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Destiny |OT9| Suros Business

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Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Just read something really cool about this ghost fragment that covers some lore of Jaren Ward, the original owner of The Last Word and I thought I'd share it with you guys:

There's also speculation that Jaren eventually becomes Dredgen Yor, a shell of his former self, turned to darkness (from the Thorn grimoire):
So wait a minute

The Last Word's flavor text: "Yours…not mine." - Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur to Dredgen Yor

That would be like Shin Malphur repeating the line the original owner once used back to him before killing him and claiming his gun? that's kind of badass
 
I just meant if his table gets bigger with the expansion, and there is more gear you might want. If you have alts, as well.

Vague chance coins could be used for something else in the future, too.

But how will that work> Not everyone will have the expansion so Xur cannot have expansion items right?

the concept that having every exotic (well, until the DLC hits) is even remotely within my reach is realllly addictive to me. gotta catch 'em all

dunno if this will make sense to anyone at all but Exotics in Destiny actually kind of remind me more of Keystone abilities in Path of Exile than items themselves


Yes that appeals to me as well. I love the weapons and want to have all of them but I completed Nightfall and 3 hard raid runs (got crap loot from all) on Tuesday so what do I do the rest of the week?

Edit** I don't enjoy the PVP and I've seen everything in the game at least 30 times at this point. The game does not have enough content. Period. Random enemy spawns would go a long way. Everything is exactly the same every freaking time you do anything.
 
Bungie has a very different approach to loot than a lot of other loot games. 2 months in I hope this is becoming obvious.

For example, Diablo 3 has tons and tons of legendaries, but most are just glorified rares. There are only a few that are worth creating a build around. I sharded almost every legendary I got. Destiny has focused on making sure every exotic is unique and through (promised) buffs/balances are trying to make each one viable. No other loot game does this.

Most loot games, you're looking for that one piece of gear. Thunderfury for your Monk. Wand of Woh for your Wizard. Destiny isn't about optimal, it's about choices. That's why you're limited to one exotic. They're center-pieces that you build around. I have 4 titan exotics. Alpha Lupi is great for Nightfalls, Armamentarium for wreckin' shit, Inner Fire for Striker fun, Saint-14 for blinding fools. I want Skull Fort and No Back Up Plans. Each one lets you find another playstyle.

Bungie's openly stated they want us to collect them all. And here's the other advantage to having a smaller table. It let's you learn to synergize with and counter other players. Most loot games don't have PvP. There are 6 armors for each class I think. I can recognize each and know what they're doing. A smaller loot table maintains predicatibility that PvP requires.

Diablo 3 and most loot games are about BiS, Best in Slot. Destiny is about variety.

-----

Finally, as an aside, I fully approve of the "one exotic at a time" design choice. It keeps people who play 200 hours a week on the same playing field as those who only play 10. After all, they each can only have one exotic equipped. The hardcore player doesn't get a power advantage like most games, they get a choice advantage. They can run any of 12 different styles, but they're all equal to the guy who only has one exotic. It was a brilliant decision.


Ok, but these design choices are built on the pretence that the underlying gameplay loop is compelling enough and the content (worlds, enemies, objectives, etc) are varied enough to ensure the player is having fun between the much longer gaps between the gratification of high-quality loot drops.

It isn't right now.

The feel of the movement and the shooting is fantastic. First class. Exactly what you would expect from the guys behind Halo. BUT:

The enemy AI is pretty much non-existent until you hit lvl 24 missions, and even then, only 2 of the 4 races demonstrate any kind of intelligence as far as flanking, or working together, or retreating and re-engaging. The Hive and the Vex are basically just reskinned versions of The Flood.

Coordination does become critical on higher difficulty settings, but even then, it's purely about calling out targets, reviving each other and focus firing. The classes are basically irrelevant by the higher levels outside of specials, and none of the missions in the game actually require players to coordinate their different talents. You can run any combination of the 3 classes without issue.

The bosses are boring chores to fight against. They're generally immobile, have one attack apiece, and rely purely on being a bullet-sponge and surrounded by ads to pose any challenge.

The scenarios in the missions are simplistic and repetitive. The Raid adds some extra elements, which is nice, but in the case of those boss battles, glitches and shoddy execution kneecap otherwise conceptually interesting puzzle-boss fights.

You can go on and on with this. The point is, if you're going to design a loot shooter with a more limited loot table in mind - even for great, intelligent reasons such as the ones you mentioned - you damn sure better make sure the 'shooter' part is satisfying enough to provide gratification outside of the loot drops. Right now, Destiny doesn't really. The competition with friends to try and get the best gear, or the simple 'collect them all' impulse is really the only thing pushing a lot of people forward right now.
 

Kalamari

Member
I am dumbfounded by the absence of the grimoire content from the game. The majority of players will never see all the the fantastic content that the grimoire cards contain. Bungie needs to get this content into the game somehow.
 
So wait a minute

The Last Word's flavor text: "Yours…not mine." - Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur to Dredgen Yor

That would be like Shin Malphur repeating the line the original owner once used back to him before killing him and claiming his gun? that's kind of badass

fuuuuuck
 

LiK

Member
I am dumbfounded by the absence of the grimoire content from the game. The majority of players will never see all the the fantastic content that the grimoire cards contain. Bungie needs to get this content into the game somehow.

I guess the easiest way is if people transcribed the Grimoires to those Destiny wikis.
 

Impala26

Member
No, you're totally spot on. Destiny appeals to the side of me that got addicted to WoW. Loot, dailies, weeklies, progression, etc. Perfectly appeals to my addictive nature.

I started console gaming with Halo 1 when I was 12, and dumped an insane amount of time into Halo 2/3/Reach. So MCC will pull me away to get to relive some nostalgia, play through the campaigns, play around in multiplayer...but I will still play Destiny. Different "itches" as you call them.

XBone Destiny population might dip slightly for a few weeks for MCC. Probably not much though, and not for long, and especially not once Dark Below hits.

Longer term, you are right. There's not a lot in the pipe to capture regular playtime from people.

And to everyone: My XBL Gamertag is justkelson

Plan on playing both MCC and Destiny for XB1, so I'm in the same boat.

I'll try to remember to add you, in case I forget...

My GT is the same as my name: Impala26
 
Yup.

Bungie has a very different approach to loot than a lot of other loot games. 2 months in I hope this is becoming obvious.

For example, Diablo 3 has tons and tons of legendaries, but most are just glorified rares. There are only a few that are worth creating a build around. I sharded almost every legendary I got. Destiny has focused on making sure every exotic is unique and through (promised) buffs/balances are trying to make each one viable. No other loot game does this.

Most loot games, you're looking for that one piece of gear. Thunderfury for your Monk. Wand of Woh for your Wizard. Destiny isn't about optimal, it's about choices. That's why you're limited to one exotic. They're center-pieces that you build around. I have 4 titan exotics. Alpha Lupi is great for Nightfalls, Armamentarium for wreckin' shit, Inner Fire for Striker fun, Saint-14 for blinding fools. I want Skull Fort and No Back Up Plans. Each one lets you find another playstyle.

Bungie's openly stated they want us to collect them all. And here's the other advantage to having a smaller table. It let's you learn to synergize with and counter other players. Most loot games don't have PvP. There are 6 armors for each class I think. I can recognize each and know what they're doing. A smaller loot table maintains predicatibility that PvP requires.

Diablo 3 and most loot games are about BiS, Best in Slot. Destiny is about variety.

-----

Finally, as an aside, I fully approve of the "one exotic at a time" design choice. It keeps people who play 200 hours a week on the same playing field as those who only play 10. After all, they each can only have one exotic equipped. The hardcore player doesn't get a power advantage like most games, they get a choice advantage. They can run any of 12 different styles, but they're all equal to the guy who only has one exotic. It was a brilliant decision.
 
I guess the easiest way is if people transcribed the Grimoires to those Destiny wikis.

You'd think as you unlocked Grimoire cards, you could go to the Speaker, who is surrounded by fucking books and tomes, and he would recite the content to you (or you could read it online*). Maybe have some art/murals or something running as he speaks.

I mean, they paid for the damn voice actor, you'd think they could give him more than a few greetings and 2 scenes to book-end the game.
 

LiK

Member
You'd think as you unlocked Grimoire cards, you could go to the Speaker, who is surrounded by fucking books and tomes, and he would recite the content to you (or you could read it only). Maybe have some art/murals or something running as he speaks.

I mean, they paid for the damn voice actor, you'd think they could give him more than a few greetings and 2 scenes to book-end the game.

Haha, that is actually a pretty great idea. All that VO money wasted.
 

Tovarisc

Member
"Patience and Time" or how I like to call it "Camp and Tent", such PvP camper cunts wet dream >.<" Turns maps like First Light and Bastion into pure torture.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
many wiki pages later

holy shit what! so let's run with the Jaren Ward became Dredgen Yor thing. Yor at the point he was killed was wielding Thorn,
Augmented through dark practices, Thorn was once a hero's weapon. Its jagged frame hints at a sinister truth: a powerful connection to the unutterable sorceries of the Hive. The legend of Thorn is bound to the rise and fall of Dredgen Yor, a Guardian whose name is remembered with disgust and shame. The weapon was thought destroyed...but rumors of its existence still haunt the wilds.

Thorn is formed (the "story" of its exotic bounty, which is titled "A Light in the Dark") by getting an "accursed" Hand cannon, infusing it with Light (so that it can be wielded by guardians) and augmented by Hive magic (presumably, Xyor is where the "Mark of the Devourer" comes from).

and "During a Bungie podcast, The Last Word was labeled as the "yang" to its (Thorn's) "yin" in the Destiny universe"

damn... i had no idea they were supposed to be related. The Last Word representing Light (originally held by Jaren Ward) and Thorn representing Darkness (ultimately wielded by Ward who had become Dredgen Yor, and then killed by Malphur with or just before claiming The Last Word-)... bringing the duality full circle, with a bit of Light in the Dark and Dark in the Light. Before killing him Malphur repeated the now-famous words Yor himself once used that gave the gun its name.

in-game wielded by players, the guns are different in like every way, especially how they kill- TLW is direct and "just," Thorn is poisonous, more sinister. that's so fucking cool. how can all of this not be in the game. how. what. i can't.
 

Ambitious

Member
Need one more for the heroic raid. We're at the Gatekeeper. We've got two level 28's, so a level 30 would be appreciated. PSN: ps_flocki
 
Flawless run #2 is done, so happy for Matt and Astro who deserved it so much!

Let's get that percentage up to 0.2%. All aboard the Flawless Train, chuga-chuga-choo-choooooo!
 

Bizazedo

Member
So wait a minute

The Last Word's flavor text: "Yours…not mine." - Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur to Dredgen Yor

That would be like Shin Malphur repeating the line the original owner once used back to him before killing him and claiming his gun? that's kind of badass
How it's phrased, wouldn't it be Shin Malphur that is the Renegade?

"Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur" spoke to "Dredgen Yor"

It doesn't sound like Renegade Hunter is an occupation? Or is there another grimoire.
 

Axoman

Member
Not a killer by any means, but Destiny will be losing some of my attention (aside from raids/weeklies) to Halo MCC next week. But, that's only on Xbox. And from the look of it, I am the only GAFer who plays Destiny on the XBONE.

Granted, I own a PS4 and Destiny for it. But all my playtime has been on the Xbox since that's where my RL friends are.

I'm on XB1 and pretty much play daily along with a group of 2-3 other friends.

We could always use someone to help with raids.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
wooo congrats on the Flawless run!
How it's phrased, wouldn't it be Shin Malphur that is the Renegade?

"Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur" spoke to "Dredgen Yor"

It doesn't sound like Renegade Hunter is an occupation? Or is there another grimoire.
Yeah I assume Malphur is the renegade? I might be missing something in your question.

edit: Oh I see, like "Renegade Hunter" would actually make more sense, someone who hunts renegades...

We don't really seem to know anything about Shin Malphur, but Yor was for sure all evillified.
 

Dunlop

Member
Buys Truth
Finds Truth in PvP literally the next match.
Goddamit.
Now I finally know that feeling you all hate so much. Just Dismantle it then?

Took a chance with the epic engram, hoping to get a helm for my titan alt

I have one epic helm total and out of all the loot possibilities I got the same f-ing helm again

Thankfully the second chance gave me a titan helm lol
 

exYle

Member
Just read something really cool about this ghost fragment that covers some lore of Jaren Ward, the original owner of The Last Word and I thought I'd share it with you guys:

There's also speculation that Jaren eventually becomes Dredgen Yor, a shell of his former self, turned to darkness (from the Thorn grimoire):

There's also evidence that suggests otherwise. Thorn was once called Rose (http://destiny-grimoire.info/#Card-302160), whereas The Last Word has always been a gun held by Jaren Ward (http://destiny-grimoire.info/#Card-302120 - this card is also where Shin Malphur encounters TLW for the first time as a child) .

Shin Malphur speaks of two men - one a light, one the darkest shadow [he] would ever know (http://destiny-grimoire.info/#Card-302110).

Then, there is one last card that suggests Thorn was used to kill Jaren Ward by Dredgen Yor, because at least three men were killed and both Ward and Yor are listed in the subjects (http://destiny-grimoire.info/#Card-302170).

Finally, we know that Shin Malphur kills Dredgen Yor at Dwindler's Ridge with The Last Word (http://destiny.wikia.com/wiki/The_Last_Word), but in my opinion, the whole thing seems to be skewed towards the idea that Shin Malphur is avenging his mentor, Jaren Ward, with the gun that he probably took from Ward's corpse.

How it's phrased, wouldn't it be Shin Malphur that is the Renegade?

"Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur" spoke to "Dredgen Yor"

It doesn't sound like Renegade Hunter is an occupation? Or is there another grimoire.

I can't remember where I first heard the theory, but someone speculated that Renegade Hunter suggested that Shin Malphur was not a Guardian imbued with Light - just a random person who donned Hunter gear and performed their role.
 

Greenymac

Member
So wait a minute

The Last Word's flavor text: "Yours…not mine." - Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur to Dredgen Yor

That would be like Shin Malphur repeating the line the original owner once used back to him before killing him and claiming his gun? that's kind of badass

Just making me want the damn gun even more.
 

SharkJAW

Member
So wait a minute

The Last Word's flavor text: "Yours…not mine." - Renegade Hunter Shin Malphur to Dredgen Yor

That would be like Shin Malphur repeating the line the original owner once used back to him before killing him and claiming his gun? that's kind of badass
Yup. Shin looked up to Ward before he became Yor, I'm presuming, mimicking words when he shoots down the man he used to look up to (all while using his idol's gun).
 

CornDogg

Member
Reading all this lore stuff greatly increases my sadness and disappointment of it not being in-game whatsoever.

I want to see these events play out in-game!!
 

zewone

Member
Flawless.

Achieved.

Flawless run #2 is done, so happy for Matt and Astro who deserved it so much!

Let's get that percentage up to 0.2%. All aboard the Flawless Train, chuga-chuga-choo-choooooo!

2 flawless runs under my belt now morays to everyone who just got it again

Astro and Matt deserved it
Congrats! Most deserved.

We were so close last night. Hopeful you guys can help me with clear soon.
 
Congrats! Most deserved.

We were so close last night. Hopeful you guys can help me with clear soon.

Yep, it was as close as could be last night, we got it on the first run today. I will be out of town until Sunday afternoon but will definitely help you and anyone else who wants to do it if I'm around.

The glitches are a non-issue now, anyone who has beaten normal raid could do flawless but I would recommend Lv28+ with some maxed raid weapons and ideally a maxed IB and/or GHorn.
 
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