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Destiny |OT8| Whine and Cheese

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rdrr gnr

Member
I can't imagine that anyone who's actually done the raid wants matchmaking for it.
One is likely to be more patient and have more fun with a regular group, but after having completed the raid multiple times, I am now for matchmaking -- at least for normal mode.

Same for the Nightfall and the Weekly.

I'm sure people would still get mad, rage, and quit -- whatever, but the main obstacle of the "difficulty" just isn't there. Here's the strategy for literally all of Destiny's content: "Don't die." That's about it. It's literally a numbers game: having six means you win, having less than six means you'll likely lose. If you can manage not to die progression simply becomes a matter of time. The independent players need to be skilled and aware and coordinated, but that's not the same as intricate teamwork. Some of the cheese methods require more strategy than the normal means. This is why the Heroic Raid is a bit dumb. Not only does the respawn restriction put disproportionate emphasis on the Warlock class (every super is a free mulligan), but the added difficulty is a bit artificial. The way you acquire level 30 gear is unreliable and limited thus the more under-leveled you are the harder the raid is. Atheon's final run, and even the gatekeeper part (sorta) is how the entirety of the raid should be designed. The difficulty is in the timing and teamwork with the final boss being relatively easy and by no means a bullet sponge. Success is tied to the execution of mechanics rather than being a certain level and managing not to die.
 
Thorn, Bad Juju and the last one is Invective.

Invective is easily the simplest to complete and its pretty damn good. The other two are gonna get buffed so if you want a cool looking hand cannon/pulse rifle to stash away for later then go for it.

I had the choice of those twice and went with thorn and bad juju in the hope that they over buff them :p

Besides, I've got Found Verdict (Gotten it twice Goddammit) which is pretty decent as a shotgun.
 

Zakalwe

Banned
One is likely to be more patient and have more fun with a regular group, but after having completed the raid multiple times, I am now for matchmaking -- at least for normal mode.

Same for the Nightfall and the Weekly.

I'm sure people would still get mad, rage, and quit -- whatever, but the main obstacle of the "difficulty" just isn't there. Here's the strategy for literally all of Destiny's content: "Don't die." That's about it. It's literally a numbers game: having six means you win, having less than six means you'll likely lose. If you can manage not to die progression simply becomes a matter of time. The independent players need to be skilled and aware and coordinated, but that's not the same as intricate teamwork. Some of the cheese methods require more strategy than the normal means. This is why the Heroic Raid is a bit dumb. Not only does the respawn restriction put disproportionate emphasis on the Warlock class (every super is a free mulligan), but the added difficulty is a bit artificial. The way you acquire level 30 gear is unreliable and limited thus the more under-leveled you are the harder the raid is. Atheon's final run, and even the gatekeeper part (sorta) is how the entirety of the raid should be designed. The difficulty is in the timing and teamwork with the final boss being relatively easy and by no means a bullet sponge. Success is tied to the execution of mechanics rather than being a certain level and managing not to die.

MM for the raid is a bad idea, imo. Detailed reasoning here.

Weekly 100% yes.

Nightfall ok, but maybe with a warning screen that pops up letting players know about the no death rule and that the content is recommended for a pre-made party.
 

amar212

Member
This game needs an ARCADE MODE.

Let us call it GUARDIAN ACADEMY MODE.

It should be unlocked once you finish all story missions and active afterwards.

Basically, there should be some points involved for killings, based on efficiency and such:

- kill - 10 pts
- skill kill - 10 pts
- headshot - 30 pts
- super kill - 50 pts

And then to add Combo Multiplier based on chain killings (X2, X3, X4..) with usual cooldown period

Every mission should be having those points running on background with ability to have them displayed during activity or not.

After the mission, you are getting some rewards based on the performance

And of course, there should be Friends Leaderboards, as well as Personal Record and so on.

It would give additional "game within a game" content and would make some proper initiative to play either missions, strikes, etc on regular basis with some neat goal.
 
What makes invective so good? I have it myself but just don't use shotguns too much. I was gonna dismantle it for ass but though I'd hold onto it given everyone's love-in with it.

If you play Crucible, it's a monster once you get the Send It perk (increase range and accuracy). I went on a 16 kill-streak with 32 kills in Crucible with a stock Invective (pre-patch).

Post-patch, I'm putting together a video and it's still wrecking. 20% damage drop off at range? No problem for the Invective.
 

hydruxo

Member
What makes invective so good? I have it myself but just don't use shotguns too much. I was gonna dismantle it for ass but though I'd hold onto it given everyone's love-in with it.

Full-auto shotgun that regenerates ammo.

I prefer Found Verdict (the raid shotgun, which is also full auto) because Invective's reload is super slow compared to FV's, but Invective is a solid gun
 

CaptDjob

Neo Member
MM for the raid is a bad idea, imo. Detailed reasoning here.

Weekly 100% yes.

Nightfall ok, but maybe with a warning screen that pops up letting players know about the no death rule and that the content is recommended for a pre-made party.

If matchmaking, then level requirement should be even with mission so 28 for Nightfall or maybe 27. Otherwise it won't work.
 

Skele7on

Banned
Why not level it up fully, then let it rot
It's meh due to small clip, but it worked well for me in Rumble

Good to know that it isn't that bad then! I may do it after I finish Atheons epilogue.
Already got Shadow Price fully maxed it's sooo amazing.

Just need to get Ice Breaker done also now too and the raid sniper ( I forgot the name :\)
 

WITHE1982

Member
If you play Crucible, it's a monster once you get the Send It perk (increase range and accuracy). I went on a 16 kill-streak with 32 kills in Crucible with a stock Invective (pre-patch)

Post-patch, I'm putting together a video and it's still wrecking. 20% damage drop off at range? No problem for the Invective.

Full-auto shotgun that regenerates ammo.

I prefer Found Verdict (the raid shotgun which is also full auto) because Invective's reload is super slow compared to FV's, but Invective is a solid gun

Thanks guys. Not played any PVP for a few days but will definitely give it the old college try. Full auto mode + range do sound pretty fine.
 

rdrr gnr

Member
MM for the raid is a bad idea, imo. Detailed reasoning here.

Weekly 100% yes.

Nightfall ok, but maybe with a warning screen that pops up letting players know about the no death rule and that the content is recommended for a pre-made party.
Yeah. This is reasoning I've heard before and it's fine. In theory, that's absolutely right, but a de facto evaluation of the game's current content leads to a different conclusion. The normal mode raid just isn't a challenge if you are the right level. You could match-make "fireteams" instead of individuals which would lessen the burden for some. You could require that an individual be over-leveled. I think people are lot more informed than they were in the early days of WoW or other games. And there is like zero specialization or role-playing in terms of encounter design (though of course some encounters favor certain classes). Because everyone's role is to 1. Not die and 2. Shoot things, class composition is a bit irrelevant, again on easier difficulties. This week's weekly was harder than both the Nightfall and the Normal mode raid, it's dumb.
 

Zakalwe

Banned
If matchmaking, then level requirement should be even with mission so 28 for Nightfall or maybe 27. Otherwise it won't work.

Absolutley.

What makes invective so good? I have it myself but just don't use shotguns too much. I was gonna dismantle it for ass but though I'd hold onto it given everyone's love-in with it.

Burst fire (can double tap two shots very quickly if you don't like all four bursts at once).
Range.

If you like shotguns in pve then the regen is great. I really like it.

Yeah. This is reasoning I've heard before and it's fine. In theory, that's absolutely right, but a de facto evaluation of the game's current content leads to a different conclusion. The normal mode raid just isn't a challenge if you are the right level. You could match-make "fireteams" instead of individuals which would lessen the burden for some. You could require that an individual be over-leveled. I think people are lot more informed than they were in the early days of WoW or other games. And there is like zero specialization or role-playing in terms of encounter design (though of course some encounters favor certain classes). Because everyone's role is to 1. Not die and 2. Shoot things, class composition is a bit irrelevant, again on easier difficulties. This week's weekly was harder than both the Nightfall and the Normal mode raid, it's dumb.

There's a bit more to it than just "shoot things": plates outside the gate, killing oracles and using the relic, the gorgon maze, learning the portals in gatekeeper/atheon and how the teleporting works, etc.. You can read this stuff sure, but many players won't and MM will group 6 of these types of players together a lot.

I think you might be overestimating the average gamer, maybe I'm underestimating them though.

I like the match fire teams idea a lot.
 
Thanks guys. Not played any PVP for a few days but will definitely give it the old college try. Full auto mode + range do sound pretty fine.

I fire the Invective with just a trigger pull for each round, too much recoil for full auto and unreliable. ADS and tighten up that spread, yo. Works wonders.

Have fun with it!
 
Having done it two and a half times now, destinyLFG or using this thread is amazing.

Matchmade raid would simply put be the worst, not to mention the level 26 players that would try join, honestly 27 is the best level to start raiding on normal....



Same old story about any popular game, I admit it has deep flaws, but at the same time, I cannot stop talking and playing it....

Yep, this game is the most flawed game I love to play, by a longshot. I mean it's very, very flawed. But I really, really love playing it.

And I never was any kind of an MMO or loot game guy. Played a bit of GW2 and STO. Liked STO a lot but got bored with the grind to get better weapons for my Odyssey class tactical cruiser. If I didn't like the space combat so much I would've quit sooner. Diablo 3, completed it once and got bored with it. For some reason it just doesn't click with me.

But this, I've been stuck at level 28 for 2 weeks now and RNG just gives me shit. Yet I'm addicted to playing it. Hopefully today I get 5 ass shards and get to 29.

I completely understand the concerns with matchmaking for the raid. I participated in it twice but only got to play the Gatekeeper and Atheon parts (I was invited late in both cases to replace someone who had left), so I understand the level of coordination and commitment needed.

Yet I feel if there's no matchmaking I have very little chance of participating in raids as generally I'm not online at the same time as most gaffers (the only people I've raided with), so it's kinda difficult for me to get into raids.
 

rdrr gnr

Member
Thanks guys. Not played any PVP for a few days but will definitely give it the old college try. Full auto mode + range do sound pretty fine.
For sake of debate, I don't buy the Invective hype. The shotgun is my secondary always and the Invective, for me, just isn't good enough as a standalone shotgun nor as a gun that uses up your exotic slot. Getting a clean one-shot is harder than with other guns and the range (pre-patch, at least) was shorter than my rare Suros with the tighter spread perk. Chances are that if you need that second shot, you might as well melee.
 
I meant to play yesterday, I even followed my routine of waking up in the morning, turning on my ps4 with the Vita, getting my bounties for the night, then leave for school... Midterms and assignments however all stacked up kept me awake until midnight. Did not have a chance to play. I am still hoping to run the weekly strike to get my coins, I already did the Nightfall thankfully. Waiting for Xur to come tmrw and bring something good :3
 

SkylineRKR

Member
You need to get to grips with Invective. It replaced my Fusion rifle as a backup killer. Whenever someone closes in and my Primary is out, I switch to Invective and blast them. When they have full shield I aim at their feet and auto fire. Its ROF is so that you can erase a misfire soon enough.

And, Invective looks just beautiful. Its perhaps the best looking shotty I know in a game.
 
Guess what happened afterwards

4l8K6k5.jpg
 
Voidfang Vestments are no better.

You take that back! Voidfang looks great! :p

Oh I dunno, VF looks quite nice to me.

I'll take anything over Praxis right now.

I've been waiting to get Praxic Fire, but after getting Voidfang and loving the way it looks on my girl with Chatterwhite or Million Million I'm kinda over it. The only thing I don't like about it is it has Strength.

anyone else really dislike the moon missions? other than dark beyond and sword of crota the other hellmouth stuff bores me to tears.

Sword of Crota is the only one I actually like. In general the Moon is the location I like least in the game. All those gothic looking tunnels annoy me. The only gothic looking anything I like are girls. :p
 
Sword of Crota is the only one I actually like. In general the Moon is the location I like least in the game. All those gothic looking tunnels annoy me. The only gothic looking anything I like are girls. :p

yea the reason i like the first mission the most is because it is almost entirely on the surface. i like the surface because of public events and the skybox. you also get pikes. crota's fun because of the sword, but the raid relic is so much cooler.

Everyone presses dpad right?

i got pushed off :(
 

Deku Tree

Member
What's the best place to farm spin metal? I am finding that the rocketyard post hot fix is a ver bad spin metal farming location... Could just be my bad luck but I am not getting many drops. Very slow going....
 
yea the reason i like the first mission the most is because it is almost entirely on the surface. i like the surface because of public events and the skybox. you also get pikes. crota's fun because of the sword, but the raid relic is so much cooler.

I absolutely love the raid relic. Using a shield as a weapon? Aw yiss.

HOLY CRAP HOLY CRAP I JUST GOT HAWKMOON FROM A LEGENDARY ENGRAM. PRAISE BE TO XUR!
 

TheContact

Member
The nightfall is such a joke this week. Did it with my friend then my lvl 25 friend joined in and we still did it without even dying once. Last 2 weeks were so much harder
 
I got the Scream mask (hunter helm) from clumsy Atheon last night. Sucks I'm going to have to let go of my 4th golden gun shot from the hunter helmet i'm using. I guess I'll just upgrade it in the background until I get some other raid gear that will make wearing the scream mask worth it.

I really have so much stuff to upgrade now its overwhelming. I got the Patience and Time from nightfall two nights ago and I was just like, "Eh." But i guess... gotta collect em all.
 

Futaba

Member
PSA, though it seems not really all that interesting, Relic holder can essentially glide forever by spamming melee in the air lol - more importantly, it's possible to abuse this and jump from the "warp" zones back in to the main atheon arena.
 

KeRaSh

Member
Sorry to whoever invited me to the raid. I was sitting at work during my lunchbreak doing bounties on my Vita.
I had to fight against a bad connection. Atheon looked like something straight out of Minecraft.
 
PSA, though it seems not really all that interesting, Relic holder can essentially glide forever by spamming melee in the air lol - more importantly, it's possible to abuse this and jump from the "warp" zones back in to the main atheon arena.

But won't they be a sitting (hovering?) duck for enemies in that case?

Has someone actually managed to get back to Atheon like that?
 
Playing Crucible for the first time since the patch. I really don't notice any difference at all.

Auto rifles and shotguns are just as bad now as they were last week.
 

Zakalwe

Banned
Playing Crucible for the first time since the patch. I really don't notice any difference at all.

Auto rifles and shotguns are just as bad now as they were last week.

I've actually noticed that escaping round a corner while someone has auto rifle fire on you from mid-long range lets you live much more often than it used to.

That's about it.
 

Daemul

Member
I have to admit, I'm slightly proud that I managed to reach level 30 and amass a large collection of legendary and exotic weapons and gear without the need to rely on alts, when there's people who have three alts and still haven't gotten shit from the Raid lol.

I gave up on the idea of having alts when I tried making one and only got up to level 8 with it before getting bored out of my mind and deleting it. How people managed to find the energy and will to create two alts and take them to level 20 is beyond me. The broken loot system in this game probably forced their hand, but RNG is still fucking many of them anyway.
 
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