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[KINGofCRA5H]

"It was supposed to teleport players randomly, but there's this bug that makes it teleport the three furthest players from the boss."

I'm not a coder or anything, but that sounds hard to believe. I'm more inclined to believe it's a design decision they're no longer happy with.

Oh, wow. I couldn't finish the interview and missed that part........ that's definitely what it is.

 

[EroticSushi]

"It was supposed to teleport players randomly, but there's this bug that makes it teleport the three furthest players from the boss."

I'm not a coder or anything, but that sounds hard to believe. I'm more inclined to believe it's a design decision they're no longer happy with.

Bingo. They initially designed it so that Atheon teleports the 3 farthest people did they not? That wasn't programmed in on it's own. Like everything else, they seem to just be unhappy with how people are playing the game and rather everything just be random.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Who?

Adult film star

 

[scarletham]

"It was supposed to teleport players randomly, but there's this bug that makes it teleport the three furthest players from the boss."

I'm not a coder or anything, but that sounds hard to believe. I'm more inclined to believe it's a design decision they're no longer happy with.

I think what he meant by "unintended element" is that players were supposed to be going about their business (moving randomly, killing mobs), and their method of picking players randomly was to take the three guys farthest from the boss. Instead, we have strats where three guys group up against the back wall.

 

[Jackbooted]

I would put good money on the coming raids being put on farm mode within the week they are released. If Bungie put so much faith in to Vault of Glass and talked it up so much as being ultra hard for it to subsequently be beaten so quickly then you know any claims they make as to difficulty will be skewed.

WoW devs can't even beat their own raids and they know the playerbase is so far beyond their skills in that regard. Bungie thinks they are making hard content that will last until each expansion drops but it just isn't the case as they have completely underestimated real raiders. I don't know who they brought in to "test" these raids but they must have been some pretty incompetent players.

 

[MrMuscle]

Why isn't there a lvl 30 hard mode for missions and strikes?

According to the bug that someone got that locked them out of the tower but showed upcoming DLC content there will be a lvl 26 and lvl 28 strike playlist in future DLCs.

 

[Iceman829]

Need to get my electrolytes to run bounties.

If you guys are running the raid anytime soon and I'm on shoot me an invite. I promise Ill make those jumps, probably won't though, heard there's water under those disappearing platforms.

I know me and Navy Bean (dmh) were planning to do one Friday and/or Saturday. He will most likely do about 12 raids and forget, but I'll be game. I know Guitar has the thirst as well. If you are on you will be receiving an invite. Bring your camel back so your Titan doesn't cramp up.

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

I think what he meant by "unintended element" is that players were supposed to be going about their business (moving randomly, killing mobs), and their method of picking players randomly was to take the three guys farthest from the boss. Instead, we have strats where three guys group up against the back wall.

But that's the thing that Bungie doesn't understand. There is nothing that we as players are "supposed to do". We as players should be able to play the game how we want to play it. Within limits, of course.

 

[Bunta]

Well this is backwards. I can get online on Driveclub, but not Destiny.

 

[scarletham]

But that's the thing that Bungie doesn't understand. There is nothing that we as players are "supposed to do". We as players should be able to play the game how we want to play it. Within limits, of course.

I completely agree.

 

[EL CUCO]

Oh it will.

You think the Vex were tough? The Vex ain't shit. Sure they got Minotaurs/Praetorians with Void shields and Hobgoblins, but the Hive? The Hive got Knights with Arc shields, and Wizards with Solar shields.

If you ever did the Level 26 Summoning Pits Xyor Strike, you know how much a pain in the ass those Wizards can be. The Moon Raid is gonna suck so good.

Hold me. Im scared.


I did the Xyor bounty as a level 28. It was HELL!

 

[Hawkian]

It is either a bug or, given how far that element of the raid strays from their intent, badly designed. Take your pick.

badly designed. glad we cleared that up.

He said it was an "unintended element". Which is basically a bug.

it's not "basically" a bug. it's not a bug in any sense. it's a design element being leveraged by the user in an unintended way. I could give you examples from more basic applications if you want :-/

I think what he meant by "unintended element" is that players were supposed to be going about their business (moving randomly, killing mobs), and their method of picking players randomly was to take the three guys farthest from the boss. Instead, we have strats where three guys group up against the back wall.

nailed it.

But that's the thing that Bungie doesn't understand. There is nothing that we as players are "supposed to do". We as players should be able to play the game how we want to play it. Within limits, of course.

Isn't the "within limits" the entire basis of this discussion? and you even append "of course" to it :-[ i assure you it is not obvious to everyone in this thread that there should by nature be any limitations on the player

 

[commish]

XBone 24 hour check in? No used games? Taking to twitter and stopping Sony from following suit? You can very well complain about things with out trying them.

You are in the minority. You are allowed to have your opinion. You have valid points but so do we. A balance is always preferred. I want Bungie to change and patch things, but they are choosing a lot of dumb stuff to change, especially when it doesn't hurt the game.

Comparing gameplay changes hinted at in an interview vs features of a console announced by MS at a national press conference? Alright, I know when I need to bail out.

 

[Zocano]

I had this game yesterday.

Bungie why.

Spoiler

Look at the final score.

 

[ethomaz]

badly designed. glad we cleared that up.

it's not "basically" a bug. it's not a bug in any sense. it's a design element being leveraged by the user in an unintended way. I could give you examples from more basic applications if you want :-/

nailed it.

Well... the important is they need to fix that and the portal bugs too.

 

[pyrealnova]

I wonder if the coming xpac will increase the soft and hard level caps. XP gains to 30, gear gains to 40.

 

[everyday math]

I had this game yesterday.

Bungie why.

Spoiler

Look at the final score.

Get gud

 

[Swag]

I wonder if the coming xpac will increase the soft and hard level caps. XP gains to 30, gear gains to 40.

I imagine 5 level increases, 10 is quite a lot considering the projected content they plan to ship

 

[Strider]

We experienced all kinds of bugs during the two times we fought Atheon on hard. One of which was new to me and that was that only 2 people got teleported even though all 6 of us were alive.

 

[Bizazedo]

nailed it.

I would rather it be a bug. Not realizing that players would deduce how they're chosen and adapt is .... discouraging.

Isn't the "within limits" the entire basis of this discussion? and you even append "of course" to it :-[ i assure you it is not obvious to everyone in this thread that there should by nature be any limitations on the player

Agree with Hawkien, the "No Fun Allowed" and "Play Our Way" get thrown about too often.

Every raid is going to have limits on the players.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

Just play the levels and do the bounties, all I can suggest.

Don't know how to multi quote, but thanks everyone who replied

 

[Subtervotion]

Comparing gameplay changes hinted at in an interview vs features of a console announced by MS at a national press conference? Alright, I know when I need to bail out.

This is starting to get off topic but there was a very real potential that Sony was looking at similar business decisions. Taking to twitter and 'complaining' before hand worked.

Also you stated "how can you complain about something w/o even trying it?!" and I answered honestly. You can very realistically complain about things before trying them.

 

[Chamber]

"It was supposed to teleport players randomly, but there's this bug that makes it teleport the three furthest players from the boss."

I'm not a coder or anything, but that sounds hard to believe. I'm more inclined to believe it's a design decision they're no longer happy with.

Essentially, they're bothered at how quickly their "toughest challenge ever" was conquered and obliterated and is now being farmed by teams within an hour. At least that's what it reads like.

 

[commish]

I would put good money on the coming raids being put on farm mode within the week they are released. If Bungie put so much faith in to Vault of Glass and talked it up so much as being ultra hard for it to subsequently be beaten so quickly then you know any claims they make as to difficulty will be skewed.

WoW devs can't even beat their own raids and they know the playerbase is so far beyond their skills in that regard. Bungie thinks they are making hard content that will last until each expansion drops but it just isn't the case as they have completely underestimated real raiders. I don't know who they brought in to "test" these raids but they must have been some pretty incompetent players.

I'm also pretty surprised at how easily the raid was defeated. I really hope the next version is harder.

 

[Heel]

Oh, wow. I couldn't finish the interview and missed that part........ that's definitely what it is.

Not a quote from the article, just a general idea that's being portrayed in the thread that it's a bug and not how they had originally designed the teleport to execute.

I think what he meant by "unintended element" is that players were supposed to be going about their business (moving randomly, killing mobs), and their method of picking players randomly was to take the three guys farthest from the boss. Instead, we have strats where three guys group up against the back wall.

I guess certain surprises arise when you throw millions of players at an encounter, but if they intended people to never realize it wasn't truly random...sheesh.

If anything, I think having players naturally find out how the teleporting works and then strategizing "teams" around it would have been clever design. Or I guess in this case, a happy accident that does not need "fixed."

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Because they don't have the right kind of reward system in place to accommodate that.

If you ran a level 30 strike playlist, what would you expect as rewards? Garunteed purples? Exotics? Assendant En/ards?

Don't want to give that stuff out too hastily.

Rewards don't have to be anything special really. For those of us that are level 29/30 it would give us something with matchmaking to play that is challenging. Level 24 is too easy

 

[lunlunqq]

We experienced all kinds of bugs during the two times we fought Atheon on hard. One of which was new to me and that was that only 2 people got teleported even though all 6 of us were alive.

No... it was probably all intended. It's more consistent with the overall game design. Just more randomness.

 

[commish]

This is starting to get off topic but there was a very real potential that Sony was looking at similar business decisions. Taking to twitter and 'complaining' before hand worked.

Also you stated "how can you complain about something w/o even trying it?!" and I answered honestly. You can very realistically complain about things before trying them.

My point is that we don't even know what the mechanic change will be, or even if it will actually happen. Why not wait until it's released, or even announced, before getting upset? It was just mentioned in passing during an interview.

And the kicker is, it would be such a freaking minor change. Defeating this part of the raid is not rocket science. Shoot supplicants, or shoot oracles. If players are not able to adapt, then I don't know what to say.

 

[Bizazedo]

I'm also pretty surprised at how easily the raid was defeated. I really hope the next version is harder.

I will say, I am intrigued as to how they'll make it harder and also still be fair. It's not like this is WoW with HP pools and healers and such. It's an FPS. We're either taking damage or we're not.

If we're not, it's through things like bubbles or barriers or gimmicks like "hit this switch, the City will launch an EMP that stuns the Vex for 30 seconds!" or some nonsense.

If it's barriers.....I dunno, people are always finding ways..

 

[everyday math]

I'm also pretty surprised at how easily the raid was defeated. I really hope the next version is harder.

Same.
I run normal raid with people when I'm bored. Like any normal mission.

Hope the next Raids are improved on.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

Is anyone getting on with their PS4 with persistent tries?

Or is it complete fubar on PSN at this point?

 

[Raxus]

We experienced all kinds of bugs during the two times we fought Atheon on hard. One of which was new to me and that was that only 2 people got teleported even though all 6 of us were alive.

I am convinced bungie would rather fix cheese than try to fix their buggy ass encounters. People in the shield may take splash damage at atheon, less than 3 can be teleported, you may not exit the portal, oracles pop after being destroyed, it is still really hard to tell when an oracle is killed, etc.

I feel like we are beta testers for Destiny 2.

 

[Ken]

i hope we get a mars raid where every boss is valus ta'aurc with escalating HP

 

[scarletham]

I guess certain surprises arise when you throw millions of players at an encounter, but if they intended people to never realize it wasn't truly random...sheesh.

If anything, I think having players naturally find out how the teleporting works and then strategizing "teams" around it would have been clever design. Or I guess in this case, a happy accident that does not need "fixed."

Exactly...

I agree with "happy accident".

A lot of this is reminding me of the random tentacles on the C'Thun fight that took you to his stomach.

 

[super-famicom]

We experienced all kinds of bugs during the two times we fought Atheon on hard. One of which was new to me and that was that only 2 people got teleported even though all 6 of us were alive.

There's some kind of bug that occurs. If you are part of the portal team, but are crouching when the teleport happens, you get left behind. This has happened to me numerous times, but when I stopped crouching I never encountered the problem again.

 

[MrS]

Well... the important is they need to fix that and the portal bugs too.

And the sound bugs. And the Atheon cheese. And the checkpoint swaps. There are lots of problems with the raid. Congratulations to Luke Smith on his promotion!

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

i hope we get a mars raid where every boss is valus ta'aurc with escalating HP

my sarcasm meter just broke

 

[Hawkian]

Well... the important is they need to fix that and the portal bugs too.

The portal bug is MUCH more important. Also, the glitch of people still getting damaged in the relic bubble, seemingly at random, much more important.

But these are actual bugs. You can't just say, oh, after lunch, I think I'll flip the "correct issue #1" switch and then have a coffee break, and then maybe hit "correct issue #2" before going home that day. Some of you out there have done troubleshooting/bug-hunting/debugging yourselves, right? It's not easy or altogether scientific. Sometimes it's not even freaking quantifiable. You might change a whole bunch of stuff you expect to have an impact to no effect, then change one random thing on a whim that makes no sense to find it instantly resolves it. You throw your hands up and go, "well, fuck" and then start testing. There's also shit like Heisenbugs, ever heard of them? The actual process of debugging in real-time can make it more difficult to reproduce a bug which can make it more difficult to eliminate.

It's different than just changing something intended to work differently.

Anecdotally, I haven't had the "going through portal out other side" issue since I was told to never sprint through them.

I would rather it be a bug. Not realizing that players would deduce how they're chosen and adapt is .... discouraging.

Well, I mean, just be discouraged then I guess their testers simply didn't figure it out, and they dubbed it good enough. Nothing in his language whatsoever indicates it's a bug.

Agree with Hawkien, the "No Fun Allowed" and "Play Our Way" get thrown about too often.

Every raid is going to have limits on the players.

just so much stomping on goombas :X

 

[BigShow36]

To anyone who's been a Halo fan for a while, this all pretty standard Bungie stuff. Don't expect anything major to actually get fixed.

 

[NastyBook]

FUCK! You can't switch characters without getting booted? Come the FUCK ON, Sony. >_<

EDIT: Guess I can finally play Ground Zeroes now...

 

[everyday math]

i hope we get a mars raid where every boss is valus ta'aurc with escalating HP

 

[commish]

I will say, I am intrigued as to how they'll make it harder and also still be fair. It's not like this is WoW with HP pools and healers and such. It's an FPS. We're either taking damage or we're not.

If we're not, it's through things like bubbles or barriers or gimmicks like "hit this switch, the City will launch an EMP that stuns the Vex for 30 seconds!" or some nonsense.

If it's barriers.....I dunno, people are always finding ways..

Requiring players to do different mechanics will make it harder, maybe require the use of different weapon types, at a minimum, within the same encounter. I'm really surprised that wasn't a feature of this raid. Or maybe they could place a premium on ammo, so accuracy with your weapon matters. Implementing more HP on mobs is a poor way to make it harder, so I hope it's not that.

 

[Marvel]

Is anyone getting on with their PS4 with persistent tries?

Or is it complete fubar on PSN at this point?

Gave up.

Making sharefactory vids instead.

EDIT: Guess I can finally play Ground Zeroes now...

Amazing game.

 

[LiK]

when PSN is back up:

alright Raid crew, i'm home and i'm willing to go one hour early so 6PM EST if you guys are ready. i'll be on idling around then waiting for Figs to invite me.

 

[TheContact]

Anyone need a 28 sunsinger warlock for normal vault of glass? I haven't done it before would really like to see it. PSN is carfo

 

[everyday math]

when PSN is back up:

alright Raid crew, i'm home and i'm willing to go one hour early so 6PM EST if you guys are ready. i'll be on idling around then waiting for Figs to invite me.

I'm join. Just normal raid right?

 

[Warnen]

With all the problems on psn starting to wish I got this for the Xbox one...

 

[TheTylerDurden]

Gave up.

Making sharefactory vids instead.

Odd that I can get to the character select screen but no further. I think it's a PSN to Bungie authentication problem tied to PSN, and not real connectivity. Sux.

 

[Union Carbine]

I'm fine if they "fix" the raid and I'm fine if they don't. At least on the normal raid, I feel like I've got the role I'm in mastered. A little mix-it-up won't hurt and, in the end, I'll be better for it because, instead of mastering one half of the encounter, I'll have learned the full thing. That said, if they choose not to, it doesn't diminish anything for me.

 

[keakster]

Is anyone getting on with their PS4 with persistent tries?

Or is it complete fubar on PSN at this point?

fubar for me for the past hour