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Deus Ex: Human Revolution |OT| I never asked for this... It gave me lemon-lime

Riposte

Riposte

Member
Zeliard said:
It's a hybrid of the two genres, not really a sub-genre of either. You can simply call Deus Ex an RPG and it would be just as correct.
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And you could call games which are nothing like Deus Ex(and then nothing like each other despite being just "RPGs" and not FPS/RPG) RPGs and it would be just as correct. This is why RPG isn't a proper genre and FPS is.
 
D

DaBuddaDa

Member
It is a first-person role-playing stealth action adventure shooter; A FPRPSAAS, if you will. It's pronounced by spitting out of the side of your mouth and jerking your hand in a back-and-forth motion.
 
M

MRORANGE

Member
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CrankyKong said:
A lot of people seem to be getting this for PC.
More than the average mutliplatform game
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if you check the back history of the franchise you would know why.
 
-tetsuo-

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
Deus Ex is an RPG. Having a lot of shooting centric mechanics on top of being a RPG doesn't change which category it falls in. You only need to look at how it plays/controls and the answer is obvious.
 
D

Derrick01

Banned
angular graphics said:
Let's put it this way:

There are clear disadvantages when aiming with a gamepad - but potentially in this game they aren't a big deal.
There are clear advantages when aiming with a mouse - but potentially in this game they aren't a big deal.

I'll go with the control style that gives me the potential advantages instead of the potential disadvantages ;)
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It doesn't really matter in an offline game.

Though by seeing me try to play BC2 online on PC you wouldn't think a mouse is more accurate.
 
C

CrankyKong

Member
MRORANGE said:
if you check the back history of the franchise you would know why.
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I know that it was a very popular PC game back in the day but I haven't seem this much enthusiasm for the PC version of a cross platform game in a while.
I thought most people defaulted to consoles.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
CrankyKong said:
I know that it was a very popular PC game back in the day but I haven't seem this much enthusiasm for the PC version of a cross platform game in a while.
I thought most people defaulted to consoles.
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Meh. Dragon Age 1 was quite popular on PC on forums.
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Lostconfused said:
And once again we prove genre definitions are dumb, or if not dumb then extremely inadequate.
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The only current gen things you can really compare this game to are probably Fallout 3 and BioShock.
 
Riposte

Riposte

Member
_tetsuo_ said:
Deus Ex is an RPG. Having a lot of shooting centric mechanics on top of being a RPG doesn't change which category it falls in. You only need to look at how it plays/controls and the answer is obvious.
Click to expand...

I know you are facetious, but if you make a more serious counterpoint I'll address it. Deus Ex is quite clearly built on the family tree of FPS games though it has a lot of non-genre specific mechanics like experience points/heavy stat manipulation/dialogue trees/etc that "dilute" it. Saying it plays/controls like a RPG is utterly meaningless really. Does it play like Planescape Torment or Final Fantasy 4? In reality it controls/plays like nether.
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Riposte said:
I know you are facetious, but if you make a more serious counterpoint I'll address it. Deus Ex is quite clearly built on the family tree of FPS games though it has a lot of non-genre specific mechanics like experience points/heavy stat manipulation/dialogue trees/etc that "dilute" it. Saying it plays/controls like a RPG is utterly meaningless really. Does it play like Planescape Torment or Final Fantasy 4? In reality it controls/plays like nether.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, how would you define Fallout 3? That game is in first person and has guns, but combat is still based on dice rolls. That's pretty much the only RPG element that Deus Ex and Human Revolution are missing.
 
F

flipswitch

Member
I have to stop pre-loading the game now since it's peak time where I live.Will continue tomorrow morning!.How long does it take to unlock btw?
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Riposte said:
And you could call games which are nothing like Deus Ex(and then nothing like each other despite being just "RPGs" and not FPS/RPG) RPGs and it would be just as correct. This is why RPG isn't a proper genre and FPS is.
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Quake is an FPS. What are the similarities between it and Deus Ex?

Both FPS and RPG are "proper genres." I've literally never seen anyone try to say otherwise. Seems odd.

RedSwirl said:
The only current gen things you can really compare this game to are probably Fallout 3 and BioShock.
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Fallout 3 and Bioshock are very different from each other. Deus Ex is more in line with System Shock 2 and Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, which are more RPG than anything else.
 
A

angular graphics

Banned
Derrick01 said:
It doesn't really matter in an offline game.
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Do aim assist, sticky aim, view friction and all kinds of different assists automatically disable when you play an offline game because "it doesn't really matter" how bad you are when playing offline? No they don't. ;)

Though by seeing me try to play BC2 online on PC you wouldn't think a mouse is more accurate.
Click to expand...

That's a problem of the player, not the control device - you can't fault it :)
 
-tetsuo-

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
Riposte said:
I know you are facetious, but if you make a more serious counterpoint I'll address it. Deus Ex is quite clearly built on the family tree of FPS games though it has a lot of non-genre specific mechanics like experience points/heavy stat manipulation/dialogue trees/etc that "dilute" it. Saying it plays/controls like a RPG is utterly meaningless really. Does it play like Planescape Torment or Final Fantasy 4? In reality it controls/plays like nether.
Click to expand...

So Fallout 3 is a shooter now? The Elder Scrolls? Arx Fatalis? Ultima Underworld? The Original Deus Ex?
 
E

eshwaaz

Member
Here are some of the highs and lows of the OXM US review (paraphrased to avoid copyright issues):

+ The gameplay is well tuned, flexible, and addictive

+ Sneaking around and dragging bodies is well-handled and fun

+ Sheer amount of detail and powerful atmosphere encourage exploration

+ Hacking minigames implemented in such a way that tedium is avoided

+ Game lets you play how you want and experience the consequences, good or bad



- Story is a muddled mess, plagued by some of the most awkward dialogue and stiff voicework seen in years

- Dull conversation system

- Graphics are good, but not exceptional
 
L

Lostconfused

Member
RedSwirl said:
The only current gen things you can really compare this game to are probably Fallout 3 and BioShock.
Click to expand...
Bioshock isn't as good of a comparison as you would hope because it ditched a lot of the old school design decisions. While Human Revolution retains at least some of them.
 
Definity

Definity

Member
Pre-load complete. The TF2 items were added to my inventory and I have no need for them since I don't really play. Will post them up in the trade thread.
 
-tetsuo-

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
eshwaaz said:
- Story is a muddled mess, plagued by some of the most awkward dialogue and stiff voicework seen in years
Click to expand...

It quality must really, really, really, really, really take a dive after Detroit.
 
E

eshwaaz

Member
DaBuddaDa said:
Is this really how they worded it? Good graphics are a negative because they're not "exceptional?"
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That's the problem with paraphrasing, and it probably wasn't even worth mentioning in the "negatives" on my part. The exact quote is, "the slick graphics won't knock your socks all the way off", followed by the praise for the detail and atmosphere.
 
C

cackhyena

Member
_tetsuo_ said:
It quality must really, really, really, really, really take a dive after Detroit.
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There was nothing in Detroit that stood out as exceptional. Not in that area. This comes as no surprise.
 
R

reptilescorpio

Member
Stunning OT, so damn psyched to play this next week after enjoying the couple of hours I played of the preview build. Thankfully stopped soon enough not to spoil the experience for me.
 
Riposte

Riposte

Member
Zeliard said:
Quake is an FPS. What are the similarities between it and Deus Ex?

Both FPS and RPG are "proper genres." I've literally never seen anyone try to say otherwise. Seems odd.
Click to expand...

You will find similarities by looking at how the player inhabits the game and the main ways he interacts with it. Basically if you look at the essential mechanics(think "controls" rather than "leveling system"), they are similar. Quake and Deus Ex are very different games(especially when looking at the degree of movement in Quake and weapons) if you look at them side by side, but if you contrast this to all of videogame-dom(other genres) they fit together fine.

It is rare, because it is rare to go against the canon. The backs of game boxes from the 80-90s dominate genre discussion. In an "open and shut" manner, unless someone wants to insult a PC franchise going console centric. (That said, people who want to believe RPG is a genre on the level of RTS or FPS find themselves with "What is a RPG?" thread everyday on some forum that is full of confusion and for good reason.)

RedSwirl said:
Out of curiosity, how would you define Fallout 3? That game is in first person and has guns, but combat is still based on dice rolls. That's pretty much the only RPG element that Deus Ex and Human Revolution are missing.
Click to expand...

Dice rolls doesn't change how a game is played, only the results. If you take out aiming altogether(which auto-aim does) then it becomes a different beast. Now Fallout 3 has the VATS, which is quite interesting because it actually does make the game more like a classic CRPG(in other words it makes shooting strictly "strategic"). I would argue that VATS is superimposed onto a FPS(like leveling mechanics and stat attribution are) and that would be the genre you'd have to roll with. (On the flip side, I wouldn't call Final Fantasy XIII-2 an action game because it features QTEs and the Gestalt system.)

Also Deus Ex(but not HR) has a system like dice rolls by making you having to refine aiming to be more accurate. Mass Effect and Alpha Protocol did too. Worth noting.
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
angular graphics said:
Do aim assist, sticky aim, view friction and all kinds of different assists automatically disable when you play an offline game because "it doesn't really matter" how bad you are when playing offline? No they don't. ;)
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They don't need to be disabled, they work for a controller, and they allow the player to play out their intent. They don't matter in an offline scenario because you're fighting AI, which has always been pretty trivial in an FPS, instead of arguing over e-peen over who can fight who in an FPS with no crutches or whatever.

So I'd agree that it doesn't really matter in an offline game. Just go with what's comfortable. For me, that'll be KB+M.
 
D

Derrick01

Banned
angular graphics said:
Do aim assist, sticky aim, view friction and all kinds of different assists automatically disable when you play an offline game because "it doesn't really matter" how bad you are when playing offline? No they don't. ;)
Click to expand...

All I'm saying is the elitist control argument doesn't really hold any weight to me if we're talking about an offline game. I'll likely be able to clear this on the hardest difficulty without a ton of problem with a pad on PC. The AI just isn't as good as a player.

angular graphics said:
That's a problem of the player, not the control device - you can't fault it :)
Click to expand...

Never said otherwise. I just personally hate it, it's very uncomfortable and un-natural for me.
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Riposte said:
Dice rolls doesn't change how a game is played, only the results. If you take out aiming altogether(which auto-aim does) then it becomes a different beast. Now Fallout 3 has the VATS, which is quite interesting because it actually does make the game more like a classic CRPG(in other words it makes shooting strictly "strategic"). I would argue that VATS is superimposed onto a FPS(like leveling mechanics and stat attribution are) and that would be the genre you'd have to roll with. (On the flip side, I wouldn't call Final Fantasy XIII-2 an action game because it features QTEs and the Gestalt system.)

Also Deus Ex(but not HR) has a system like dice rolls by making you having to refine aiming to be more accurate. Mass Effect and Alpha Protocol did too. Worth noting.
Click to expand...

Actually I'm pretty sure now that most places define Mass Effect as an action RPG. It retains all (or most) of the central RPG elements, but in combat you have direct button-to-action control over your character's movement and attacks. Technically, Fallout 3 is the same if you don't use VATS.
 
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RocketDarkness

Member
So the TF2 items caught my eye. I've owned the first one for a long time, and the promotion gave me the incentive I needed to at least install the first one. Before I give it a whirl, are there any highly-recommended patches/mods to make for a more pleasant experience? I'm using the Steam GOTY edition, if that matters.
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
RocketDarkness said:
So the TF2 items caught my eye. I've owned the first one for a long time, and the promotion gave me the incentive I needed to at least install the first one. Before I give it a whirl, are there any highly-recommended patches/mods to make for a more pleasant experience? I'm using the Steam GOTY edition, if that matters.
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http://kentie.net/article/dxguide/ The Kentie Launcher is good for ironing out a few of the bugs that Deus Ex has on modern systems. The DX10 renderer is also recommended.

You can get the New Vision texture pack if that's your kind of thing, I find it a tad too distracting and prefer the original look of the game.

Other than that, you're set.
 
R

RocketDarkness

Member
Rickenslacker said:
http://kentie.net/article/dxguide/ The Kentie Launcher is good for ironing out a few of the bugs that Deus Ex has on modern systems. The DX10 renderer is also recommended.

You can get the New Vision texture pack if that's your kind of thing, I find it a tad too distracting and prefer the original look of the game.

Other than that, you're set.
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Sweetness, thanks. Looking forward to checking it out. =)
 
J

Jintor

Member
eshwaaz said:
- Story is a muddled mess, plagued by some of the most awkward dialogue and stiff voicework seen in years

- Dull conversation system
Click to expand...

I realise this is somewhat subjective, but:

Wrong wrong wrong wrong,

wrong wrong wrong wrong.

they're wrong

they're wrong

[subbed three reviews on DX a few weeks ago. They're wrong.]
 
C

Clevinger

Member
The only problem with the dialogue/story is the animation of the people while talking. It's weird and janky and couldn't look more unnatural. Though that's one of the things that might have been improved since the leak.
 
R

Red Blaster

Member
Could a reviewer tell us whether NPCs still oddly fidget their arms around when you're talking to them? This annoyed me greatly in the leak.
 
A

angular graphics

Banned
Derrick01 said:
All I'm saying is the elitist control argument doesn't really hold any weight to me if we're talking about an offline game. I'll likely be able to clear this on the hardest difficulty without a ton of problem with a pad on PC. The AI just isn't as good as a player.
Click to expand...

I never said otherwise either, obviously you'll be able to finish the game. Still, all the advantages of the mouse are there, just like all the disadvantages of the gamepad are. They do not magically go away because a game is single player.

Of course there's always the element of preference, but if for example you are playing a driving game with the arrow keys while the game supports a gamepad... you are probably doing it wrong, no matter if you prefer the arrows and you are perfectly capable to finish the game like that.. IMO anyway. :)

And this if from Eidos Montreal's tumblr:

When playing the PC version in the office do many people use a gamepad instead of mouse&keyboard?

Come on! You don’t install a game on your PC to use a gamepad, especially for a FPS game! As far as I know, I didn’t see one single developer playing DXHR on PC with a gamepad. But now that you ask the question I will start looking into it… Hope I don’t catch anyone ;)
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:p
 
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