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[jschreier]

I wouldn't hold your breath.

Bungie has yet to officially announce anything for Destiny's future.

The closest we have is a blurb in an update about another event in the spring that is bigger than SRL.

They're not going to tell us that a game that was never announced has been delayed.

Well, I imagine investors will want to know if there'll be a big Destiny game for sale this fall. Since there won't be, I imagine they'll have to mention that in some way tomorrow.

 

[GustyGardens]

Tomorrow should be interesting. Activision earnings call hitting in the afternoon. Wonder if Eric Hirshberg will confirm that D2 is delayed. And if that does happen, I wonder if all the YouTubers/podcasters who trashed my reporting will apologize...

I'd be interested in learning the attach rate and similar numbers for the game. The series is meant to be a big pillar for Activision, but it's certainly not being treated like one.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Well, I imagine investors will want to know if there'll be a big Destiny game for sale this fall. Since there won't be, I imagine they'll have to mention that in some way tomorrow.

Oh of course. I was more specifically talking about the BWU ( or whatever they're calling it now).

 

[Slammin_Hammon]

Bungie won't announce a D2 delay since it has never officially been announced. There is the expectation of a release, but they haven't said anything so announcing a delay will only serve to frustrate the community further. The leaked court documents showing their plans are no longer really a good indicator of what's to come. The only thing I could see coming from the earnings report is, "hey guys, you've really bought a lot of microtransactions and supported us really well so next month we are giving you 2 free new strikes! (please be excited)"

Oh to be clear this is what I expect for communication from Bungie to us. They may well say other stuff about delays to investors.

 

[Deku Tree]

Bungie won't announce a D2 delay since it has never officially been announced. There is the expectation of a release, but they haven't said anything so announcing a delay will only serve to frustrate the community further. The leaked court documents showing their plans are no longer really a good indicator of what's to come. The only thing I could see coming from the earnings report is, "hey guys, you've really bought a lot of microtransactions and supported us really well so next month we are giving you 2 free new strikes! (please be excited)"

Oh to be clear this is what I expect for communication from Bungie to us. They may well say other stuff about delays to investors.

Activision will confirm if they have something big for Destiny in the fall.

They did it last year during an earnings call, and revealed something big coming for Destiny in Fall 2015 which turned out to be TTK.

If they don't mention it, then were not getting anything.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

LOL

Jason who? That's what will Goth will probably say.

Goth and Broman, "Everything is fine. Destiny is great!" It's like that image with the dog in the bar and everything is on fire.

 

[DVPredator85]

Destiny |OT♦40| Suicidal Smurfs

 

[celestial body]

If there's no D2 this year then surely there's going to be some kind of expansion before then in the fall? I mean they have 600+ people on this and an audience that's virtually begging to spend money on it.

 

[Kor of Memory]

If there's no D2 this year then surely there's going to be some kind of expansion before then in the fall? I mean they have 600+ people on this and an audience that's virtually begging to spend money on it.

At the rate Bungie seems to be able to create content, if they want to sell another full priced game, they're going to need to create at least as much content as Vanilla had, and that seems to be hard for them, given that it took Bungie 3 years to make that content.

We're essentially looking for just as much content in half the time. Of course, anything we could get in the mean time, is content that isn't going to be included on the next major release, which is a detraction from it's value.


Look at SRL. While it was a fun event, it could easily have been a solid bullet point for Destiny 2. That's one less feature Destiny 2 can now offer us.

So Bungie has to find a way to give us just enough scraps to keep us happy (they aren't), while also developing a game at twice their normal speed (they probably aren't).

It's going to be interesting this year...

 

[WipedOut]

Goth and Broman, "Everything is fine. Destiny is great!" It's like that image with the dog in the bar and everything is on fire.

I mean this type of ass kissing by them mean they are on the payroll right? They both are on deej level of annoyance.

 

[xVaalbarAx]

who wants to play crimson jump offs?

 

[WipedOut]

who wants to play crimson jump offs?

Hit me up, I'm game
PSN W193D0UT

 

[Darryl M R]

Anyone trying to crimson double but for wins? I want my double grimoire

 

[Kor of Memory]

So I think at this point, we should start labeling Destiny content by tiers?

• Tier 1 - Full Title (Vanilla, whatever D2 likely is)
• Tier 2 - What was formally known as Comet Expansions. TTK being the main exmaple
• Tier 3 - What Bungie called expansions, but most of us think as DLC. House of Wolves and Dark Below fit here.

Here is where things drop off.

• Tier 4 - Events with Substance - An Event that has a big enough impact on the game to really change up peoples playing habits. Example being SRL.
• Tier 5 - Events lacking Substance - An Event that is mostly cosmetic, and has minimal impact on playing habits, if any at all. Examples being FotL and Crimson Deaths.
• Tier 6 - Random Free stuff for no effort. Such as 2014 Xmas free legendary, or the 2016 New years free Emblem

.

So we've effectively gone
1,3,3,2,5,4,6,5

 

[Biggy]

Anyone trying to crimson double but for wins? I want my double grimoire

I'll be on in 5mins.

 

[celestial body]

At the rate Bungie seems to be able to create content, if they want to sell another full priced game, they're going to need to create at least as much content as Vanilla had, and that seems to be hard for them, given that it took Bungie 3 years to make that content.

Yeah the community has to accept it takes Bungie a lot of time to create PvE content. TTK was beaten by the hardcore in about 1.5 months, considering it took over a year to make that's not a great ratio. That's fair enough just hoping for great PvE stuff on the way.

 

[Pandora012]

Anyone want to do some Crimson Doubles for a couple of rounds?
Be it suicide or legit.

Pandora012

 

[Darryl M R]

I'll be on in 5mins.

Nice, I won't be on my mic though--would that be an issue?

 

[mehrmantrout]

Finally got the Nowhere so have all the DO ships and shaders. I just need Omen of the Exodus to drop and i'm done

 

[Hawkian]

There are 3 spots for a Newbie VoG tonight.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1DcCXWHn5EYFKlJmPjawNCHovK8v9IrBORo3WrcPfTE8/viewform?usp=send_form

 

[xplicitone]

Anyone want to do some Crimson Doubles for a couple of rounds?
Be it suicide or legit.

Pandora012

I'd be down in about an hour and a half if you still need to then

 

[Kor of Memory]

Yeah the community has to accept it takes Bungie a lot of time to create PvE content. TTK was beaten by the hardcore in about 1.5 months, considering it took over a year to make that's not a great ratio. That's fair enough just hoping for great PvE stuff on the way.

More than a year if you consider there were assets for TTK well into development before Vanilla launched.

 

[stb]

Man, the CrimsonSuicides thing is great. Whoever said that it's the poster child for whoever is left working on D1 having almost no idea what the community wants or how it behaves nailed it.

It does make me sad, though. At this time last year my static group was just forming up, and everyone was having fun doing Crota runs and were excited earning their first Black Hammers.

What a difference a year makes.

 

[the_log_ride]

Anyone trying to crimson double but for wins? I want my double grimoire

Me bro, but I'm on night time PST.

 

[Pandora012]

I'd be down in about an hour and a half if you still need to then

Sorry just got someone.

 

[Kadey]

So how does suicides count against your KD?

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

They get 3 chances to get guaranteed 320 gear every single week.
PvP only players like myself will never hit 320.

Lol if only that was true

A ton of pve players are still not 320.
Guaranteed 320 loot means nothing.

I had to grind iron banner for 320 ghost because the raid never dropped one for me.

SRL for 320 helmets and class item because same reason as above.

12 weeks since challenge mode came out that guarantees 320 loot, and a lot of us pve players are still not 320.

Not that being 320 has any significant impact on pve content, but this rng system is even worse than year 1.

 

[ReignofSparrows]

Pretty accurate summary for me. I remember reading a post from rubenov (if im not mistaken) way back a few days after the patch hit saying he could only do 2 matches of skirmish in a row those days because of how sweaty it was and that before he could go the whole day playing. It was immediately obvious the changes.

Rubenov and just about everyone he played with have moved on from PvP primarily because of the matchmaking changes. Playing matches with Rubenov and Wicked in regular Crucible post-matchmaking changes was draining and absolutely no fun, even for them.

But some people fixate on the fact that some players are good enough to pubstomp. The experience of anyone above average is irrelevant because pubstomping is so offensive, I guess. Take that, Rubenov.

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

I notified the Press Sneak Fuck of suicide doubles.

Good job LT, would love to see an article about this.

 

[FyreWulff]

At the rate Bungie seems to be able to create content, if they want to sell another full priced game, they're going to need to create at least as much content as Vanilla had, and that seems to be hard for them, given that it took Bungie 3 years to make that content.

Vanilla Destiny also had to wait for components of the engine to come online

Also, suicide boosting has been around since Halo :yawn: It's always been possible to suicide boost Elimination for drops. People also suicide boosted Firefight Doubles.

 

[Kyoufu]

Good job LT, would love to see an article about this.

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/02/10/destinys-newest-farming-trick-valentines-day-suicide

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

This is hilarious to watch.

Players trolling a dev that has been trolling the player base. Sounds fair to me.

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/02/10/destinys-newest-farming-trick-valentines-day-suicide

Lol that was quick.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Vanilla Destiny also had to wait for components of the engine to come online

Also, suicide boosting has been around since Halo :yawn: It's always been possible to suicide boost Elimination for drops. People also suicide boosted Firefight Doubles.

Certainly.

I'm sure the toolset they have now is at least a mild improvment of what they were working with 2 years ago, but I still have a hard time seeing how they could possibly get out a D2 in a timely manner without starving the current community.

 

[Dthomp]

There are 3 spots for a Newbie VoG tonight.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1DcCXWHn5EYFKlJmPjawNCHovK8v9IrBORo3WrcPfTE8/viewform?usp=send_form

I'll have to get back to you, but potentially me and my wife could join in. She's very new to the game but is lvl 40 and 280+ LL

You should already have me on your FL (dthomp)

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

Bungie has the perfect PR to write a page or two and tell absolutely noting besides "Exciting information coming soon!"

 

[Kor of Memory]

Bungie has the perfect PR to write a page or two and tell absolutely noting besides "Exciting information coming soon!"

?

Are you referencing something specific? Or just randomly venting about their abilities?

 

[FyreWulff]

In Halo Reach, whenever I got a new Xbox Live trial code with a game, I would make a new live account and easily go 50+ kills with no deaths in BTB. Grab a banshee at the start and use it the entire match. The people you played with those first five or ten games were bottom of the barrel. It was a perverse sort of fun, but it was definitely fun.

So I get where these streamers are coming from, but it doesn't make a ton of sense as an argument against SBMM. Obviously ranked playlists would be great. Has Bungie gone on record as to why they're against ranked playlists? Even from the move to the Arena in Halo Reach? Was it just anti-cheating? Remove the carrot and the cheaters lose the incentive?

Halo 2 and 3's ranked playlists created a massive, massive cheating incentive and black market revolving around their games and headaches for Xbox Support due to people giving each other account details for boosting. People also scummed new accounts constantly, which they had no way of ever actually preventing, and ruined matchmaking since it was impossible to lock in skill that quickly. It was confirmed like, a year after 3 came out that their next game (which we didn't even know was Reach yet) would no longer have visible ranks.

Reach was set up to encourage you to not account scum, with the long haul rank buildup, and resetting the Arena ranks via seasons. This meant you couldn't boost or buy a top rank account and then just sit on it, it would go away in a couple of months, which made it no longer economically viable to sell boosted accounts.

Arena was also a bit clever in that they did not show you what division you were in until you fed Trueskill enough games (30) to figure out a good idea of what your skill actually was. This is why they had the "play X games for the day" mechanic. It enforced the TS minimum data but also encouraged maximum playlist churn.

I wrote a really big post about it on HBO back then, but considering the context, I really don't miss visible ranks at all. It was so bad that Nintendo never implemented visible ranks in Smash because of what happened in Halo. Epic REMOVED 1-50 visible ranks from Gears 2 and switched over to a pure XP system. Visible ranks are less important to the public than people think; quality matches are more important to player retention.

Personally what I wished we had was something like Halo 3's playlist XP, where you could see a playlist specific EXP amount. This gave me a better idea of how decent someone would be at a specific playlist than their number rank. The data is technically there for Destiny via the Grimoire.

 

[Darknyss09]

Anyone need a suicide partner?

 

[Kor of Memory]

Halo 2 and 3's ranked playlists created a massive, massive cheating incentive and black market revolving around their games and headaches for Xbox Support due to people giving each other account details for boosting. People also scummed new accounts constantly, which they had no way of ever actually preventing, and ruined matchmaking since it was impossible to lock in skill that quickly. It was confirmed like, a year after 3 came out that their next game (which we didn't even know was Reach yet) would no longer have visible ranks.

Reach was set up to encourage you to not account scum, with the long haul rank buildup, and resetting the Arena ranks via seasons. This meant you couldn't boost or buy a top rank account and then just sit on it, it would go away in a couple of months, which made it no longer economically viable to sell boosted accounts.

Arena was also a bit clever in that they did not show you what division you were in until you fed Trueskill enough games (30) to figure out a good idea of what your skill actually was. This is why they had the "play X games for the day" mechanic. It enforced the TS minimum data but also encouraged maximum playlist churn.

I wrote a really big post about it on HBO back then, but considering the context, I really don't miss visible ranks at all. It was so bad that Nintendo never implemented visible ranks in Smash because of what happened in Halo. Epic REMOVED 1-50 visible ranks from Gears 2 and switched over to a pure XP system. Visible ranks are less important to the public than people think; quality matches are more important to player retention.

Personally what I wished we had was something like Halo 3's playlist XP, where you could see a playlist specific EXP amount. This gave me a better idea of how decent someone would be at a specific playlist than their number rank. The data is technically there for Destiny via the Grimoire.

I still think a set of ranked playlists and a set of social playlists could fit in the scheme of things.

Give players access to a shader or emblem depending on their rank.

Even a Silver>Gold>Platinum>Diamond>Onyx or whatever scheme for shaders/emblems, or even ships.

Destiny has enough cosmetic options that could easily be "disabled" after 3 months, or whatever the season would be.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

Anyone need a suicide partner?

LOL. Well, just spit water on my desk.

 

[NakedRescue]

Suicide doubles anyone?

Edit: Joining Darknyss

 

[Kyoufu]

How fitting for a love themed event to be dominated by re-enactments of Romeo & Juliet.

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

?

Are you referencing something specific? Or just randomly venting about their abilities?

Both? randomly venting and poking fun at Deej's BWU.

 

[FyreWulff]

I still think a set of ranked playlists and a set of social playlists could fit in the scheme of things.

Give players access to a shader or emblem depending on their rank.

Even a Silver>Gold>Platinum>Diamond>Onyx or whatever scheme for shaders/emblems, or even ships.

Destiny has enough cosmetic options that could easily be "disabled" after 3 months, or whatever the season would be.

I've got no problem with Ranked/Social split inherently, the problem with Ranked/Social split is it encourages redundancy (Teams Slayer, Social Slayer) splitting the population between the same group of people interested in the gametype, and Ranking a playlist caused loss anxiety so it would naturally nerf a playlist's potential population. SWAT had hundred thousand plus people playing it unranked, when it ranked it hovered around 6-10k at Halo 3's prime.

We saw how redundancy negatively impacted Reach when it ended up with the TU split which triggered having 3 different Team Slayer playlists, etc.

Trials of Osiris and Iron Banner is the closest they've gotten to ranked. Your "50" is getting to the Lighthouse or IB5, with a weekly reset. You have to be really careful how much you encourage explicit wins, since it causes DDoS and other nasty attacks to happen. Already see it happen with Osiris. If you were guaranteed a certain drop for having the win or top K/D in regular Crucible, cheating would be way more prevalent. You have to carefully balance rewarding great players with those great players being run off from the game from assholes ruining it with cheating. Get too aggressive with your anti cheat detections and you'll hit false positives.

.... did I mention how much FUN it is to deal with player investment systems?

 

[Ruthless_Barbarian]

How fitting for a love themed event to be dominated by re-enactments of Romeo & Juliet.

The OT title makes perfect sense now

 

[Kor of Memory]

I've got no problem with Ranked/Social split inherently, the problem with Ranked/Social split is it encourages redundancy (Teams Slayer, Social Slayer) splitting the population between the same group of people interested in the gametype, and Ranking a playlist caused loss anxiety so it would naturally nerf a playlist's potential population. SWAT had hundred thousand plus people playing it unranked, when it ranked it hovered around 6-10k at Halo 3's prime.

We saw how redundancy negatively impacted Reach when it ended up with the TU split which triggered having 3 different Team Slayer playlists, etc.

Trials of Osiris and Iron Banner is the closest they've gotten to ranked. Your "50" is getting to the Lighthouse or IB5, with a weekly reset. You have to be really careful how much you encourage explicit wins, since it causes DDoS and other nasty attacks to happen. Already see it happen with Osiris. If you were guaranteed a certain drop for having the win or top K/D in regular Crucible, cheating would be way more prevalent. You have to carefully balance rewarding great players with those great players being run off from the game from assholes ruining it with cheating. Get too aggressive with your anti cheat detections and you'll hit false positives.

.... did I mention how much FUN it is to deal with player investment systems?

While all of these things you've said are true, I can't help but feel that Bungie has to realize how generally unhappy the population is.

At the very least, the matchmaking changes they did in December that nobody was asking for.

It feels like rather than undo the changes, they're doubling down with some extra tweeking. A strategy we've seen from them several times now.

They have to know that whatever it is they've currently got, isn't working. But there doesn't seem to be any effort to correct it.

 

[WonkyPanda]

Just saddens me how much Bungie has neglected the PVE crowd.

 

[FyreWulff]

While all of these things you've said are true, I can't help but feel that Bungie has to realize how generally unhappy the population is.

At the very least, the matchmaking changes they did in December that nobody was asking for.

It feels like rather than undo the changes, they're doubling down with some extra tweeking. A strategy we've seen from them several times now.

They have to know that whatever it is they've currently got, isn't working. But there doesn't seem to be any effort to correct it.

Yeah, that's a Halo era habit I wish they'd drop.

 

[igordennis]

But some people fixate on the fact that some players are good enough to pubstomp. The experience of anyone above average is irrelevant because pubstomping is so offensive, I guess. Take that, Rubenov.

¯_(&#12484_/¯

Edit:

Just saddens me how much Bungie has neglected the PVE crowd.

This letter could be E or P and it would be true in both cases.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

While all of these things you've said are true, I can't help but feel that Bungie has to realize how generally unhappy the population is.

At the very least, the matchmaking changes they did in December that nobody was asking for.

It feels like rather than undo the changes, they're doubling down with some extra tweeking. A strategy we've seen from them several times now.

They have to know that whatever it is they've currently got, isn't working. But there doesn't seem to be any effort to correct it.

Bungie already expressed in a previous BWU (the one about weapon parts) that Destiny is their game and they will do what they want with it. They appear to be very stubborn and enjoy letting stuff just play out.