DestinyGAF Clan -> Request thread

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Their account system is a bit convoluted since they use third party services for logins. You basically can't unlink an account that's only tied to 1 service cause then there would be no way to log into that account. You have to link 2 services to an account if you want to remove 1.

So you have to first link a dummy throwaway account (either Gmail, FB, XBL, or PSN) to the account you want to unlink and then unlink the PSN/XBL account from it. After that you should be able to link the PSN/XBL account with the other account.
Thank you, if they just used this type of wording it would have been very clear what was needed. It was all the talk of shell accounts and authentication methods that really made it much more convoluted than necessary, so I just gave up.
Once I am home from work will try this all out. Thanks again.
 
People are not understanding this, or are misunderstanding the entire situation. This PS4 group/clan can be gathered into the main DestinyGAF group. From there one out you could have multiple groups for platforms or timezones..... It's easy as hell but I think some people misunderstand everything and just think its about control or whatever.

I'd say do what everybody wants but for communication sake and just the easyness of it all, it's better if there is one group with multiple sub-groups/clans for platform and continent/timezones.

First off I agree. I'd rather have them joined together but I don't make that call. Second off, hard to think it's not about control when people are still coming here accusing jburton and shadow of a power trip (look a page behind and in this one)
 
Why doesn't someone create an 'official DestinyGAF' thread here then if people are so worried about it.
Because those running the original DestinyGAF are not online and I somehow doubt that having another thread up with DestinyGAF in the title is going to clear up much of the confusion.

I was planning on creating a DestinyGAF discussion thread where all of this confusion could be discussed in one central place with a clear-cut explanation in the OP, but a mod advised against it due to there just being too many unknowns in the Bungie.net clan-system at this moment.
 
First off I agree. I'd rather have them joined together but I don't make that call. Second off, hard to think it's not about control when people are still coming here accusing jburton and shadow of a power trip (look a page behind and in this one)

Especially with poster telling me I should be respectful because I am not here as long as some of those in HaloGAF and that I should kiss their feet and obey.
 
Length of time in the forum does not derive any extra authority to anyone, you can forget about that shit .... go ask a mod if in doubt.

Secondly I am not accusing PyschoRaven of accusing me of theft, he made a posts saying it had been stolen from him (I did not make this so he would not have directed anything towards me) he also made those claims against somebody else in the other group when all they had done was secure the name and where waiting to pass the reigns to him.

Those posts where an example of the mentality and the only reason I bring them up.

Look I get all that. I'm just saying, when you found out that indeed there was going to be a larger DestinyGAF group, one that would have encompassed what this group becomes, why not agree to close it down then? You don't want unnecessary fragmentation of a united group no? I don't know who insulted you or why, and I'm certainly not doing that. My point regarding time was that I used to lurk long before I joined. The idea of DestinyGAF has long been discussed, especially in HaloGAF.

It's not elitism but the fact that a group that has been around for years for a Bungie shooter, would want to create a group for the next. Even someone like Ghaleon who used to make the HaloGAF threads knew about the potential of DestinyGAF I think, and now he's a mod.

I'm just saying, if there was another group and you find out, okay, they've been thinking of making it for months/years before I did, it's just common courtesy to let them do it. And while the length of time here doesn't have any official bearing, long time members of groups or communities usually are afforded some discretion (ie. Someone who usually makes the tennis threads or UFC/MMA threads would be expected to make the next). Sorry if I'm wrong in this thinking.

The fact that there's even some sort of etiquette surrounding a system made to give people choice just seems weird and a bit creepy. If HaloGAF was this exclusive then maybe I did best to stay away.

HaloGAF isn't exclusive, it's inclusive. But like any community, especially one of the oldest ones on NeoGAF (been here since 2004 I think, and I believe Luke who now works at Bungie made one of the first Halo OT threads), it does require new users to find out who does what, how it's regulated. If you're a Halo fan, come shoot the shit with HaloGAF. I lurked for years before I finally joined. I only joined GAF for HaloGAF and thought for the past year and half, the same community could be replicated for Destiny.
 
Look I get all that. I'm just saying, when you found out that indeed there was going to be a larger DestinyGAF group, one that would have encompassed what this group becomes, why not agree to close it down then? You don't want unnecessary fragmentation of a united group no? I don't know who insulted you or why, and I'm certainly not doing that. My point regarding time was that I used to lurk long before I joined. The idea of DestinyGAF has long been discussed, especially in HaloGAF.

It's not elitism but the fact that a group that has been around for years for a Bungie shooter, would want to create a group for the next. Even someone like Ghaleon who used to make the HaloGAF threads knew about the potential of DestinyGAF I think, and now he's a mod.

I'm just saying, if there was another group and you find out, okay, they've been thinking of making it for months/years before I did, it's just common courtesy to let them do it. And while the length of time here doesn't have any official bearing, long time members of groups or communities usually are afforded some discretion (ie. Someone who usually makes the tennis threads or UFC/MMA threads would be expected to make the next). Sorry if I'm wrong in this thinking.



HaloGAF isn't exclusive, it's inclusive. But like any community, especially one of the oldest ones on NeoGAF (been here since 2004 I think, and I believe Luke who now works at Bungie made one of the first Halo OT threads), it does require new users to find out who does what, how it's regulated. If you're a Halo fan, come shoot the shit with HaloGAF. I lurked for years before I finally joined. I only joined GAF for HaloGAF and thought for the past year and half, the same community could be replicated for Destiny.


Jburton isn't the creator. People keep assuming he is and that this is the SS brigade or something. Talk with the creator and convince him. It's up to him. He'll most likely say it's up to what people prefer.
 
Especially with poster telling me I should be respectful because I am not here as long as some of those in HaloGAF and that I should kiss their feet and obey.

I didn't tell you to do shit. I just came here to post my own thoughts on it, and you replied to me first and spoke in a very abrasive tone ("keep telling yourself that") etc. So I don't know wtf your problem is. You're creating unnecessary drama yourself. Is that what I really said or do you want to put words in my mouth too?

Jburton isn't the creator. People keep assuming he is and that this is the SS brigade or something. Talk with the creator and convince him. It's up to him. He'll most likely say it's up to what people prefer.

I agree, but then why is responding to everyone in an accusatory manner, bringing up other people, saying they were accusing him of theft etc. Just look at some of his responses the last 15 pages as I'm getting caught up on the thread. Anger at tons of posters, very brash and abrasive manner.
 
Jburton isn't the creator. People keep assuming he is and that this is the SS brigade or something. Talk with the creator and convince him. It's up to him. He'll most likely say it's up to what people prefer.

I agree. And since most posters itt just give out their PSN ID and Bungie ID and then bail, I find it hard to look for such a course of action. There had already been a poll created. How would we go about asking everyone for what to do?

The creators of both groups should just have a chat and decide for themselves. Nobody will be upset if both groups get merged, and noone will be off for the worse. But this should probably be my last post. I do not wish to offend anyone and I am not accusing anyone either. I just feel it's not really a great way the way it's set up right now. It'd be awesome as well to have all GAF members who play Destiny to be in one big ass group, sub-divided into platform clans.
 
Look I get all that. I'm just saying, when you found out that indeed there was going to be a larger DestinyGAF group, one that would have encompassed what this group becomes, why not agree to close it down then? You don't want unnecessary fragmentation of a united group no? I don't know who insulted you or why, and I'm certainly not doing that. My point regarding time was that I used to lurk long before I joined. The idea of DestinyGAF has long been discussed, especially in HaloGAF.

It's not elitism but the fact that a group that has been around for years for a Bungie shooter, would want to create a group for the next. Even someone like Ghaleon who used to make the HaloGAF threads knew about the potential of DestinyGAF I think, and now he's a mod.

I'm just saying, if there was another group and you find out, okay, they've been thinking of making it for months/years before I did, it's just common courtesy to let them do it. And while the length of time here doesn't have any official bearing, long time members of groups or communities usually are afforded some discretion (ie. Someone who usually makes the tennis threads or UFC/MMA threads would be expected to make the next). Sorry if I'm wrong in this thinking.



HaloGAF isn't exclusive, it's inclusive. But like any community, especially one of the oldest ones on NeoGAF (been here since 2004 I think, and I believe Luke who now works at Bungie made one of the first Halo OT threads), it does require new users to find out who does what, how it's regulated. If you're a Halo fan, come shoot the shit with HaloGAF. I lurked for years before I finally joined. I only joined GAF for HaloGAF and thought for the past year and half, the same community could be replicated for Destiny.


I really don't care who made what and who they used to be, your a Halo fan and joined because of HaloGAF, naturally you think they are great and will sing their praises ...... fair play that's up to you.

Secondly, I didn't make fuck all, I joined both groups and felt a platform specific option was the best choice, that was my opinion and no amount of insults or badgering etc is or was going to change that.


The insults and shitting up this thread (something that was not done in the other) only helped but make apparent what many of those in that group are all about, don't lecture me about the courtesy and politeness towards these people, they displayed very little especially when I personally offers no insults of my own to deserve them. People have apologised and I accept that but I have no interest in being part of a group that contains those people and this experience has shown to me that allowing clicks to continually be in charge of these things creates a sense of entitlement and ownership that cause others to simply demand and berate those who dare try and contribute in a manner they don't see fit.
 
Are you serious madness? It somebody accused you of having a power trip and calling you out on your intelligence and telling you to close down wouldn't you get defensive? It's human nature man. I got pissed yesterday as well. No need to throw mountain dew and doritos everywhere. For every 1 guy trying to keep it civil 2 come in to tell us we're being ass holes when we hold no power. We're defending the idea of a ps4 exclusive group that's it, which evidence dictates has been done plenty of times before.

I just want to play destiny man.

I agree. And since most posters itt just give out their PSN ID and Bungie ID and then bail, I find it hard to look for such a course of action. There had already been a poll created. How would we go about asking everyone for what to do?

The creators of both groups should just have a chat and decide for themselves. Nobody will be upset if both groups get merged, and noone will be off for the worse. But this should probably be my last post. I do not wish to offend anyone and I am not accusing anyone either. I just feel it's not really a great way the way it's set up right now. It'd be awesome as well to have all GAF members who play Destiny to be in one big ass group, sub-divided into platform clans.

Do me a favor man anyway you could try and find a Bungie community manager to ask him if merging the groups is possible if both creators agree? If so that could be less steps taken for everybody else.
 
Are you serious madness? It somebody accused you of having a power trip and calling you out on your intelligence and telling you to close down wouldn't you get defensive? It's human nature man. I got pissed yesterday as well. No need to throw mountain dew and doritos everywhere. For every 1 guy trying to keep it civil 2 come in to tell us we're being ass holes when we hold no power. We're defending the idea of a ps4 exclusive group that's it, which evidence dictates has been done plenty of times before.

I just want to play destiny man.

Of course. Now please, go and read what I wrote the past two pages, and read the responses of JBurton, he's very inflammatory in the way he's writing responses and very insulting. Just read above. He doesn't know me, but because I said I joined GAF for the Halo community here, "I think theyre great and will naturally sing their praises". That's just insulting and invalidating my opinion.

If he has beef with other users, that's fine, no need to take it out on me or others who've done nothing to him, or even said anything. He replied to me first. If he's truly done with the "drama" why keep bringing it up, insulting others, keep creating the very drama page after page. Seriously just read the last 15 pages and you'll see.

Either way, you're free to make any group you want, but when you know a "DestinyGAF" exists, one that encompasses PS4 owners, why want to make your own? But it's your prerogative. I can't speak to what anyone else said. I just entered the thread last page when I made my post. I've only been on GAF less than 1.5 years and yet I was hearing about "DestinyGAF" or reading about it a lot longer than that. That was all I meant.
 
Of course. Now please, go and read what I wrote the past two pages, and read the responses of JBurton, he's very inflammatory in the way he's writing responses and very insulting. Just read above. He doesn't know me, but because I said I joined GAF for the Halo community here, "I think theyre great and will naturally sing their praises". That's just insulting and invalidating my opinion.

If he has beef with other users, that's fine, no need to take it out on me or others who've done nothing to him, or even said anything. He replied to me first. If he's truly done with the "drama" why keep bringing it up, insulting others, keep creating the very drama page after page. Seriously just read the last 15 pages and you'll see.

Either way, you're free to make any group you want, but when you know a "DestinyGAF" exists, one that encompasses PS4 owners, why want to make your own? But it's your prerogative. I can't speak to what anyone else said. I just entered the thread last page when I made my post. I've only been on GAF less than 1.5 years and yet I was hearing about "DestinyGAF" or reading about it a lot longer than that. That was all I meant.


I'm not sure who I have taken things out on, if they didn't deserve it then I certainly apologise.

In regards to my tone towards yourself, you did come into the thread telling people that there is only one DestinyGAF, people should have known better, should have got permission, don't step on people toes due to length of membership etc.

This seemed like more berating and talking down to people, and that was all that I got yesterday ...... I was an admin like others but I got brought into these things as if I was a creator. I did not go into other threads insulting people and telling them what to do and even after explaining my point of view I was told that some still did not get it, it was weird and stupid etc.

My tone was set by the accusations made by others, it did not just simply spring into existence.


I am done with the drama, but obviously have to respond if others are calling me out put apart from that DestinyGAF can be back with who you consider it to belong to and I will carry on my merry way.

Enjoy the game, as I will and that's all that matters as far as I am concerned from this point on.
 
Sounds good bro. Give your point to the original creator of this one. He's an easy going guy not at all what people are making him out to be.

I did send Urk a request if it's possible to merge them. If he gets back to me and it's possible the group creators should discuss it amongst themselves imo.
 
I did send Urk a request if it's possible to merge them. If he gets back to me and it's possible the group creators should discuss it amongst themselves imo.

Why merge the clans? It's easier if every console has it's own clan, and 1 thread that is DestinyGaf that links to them. Because there is no cross play, it doesn't make sense having 1 big clan with people from 4 different consoles.
 
Blimey. Still going.

If we're voting, I've changed my mind. Scrap this one. Let's just have the one DG.

That's my final answer.
 
People are not understanding this, or are misunderstanding the entire situation. This PS4 group/clan can be gathered into the main DestinyGAF group. From there one out you could have multiple groups for platforms or timezones..... It's easy as hell but I think some people misunderstand everything and just think its about control or whatever.

I'd say do what everybody wants but for communication sake and just the easyness of it all, it's better if there is one group with multiple sub-groups/clans for platform and continent/timezones.

Jburton I did not mean to offend anyone and especially you. I hope I have not aggrivated you in any way. This should all be a happy occasion but I just feel like this has all been a big ass misunderstanding lol. Even Admiral Woofington admitted that he'd rather see this group/clan fall into the main one as well yea?

Why merge the clans? It's easier if every console has it's own clan, and 1 thread that is DestinyGaf that links to them. Because there is no cross play, it doesn't make sense having 1 big clan with people from 4 different consoles.

Blimey. Still going.

If we're voting, I've changed my mind. Scrap this one. Let's just have the one DG.

That's my final answer.

No need to scrap anything. Just make it a sub group of DestinyGAF.

DestinyGAF
|__ DestinyGAF PS4
|__ DestinyGAF XBO
|__ DestinyGAF PS3
|__ DestinyGAF 360

It seems stupidly simple to me as someone who is standing at the sidelines of all this drama.
 
Not going to wad into this too much, but...
HaloGAF isn't exclusive, it's inclusive. But like any community, especially one of the oldest ones on NeoGAF (been here since 2004 I think, and I believe Luke who now works at Bungie made one of the first Halo OT threads), it does require new users to find out who does what, how it's regulated. If you're a Halo fan, come shoot the shit with HaloGAF. I lurked for years before I finally joined. I only joined GAF for HaloGAF and thought for the past year and half, the same community could be replicated for Destiny.
This is patently false. HaloGAF has a terrible history of being inclusive; that's one of the reasons it was closed down for months.
 
Why merge the clans? It's easier if every console has it's own clan, and 1 thread that is DestinyGaf that links to them. Because there is no cross play, it doesn't make sense having 1 big clan with people from 4 different consoles.

Yes it does, because you can actually create smaller groups within a clan.

So it's just one big clan, with multiple groups of clans divided into platforms.

That way under your name it doesnt say DestinyGAF PS4 or DestinyGAF Xbox 360 on the ingame screen. Because your clan tag is situated beneath your name in the game. I think people on the platform I'm playing with already know I'm playing on a PS4, so there is so much redundancy in creating a platform specific group. They can just be sub-groups in the main DestinyGAF clan. Therefore your name would say Canis Lupus - DestinyGAF.

Some people really have a hard time understanding this. I'm trying to be as friendly as possible lol!
 
I'm all for joining but clan tags won't be group names as far as I'm aware are they? If so there's gonna be drama on who gets to be part of destinygaf and who has to join destinygaf 2. Clan wise I mean.
 
No need to scrap anything. Just make it a sub group of DestinyGAF.

DestinyGAF
|__ DestinyGAF PS4
|__ DestinyGAF XBO
|__ DestinyGAF PS3
|__ DestinyGAF 360

It seems stupidly simple to me as someone who is standing at the sidelines of all this drama.

If the game is going to be as big as current popularity indicates, I think your list may need additional subcategories:

DestinyGAF
|__ DestinyGAF PS4
|__DestinyGaf PS4 NA
|__DestinyGaf PS4 EU
|__etc.
 
Lol at all the drama, if the PS4 creator says it stays and teh mebers too then nobody can do shit about it, halo Gaf or not.

Jeez.
 
Not going to wad into this too much, but...

This is patently false. HaloGAF has a terrible history of being inclusive; that's one of the reasons it was closed down for months.

Haha, cmon Dax, why in this thread and not the other? Either way, you'd know more than me, you've been a member of HaloGAF for years longer. Personal squabbles aside, nothing is preventing anyone from coming into the thread, and talking about Halo. Of course as junior or newer members you take a lot of shit and sure there is a lot of infighting as well. But it's just one of the more passionate communities. I think we can both agree the downfall of the community a while back was because no one wanted to or was playing the games, things went off-topic, just randomness and chaos and insults.
 
Haha, cmon Dax, why in this thread and not the other? Either way, you'd know more than me, you've been a member of HaloGAF for years longer. Personal squabbles aside, nothing is preventing anyone from coming into the thread, and talking about Halo. Of course as junior or newer members you take a lot of shit and sure there is a lot of infighting as well. But it's just one of the more passionate communities. I think we can both agree the downfall of the community a while back was because no one wanted to or was playing the games, things went off-topic, just randomness and chaos and insults.

Well that and the bickering between some folks in the Halogaf thread did not help things. I'm surprised the Halo 4 OT didn't get shut down due to the same bickering a few times.
 
No need to scrap anything. Just make it a sub group of DestinyGAF.

DestinyGAF
|__ DestinyGAF PS4
|__ DestinyGAF XBO
|__ DestinyGAF PS3
|__ DestinyGAF 360

It seems stupidly simple to me as someone who is standing at the sidelines of all this drama.

I agree. Sorry,I was a bit loose with my words because I can't take it all that seriously. It's bonkers. Let's just have the one. Simple!
 
Like I've said convince shadow it's the proper course of action. If he agrees then problem solved. As long as nobody demands it gets shut down nobody will get defensive. Anger and insults rarely work on the Internet.

If this gets shut down I at least ask I am told before it does so I can get in a jesus position and die gracefully.
 
Haha, cmon Dax, why in this thread and not the other? Either way, you'd know more than me, you've been a member of HaloGAF for years longer. Personal squabbles aside, nothing is preventing anyone from coming into the thread, and talking about Halo. Of course as junior or newer members you take a lot of shit and sure there is a lot of infighting as well. But it's just one of the more passionate communities. I think we can both agree the downfall of the community a while back was because no one wanted to or was playing the games, things went off-topic, just randomness and chaos and insults.
What in this thread and not the other? I saw your comment here; I corrected to you. HaloGAF has a strong history of being hostile to not only outsiders but people who regularly post. Even when there was news to digest, it still failed to treat members with respect a lot of the time.
 
Haha, cmon Dax, why in this thread and not the other? Either way, you'd know more than me, you've been a member of HaloGAF for years longer. Personal squabbles aside, nothing is preventing anyone from coming into the thread, and talking about Halo. Of course as junior or newer members you take a lot of shit and sure there is a lot of infighting as well. But it's just one of the more passionate communities. I think we can both agree the downfall of the community a while back was because no one wanted to or was playing the games, things went off-topic, just randomness and chaos and insults.

What in this thread and not the other? I saw your comment here; I corrected to you. HaloGAF has a strong history of being hostile to not only outsiders but people who regularly post. Even when there was news to digest, it still failed to treat members with respect a lot of the time.

I don't have first hand experiences with HaloGaf, but if many of the members are part of and even formed DestinyGaf, I hope the behavior bolded above is not transferred to this community.
 
What in this thread and not the other? I saw your comment here; I corrected to you. HaloGAF has a strong history of being hostile to not only outsiders but people who regularly post. Even when there was news to digest, it still failed to treat members with respect a lot of the time.

The same type of hostility has been displayed in attacking anyone to do with this sub group, insults and harassment.

I now understand your aversion to having anything to do with groups and clans.
 
Everybody get together and play destiny together right now

Scumbag Bungie making us wait until July 17th.
imXGrQvPD92qC.gif
 
I don't have first hand experiences with HaloGaf, but if many of the members are part of and even formed DestinyGaf, I hope the behavior bolded above is not transferred to this community.
I wouldn't worry. DestinyGAF is a new thing and the people who have taken a larger role in it from HaloGAF are among the better members. Plus, Destiny is on Xbox and Playstaiton, so that means many more members than before.

I'm excited. =)
 
What in this thread and not the other? I saw your comment here; I corrected to you. HaloGAF has a strong history of being hostile to not only outsiders but people who regularly post. Even when there was news to digest, it still failed to treat members with respect a lot of the time.

Just thought you could mention it in the Halo thread. If you feel there is hostility why not share your views? I mean I've called out others when I've felt disrespected or put others on ignore. Again, I'll refer to your judgment, you've been posting there longer, making the threads longer. I've only been here a year and half.

I don't have first hand experiences with HaloGaf, but if many of the members are part of and even formed DestinyGaf, I hope the behavior bolded above is not transferred to this community.

You're going to get infighting in any group or community. Often times, it does get insulting and heated. Cliques form, groups form with people you play with. Sometimes it can start from a discussion of weapon preferences etc. Anything. Either way, moderation does occur and if it gets out of hand, community threads do get shut down and members do get banned.
 
Just thought you could mention it in the Halo thread. If you feel there is hostility why not share your views? I mean I've called out others when I've felt disrespected or put others on ignore. Again, I'll refer to your judgment, you've been posting there longer, making the threads longer. I've only been here a year and half.
I was talking about HaloGAF's history. I haven't said anything about where I think HaloGAF is today.
 
If the game is going to be as big as current popularity indicates, I think your list may need additional subcategories:

DestinyGAF
|__ DestinyGAF PS4
|__DestinyGaf PS4 NA
|__DestinyGaf PS4 EU
|__etc.

I was trying to keep it simple to explain the basic idea. How exactly it will be divided can still be worked out in detail :)

I agree. Sorry,I was a bit loose with my words because I can't take it all that seriously. It's bonkers. Let's just have the one. Simple!

No need to apologize. There were probably a few misunderstandings in this thread and I didn't want to create another one.

Exciting times lie ahead of us. In less than a month we'll be playing the beta and by the time the game comes out I'll be a married man!
 
I wouldn't worry. DestinyGAF is a new thing and the people who have taken a larger role in it from HaloGAF are among the better members. Plus, Destiny is on Xbox and Playstaiton, so that means many more members than before.

I'm excited. =)

I hope so, and I am too!


Just thought you could mention it in the Halo thread. If you feel there is hostility why not share your views? I mean I've called out others when I've felt disrespected or put others on ignore. Again, I'll refer to your judgment, you've been posting there longer, making the threads longer. I've only been here a year and half.



You're going to get infighting in any group or community. Often times, it does get insulting and heated. Cliques form, groups form with people you play with. Sometimes it can start from a discussion of weapon preferences etc. Anything. Either way, moderation does occur and if it gets out of hand, community threads do get shut down and members do get banned.

Yeah infighting and disagreements are standard; I guess after reading how the community was described it seemed much more severe. Not a big deal, and hopefully a non-issue. Other than the current multi-group/clan squabble I've not seen anything indicative of it in the DestinyGaf community
 
I was trying to keep it simple to explain the basic idea. How exactly it will be divided can still be worked out in detail :)



No need to apologize. There were probably a few misunderstandings in this thread and I didn't want to create another one.

Exciting times lie ahead of us. In less than a month we'll be playing the beta and by the time the game comes out I'll be a married man!

Woooo! Exciting!!! For the Beta, of course.

I kid, congratulations!!
 
No way buddy, the insults came thick and fast from people involved with the other group ....... have been completely soured against having anything to do with that group I'm sorry to say.

.

jeezus, what is wrong with people. I was hoping this wasn't going to be like x360 cod.

(just to be clear, not you jb).
 
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