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Destiny |OT8| Whine and Cheese

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About that 5th chest. I know the whole "don't let him teleport" thing is all the rage, but has it been confirmed yet? The only reason I ask, is because we saw it disappear the other night before our eyes. Apparently, if one person takes the normal/obvious path, when they jump down the chest goes away. Since the hidden chest path is so choppy, any normal attempt to beat the rest of the team on the alt path would result in the chest not being there since they would jump before you got to the chest. I'm just wondering if anyone has convinced the whole team to try the alt path even if the Templar teleported?

The group I did it with last night claimed you can't open the bloom chest so we left it alone and the 5th was there. Whether that part is true or not I have no idea but they claimed they tested it. I could swear I've seen someone open the bloom chest and still get it on youtube though. The don't let him teleport is definitely true or is at least the one constant with every successful occurrence I've ever experienced or heard of.
 

Atkison04

Member
Both are boats, but I'd argue they are pretty dang different boats. Dealing with just a wife/gf is a lot different than having the responsibility of dealing with kids added in to the mix.

And we are blended family. She has 2 kids from her previous marriage. Plus 2 of our own. Blended families are difficult! Holy jeez!
 

Alucrid

Banned
The group I did it with last night claimed you can't open the bloom chest so we left it alone and the 5th was there. Whether that part is true or not I have no idea but they claimed they tested it. I could swear I've seen someone open the bloom chest and still get it on youtube though. The don't let him teleport is definitely true or is at least the one constant with every successful occurrence I've ever experienced or heard of.
no you can open the spirit bloom
 

Bizazedo

Member
Looks to have the same sorry tiny clip as the Shadow Price. I wouldn't touch it without Field Scout

Store bought Vanquisher VIII has a crazy fast reload after a kill. It's better than the store bought Shadow Price as its perks synergize a bit better for PvP.
 
Thanks again man. My main issue with attempting the raid for so long was not having a group of people to play with. I have one person on my friends list that I actually know in real life. I think I have several gaffers on my list from diablo 3 and a few from these threads. Even then it comes to everyone seeming like they already have a crew or something like that. Plus, like you said, the intimidation factor of not wanting to be a weak link on the team due to inexperience. That's my hold up anyway and I'm sure several others. You seem cool though so let me know if you would be down to try one with me. One thing though, would you please say "game over man" if we got wiped because I read all your posts in that voice? Lol

Yeah, the toughest part is getting a group together. It's been a bit easier now that people have raid ready alts and are doing it a few times a week. BUT, it may get harder with some thinking the upcoming patch will take the "fun" out of the raid. I'm always down to raid if I have the time. If I don't accept an invite, it's because I'm going to stop playing soon. And the good thing about having me in the fire team is that you are guaranteed to not be the weakest link. Don't know if I can do the impersonation, but I may just queue up a youtube video to play when we wipe.
 
The group I did it with last night claimed you can't open the bloom chest so we left it alone and the 5th was there. Whether that part is true or not I have no idea but they claimed they tested it. I could swear I've seen someone open the bloom chest and still get it on youtube though. The don't let him teleport is definitely true or is at least the one constant with every successful occurrence I've ever experienced or heard of.

We found out that's not true. Get yo Spirit Bloom.
 

Hoodbury

Member
Haha yeah man, my fault everyone. I usually don't even post and just lurk. Maybe I'm just trying to lure some folks into my fire team (or yours, certainly don't want to lead something I've never done) for a raid attempt >:eek:

If you're ever looking for another for a low key 'just play around in the Raid' person feel free to add and invite me. PSN: Hoodbury.

I've got a very understanding wife who's letting me play more than I should but we also have a 3 year old and a 3 month old so I understand the need to leave at a moments notice and like playing with others who understand that need.
 
The group I did it with last night claimed you can't open the bloom chest so we left it alone and the 5th was there. Whether that part is true or not I have no idea but they claimed they tested it. I could swear I've seen someone open the bloom chest and still get it on youtube though. The don't let him teleport is definitely true or is at least the one constant with every successful occurrence I've ever experienced or heard of.

Definitely can open the bloom chest. I've done it. I'm just wondering if the teleport thing is a constant because if he teleports, you can't convince the whole team to take the alt path. For me it's always been at least one person saying "fuck it, he teleported, useless. I'm going the quick way".

This would also lend credence to having the whole team do something specific together at the platform stage as well.
 

MADGAME

Member
tell me everything about the New Monarchy AutoRifle

It does have a smaller mag than Shadow Price (by 3 bullets iirc), but since you get the last half deals additional damage perk, you will be utilizing the extra damage more often. You also get the kills increase reload speed perk, so both perks help mitigate the slightly smaller mag. You get a another choice between range/accuracy or stability, but imo the stability is fine (stand about 20-30 feet away from a wall and shoot, and look at the spread) so I chose range/accuracy and it's reliable at range.

I own both and personally think it slightly edges out Shadow Price but ymmv.
 

joecanada

Member
Hey did they ghost patch atheon? We couldn't push him off last night. He literally warped through me and back to the middle of platform...
Did it legit anyway.

Still pushed the Templar off lol
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Nope, that's not how it works. You're confusing cumulative probability with a single-event probability. Opening a chest is not the same as coin flipping. Loot from a drop is a single-event, coin flipping is cumulative probability because it has two independent events, heads or tails.

You're trying to make a single-event probability into a cumulative probability.
:-/ No, you're confused about what cumulative probability is. Coin-flipping and dice-rolling (i.e.: chests/drops) can both involve single-event and cumulative probability. Cumulative probability has to do with the cumulative nature of odds when accounting for more than one possible result of a single event. It has nothing to do with the odds of any given result being better or worse the more times the event occurs.

With a coin flip, there's a cumulative 100% chance of getting heads or tails on a given flip. Or to use the much more relevant sort of probability for this game: on a dice roll, there's a cumulative 50% chance of getting either [1 or 2 or 3] or [4 or 5 or 6], because each side of the die has a ~16.6% chance of landing.

Splinter also isn't wrong, he's just talking about something completely different. When you flip a coin (or open a chest) your odds are the same every single time. It's a 1/2 chance of heads, every time. However, if you flip a coin 100 times, the odds of having seen heads any given one of those times are of course higher than if you'd merely flipped the coin twice, even though it's possible to see heads 0 out of 100 times, or 2 out of 2 times. It's like you're trying to tell him he's invoking the gambler's fallacy when in actuality he's just doing this:

1 - (1/2 ^ 100) = ~99.99999...%
i.e., if you flip a coin 100 times there's an extremely close to 100% chance that at least one flip will be heads.

This link explains what I just said and contradicts what you were describing. hopefully this puts the matter to bed.
 

Atkison04

Member
If you're ever looking for another for a low key 'just play around in the Raid' person feel free to add and invite me. PSN: Hoodbury.

I've got a very understanding wife who's letting me play more than I should but we also have a 3 year old and a 3 month old so I understand the need to leave at a moments notice and like playing with others who understand that need.

I will add you and PrivateWHudson when I get online tonight. Thanks guys!
 

kidko

Member
Store bought Vanquisher VIII has a crazy fast reload after a kill. It's better than the store bought Shadow Price as its perks synergize a bit better for PvP.

Yeah, this probably makes it better. I just got so pissed at SP in crucible when I'd have a guy next to death and run out of clip that after the 3rd time it happened, I melted it into ass energy.
 

Hoodbury

Member
It does have a smaller mag than Shadow Price (by 3 bullets iirc), but since you get the last half deals additional damage perk, you will be utilizing the extra damage more often. You also get the kills increase reload speed perk, so both perks help mitigate the slightly smaller mag. You get a another choice between range/accuracy or stability, but imo the stability is fine (stand about 20-30 feet away from a wall and shoot, and look at the spread) so I chose range/accuracy and it's reliable at range.

I own both and personally think it slightly edges out Shadow Price but ymmv.

Lets add some math to this thread to argue this point. :p

If you have a gun with a 40 clip and the last half deals additional damage, you then get 20 bullets dealing extra damage. If you have a gun with a 20 clip you then get 10 bullets dealing extra damage.

Isn't the one with the larger clip doing extra damage more often?

I suck at math
 

Tovarisc

Member
Definitely can open the bloom chest. I've done it. I'm just wondering if the teleport thing is a constant because if he teleports, you can't convince the whole team to take the alt path. For me it's always been at least one person saying "fuck it, he teleported, useless. I'm going the quick way".

This would also lend credence to having the whole team do something specific together at the platform stage as well.

Teleport thing seems to be constant. 5th chest won't be at alternative route if Templar teleports during encounter. At least that is experience of me and group I'm with.

Also I think alternative route, that takes you to 5th chest, is faster than "old way" because it ends right to another chest of Labyrinth. Also it's fast to run through when you learn drops and can fall long segments at once.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Lets add some math to this thread to argue this point. :p

If you have a gun with a 40 clip and the last half deals additional damage, you then get 20 bullets dealing extra damage. If you have a gun with a 20 clip you then get 10 bullets dealing extra damage.

Isn't the one with the larger clip doing extra damage more often?

I suck at math
depends entirely on the rate of fire... :-[

edit: and the reload speed HOLY SHIT WHEN DID I GET THIS AWESOME TAG
 

MADGAME

Member
Lets add some math to this thread to argue this point. :p

If you have a gun with a 40 clip and the last half deals additional damage, you then get 20 bullets dealing extra damage. If you have a gun with a 20 clip you then get 10 bullets dealing extra damage.

Isn't the one with the larger clip doing extra damage more often?

I suck at math

You would have to burn 20 bullets to get the bonus damage in your example, where with the Vanquisher you are burning 12.5 (call it 13) to get to the extra damage. You are getting to the bullets that deal extra damage quicker than the one with a 40 round mag, but the 40 round mag would have more damage dealing bullets.

And yes, to Hawkians point, if the rate of fire is drastically variant then that would also be a factor.
 

doomquake

Member
It does have a smaller mag than Shadow Price (by 3 bullets iirc), but since you get the last half deals additional damage perk, you will be utilizing the extra damage more often. You also get the kills increase reload speed perk, so both perks help mitigate the slightly smaller mag. You get a another choice between range/accuracy or stability, but imo the stability is fine (stand about 20-30 feet away from a wall and shoot, and look at the spread) so I chose range/accuracy and it's reliable at range.

I own both and personally think it slightly edges out Shadow Price but ymmv.

kind of what i felt from simply looking at the stats. im a scout user..shit since beta. i have a nice one - the vanguard thing that makes enemies explode. but a faster fire rate would be nice. im fine with a 27~ bullet mag. started leveling new monarch just for that rifle after i finally took a look at it. wanted the crucible handgun too..but got the thorn exotic so, guess ill make that my handgun.
 

Palmer_v1

Member
I really like Hand Cannons so this is the process I recently went through in my quest to get a good one:

Step 1: Do the ball busting Thorn bounty as a Defender
Step 2: Use the Thorn a lot, even though it's subpar when unleveled
Step 3: Do tons of bounties, etc., to level it up.
Step 4: Spend Ass Energy to max it out
Step 5: Do Nightfall
Step 6: Get Hawkmoon from Nightfall
Step 7: ...
Step 8: Cry tears of joy/rage

1st World Destiny Problems
 

realcZk

Member
I really like Hand Cannons so this is the process I recently went through in my quest to get a good one:

Step 1: Do the ball busting Thorn bounty as a Defender
Step 2: Use the Thorn a lot, even though it's subpar when unleveled
Step 3: Do tons of bounties, etc., to level it up.
Step 4: Spend Ass Energy to max it out
Step 5: Do Nightfall
Step 6: Get Hawkmoon from Nightfall
Step 7: ...
Step 8: Cry tears of joy/rage

Hey it was so worth it, you now have a great HC for PVE and PVP.
 

Deku Tree

Member
Still no patch. I wonder if the Templar cheese caught them off guard and is the cause of the delay.

If anything I'm guessing that the backlash on the internet may have caught them off guard. Did you read Deej's post on the Bungie forums from earlier? It made it sound like they were listening to feedback to some extent. The patch is probably coming when it is ready.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
31 kill streak with Thunderlord
not my video btw

The thing is ridiculous haha
Uh...I had no idea. Yikes.
There are melee kills as a part of that streak, and he also comes like razor-thin-tap-me-on-the-shoulder close to dying at 50 seconds into that video, which was between his second and third kill. I really hope that no heavy weapons are nerfed for the sake of balance in the Crucible, and I say that as someone who honestly never runs an exotic in that slot. Reducing the number of heavy weapon spawns or the amount of ammo per spawn would be a much better idea.
 
Teleport thing seems to be constant. 5th chest won't be at alternative route if Templar teleports during encounter. At least that is experience of me and group I'm with.

Also I think alternative route, that takes you to 5th chest, is faster than "old way" because it ends right to another chest of Labyrinth. Also it's fast to run through when you learn drops and can fall long segments at once.

It's faster to the chest, but not to the appropriate elevation. The 5th chest disappears when someone hits the ground from the jump, not when they get to the other chest, or gorgon area. I'm 95% sure that everyone is right, but I'd love to get one team to let him teleport AND have no-one go the old way. Think I can get 5 other guys to skip the sure fire method and test it? Has your whole group ever gone down the alt path even though he teleported?
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Congrats, Bane.
whoa. Congrats! You're like famous and stuff.
it's just... it's so beautiful...
DB7iYk1.gif
 

Tovarisc

Member
I really hope that no heavy weapons are nerfed for the sake of balance in the Crucible, and I say that as someone who honestly never runs an exotic in that slot. Reducing the number of heavy weapon spawns or the amount of ammo per spawn would be a much better idea.

It's easier to kneejerk nerf sledgehammer weapon [class] stats to the ground than alter map design or map spawns. Vex Mythoclast is showcase of this, it was OP as shit and Bungie over nerfed it in panic mode.

That said Thunderlord seems to be very close to Iron Banner LMG, Jolder's Hammer, when it comes to performance in Crucible. Very similar fire rate, recoil pattern, damage / bullet etc.

Also no weapon or weapon class should be nerfed because PvP. PvP and PvE balance stats should be separate!

Has your whole group ever gone down the alt path even though he teleported?

Yeah. When 5th chest was discovered we did raid soon after. During Templar encounter boss did teleport, but we checked 5th chest spot anyways. All of us.

Chest wasn't there.

On this reset we cheesed Templar to see if chest would be there because, of the cheese, boss didn't teleport once. 5th chest was there and gave us shards / energy.
 

MADGAME

Member
kind of what i felt from simply looking at the stats. im a scout user..shit since beta. i have a nice one - the vanguard thing that makes enemies explode. but a faster fire rate would be nice. im fine with a 27~ bullet mag. started leveling new monarch just for that rifle after i finally took a look at it. wanted the crucible handgun too..but got the thorn exotic so, guess ill make that my handgun.

If the decision for anyone comes down to Shadow Price vs Vanquisher, either choice is a good one.
 
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