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Destiny |OT8| Whine and Cheese

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JayEH

Junior Member
Only one.

Oh ok thought there was one on the moon that was exclusive too for some reason. So it looks like 1 strike, 1 crucible map, and some exotics?

May not seem like much but with a game with so little content it makes a difference.
 
Haha thanks. Maybe at least a scene where we find a way out or the ghosts of dead raiders thanks us or a commercial for the next raid.

LOL yeah seriously what is up with that?!

You beat the highest pinnacle of launch Destiny, the raid. You see Aetheon go down and melt into oblivion. Being conditioned by other games, you expect some sort of epic cut scene with the Vault crumbling around you, or some sort of cliff-hanger with a 'man behind the mask' theme where you realize that Aetheon was just a pawn of some supremely powerful overlord that you'll fight later (perhaps in DLC 10 - the level 50 expansion).

What happens? Chadderwhite pops up, and the screen says 'mission end'. And you dance in an empty Vault with nothing to do and nowhere to go.

Anticlimactic, what does it mean?

It's always been this shitty.

Getting pissed about it now that i'm paying for it. They better get their shit together.


This is really still a thing? I pretty much only play offline/single player on playstation so I wouldn't know. It would be pretty hilarious if Xbox Live ends up being a system seller for the one. I'm only half serious though, but that would be really odd.
 
Yeah, the boring 'have to do shit' is what is going to kill Destiny if they don't do something about it soon.

Why on god's green Earth you would make a game with such solid, on-point gunplay then make players drive around on their speeder for hours on end to 'farm' spinmetal/relic iron/etc just to upgrade their gear is fucking beyond me. I absolutely detest that element of the game and it's getting to the point where I don't even WANT the last few pieces of gear that I would need to get my two alts to 30, because that would mean having to grind boring-ass bounties and farming materials to upgrade the gear.

Things that need to change:

1. Every time you kill a major or higher level enemy (yellow health bars), they should drop at least 2 pieces of whatever that planet's material is. If I kill a hive major on Cosmodrome, for instance, I should get 2 spinmetal minimum, guaranteed.

2. The raid needs have the artificial restriction of only one completion per character per week for loot removed. I get messages all the time from randoms at the tower wanting someone for the raid, but I'm like 'done it already, no point in doing it again'. Is this really how you want people playing your game Bungie? Because if I could get loot again, I'd be more inclined to run it with these randoms. If people had a better chance at finding others willing to run the raid with them even despite the lack of matchmaking, ESPECIALLY if they haven't been able to do it prior to that point, they might stay on Destiny rather than moving on in Oct/Nov when all the new games are out.

3. Materials for upgrading need to be streamlined. Why the fuck do we need four different materials (on top of the class-specific breakdown bits and weapon parts), and seeminly no consistency with which one is needed for any given weapon or armor piece? We could've done just fine with two, one for weapons, and the other for armor.

4. Speaking of which, allow us to convert armor breakdown materials (hadronic essences, plasteel plating, sapphire wire) into one of the other two types, possibly at a 2-to-1 exchange rate. I have over 900 hadronic essence due to my main being a warlock, but I once again consider quitting Destiny when I realize I need to farm greens and engrams just to break them down for plasteel plating to upgrade my titan's gear. This shit is ridiculous.


These things need to change quickly or I have a feeling Destiny will be hemorrhaging droves of players when new games come out. They are pointless grinds just for the sake of trying to force gamers to play the game longer, and will ultimately have the opposite effect. Bring more raids and strikes to the game and minimize or even (ghasp) eliminate these mind-numbingly boring aspects of the game, and people might just stick around, and even maybe help randoms get a chance at seeing the TRUE Destiny (aka the raid).

I like some of your thinking here. Especially No.1
 

TTG

Member
Any chance Xur's engram for purchase is a weapon exotic this time around? I would enjoy that, I have many a mote.
 
Almost got my Suros maxed out. It takes a little while getting used to the slower fire rate upgrade but once you do, oh boy. This gun wrecks in PVP.

Gonna max out my Icebreaker and the Vision of Confluence after this. Hope I start getting energies now that I've reached level 30. No real need for shards now.
 

breakfuss

Member
Is it worth leveling a scout rifle? Do people really use these, lol? I have the crypt dweller from dead orbit. Thinking about leveling just for the sake of having it in my arsenal but I just can't see myself ever doing much with it.
 
I like some of your thinking here. Especially No.1

Yeah most of it's probably expecting too much, and 2 material for every Major/higher kill is probably too much considering if you do the raid you'd be sitting on more spiritbloom than you would ever know what to do with, but meeting us somewhere in the middle would be nice. How bout a 25% chance to get that planet's material on a major/higher kill, and if material drops you have a shot at anywhere from 1 to 3 in quantity. I think that would be the absolute minimum odds to make it worthwhile farming enemies by doing strikes/whatnot for materials (and thereby enjoying the game's gunplay rather than the idiocy that is 'loot chest runs').

Is it worth leveling a scout rifle? Do people really use these, lol? I have the crypt dweller from dead orbit. Thinking about leveling just for the sake of having it in my arsenal but I just can't see myself ever doing much with it.

It depends. Do you have Suros Regime? If you do then it's pretty pointless. Scout rifles are ok in PvP but even with the auto rifle nerf, ARs are still the recommended primary in PvP. In PvE, I've always been a scout rifle user and still run one as my primary. But if you're usually an AR guy and are used to them, it's probably not worth upgrading that. The only scout rifle I would always tell someone to upgrade if they get it is the Vision of Confluence from the raid. It's pretty much the best scout rifle in the game IMHO. I haven't tried the multitool but I don't think it would be worth wasting the exotic slot for that when Icebreaker and Gjallarhorn are the go-to exotics for raiding.

Ever since I started running the VoC scout rifle, I've more or less begun breaking down any legendary scout rifles I happen to get as drops. I never saw a single legendary one drop until AFTER I had my VoC, unforunately, but I seem to get a lot these days lol.
 

vakarian32

Member
Almost maxed my vanguard marks for the week so i need to buy something. what should i get gaf? My options are either the devil you know, proxima centauri or the swarm.
 
Yeah, the boring 'have to do shit' is what is going to kill Destiny if they don't do something about it soon.

Why on god's green Earth you would make a game with such solid, on-point gunplay then make players drive around on their speeder for hours on end to 'farm' spinmetal/relic iron/etc just to upgrade their gear is fucking beyond me. I absolutely detest that element of the game and it's getting to the point where I don't even WANT the last few pieces of gear that I would need to get my two alts to 30, because that would mean having to grind boring-ass bounties and farming materials to upgrade the gear.

Things that need to change:

1. Every time you kill a major or higher level enemy (yellow health bars), they should drop at least 2 pieces of whatever that planet's material is. If I kill a hive major on Cosmodrome, for instance, I should get 2 spinmetal minimum, guaranteed.

2. The raid needs have the artificial restriction of only one completion per character per week for loot removed. I get messages all the time from randoms at the tower wanting someone for the raid, but I'm like 'done it already, no point in doing it again'. Is this really how you want people playing your game Bungie? Because if I could get loot again, I'd be more inclined to run it with these randoms. If people had a better chance at finding others willing to run the raid with them even despite the lack of matchmaking, ESPECIALLY if they haven't been able to do it prior to that point, they might stay on Destiny rather than moving on in Oct/Nov when all the new games are out.

3. Materials for upgrading need to be streamlined. Why the fuck do we need four different materials (on top of the class-specific breakdown bits and weapon parts), and seeminly no consistency with which one is needed for any given weapon or armor piece? We could've done just fine with two, one for weapons, and the other for armor.

4. Speaking of which, allow us to convert armor breakdown materials (hadronic essences, plasteel plating, sapphire wire) into one of the other two types, possibly at a 2-to-1 exchange rate. I have over 900 hadronic essence due to my main being a warlock, but I once again consider quitting Destiny when I realize I need to farm greens and engrams just to break them down for plasteel plating to upgrade my titan's gear. This shit is ridiculous.


These things need to change quickly or I have a feeling Destiny will be hemorrhaging droves of players when new games come out. They are pointless grinds just for the sake of trying to force gamers to play the game longer, and will ultimately have the opposite effect. Bring more raids and strikes to the game and minimize or even (ghasp) eliminate these mind-numbingly boring aspects of the game, and people might just stick around, and even maybe help randoms get a chance at seeing the TRUE Destiny (aka the raid).

VJ0TRao.gif
 
This is really still a thing? I pretty much only play offline/single player on playstation so I wouldn't know. It would be pretty hilarious if Xbox Live ends up being a system seller for the one. I'm only half serious though, but that would be really odd.

I've always exclusively only had Playstation consoles. Never had an Xbox so i can only give a PS side of things.

PS3 had issues, PS4 has more IMHO than what PS3 did.
 

Futaba

Member
Yeah, the boring 'have to do shit' is what is going to kill Destiny if they don't do something about it soon.

Why on god's green Earth you would make a game with such solid, on-point gunplay then make players drive around on their speeder for hours on end to 'farm' spinmetal/relic iron/etc just to upgrade their gear is fucking beyond me. I absolutely detest that element of the game and it's getting to the point where I don't even WANT the last few pieces of gear that I would need to get my two alts to 30, because that would mean having to grind boring-ass bounties and farming materials to upgrade the gear.

Things that need to change:

1. Every time you kill a major or higher level enemy (yellow health bars), they should drop at least 2 pieces of whatever that planet's material is. If I kill a hive major on Cosmodrome, for instance, I should get 2 spinmetal minimum, guaranteed.

2. The raid needs have the artificial restriction of only one completion per character per week for loot removed. I get messages all the time from randoms at the tower wanting someone for the raid, but I'm like 'done it already, no point in doing it again'. Is this really how you want people playing your game Bungie? Because if I could get loot again, I'd be more inclined to run it with these randoms. If people had a better chance at finding others willing to run the raid with them even despite the lack of matchmaking, ESPECIALLY if they haven't been able to do it prior to that point, they might stay on Destiny rather than moving on in Oct/Nov when all the new games are out.

3. Materials for upgrading need to be streamlined. Why the fuck do we need four different materials (on top of the class-specific breakdown bits and weapon parts), and seeminly no consistency with which one is needed for any given weapon or armor piece? We could've done just fine with two, one for weapons, and the other for armor.

4. Speaking of which, allow us to convert armor breakdown materials (hadronic essences, plasteel plating, sapphire wire) into one of the other two types, possibly at a 2-to-1 exchange rate. I have over 900 hadronic essence due to my main being a warlock, but I once again consider quitting Destiny when I realize I need to farm greens and engrams just to break them down for plasteel plating to upgrade my titan's gear. This shit is ridiculous.


These things need to change quickly or I have a feeling Destiny will be hemorrhaging droves of players when new games come out. They are pointless grinds just for the sake of trying to force gamers to play the game longer, and will ultimately have the opposite effect. Bring more raids and strikes to the game and minimize or even (ghasp) eliminate these mind-numbingly boring aspects of the game, and people might just stick around, and even maybe help randoms get a chance at seeing the TRUE Destiny (aka the raid).

Another solution would be to leave it as is, just make the bosses drop only ascendant energy/shards on repeat play throughs.
they need to lower the requirement of planet specific materials though, or at least allow people to buy them from the vangard robot that trades them for marks, it's not like we have much else to spend glimmer on once you get to raiding level.
 

WITHE1982

Member
Is it worth leveling a scout rifle? Do people really use these, lol? I have the crypt dweller from dead orbit. Thinking about leveling just for the sake of having it in my arsenal but I just can't see myself ever doing much with it.

I just need one more upgrade to max out my crypt dweller and it's a fantastic weapon. With the recent buff I think it's wise to have at least 1 good scout in your arsenal. They're essential for raids and, when used alongside a decent sniper rifle, make you an absolute beast from distance.

I just got the Cryptic Dragon drop from a purple engram and, when fully upgraded, has a maxed out range and very good impact. So looking forward to leveling that one up too.

Also someone who can skillfully wield a scout rifle can also wreck stuff in PVP.

#scoutrifle4lyf
 
Sorry just getting back to this now, no i didn't skip any parts of the raid, done a full run BUT all parts apart from the last boss was done with one group, then with another group i done Atheon.

If i remember correctly though i may have missed the portal phase before Atheon, but that doesn't give you loot does it?

Yes, there is a loot drop for the Gatekeepers phase before Atheon. The 4 loop drops are:

1.) Beat Oracles phase at Templar
2.) Beat Templar boss
3.) Beat Gatekeepers at Atheon area
4.) Beat Atheon

Is it worth leveling a scout rifle? Do people really use these, lol? I have the crypt dweller from dead orbit. Thinking about leveling just for the sake of having it in my arsenal but I just can't see myself ever doing much with it.

The raid scout rifle, Vision of Confluence, is hot shit. Definitely worth maxing if you run the raid a lot, or just PvE in general. They all suck for PvP though imo.
 

jadedm17

Member
That was very well said; my friends and I have been talking for days about that Bungie added things for the sake of something to do. Honestly thought the raid part - like lack of trading for another example - makes sense to me for the fact of keeping item distribution easier to manage.

I just need one more upgrade to max out my crypt dweller and it's a fantastic weapon. With the recent buff I think it's wise to have at least 1 good scout in your arsenal. They're essential for raids and, when used alongside a decent sniper rifle, make you an absolute beast from distance.

I just got the Cryptic Dragon drop from a purple engram and, when fully upgraded, has a maxed out range and very good impact. So looking forward to leveling that one up too.

Also someone who can skillfully wield a scout rifle can also wreck stuff in PVP.

#scoutrifle4lyf

For PVE I've found my hand cannon - Lord High Fixer - to be of more use than scout rifles but that could be chalked up to personal preference.
 
Another solution would be to leave it as is, just make the bosses drop only ascendant energy/shards on repeat play throughs.
they need to lower the requirement of planet specific materials though, or at least allow people to buy them from the vangard robot that trades them for marks, it's not like we have much else to spend glimmer on once you get to raiding level.

Buying them using marks would be a perfectly acceptable alternative. End-game players that are routinely upgrading 'alternate' armor pieces to test out different builds (STR/INT vs INT/DEX vs all INT, etc) wound finally have some use for vanguard/crucible marks, and we wouldn't have to do afore-mentioned 'boring grind loot chest runs' for hours. Anything that works to remove that asinine element from the game so that I can log on and PLAY instead of FARM would be fantastic.
 
Yes, there is a loot drop for the Gatekeepers phase before Atheon. The 4 loop drops are:

1.) Beat Oracles phase at Templar
2.) Beat Templar boss
3.) Beat Gatekeepers at Atheon area
4.) Beat Atheon.

Damn Looks like i'll be doing the raid again then :p

Yeah most of it's probably expecting too much, and 2 material for every Major/higher kill is probably too much considering if you do the raid you'd be sitting on more spiritbloom than you would ever know what to do with, but meeting us somewhere in the middle would be nice. How bout a 25% chance to get that planet's material on a major/higher kill, and if material drops you have a shot at anywhere from 1 to 3 in quantity. I think that would be the absolute minimum odds to make it worthwhile farming enemies by doing strikes/whatnot for materials (and thereby enjoying the game's gunplay rather than the idiocy that is 'loot chest runs').

Yea even that is still a decent compromise. Farming is a chore when there is no real gain in it. At least in WoW you could make gold from farming to enable you to purchase other things, in Destiny? Nada.
 
Yeah, the boring 'have to do shit' is what is going to kill Destiny if they don't do something about it soon.

Why on god's green Earth you would make a game with such solid, on-point gunplay then make players drive around on their speeder for hours on end to 'farm' spinmetal/relic iron/etc just to upgrade their gear is fucking beyond me. I absolutely detest that element of the game and it's getting to the point where I don't even WANT the last few pieces of gear that I would need to get my two alts to 30, because that would mean having to grind boring-ass bounties and farming materials to upgrade the gear.

Things that need to change:

1. Every time you kill a major or higher level enemy (yellow health bars), they should drop at least 2 pieces of whatever that planet's material is. If I kill a hive major on Cosmodrome, for instance, I should get 2 spinmetal minimum, guaranteed.

2. The raid needs have the artificial restriction of only one completion per character per week for loot removed. I get messages all the time from randoms at the tower wanting someone for the raid, but I'm like 'done it already, no point in doing it again'. Is this really how you want people playing your game Bungie? Because if I could get loot again, I'd be more inclined to run it with these randoms. If people had a better chance at finding others willing to run the raid with them even despite the lack of matchmaking, ESPECIALLY if they haven't been able to do it prior to that point, they might stay on Destiny rather than moving on in Oct/Nov when all the new games are out.

3. Materials for upgrading need to be streamlined. Why the fuck do we need four different materials (on top of the class-specific breakdown bits and weapon parts), and seeminly no consistency with which one is needed for any given weapon or armor piece? We could've done just fine with two, one for weapons, and the other for armor.

4. Speaking of which, allow us to convert armor breakdown materials (hadronic essences, plasteel plating, sapphire wire) into one of the other two types, possibly at a 2-to-1 exchange rate. I have over 900 hadronic essence due to my main being a warlock, but I once again consider quitting Destiny when I realize I need to farm greens and engrams just to break them down for plasteel plating to upgrade my titan's gear. This shit is ridiculous.


These things need to change quickly or I have a feeling Destiny will be hemorrhaging droves of players when new games come out. They are pointless grinds just for the sake of trying to force gamers to play the game longer, and will ultimately have the opposite effect. Bring more raids and strikes to the game and minimize or even (ghasp) eliminate these mind-numbingly boring aspects of the game, and people might just stick around, and even maybe help randoms get a chance at seeing the TRUE Destiny (aka the raid).

Yuuuuuup

Fuck material grinding. Getting the xp on items (to get them to do the damn thing they're supposed to do) takes long enough already. They should either be raining down or not exist. Did they really intentionally design these farming runs with wacky ass respawning chests or is it an odd coincidence? If I could just get materials killing shit my time in explore mode would be 0.
 

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.

NastyBook

Member
Most materials can be gathered easily but I absolutely hate farming Helium Filaments and the moon in general.
I don't have a problem with Helium Filaments, myself. It's Relic Iron in the day time on Mars that pisses me off. At night, it's fucking bliss, though. Mainly because it's beautiful at night on Mars.
 

WITHE1982

Member
Better not get another class' armor from my exotic engram this week.

Look on the bright side my friend. It'll either give you a leg up when creating an alt or you're basically exchanging 23 motes for 3 ass shards (one you break down the armor). Either way it's a plus given that motes are pretty much useless for anything else.

I don't have a problem with Helium Filaments, myself. It's Relic Iron in the day time on Mars that pisses me off. At night, it's fucking bliss, though. Mainly because it's beautiful at night on Mars.

Are you using the chest run on mars? I've always found relic iron to be the easiest to get TBH.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9PpDdoWzQc
 
Yuuuuuup

Fuck material grinding. Getting the xp on items (to get them to do the damn thing they're supposed to do) takes long enough already. They should either be raining down or not exist. Did they really intentionally design these farming runs with wacky ass respawning chests or is it an odd coincidence? If I could just get materials killing shit my time in explore mode would be 0.

Oh don't get me started on bounties. They're just as deplorable as material grinding. What's that you say? You're level 30 and you already have a Praedyth's Revenge, but you want to test out that new sniper? Hold on, you can't compare them until you get the new one up to 300 damage so you can see the differences between them in a fair light!

Speaking of upgrading alternate gear, given the fact that end-game players get next to no experience from killing vanilla enemies, and have little to no incentive to do the raid multiple times or even bother touching the level 24 strike playlist, there needs to be a FASTER METHOD FOR UPGRADING ALTERNATE WEAPONS/ITEMS than bounties.

The bounty system is atrocious. It's fine for 'younger' players, but when you've got three raid-ready toons at level 28-30, it makes absolutely no sense to force you to do 'patrol the cosmodrome' or 'kill 10 hive majors' or 'do story mission X for the 100th time, on heroic'.

It forces us to do the unthinkable and migrate our new weapons to alts so we can run the same 5 bounties 3 times in one day, just to level up a new weapon to see if we like it! Because you can't accurately compare a freshly-dropped legendary sniper that isn't maxed out to your already-maxed 300/300 damage sniper. You have to upgrade the new one to compare them properly.

FFS Bungie, fix this garbage or the only time you'll see some players is when we come back to check out the new raid with each DLC, then promptly leave again.
 

Tokubetsu

Member
All the farming materials/planets are all about finding your circle. I have a loop I do for every planet and with Venus I have it down for the entire free roam zone. I fucking hate farming but I'm a slave to this game so I'll do it.

Leveling my alt, the hardest part is the class item needed for upgrades. I have something close to 500 hadronic essence for my main warlock. I'll never run out. My lvl 27 Hunter on the other hand? Constantly at 0 wire as I try to upgrade/get raid gear. I've been spending all my glimmer at vendors buying greens to dismantle.

No EXP from raid is also supreme bullshit. I "get" not giving me loot but I'm already at 2 normal runs this week and have no interest in doing it again unless it's a hard raid for my main. This sucks because I have a bunch of friends who ask me every other day to raid with them but I just don't care to since I would get nothing out of the 1-2 hours it'd take to do it with them.
 

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Everyday I earn at least 15 Ascendant materials

+6 from Daily (3 Characters)
+3 Guaranteed from Public Time Events
+3-4 from PTE grind for 30 minutes on all 3 chars, so roughly 1.5 hours
Then 1-3 from chests, yes chests have started giving me them to me recently
 

Tokubetsu

Member
Everyday I earn at least 15 Ascendant materials

+6 from Daily (3 Characters)
+3 Guaranteed from Public Time Events
+3-4 from PTE grind for 30 minutes on all 3 chars, so roughly 1.5 hours
Then 1-3 from chests, yes chests have started giving me them to me recently

Yeah they were a problem on my main but since I created a new character and got her to twenty it's been raiding ascendant mats. Sitting on a lot of energy right now too since
A) Weapons take fucking forver to level
B) I'm picky about "wasting" asc mats on weapons
 

Dahbomb

Member
Yeah, the boring 'have to do shit' is what is going to kill Destiny if they don't do something about it soon.

Why on god's green Earth you would make a game with such solid, on-point gunplay then make players drive around on their speeder for hours on end to 'farm' spinmetal/relic iron/etc just to upgrade their gear is fucking beyond me. I absolutely detest that element of the game and it's getting to the point where I don't even WANT the last few pieces of gear that I would need to get my two alts to 30, because that would mean having to grind boring-ass bounties and farming materials to upgrade the gear.

Things that need to change:

1. Every time you kill a major or higher level enemy (yellow health bars), they should drop at least 2 pieces of whatever that planet's material is. If I kill a hive major on Cosmodrome, for instance, I should get 2 spinmetal minimum, guaranteed.

2. The raid needs have the artificial restriction of only one completion per character per week for loot removed. I get messages all the time from randoms at the tower wanting someone for the raid, but I'm like 'done it already, no point in doing it again'. Is this really how you want people playing your game Bungie? Because if I could get loot again, I'd be more inclined to run it with these randoms. If people had a better chance at finding others willing to run the raid with them even despite the lack of matchmaking, ESPECIALLY if they haven't been able to do it prior to that point, they might stay on Destiny rather than moving on in Oct/Nov when all the new games are out.

3. Materials for upgrading need to be streamlined. Why the fuck do we need four different materials (on top of the class-specific breakdown bits and weapon parts), and seeminly no consistency with which one is needed for any given weapon or armor piece? We could've done just fine with two, one for weapons, and the other for armor.

4. Speaking of which, allow us to convert armor breakdown materials (hadronic essences, plasteel plating, sapphire wire) into one of the other two types, possibly at a 2-to-1 exchange rate. I have over 900 hadronic essence due to my main being a warlock, but I once again consider quitting Destiny when I realize I need to farm greens and engrams just to break them down for plasteel plating to upgrade my titan's gear. This shit is ridiculous.


These things need to change quickly or I have a feeling Destiny will be hemorrhaging droves of players when new games come out. They are pointless grinds just for the sake of trying to force gamers to play the game longer, and will ultimately have the opposite effect. Bring more raids and strikes to the game and minimize or even (ghasp) eliminate these mind-numbingly boring aspects of the game, and people might just stick around, and even maybe help randoms get a chance at seeing the TRUE Destiny (aka the raid).
ibnJhT5q4E21up.gif


This and probably 20 other things the game needs in terms of quality of life changes to be considered a decent game.
 

JayEH

Junior Member
I wonder when Activision will get smart and start having micro transactions. Not saying it's the right thing to do but you would think a company like Activision would be all over that.

Edit: Xur time! Time to look for where everyone on the tower is huddled up lol.
 

Feorax

Member
After all the problems with PSN last night, I went to bed thinking I'll just see Xur and do whatever I have time for this morning.

Wake up this morning to find Sky have fucked up routine maintenance and the internet has been down for most of NW England since 5am.

Got half an hour now before I have to go to work. Fucking livid.
 
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