, you will have other ways to achieve gear that is, perhaps not Best-In-Slot, just as good at making you geared enough to do the raid or other end-game content.
The problem is Destiny doesn't have those things. I get why you guys are pushing back against the idea of forcing people to bottleneck through each raid. Although I think if you don't have the time commitment, there are other games you can play, I can understand. But the *best* solution would make multiple raids or challenging ways to reach each step (or even just make VoG raid gear guaranteed and have people roll need/greed on it).
Respect legacy players' time investments and keep actual content progression in the game while working around shitty RNG walls. At the current moment there is 0 reason to want to get VoG raid armor. That's stupid. It's raid gear. It should be BiS at that tier of content. But no, every player can just buy their way past the content and be ready for Crota's End.
edit:
It's important for the game to keep a content progression. That is my key point. Players should be forced to go through VoG if they want to see 31+ content (unless they are just carried past it but at that point why play the game-- there will be players that do this, not something designers should consider seeing as how that will just always happen with any progression that requires any sort of investment). And when House of Wolves comes, players should be forced to go through Crota's End if they want to start optimally for The Arena.
Knowing in 2 months that it'll just be completely useless and unnecessary and even worse than armor that will be much more easily available is spitting in the face of everyone that spent time hunting for raid gear.
Saying it's okay for new gear to come out that just does away with any potential progression through raids is just so ass-backwards to me. The problem is inherently the lack of content and the lack of ways to achieve "optimal" raiding status (and fighting shitty RNG).
Every standard MMO raid you go into, you know loot will drop for *somebody*. It's guaranteed. *Somebody* in the raid group will get to advance, perhaps more. And on top of that, you will have other ways to achieve gear that is, perhaps not Best-In-Slot, just as good at making you geared enough to do the raid or other end-game content.
The problem is Destiny doesn't have those things. I get why you guys are pushing back against the idea of forcing people to bottleneck through each raid. Although I think if you don't have the time commitment, there are other games you can play, I can understand. But the *best* solution would make multiple raids or challenging ways to reach each step (or even just make VoG raid gear guaranteed and have people roll need/greed on it).
Respect legacy players' time investments and keep actual content progression in the game while working around shitty RNG walls. At the current moment there is 0 reason to want to get VoG raid armor. That's stupid. It's raid gear. It should be BiS at that tier of content. But no, every player can just buy their way past the content and be ready for Crota's End.
edit:
It's important for the game to keep a content progression. That is my key point. Players should be forced to go through VoG if they want to see 31+ content (unless they are just carried past it but at that point why play the game-- there will be players that do this, not something designers should consider seeing as how that will just always happen with any progression that requires any sort of investment). And when House of Wolves comes, players should be forced to go through Crota's End if they want to start optimally for The Arena.
Well, if House of Wolves is really doing the same shit as The Dark Below, I'll pass.
I can endure shuch shitty progression system once (legendaries weapons and raid stuff rendered moot in less than 3 months, re-levelling exotics,), in excuse for Bungie inexperience on the matter.
Not twice.
Wait and see, but I'm losing hope.
Jinjo
Member
Having friends that just picked up only a few weeks ago I completely disagree. It's already a huge timesink getting to level 30-31 with current methods, let alone by limiting the means you can that. Now I can atleast play together with my real life friends a lot quicker. You're forgetting about the more casual playet. I understand the whole time devalued principle, I feel it too. But getting newer armor and sharding old stuff is what you've been doing since the start of the game. It's the exotics that are the problem though.
Nope, that's even worse. You can't imagine the numbers of people that couldn't reach 30 after 3 months of multiple VoG runs. As long as this stupid RNG is there and there is no token or guaranteed stuff for multiple completion, buying vendor armor is the lesser of 2 evils.
Jinjo
Member
I'm aware. That's their lack of skill problem. Not mine. They should learn to do the content at their tier before getting to move up. Make the content always relevant at each "tier" of progression. That is the most important part.
edit: Although, yes, that's why I put the caveat of them fixing the RNG bullshit. That's a fucking shitshow mess that needs to be fixed (and mostly is with Crota's End from personal experiences). Fix the RNG and progression through raid "tiers" will be smooth, enjoyable, and players will get to see every tier of content while the devs also respect legacy players.
edit edit:
This is the reason why I hate most MMOs nowadays. They all pander to the casual crowd that just wants to get back in and immediately jump up to current patch end game content. That's just stupid and insulting to legacy players and why I'm not going back to FF14. Spent plenty of time getting BiS'd when the game only had its first big raid. Now players just breeze past that tier of content and never have to even think about doing it. Complete garbage way to handle progression.
Thats got nothing to do with skill, its just Random Luck. You can have all the skill you want and never got that armor drop that can make you progress in 3 months, and you're fine with that ?
Manp
Member
I was hoping to get some advice here. I've recently begun getting back into Destiny after getting a bit tired of it a month after launch.
last night myself and 2 friends tried the heroic daily strike Cerberus Vae III (lvl 24). My character is lvl 24 and my friends are 25 and 26. We have mostly blue gear and the purple gun we got for free recently.
The boss battle (VALUS TA'AURC) was driving us mad and we eventually gave up. We got the boss down to about 33% health but we kept getting murdered by the swarms of enemies that would pour out from various doors in the big room. They seemed to be almost one hitting us.
My question is this, are there any good tactics that we should be using for this boss or is our gear just not good enough?
last night myself and 2 friends tried the heroic daily strike Cerberus Vae III (lvl 24). My character is lvl 24 and my friends are 25 and 26. We have mostly blue gear and the purple gun we got for free recently.
The boss battle (VALUS TA'AURC) was driving us mad and we eventually gave up. We got the boss down to about 33% health but we kept getting murdered by the swarms of enemies that would pour out from various doors in the big room. They seemed to be almost one hitting us.
My question is this, are there any good tactics that we should be using for this boss or is our gear just not good enough?
if they pull that shit again ... Jesus
I assume it will happen and when it does, I'll know they really are incompetently handling progression and will just resign myself to never buying more of destiny product until I see fixes.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
This is a game that wants people to keep buying DLC. The only way that is feasible is if someone who hasn't played the game since October can buy House of Wolves and start playing that content almost immediately.
it almost feels stupid to grind now, because you know you can just shortcut later. It's a game that makes you feel foolish for spending time on it and it's why I'm starting to dial back.
There's a space under the stairs on the left side of the map (when you walk in) that people use to cheese. But yeah, you could be undergeared as well. It doesn't help that the boss is one of the most tedious ones to fight in the game.
It's really not.
You get to enjoy your (not so hard to attain) level 32 for a little bit more than 2 months: that's already a lot of "respect" for your invested time.
It is insulting to players who stay with the game for months on end. Their effort is proven meaningless with each new tier of content.
if they pull that shit again ... Jesus
My personal problem as well.
I am among those players that have crazy number of hours invested with amazing team of friends and we have pretty great collections of exotics on all sides.
I have all possible exotic weapons and all exotic gear for all characters (minus just for the Obsidian Mind and Helm of Inmost Light) and I invested too much time and effort to upgrade all of them at Xur to LV32.
Today I know I will not go though that craziness again. Too much time wasted over weekends to grind for glimmer to be able to exchange everything at Xur and too much time spent in stupid leveling of items.
After that process I am completely on side with reasoning that Destiny in its current form is actually punishing the players that are investing too much time playing. And it is not acceptable to me.
I simply want to start enjoying the game, to play Crucible or to have fun in doing whatever I like to do. With current approach - and I am aware that my subjective and personal issue is that I want to have all my Exotics upgraded to LV32 - I simply can't do that, because the chase for upgrade asks for too much investment.
I certainly hope they will allow for some different upgrade method. The current one is deeply unfair from the perspective of player's investment. I have NOTHING against leveling - it is an new item after all - but the convulsion of the process where we have to exchange items, than pay for the exchange, invest additional shard and then level - that is borderline insulting.
I'm not really sure what cheesing is but if we all pack in under the stairs then they can only approach from one side? Interesting. could be worth a shot. Thanks
I don't think it's that spot. There is a way the enemies just can't reach you at all. Check some YouTube video, it will be more explicit.
Sword Of Doom
Member
I would say it's more than just "annoying" to them. They paid for a full game
The hard raid isn't even out yet and I guess the next DLC is coming out in 2 months now. By the time we get all the weapons from the hard raid the DLC will have come out and they will be useless if Bungie raises the attack cap again. Makes me think they have no idea wtf they are doing.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Basically nothing can hit you there, so you can just take potshots. If someone goes outside and dies, they can just quit and rejoin the game while the other people stay safe under the stairs.
It just makes an already long fight longer though, but unless you have 3 gjallarhorns, that's just how the game is.
I think I'm going to quit when House of Wolves comes and it's those two missions over and over again.
There's a huge part of me that would be happy if Destiny was just a standard skill-based FPS instead of this MMO RPG Frankenstein monstrosity. If gear-checks didn't matter and it all came down to your ability to play the game, then letting people jump into House of Wolves or Comet without needing to grind wouldn't feel that insulting.
You look at it the wrong way, really.
Each new tier of content means new content for us too. Why do you care if people you don't know and only ever meet in the tower can get the same level as you in a matter of days after it is released? It's not going to affect you negatively. It's even a GOOD THING for you, because that means more high level players to help you tackle on the new content early.
People need to stop this e-penis "I've put more hours than them!" thing...
Exotics are bad because it actually resets your progression.
New gear at the vendors do not. They make it so the player base that can enjoy the new content is healthy and plenty.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I guess I have to ask myself why I'm doing Crota over and over again if I can just buy the armor in March and upgrade my exotics to get to 33.
I mean, I suppose it's because I'm supposed to get a Gjallarhorn since it's the best weapon in the game, but I don't even give a shit about that weapon any more, so why bother?
I've said multiple times that isn't my main point. Me personally? Yah I want my time respected, but the big picture for the game and new players should be that they move through content tiers as every other player did before them. The key point is keeping every tier of content relevant through the games' lifecycle.
Currently vault of glass gear and even the raid hardly has a reason to exist. For new players there might as well still be just one raid.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
VoG is basically 6 chances at an exotic now. I assume at some point, people will just want Deathsinger CPs for another 6 chances. The other parts of the raid will be pointless unless you want some weapon like Fatebringer, which will be completely irrelevant by the time the next DLC drops anyway.
Sword Of Doom
Member
These "expansions" are coming out way too soon. That's the problem
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
I understand where you are coming from honestly. This game is PURE grinding. Repeat the same missions and strikes over again. Kinda burnt out as of now. The only reason I will continue to play the game is due to the community
I enjoy playing with you guys at random hours in the morning hahaI dont think Bungie know what they are doing. They nail the core gun play IMO and the raids are some of the best coop experiences. But everything else is a massive mess.
I would say it's more that it's too fast to move between tiers of content. Getting from max VoG gear to max Crota's End should have taken much longer (in none RNG-artificial ways).
Its a video game. Your "effort" IS meaningless...
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Pretty much. I think a lot of people I know are dropping out after this DLC and I don't really blame them. At that point, if enough people stop playing, I'm just going to do the same.I understand where you are coming from honestly. This game is PURE grinding. Repeat the same missions and strikes over again. Kinda burnt out as of now. The only reason I will continue to play the game is due to the community
There will be lesbian bears to watch.
brianjones
Member
maybe you should be asking yourself that
But the question is will you do anything about it
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I feel like a fucking addict kicking a bad habit. I'm just glad I'm not playing every day now. lol
It's sad, because I'm almost considering starting another tedious grind heavy game (Dragon Age or Assassin's Creed) in order to replace one addiction with another.
Sword Of Doom
Member
He has cut down significantly as have some of the other players I regularly play with. In the end it's Bungie's loss not ours
brianjones
Member
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Same with me once the core group of PS4 friends I play with move on, I will most likely do the same. As of now, I notice I dont play as much. I dont care about finishing the dailies, finishing VoG on all 3 characters, and leveling up my weapons and gears. Switching over to Crucible does help change the pace up, but it still remains the same overall. Frankly speaking I am glad I was able to play with alot of gaffers, you guys are awesome and I do hope we will continue to play different games in the future. The game is terrible without anyone to play with. I heard the stories about LFG and dont want to experiences that D:
I <3 the intro, her voice is sooo charming to my ears
That's not how it works from a business standpoint. The playing buying the game + Dark below has the right to enjoy the content of the DLC as soon as possible.
From a game design standpoint, it's also much better to have more player at the new level to find groups easily.
That would be incredibly stupid to make a new player buying The game and its 2 expansions and to make him wait 5 - 6 months of grind to be at House of Wolves level IF HE IS LUCKY.
I'm all for making old content relevant, but gating progression the way you suggest doesn't help players who have invested a lot of time anyways.
I'll explain. If what you're suggesting is players buy 27 Light vanilla Legendaries so they can enter VoG, then get VoG armor so they can hit 30, then use that to get into CE and hit 32 so they can run HoW content....then the old raids are still made irrelevant by the new ones.
A more interesting approach IMO would be to update old Raids with new levels or modifiers and give them a chance to offer updated gear with the new stats.
Imagine an Epic VoG, level 32, with shielded enemies and maybe Lightswitch or something, giving 36 Light armor. We'd be running CE and VoG with the same enthusiasm instead of using the old raid solely for nostalgia drops (obsolete weapons and armor).
That kind of decision would make launch-day players have more content to play weekly. As of now, I have all the VoG drops I wanted so for practical purposes there's only 1 Raid in the game for me. By the time HoW hits I'll be in a similar position: possibly no incentive to go back to CE.
If they updated old Raids the game would be more rich for us dedicated players. In a few weeks we'd have 3 different Raids at different difficulties, all of which could give us satisfying drops. In a game with such limited content, keeping all of it relevant by adding/updating raids instead of replacing them seems like a logical solution we'd all cherish.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Yeah and it wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't happening every 3 months. It's way too soon.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
One day at a time, brother. One day at a time.
Yeah, it was fun meeting people and adding like a hundred people to my friends list. But I can't imagine doing the LFG stuff either, and I feel like the most hardcore people here already have their set groups ready to go.Same with me once the core group of PS4 friends I play with move on, I will most likely do the same. Frankly speaking I am glad I was able to play with alot of gaffers, you guys are awesome and I do hope we will continue to play different games in the future. The game is terrible without anyone to play with. I heard the stories about LFG and dont want to experiences that D:
I <3 the intro, her voice is sooo smoothing to my ears
Sadly, I think I might like Cinderella Girls more. If only Monogatari would air forever.
I honestly don't understand how this is not the system in place right now, perhaps it makes too much sense...
brianjones
Member
i definitely don't understand why bungie wants people to not care about vault of glass anymore when its arguably just as interesting if not moreso than crota
updating the exotics is a start but they could totally do more
updating the exotics is a start but they could totally do more
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Why put that much effort into something that only a minority of players would use though? Especially when they want you to buy the new DLC in order to get new gear?
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Youre right that most people have a set main group. I try to float around after I finish the raids with my reset group and help out any other groups if I can.
Was the first song the intro? It is also pretty damn catchy. I should prob watch the first idolm@aster I def want more Monogatari after watching Tsukimonogatari
I def want more Monogatari after watching TsukimonogatariI can trump this with stopping a just activated golden gun dead with No Land Beyond, the guy must have been extremely pissed that day.
silver.tongue
Member
Its way better than Crota.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Youre right that most people have a set main group. I try to float around after I finish the raids with my reset group and help out any other groups if I can.
lol I should stop de-railing the thread a little bit haha.Was the first song the intro? It is also pretty damn catchy. I should prob watch the first idolm@aster
There can never be enough lesbian bears. But I think I just like saying lesbian bears.
Noisepurge
Member
yup, majorly annoying that VoG armor that we spent countless hours trying to win became instantly shit-tier when the DLC arrived :/
would have wanted to still keep using that cool looking VoG helmet...