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[Orthogonal]

CQB + Fitted Stock.

Try it. Range is irrelevant. Horseman kills anything up close.

Interesting. Sounds like a winner.

It's not a viable option right now though. Bungie accidentally broke it with the update. I'd wait till the patch to fix it.

Have they acknowledged it? Both Vex and 4th Horseman need some love.

VoG is pretty challenging even at 32 due mechanics, CE is just kill everything with brute force.

Agreed, VoG is a much better design. Since it was designed for Level 30, being above level 30 makes little difference outside of taking slightly less incoming damage based on damage calc. The raid is just really well designed from the Mechanics standpoint.

Crota's End will be a joke on Hard mode with a Level 33 sword bearer. As easy as it has become now, it will only get easier while HM VoG will largely stay the same at Light Level 33 or 34.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Interesting. Sounds like a winner.



Have they acknowledged it? Both Vex and 4th Horseman need some love.



Agreed, VoG is a much better design. Since it was designed for Level 30, being above level 30 makes little difference outside of taking slightly less incoming damage based on damage calc. The raid is just really well designed from the Mechanics standpoint.

Crota's End will be a joke on Hard mode with a Level 33 sword bearer. As easy as it has become now, it will only get easier while HM VoG will largely stay the same at Light Level 33 or 34.

They did acknowledge it, but probably won't fix anything until HoW comes out.

If anything, shotgun buff made hm VoG a lot easier. Especially conflux and gatekeepers part.

All Bungie has to do is add lvl 32 gear and 331 weapons to VoG. DO IT!

 

[Johan Liebert]

Have they acknowledged it? Both Vex and 4th Horseman need some love.

Yeah, they acknowledged both.

https://www.bungie.net/en/Help/Article/12627

 

[Orthogonal]

They did acknowledge it, but probably won't fix anything until HoW comes out.

If anything, shotgun buff made hm VoG a lot easier. Especially conflux and gatekeepers part.

All Bungie has to do is add lvl 32 gear and 331 weapons to VoG. DO IT!

Yeah, they acknowledged both.

https://www.bungie.net/en/Help/Article/12627

An acknowledgment is at least an implicit promise to fix it. Better than most things we get with this game.

I'm still going to level it up, but will reserve judgement until I experience it in all its glory.

 

[Orochinagis]

They did acknowledge it, but probably won't fix anything until HoW comes out.

Cant they just hotfix it?

 

[Hawkian]

i don't know what exactly 4th horseman needs fixed, but describing it as not viable is a little silly, it's kind of awesome.

 

[Johan Liebert]

i don't know what exactly 4th horseman needs fixed, but describing it as not viable is a little silly, it's kind of awesome.

It has horrible stability and the ROF is no better than regular full auto after the patch. It's now no better than any other legendary shotgun but with worse range.

 

[Hawkian]

i didn't know it was supposed to be faster than full auto but I trust you! still awesome.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Look at the stability on this thing pre-nerf. It was so good

 

[Orthogonal]

Look at the stability on this thing pre-nerf. It was so good

Ah, I see. Full Auto with that would really be amazing.

Pretty sad looking now.

 

[Hawkian]

wow, yeah, I had no idea it was that extreme

 

[Auto_aim1]

Ah, I see. Full Auto with that would really be amazing.

Pretty sad looking now.

Not many people had the weapon so they don't know its awesomeness. High ROF + Stability + Thunderer perk = dayyymmnn. It was the best TDB exotic but now you really shouldn't use it over, say, Felwinter's Lie or something.

I mean, you can still have fun with it. It is a cool looking weapon.

Edit: Don't worry guys, it was an accidental nerf. It will be back to its former glory soon.

Here's what a Bungie dev had to say about it.

This doesn't mean anything to you, but we just found out we were mauled by a branch bear...

Sage literally just walked into the room to alert us that we have found that the 4th Horseman's files were overwritten during their integration into the patch... What that means to you is that we playtested the proper things, but an issue occurred before the weapon made it out of the building and the stats HAVE been incorrectly modified.

We will work on getting the weapon restored to its former glory ASAP.

Apologies all around and thank you for drawing our attention to the issue!

https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/105058110/0/0/1

 

[HawksWinStanley]

Look at the stability on this thing pre-nerf. It was so good

Does this thing really exist? I've never seen anyone with one. Just figured it was a myth.

 

[Orthogonal]

Does this thing really exist? I've never seen anyone with one. Just figured it was a myth.

Being a Playstation exclusive on the DLC makes it pretty rare, but you are looking at 4 (5?) owners discussing it right now.

Not many people had the weapon so they don't know its awesomeness. High ROF + Stability + Thunderer perk = dayyymmnn. It was the best TDB exotic but now you really shouldn't use it over, say, Felwinter's Lie or something.

I mean, you can still have fun with it. It is a cool looking weapon.

Edit: Don't worry guys, it was an accidental nerf. It will be back to its former glory soon.

Here's what a Bungie dev had to say about it.



https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/105058110/0/0/1

Crisis averted. In the Future!

 

[Twilight Gap]

so, list of exotics that need to be touched in the next patch

4th horsemen
no land beyond
pocket infinity
the last word
necrochasm
gjallarhorn
truth
vex mythoclast

also this thing is supposed to shoot suns or someting

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So I'm thinking about coming back for uh, House of Wolves when that comes out. I quit about a week before the dark below came out.

How's the patches been so far?

 

[Orthogonal]

so, list of exotics that need to be touched in the next patch

gjallarhorn
truth

What's wrong with these?

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

i don't know what exactly 4th horseman needs fixed, but describing it as not viable is a little silly, it's kind of awesome.

It has horrible stability and the ROF is no better than regular full auto after the patch. It's now no better than any other legendary shotgun but with worse range.

Final round perk is broken as well. It doesn't even display in the stats.



Also, for some reason while I have 4th horseman equipped, special ammo refuses to drop for me from mobs. I see a lot more heavy and special ammo drops while using 4th hm.

 

[Kadey]

Looks like daylights savings doesn't affect reset.

 

[Twilight Gap]

What's wrong with these?

aren't they the only weapons still affected by the heavy ammo glitch? or were those tests inconclusive?

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

So I'm thinking about coming back for uh, House of Wolves when that comes out. I quit about a week before the dark below came out.

How's the patches been so far?

Depends. Do you like shotguns or auto rifles?

 

[nOoblet16]

Being a Playstation exclusive on the DLC makes it pretty rare, but you are looking at 4 (5?) owners discussing it right now.



Crisis averted. In the Future!

I have one as well, was told it was shit then tried it a bit ran out of ammo quickly and had to get closer than melee range to get a kill in PvP to get a kill so thought it was shit too, despite the fairly high impact and the ridiculously high stability (pre patch). Bit more than anything the slow reload speed kills it for me, can't even use chain of woes because it's not usual to get headshots from a shotgun.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

Being a Playstation exclusive on the DLC makes it pretty rare, but you are looking at 4 (5?) owners discussing it right now.

Is it the rarest? I've literally never seen one.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Depends. Do you like shotguns or auto rifles?

I prefer Shotguns and Revolvers.

 

[Orthogonal]

aren't they the only weapons still affected by the heavy ammo glitch? or were those tests inconclusive?

Good point. I think we determined that it wasn't necessarily weapon related but activity. It still gets lost if you manually go to orbit, but not with a mission end. There was another circumstance too.

I am not entirely sure though.

Is it the rarest? I've literally never seen one.

It very well could be based on the limited platform and time available.

I have one as well, was told it was shit then tried it a bit ran out of ammo quickly and had to get closer than melee range to get a kill in PvP to get a kill so thought it was shit too, despite the fairly high impact and the ridiculously high stability (pre patch). Bit more than anything the slow reload speed kills it for me, can't even use chain of woes because it's not usual to get headshots from a shotgun.

There are a lot better options for PvP, it's probably not worth the Exotic slot there. PvE on the other hand, it could be amazing when fixed properly.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Looks like daylights savings doesn't affect reset.

Why would it? It's meant to affect you

aren't they the only weapons still affected by the heavy ammo glitch? or were those tests inconclusive?

Any RL that carries more than 6 rockets loses ammo after going to orbit.

Horn
Truth
Hezen
Any RL with field scout.

 

[CouchMaster]

Ah, I see. Full Auto with that would really be amazing.

Pretty sad looking now.

If you use third ballistic option for extra range the stability goes down to what the range stats were before, practically nil. I tried it for lulz after patch, the kickback is so bad its like you're firing a BFG.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

I prefer Shotguns and Revolvers.

Then you'll have fun.

HC + Shotgun + RL = kill everything in seconds.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Then you'll have fun.

HC + Shotgun + RL = kill everything in seconds.

Revolvers and Shotguns were buffed I'm guessing? I remember when they butchered Shotties because of PVP but it affected PvE too.(My poor Remote~)

 

[Orthogonal]

I have some programming experience, but nothing on the level to understand the complexity of a game like this, but it is kind of shocking that they aren't able to push out a hotfix for a guns base stat values in a day or two. What is the holdup? Would it not be just a few values in a table?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I have some programming experience, but nothing on the level to understand the complexity of a game like this, but it is kind of shocking that they aren't able to push out a hotfix for a guns base stat values in a day or two. What is the holdup? Would it not be just a few values in a table?

Like all programming, it's probably tied to a bunch of other code(Modifiers from perks, character skills, resistance, etc.) that changing some numbers can probably end up breaking the game.

Like, looking at the heavy weapon glitch, that's probably tied to character perks, weapon perks, ammunition packs(Both inventory and the ones you pick up), the ammo retention system when you go to orbit or change maps..It can get complex.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Revolvers and Shotguns were buffed I'm guessing? I remember when they butchered Shotties because of PVP but it affected PvE too.(My poor Remote~)

Shotguns are now a beast in PvE. More damaging that rocket launchers in certain cases.

Hand Cannons have always been OP as they're meant to be.

 

[Phaethon0017]

Which ballistics do ya'll like for Red Death?

Agressive (3rd option) for most stability. I find the range is pretty good already for most situations.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Shotguns are now a beast in PvE. More damaging that rocket launchers in certain cases.

Hand Cannons have always been OP as they're meant to be.

Ooooh glad to hear. How's Thorn doing now a days?

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Ooooh glad to hear. How's Thorn doing now a days?

Bungie hasn't touched it afaik since the previous nerf.

 

[Johan Liebert]

Ooooh glad to hear. How's Thorn doing now a days?

HCs got a range nerf so they aren't as effective at long ranges as they used to be. Golden Gun was also affected by it.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Bungie hasn't touched it afaik since the previous nerf.

I think I remember that nerf.

HCs got a range nerf so they aren't as effective at long ranges as they used to be. Golden Gun was also affected by it.

That's a bummer, guess I'll roll with Remote.

 

[Johan Liebert]

That's a bummer, guess I'll roll with Remote.

Not to say they're that bad though. They're still quiet effective in PVE and imo still the best choice for primaries. Pulse Rifles are also a viable choice since they recently got a buff.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

HCs got a range nerf so they aren't as effective at long ranges as they used to be. Golden Gun was also affected by it.

Range + accuracy Nerf which is why TLW isn't as effective

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Not to say they're that bad though. They're still quiet effective in PVE and imo still the best choice for primaries. Pulse Rifles are also a viable choice since they recently got a buff.

Ew I've never liked pulse rifles. They're the red headed child IMO.

Range + accuracy Nerf which is why TLW isn't as effective

Oh man I forgot I had gotten TLW. Boy, that sucks.

 

[Johan Liebert]

Ew I've never liked pulse rifles. They're the red headed child IMO.

Well, Bad Juju is no longer the butt of all jokes!

 

[CouchMaster]

I have yet to see damage drop-off on Hawkmoon, it maybe nerfed in accuracy but whenever it hits headshot its always 94 without magic bullet, no matter the range.

 

[nOoblet16]

Guys I have an Atheon HM and Crota NM checkpoint on my level 28 Warlock.

Let me know if anyone wants to do it or just help a bro out with his new character. I obviously won't be able to do anything at all in Crota as they all show up as ??? to me and in VoG it takes me a while to kill and I die quite quickly.

EDIT: Forget the VoG HM checkpoint, never finished NM on this character so I can't really use the checkpoint from HM. Unless there is another way.

 

[king picollo]

So does getting 1000/1000 achievements on the xbone qualify me for guardian lord status?

11 hours of 3 man crotas end and we finally flawless raidered it on what was going to be our last attempt.

The joy was unparalleled.

 

[nOoblet16]

Bungie is in a tough spot on Raids. They have to be "easy" enough that the average joes can beat it, but still challenging for those that want the challenge.

Crota's end is in this wierd space where it can be very challening for most casual olayers ,but easy enough for a top player to solo. I am sure they will be looking at new mechanics to make the solo run impossible for The Arena.

I feel like they should add better gear in VoG and Crota later on, the reason being it makes Gear from any raid except the most latest one useless. It'll only get worse for VoG later on when HoW comes out, the only reason to play it would be for exotic drop/chest, since even Fatebringer and VoC won't be able to keep up for long with their 300 damage cap.

They would also need to lower the amount of grind needed to get from level 20 to 30 if they do that. Now you could say that they could keep it and just award level 30 gear at level 26 VoG so that they can play Crota NM at 30 later on, but no one really plays 26 VoG anymore. And it takes a lot of grinding (at earlier stages atleast when you can't do strikes as quick, to hit the required Vendor reputation level)

 

[Orthogonal]

I feel like they should add better gear in VoG and Crota later on, the reason being it makes Gear from any raid except the most latest one useless. It'll only get worse for VoG later on when HoW comes out, the only reason to play it would be for exotic drop/chest, since even Fatebringer and VoC won't be able to keep up for long with their 300 damage cap.

They would also need to lower the amount of grind needed to get from level 20 to 30 if they do that. Now you could say that they could keep it and just award level 30 gear at level 26 VoG so that they can play Crota NM at 30 later on, but no one really plays 26 VoG anymore. And it takes a lot of grinding (at earlier stages atleast when you can't do strikes as quick, to hit the required Vendor reputation level)

VoG gear isn't the problem. You can get to Level 31 without ever stepping into VoG. It can certainly speed the process up, but it is not required. The process was already sped up by having Vendor gear go from Light 27 to Light 33. There is basically a 2 Light Level boost built into the grind just by having the DLC.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Guys I have an Atheon HM and Crota NM checkpoint on my level 28 Warlock.

Let me know if anyone wants to do it or just help a bro out with his new character. I obviously won't be able to do anything at all in Crota as they all show up as ??? to me and in VoG it takes me a while to kill and I die quite quickly.

EDIT: Forget the VoG HM checkpoint, never finished NM on this character so I can't really use the checkpoint from HM. Unless there is another way.

I'll help if there are others, I can load up the hm Atheon checkpoint.

 

[Phaethon0017]

I have yet to see damage drop-off on Hawkmoon, it maybe nerfed in accuracy but whenever it hits headshot its always 94 without magic bullet, no matter the range.

Yeah the accuracy is a bit more annoying than a damage drop to me. So many perfectly lined up shots just go to the wayside, and out of those shots lag eats some as well. Not exclusive to HCs, but way more noticeable to me with them.

For PvP Hawkmoon is definitely more my thing than other non-Thorn HCs. But Timur's Lash just makes so much more PvE sense. Outlaw+Field Scout+Crowd Control has me doing only about 200 pts less damage than Hawkmoon's max damage with more bullets.

Shameless plug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt6NnPbQipc

 

[nOoblet16]

VoG gear isn't the problem. You can get to Level 31 without ever stepping into VoG. It can certainly speed the process up, but it is not required. The process was already sped up by having Vendor gear go from Light 27 to Light 33. There is basically a 2 Light Level boost built into the grind just by having the DLC.

I know that, I got to level 31 without ever playing VoG as well. They sped it up by introducing higher light vendor gear but also introduced the commendation system which countered the speed up slightly by introducing a little more grind to it.

What I am saying is that in the future i.e. HoW and later they will have to reduce the level 20 to 30 grind even more. One way to do it is making VoG gear worth more, right now all they are is just more ass shards to me which means nothing either, they will be worth even less in the future if they don't change this but make it easier to level up from 20 to 30 (which I am sure they will do). Basically VoG gear will be the problem later, people will stop playing it unless they just want to have fun since it's such a beautifully designed raid or for that exotic chance.

 

[Gala]

I finally got the choice for a exotic bounty! Which would be the best for a Gunslinger Hunter? A light in the dark, Tolands Legacy or dubious task?