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[Deku Tree]

Kor's guide to PvP Matchmaking manipulation:
The below applies primarily to Solo play.

So here you are, a good player. You've found yourself with a pretty good amount of Best around and Bright side medals, yet for some reason lately you've been getting more and more Bright Side medals and less actual victories. In fact, somehow, most of the victories you've gotten are when you are playing terrible and you end up in the bottom half of the scoreboard on your team. So why does this keep happening?

First lets talk about matchmaking. Bungie has a pretty good default matchmaking system. I would even argue that most matches that have no drop-outs end up being very close matches. This system, as it stands, works well. The problem actually comes about shortly after a game starts.

So the game has started, the initial wave is over and you find yourself kicking ass. The score is already 850v120 in your favor, you even have half a super bar already. And then it happens, your game is about to go to shit and you don't even realize it yet.

xXxRandom_EnemyxXx has left the game

Hey, no big deal right? That just gives you an advantage of a 6v5 in your favor, and right around the time of heavy ammo? Sweet deal. Then Heavy pops. You really have the advantage now. You got one heavy crate and neutralized the second. You've got a little over a 2K lead, and then you see it again:

iTzGuy_on_Other_Team has left the game
Pro_Snipez_Opponent has left the game

Wow, a 6v3? Well, the advantage is there, except now it's become so hard to find somebody that the game has slowed down. You aren't really gaining a bigger lead because of it as well. Now comes the turning point of the game:

U_gunna_get_wrecked has joined enemy team
1HKO_sniper_guy has joined the enemy team
Crazy_Aggresive_Shotgun_guy has joined the enemy team

Around now your team score probably looked something like this:

1800 - You
600 - Teammate 1
545 - Teammate 2
300 - Teammate 3
165 - Teammate 4
100 - Teammate 5

You, being a pretty good player, have been cleaning house this whole game. Bungie noticed, as did their matchmaking formula. In fact, it noticed so well, that it found 3 people on your level to match you against in an effort to get an even match. Sure you can square off against 1 of them, maybe even 2 of them. But your teammates? Those poor bastards are about to get violated more than a hot chick crowd surfing during Mardi Gras.

As the game progresses, you'll find that you've lost that lead, but you hope that you can maintain an even game. Except around 7500v7500 they break away. The enemy team starts using supers and all collectively picked up heavy while your team runs right past it. You end the game around 8700v10000, all because you played too well in the beginning.

So what can you take away from this?
It's actually pretty simple. You want to be the slacker on the losing team here. Believe it or not, the best thing you can do is play like shit the first 1/3rd of the game. Basically until the first heavy pops. If done correctly, you're more lackluster teammates will abandon ship and be replaced by competent players. Then you can actually play to your normal skills and reclaim the advantage.

So what makes me think this works?
I'll be honest, I've done some testing, but not enough to claim this as a sure fire method yet. Yesterday alone I played 17 games of Clash. Of those 17 I was on the winning team twice. Both times I was on the lower half of the score board. Of the 15 times I lost, I received 14 "Bright Side medals"

This morning I played three games and "threw" the match for the first 2 minutes. I won all 3 because my teammates jumped ship and I got some good replacements.

Final Notes
There seems to be several problems that need attention here:
-Players should have some sort of repercussions when abandoning a game
-Matchmaking needs to fill empty slots with players on equal levels of the entire team and not the better/best player
-Some sort of visible rank could help mitigate some of these situations.

And that pretty much concludes my theory. I will continue to test said theory for some time. As a final note, all my experiments took place in Clash. I'm not sure if other game types would work the same way.

I think matchmaking is just 100% completely random. Other than I think they try to match you with people who are physically close to your location. I don't believe there is any ranking going on at all, other than that for some reason they try to match you with Guardians of a similar light level but no PvP skill check at all.

 

[WheelHoss1]

I think I'm reaching my breaking point with this game, second week in a row with nothing but energy and shards running nightfalls across 3 characters. To say there were a few F bombs yelled would be a huge understatement.

So far NF has been shit for me. VoG, on the other hand, has been rather generous . . .

 

[The Rain King]

Kor's guide to PvP Matchmaking manipulation:
[...]
U_gunna_get_wrecked has joined enemy team
1HKO_sniper_guy has joined the enemy team
Crazy_Aggresive_Shotgun_guy has joined the enemy team
[...]

Hahaha. Love these names. Good stuff. You have so many On the Bright Side medals. I thought I was a masochist.

 

[rNilla]

How do you deal with the rof delay after the bolt action reload?

It's annoying that when you fire the second shot after sprint canceling, the bullet comes out after a considerable delay.

It sounds like you are just animation cancelling the bolt action reload instead of manually reloading then animation cancelling which actually increases rate of fire. After firing you have to hit reload (square) and as soon as that starts sprint forward a step (to cancel the reload animation). You don't want to actually reload, just start it and interrupt it. This only works if you have reserve ammo. If you only sprint forward after firing you will cancel the bolt action animation but still have to wait the same amount of time as if you were watching the animation. It's hard to explain but does that make sense?

This is a poor video but the 40 second mark shows reload animation cancelling in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L92R2nNJZPM

 

[HigXx]

About to do the Daily on my worst character, if someone doesnt mind joining in to help that would be awesome

 

[Darknyss09]

Does anyone want to do CE HM Abyss + Bridge?

1. Darknyss
2. US-Frostburn
3. HigXx
4.
5.
6.

Edit: Room for 3 more

 

[Frostburn]

Does anyone want to do CE HM Abyss + Bridge?

1. Darknyss
2. US-Frostburn
3.
4.
5.
6.

Can start when there's like ~4 of us.

I'll go on my Hunter.

 

[HigXx]

Does anyone want to do CE HM Abyss + Bridge?

1. Darknyss
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

Can start when there's like ~4 of us.

Id be up for this, HigXx

 

[Darknyss09]

Does anyone want to do CE HM Abyss + Bridge?

1. Darknyss
2. US-Frostburn
3. HigXx
4.
5.
6.

Edit: Full now,, thanks

 

[Auto_aim1]

Need to do 3x Atheon, 1x NM and 3x NN Scrota.
Gotta try for all those inevitable shards and energies !

Also is it better to do Atheon NM first then HM for that double roll at exotic ?

Sorry I slept, didn't do 3x Atheon. Just let me know when you're ready. I also have 3x normal Gorgon and 3x hard Gorgon CP.

 

[noomi]

I bet you Bungie fixes the animation reload canceling on the NLB before they fix the weapon itself being terrible.

Ultimate troll!

 

[Kor of Memory]

I think matchmaking is just 100% completely random. Other than I think they try to match you with people who are physically close to your location. I don't believe there is any ranking going on at all, other than that for some reason they try to match you with Guardians of a similar light level but no PvP skill check at all.

I'm like 95% sure that there is a hidden matchmaking ranking system. My wife would argue 100%

Mostly because when my wife plays with me, she is usually around 4th or 5th place scoring wise on my team. When she plays solo, she is usually 1st or 2nd place.

I'm pretty sure there is a hidden trueskill that for some reason is actually per character. All 3 alts that I've made have had insanely easy PvP matches for the first 15 or 20 matches of their existence. I even posted this the day after I made my Warlock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYyKVjIZY8E

The game certainly doesn't seem to care about actual level or light level when matchmaking. Grimoire might come into play, but it's more likely that players with higher grimoire scores are just more active/better players anyway.

 

[nOoblet16]

Sorry I slept, didn't do 3x Atheon. Just let me know when you're ready. I also have 3x normal Gorgon and 3x hard Gorgon CP.

Ready now

 

[Ji66a-Man]

3 spots open. PSN: Darknyss

I'm down.

 

[timmy]

3 spots open. PSN: Darknyss

I'll go. Psn caffemisto

 

[Darknyss09]

I'm down.

I'll go. Psn caffemisto

Awesome... that's 5. one more spot if anyone wants it. Sending chat invites now.

 

[ultrazilla]

Awesome... that's 5. one more spot if anyone wants it. Sending chat invites now.

Dark-still open?

 

[Darknyss09]

Yep, you are the last spot.
PSN?

 

[ultrazilla]

Yep, you are the last spot.
PSN?

Yes send me an invite please! Kaijuseijin

 

[Ji66a-Man]

Awesome... that's 5. one more spot if anyone wants it. Sending chat invites now.

Party chat isn't working for me.

 

[Darknyss09]

Party chat isn't working for me.

Just sent another invite.

 

[Ji66a-Man]

Just sent another invite.

Can't connect to party chat server.

 

[Darknyss09]

Can't connect to party chat server.

Ok, we'll switch to fireteam chat.

 

[Deku Tree]

I'm like 95% sure that there is a hidden matchmaking ranking system. My wife would argue 100%

Mostly because when my wife plays with me, she is usually around 4th or 5th place scoring wise on my team. When she plays solo, she is usually 1st or 2nd place.

I'm pretty sure there is a hidden trueskill that for some reason is actually per character. All 3 alts that I've made have had insanely easy PvP matches for the first 15 or 20 matches of their existence. I even posted this the day after I made my Warlock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYyKVjIZY8E

The game certainly doesn't seem to care about actual level or light level when matchmaking. Grimoire might come into play, but it's more likely that players with higher grimoire scores are just more active/better players anyway.

I always get matched with people of a similar light level to me in both PvP and PvE. It is much easier to notice this in a strike with only three matched or in a smaller PvP game. You don't notice it as much in a 6v6 because of the number of players. Especially you can notice it in Iron Banner though. You can cheese IB matchmaking by switching to level 20 armor during matchmaking and then Switching back during the match. It happens.

And the only times I've been thrown into an ongoing match its been when I was thrown into the losing team where a lot of players left and I am the worst at PvP so there was no skill check.

Bungie is concerned about fast reliable matchmaking with Destiny. That's all. If there was a skill check it would be made public and advertised as a feature.

 

[figadapaura]

What happened?

I got a Venation III as my reward.

 

[noomi]

lol, thanks deathjr

 

[Kor of Memory]

I always get matched with people of a similar light level to me in both PvP and PvE. It is much easier to notice this in a strike with only three matched or in a smaller PvP game. You don't notice it as much in a 6v6 because of the number of players. Especially you can notice it in Iron Banner though. You can cheese IB matchmaking by switching to level 20 armor during matchmaking and then Switching back during the match. It happens.

And the only times I've been thrown into an ongoing match its been when I was thrown into the losing team where a lot of players left and I am the worst at PvP so there was no skill check.

Bungie is concerned about fast reliable matchmaking with Destiny. That's all. If there was a skill check it would be made public and advertised as a feature.

PvE matchmaking is different. It obviously tries to match you with people at or around your light-level.

I'm also not sure what you mean by not noticing it in 6v6 games. I notice all the time when I have teammates that are less than level 30. The matches where you joined mid-game, what gametype were you playing?

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

It sounds like you are just animation cancelling the bolt action reload instead of manually reloading then animation cancelling which actually increases rate of fire. After firing you have to hit reload (square) and as soon as that starts sprint forward a step (to cancel the reload animation). You don't want to actually reload, just start it and interrupt it. This only works if you have reserve ammo. If you only sprint forward after firing you will cancel the bolt action animation but still have to wait the same amount of time as if you were watching the animation. It's hard to explain but does that make sense?

This is a poor video but the 40 second mark shows reload animation cancelling in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L92R2nNJZPM

Oh I know how to do reload cancel, I was just saying the bolt action cancel is very annoying due to the delay in the next shot.

Sometimes I don't press reload and it goes into bolt reload automatically. I just press melee to cancel that.

 

[Shito]

I got a Venation III as my reward.

Ah, ok, that's your personal crazy theory for managing that damn heartless RNG. Can't say nothing about that, I dance and shoot at the Gorgon's chest myself...
I thought you wiped at Archon or something like that.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

lol, thanks deathjr

Don't thank me, I joined Cyberpunk's game and horn'd the ogre boss.

 

[123rl]

I've spent almost the whole game playing with Auto rifles as my Primary. I picked up a hand cannon from an Engram and I'm surprised with how much I like it. It's The Devil You Don't.

So I'm now thinking of levelling this up fully but my question is, should I use this one or is there a better Hand Cannon (excluding Exotics)? I really could see myself using this as main weapon from now on though. It's great

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

I've spent almost the whole game playing with Auto rifles as my Primary. I picked up a hand cannon from an Engram and I'm surprised with how much I like it. It's The Devil You Don't.

So I'm now thinking of levelling this up fully but my question is, should I use this one or is there a better Hand Cannon (excluding Exotics)? I really could see myself using this as main weapon from now on though. It's great

LORD FATEBRINGER

 

[rNilla]

Oh I know how to do reload cancel, I was just saying the bolt action cancel is very annoying due to the delay in the next shot.

Sometimes I don't press reload and it goes into bolt reload automatically. I just press melee to cancel that.

Ah OK. I often mess up the reload cancel and end up doing a bolt action cancel. Sometimes I must forget to hit reload or maybe I cancel too early and then it's like the gun is jammed. Waste of a bullet unless Mulligan kicks in.

 

[nOoblet16]

I've spent almost the whole game playing with Auto rifles as my Primary. I picked up a hand cannon from an Engram and I'm surprised with how much I like it. It's The Devil You Don't.

So I'm now thinking of levelling this up fully but my question is, should I use this one or is there a better Hand Cannon (excluding Exotics)? I really could see myself using this as main weapon from now on though. It's great

Devil you don't is shit tier handcanon due to low mag size (entirely due to this)

 

[WipedOut]

Had 10 MG telemetries, 30 bounties and probably 20 public event packages ready to turn in as soon as I got it. Wasn't going to do another bounty until I got the TL and burned up all the bounties I had on it. Shit is getting maxed so fast.

Now I can actually use it. Looking forward to it! Can't believe it took this long to get it. Normal crota too.

where did you get TL from? and congrats!

 

[figadapaura]

Ah, ok, that's your personal crazy theory for managing that damn heartless RNG. Can't say nothing about that, I dance and shoot at the Gorgon's chest myself...
I thought you wiped at Archon or something like that.

Haha it's not that I think I'll get a better roll if I don't solo it, it's that it's too much effort to do it solo when the rewards can be so shit.

If I wiped at Archon, it'd be my fault and I can't hate the game for that.

 

[Spycarnegy]

LORD FATEBRINGER

QFT

 

[stb]

The usual, boys?
1) stb (PSN Berried_treasurE)
2) stb's pal (PSN Capt_Verde) ???
3) Dave_6 (PSN DaveS78)
4) GRIP (PSN GriP17-)
5) captscience (PSN captscience)
6) schwagger15 (PSN spyder_ur)
a1) StereoType (PSN Haybro_)

Thanks for another good week of raids, guys. And thanks to StereoType for filling in for schwagger15, who apparently doesn't like us anymore.

0) Gorgon chest 3x
Loot:
Me:
- Truth from Gorgon chest. I think that was the only exotic our group got out of it.(Dupe, but warlock alt will keep this for PVP and void burn weeks)
Everyone else:
- Verde got a class item on each chest

1) full NM CE 2x - went fine; we even had one run where all 6 crossed the bridge into the light. We forgot to save the Crota CP, so we didn't do a 3rd Crota kill.
2) HM abyss and bridge - less fine; after 2-3 attempts, Grip, Verde, and I think someone else eventually cleared abyss. We ended up cheesing bridge because the gatekeepers were being dicks and not getting properly stunned by sword hits. I really hate these encounters on HM.
Loot:
Me:
- spare CE arms for my titan
, Dragon's Breath (dupe, probably getting sharded)
- Hunger of Crota (dupe, will be warlock alt's primary RL)
Everyone else:
- Capt_Verde got the armor necessary to get 2 of his characters to 32.
- Dave_6 finally got his warlock helmet

3) Gorgons - Atheon, Atheon 3x - jumping puzzle is always a good time. Gatekeepers wasn't as bad as last week. Atheon died in 2 teleports each time, and twice after Time's Vengeance had expired.
Loot:
Me:
- Praedyth's Timepice
- Sparrow
- ship
- umpteenth titan helmet
Everyone else:
- Dave_6 pulled Red Death, which was one of just a few exotic weapons he hadn't gotten yet. At least I think this happened at Atheon. It could have been in CE.
- I think there were a few Vexes, but no one's first.

Anyone pull anything noteworthy that I missed?

 

[dB Viper]

is there any way, on Bungie's site, to see how long the raid took you to complete?

I did my usual CE NM solo, and I felt like I breezed through it. Can you check this?

 

[Deku Tree]

PvE matchmaking is different. It obviously tries to match you with people at or around your light-level.

I'm also not sure what you mean by not noticing it in 6v6 games. I notice all the time when I have teammates that are less than level 30. The matches where you joined mid-game, what gametype were you playing?

If they are matching 12 people then it is harder to closely match light levels than if they are matching 6 people or 3 people. I don't believe that the PvP matchmaking is substantially different from the PvE matchmaking.

Bungie is a very forthcoming company regarding talking about their technologies. If they had skill checks and things like that it would be in their marketing materials as a feature that we should be very happy about.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

Atheon kill hard:

Kartik
No0blet
Narasingh
Deathjr.
Valy


One spot.

 

[The Rain King]

Atheon kill hard:

Kartik
No0blet
Narasingh
Deathjr.
Valy


One spot.

I'll join if you're doing it now.

 

[Kor of Memory]

is there any way, on Bungie's site, to see how long the raid took you to complete?

I did my usual CE NM solo, and I felt like I breezed through it. Can you check this?

Once you've clicked on your guardian, you should see a "Recent Games" tab on the right side of the screen. Click on the game and it should show you the duration.

If they are matching 12 people then it is harder to closely match light levels than if they are matching 6 people or 3 people. I don't believe that the PvP matchmaking is substantially different from the PvE matchmaking.

Bungie is a very forthcoming company regarding talking about their technologies. If they had skill checks and things like that it would be in their marketing materials as a feature that we should be very happy about.

While I disagree, I will admit that I obviously have no hard evidence to backup my claims in this regard. Outside of personal anecdote of course.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

I'll join if you're doing it now.

In the next 15-20 mins, once everyone is ready to go.

 

[stb]

Red Death is mine! Got it from Atheon kill #3 (and my 2nd Vex from kill #2). Finally got the damn Warlock helm from Crota so all I need from his ass now is HoC and the Titan helm. Oh yeah, the Crux too.

Thanks to stb, Grip, captains verde and science and Haybro for the runs!

Wait, how'd you get Crux? Nevermind; I apparently suck at reading.

 

[dB Viper]

Once you've clicked on your guardian, you should see a "Recent Games" tab on the right side of the screen. Click on the game and it should show you the duration.

Tried this already, only shows Kills, KD, Clan and Deaths...

 

[noomi]

I Am Legend

 

[The Rain King]

In the next 15-20 mins, once everyone is ready to go.

Nvm. Gotta go out in ten.

 

[Blue Ninja]

My Hunter gets two much-needed Legendary engrams.

One decrypts into a Warlock chest, another decrypts into Ascendant Energy.

Destiny.

 

[TheOddOne]

My Hunter gets two much-needed Legendary engrams.

One decrypts into a Warlock chest, another decrypts into Ascendant Energy.

Destiny.

*Thrall face*