Always-honest
Banned
seems i'm going to have to buy this game...
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Deus Ex: Human Revolution |OT| I never asked for this... It gave me lemon-lime
- Thread starter abunai
- Start date
Castor Krieg
Banned
spekkeh said:
Yes, sneaking by is the way to go, similar to original Deus Ex.
I think it only breaks down because they double up on the rewards you get when you do a nonlethal takedown.Wallach said:
It makes sense to give you more experience for downing an enemy with a tranq/stun dart/PEPS charge than with a bullet - you always get lethal ammo back when you loot a body, and never nonlethal, so once you've 'spent' a dart/charge, it's gone for good, which isn't the case for lethal weapons, so there's a reward for that.
And it makes sense to give you more experience for downing an enemy with a lethal takedown than a lethal weapon. After all, you've got to get up close instead of being able to do it from cover across the room, and it makes as much noise as firing a nonsilenced weapon (kind of bewildering in and of itself, but whatever).
Problem is, it doesn't make sense to give extra experience for a nonlethal takedown versus a nonlethal weapon takedown. You still have to get closer, but you're also not using a finite resource to do it, and you're not really any more likely to attract attention, either.
Personally, I would rearrange it:
Man Down: +10 (as is)
Headshot: +10 (as is)
Nonlethal Weapon: +20 (as is)
Takedown (lethal): +20 (as is)
Takedown (nonlethal): +10
To me that seems more in line with the cost/ease involved.
Coxswain said:
Well, the thing is looting lethal ammo as a non-lethal player is already kind of a bonus because you are free to convert that into credits where a lethal player may be more inclined to use it. I agree that non-lethal weaponry has a harder time with ammo for their own weapons, though given how effective non-lethal weapons are I'm not sure XP is the right reward instead of something like additional credits opportunities.
You're right in that the bigger problem by far is the takedown experience. Especially once you get the reflex booster, you can get up to 125 XP for a non-lethal double takedown, but only 85 for a lethal double takedown. The latter actually causes more noise and takes the same amount of energy.
What I would prefer to see though is the non-lethal bonus be applied like Ghost and Smooth Operator and on a per-objective basis so that players can't kill people they've knocked out and retain the XP (so there's always the risk of another target finding a body and waking the guy up). You really wouldn't need discrepancies in the per-target rewards that way, I don't think.
Yeah I never played the original Deus Ex, so had to build on prior knowledge from other stealth games. It doesn't help that the game teaches you to take down the first enemy you see, but doesn't have a sneak by tut.Castor Krieg said:
Although I like the game, I actually think the instruction isn't too well integrated into the game (not sure what to think of the tutorial videos just yet, I can see why they kept it out of the game proper so that people replaying the game can skip it). The hacking is also still somewhat obfuscated to me. But I am probably part of the terrible console COD crowd, so what do I know.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Lethal takedowns should be just as silent as non-lethal takedowns. I don't even care about the 20 extra XP, I just want to be able to stab people with my otherwise-worthless arm-blades without alerting everything in a 10-mile radius.
Rickenslacker
Banned
They probably shouldn't have given experience for enemy encounters at all. The way HR handles it is more akin to the Shifter mod for Deus Ex, and I found that had the same downfalls.Mindlog said:
jaundicejuice
Member
Boss fights are the stupidest thing they possibly could've added to this game. What's the point of making a non-violent/hacker/stealth character if I get thrust into these gun fights I cannot otherwise avoid and am horribly equipped to deal with. Put bosses in the game but give me alternatives to combat them, don't force me into a situation and take away all of the freedom I've otherwise been afforded by the rest of the game. Such a frustrating design choice.
I'm totally hung up on the second boss fight. I die within the first few seconds because I haven't built a combat character. I can't run fast or very far for long and I can't sponge in any serious damage. All of my skill points are in hacking with a few other random skills, I can't re-spec so I'm just trapped in this fight? What the fuck is this shit.
I'm totally hung up on the second boss fight. I die within the first few seconds because I haven't built a combat character. I can't run fast or very far for long and I can't sponge in any serious damage. All of my skill points are in hacking with a few other random skills, I can't re-spec so I'm just trapped in this fight? What the fuck is this shit.
Im gonna take this off my chest although im about a bit more than halfway through:
So far the game never got as exciting as the first 10-15 hours.
Its not boring me or nothing like that, but im playing at the hadest difficulty, and at first the game gave me no incentive to kill anyone, so i worked my way with non-lethal weapons and takedowns. I got to the first
assigment and i found it quite brutal. Not in the fact that i would die or anything, but in just that there were so many dudes there, it was a great challenge. I was simply too weak to make it, so i had to go back and do a bunch of sidequests, then go in and try again, still not good - go back and do more sidequests.
And every time i got in, i realized of a new way to enter, a new possibility to finish the mission in a different way and through different means, i felt seriously challenged in the best way possible. Completing that was rewarding as fuck.
Then, as the game went on, i just gotta say that while im really loving it, it never got that challenging and it never got that rewarding.
Specially since the game gave me a reason to kill people, i met with bad dudes that i just wanted to kill, and the game went from being amazing to standing in a corner with cloak on: killing a dude, wait for his buddy to check on him, kill that dude, wait for his other partner to check on him, repeat. I left PILES of bodies behind on the same spot. (being a tiny bit over dramatic for the purpose of my point)
Now, this is of course in part cause of the way im playing the game now, but either way im OP as fuck. Maybe cause i did all the sidequests i could and whatnot, but.. yeah.
Its not like the game plummeted after that part, but it never quite reached that point again for me. I still fucking love it to death, but those first few hours where some of my most fun gaming sessions in years.
So far the game never got as exciting as the first 10-15 hours.
Its not boring me or nothing like that, but im playing at the hadest difficulty, and at first the game gave me no incentive to kill anyone, so i worked my way with non-lethal weapons and takedowns. I got to the first
police deparment
And every time i got in, i realized of a new way to enter, a new possibility to finish the mission in a different way and through different means, i felt seriously challenged in the best way possible. Completing that was rewarding as fuck.
Then, as the game went on, i just gotta say that while im really loving it, it never got that challenging and it never got that rewarding.
Specially since the game gave me a reason to kill people, i met with bad dudes that i just wanted to kill, and the game went from being amazing to standing in a corner with cloak on: killing a dude, wait for his buddy to check on him, kill that dude, wait for his other partner to check on him, repeat. I left PILES of bodies behind on the same spot. (being a tiny bit over dramatic for the purpose of my point)
Now, this is of course in part cause of the way im playing the game now, but either way im OP as fuck. Maybe cause i did all the sidequests i could and whatnot, but.. yeah.
Its not like the game plummeted after that part, but it never quite reached that point again for me. I still fucking love it to death, but those first few hours where some of my most fun gaming sessions in years.
Castor Krieg
Banned
Unknown Soldier said:
This. It doesn't help that the first enemy you take down doesn't alarm anyone nearby. So I tried taking down the first enemy in the factory - that didn't end well.
jaundicejuice said:
Which boss fight is that?
2xmech
Yelena
Also agreed Wallach.
That has been my stance on XP for quite some time. It really showed up in the Mass Effect 2 threads. People were not happy with the objective screen, but plenty of them were as upset with not getting XP immediately. I prefer to get rewarded on an objective basis. Applying an XP bonus to individual kills punishes efficiency. An ultra-stealth character that doesn't leave a shred of evidence (no knockouts, looting, etc) should be massively rewarded.Rickenslacker said:
Discotheque
Banned
SalsaShark said:
that cop is totally a Jensen groupie. After the conversation when you try to talk to him again he keeps saying "give me a call sometime, ok?" lolol
jaundicejuice
Member
Castor Krieg said:
Yelena
I'm oozing hacking, speech and environment navigation augmentations. 0 combat and I'm getting completely worked because of this. Even if I avoid the initial
charge and burst of the typhoon attack, I still can't last long if I get tagged by the typhoon explosion or her dual smgs. I've tried and re-tried this fight, I've ditched my tranq sniper rifle, I have no charges for my stun gun, I've scrounged up some firearms for the nearby guards. There are weapons lockers lining the room I fight her in but I can barely take a moment to grab the contents and I have little to no room in my inventory to spam grab everything. I can't take much, if any, damage and I can't run far or for long. I don't want to mention how many times I've played and re-played this fight but it's enough so that I'm going to write this game off. The environment hazard you can use to knock her cloak out often kills me because Yelena's damaged me and I can't survive the environmental damage. I've got some combo mines that I'm trying to use but they are as much a danger to me as they are to her. I can cloak, very briefly, to throw her off but all that does is postpone my eventual death.
Spoo said:
I would try this if I had any stun charges left. Currently the best option for that are mines and they do me in faster than her.
You would think that about the nonlethal character being able to get more credits, but my purely lethal character (and lethal to the point of wiping out every last civilian in a hub before leaving it, so there were a lot of wasted bullets) still ended up with 50,000 credits to spare, even after buying out the entire stock of every shop in the game just for kicks.Wallach said:
I can definitely get behind per-objective based experience distribution; in general I think it's just the better way to design an RPG. Doing it the other way was probably a very deliberate design choice, though; most people seem to just prefer the psychological effect of having a tiny reward pop up every time they do anything (see also: the wailing and gnashing of teeth over Mass Effect 2 awarding mission-based experience).
jaundicejuice said:
If you throw an EMP grenade at her, I remember her giving you a 15-second breathing space in between her charges at you. Those were enough for me to recover (with perhaps the help of a hypostim or two).
Though to be honest, if you don't have ANYTHING, not even EMP grenades, then I guess you're pretty much screwed. It's one of those old-school games where you don't have a real guarantee you'll actually be able to finish it. Suck it up and restart from an earlier save, making better decisions along the way.
Though to be honest, if you don't have ANYTHING, not even EMP grenades, then I guess you're pretty much screwed. It's one of those old-school games where you don't have a real guarantee you'll actually be able to finish it. Suck it up and restart from an earlier save, making better decisions along the way.
edit: I notice
you said you didn't have enough room in your inventory. Well, stop complaining about it and make some. Drop some of that extra ammo you have, or those conc grenades, or those energy jars.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Jintor said:
She died on my first attempt even though I went in guns blazing. So I sat there next to the demolished chopper kind of bummed for a minute. Then I said fuck that and reloaded and I managed to take them out with some blazing headshot efficiency that I never managed again. It was incredible.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
can you make emp mines?jaundicejuice said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol-nyfpbr7E
Lakitu said:
My journey went something like this:
Step 1: sneak into third floor from the side entrance, get stuff I came for, loot a couple side offices (ignoring the room with the two guys in it because I didn't have double takedown just yet), leave.
Step 2: sneak into second floor, get stuff I came for, bail out. Leveled here and bought double takedown.
Step 3: enter front door, talk way into PD, loot the shit out of everything. Knock people out because I am an asshole and hide their bodies in stupid places. Went back to third floor and did double takedown on the jerks in that one room from earlier. Broke into armory, looted it and locked guard inside. Four cops are stuffed into one of the office vents. Busted doctor's face in the morgue on my way out because he was a snide douchebag.
Step 2: sneak into second floor, get stuff I came for, bail out. Leveled here and bought double takedown.
Step 3: enter front door, talk way into PD, loot the shit out of everything. Knock people out because I am an asshole and hide their bodies in stupid places. Went back to third floor and did double takedown on the jerks in that one room from earlier. Broke into armory, looted it and locked guard inside. Four cops are stuffed into one of the office vents. Busted doctor's face in the morgue on my way out because he was a snide douchebag.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Castor Krieg said:There is no real choice. I'm sorry, there simply isn't. By the time you leave the first hub you can have 3/3 Fortify, 3/3 Stealth Hack, probably lvl. 3 or lvl. 4 Hacking. Also, every Exploration aug - High Jump, Wall Crush, Icarus, Lifting Heavy Objects. These are the core augmentations there, and I'm pretty sure you can run through the game from there without a single upgrade past that point.
I don't mind the Praxis system, because I like to min-max my character, but I can see how this can bug other people.
P.S. Deus Ex just jumped to 10th place on Gamefaqs.
By the time you leave the first hub? I think you're exaggerating significantly.
Icarus - 2 points, Stealth hacking 3/3 - 3 points, Fortify 3/3 - 3 points, lift heavy objects - 1 point, Punch-through-wall - 1 point, Jump high - 2 points, hacking capture level 3 - 2 points.
Did you get 14 praxis points in Detroit? Maybe by the time you're nearing the end of China for the first time you could get all of those, assuming you were exploring every nook and cranny for XP and praxis kits, but you'd be without any of the other useful or cool augs like double-takedowns, cloaking or inventory space increases. Oh, and there's the small matter of the social enhancement aug, which is a must to obtain out of the gate.
I think if you want to sacrifice a bunch of useful/cool stuff in order to have all places open for exploration by mid-game, more power to you. The only real down side to the augs as they stand is that stealth-enhancement and hacking-analyse are essentially useless trees, along with the flash suppression and sprint enhancement augs. I would also say that you missed the gas breathing aug as an exploration, but that one only really helps late game anyway.
Castor Krieg
Banned
What's included in Tactical pack? I'm asking because I already have the Explosive pack, and we will probably get info today about buying the DLC packs (although I hope it is new DLC).
ThoseDeafMutes said:
http://i.imgur.com/pUjBc.jpg
That's where I'm at aug-wise and I just got the mission
to deactivate the signal coming out of Derelict Row.
Castor Krieg
Banned
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Yes, I did get all of them in Detroit. I wanted to get all the Exploration augs before I leave the first hub to do a final sweep of every place there. It is possible, you just need to hack every computer, and try to get as many Ghost and Smooth Operator bonuses as possible.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Wallach said:
Holy shit how did you get so many? Anyway that's 10-11 points (not sure how many you start with in each tree)? You're about to finish Detroit.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Lakitu said:
I did that too. The most awesome part was
bullshitting the two dudes in that room questioning me what I was doing there
Castor Krieg
Banned
ThoseDeafMutes said:
For reference, I loaded my save just before leaving Detroit. I have 62K EXP.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Wallach said:
No, hacking stealth takes 1 to open. But still holy shit, I had no idea it was possible to get so many. I didn't find any kits in the environment in Detroit, guess I wasn't looking hard enough. Even so, I still don't think this is any big problem, although I might make the kits a bit less common early on (perhaps raise the XP cap for getting a new point?). If you've specced your character so you get access to all routes as early as possible, good on you.
Unknown Soldier
Member
jaundicejuice said:
Well, I think DXHR is teaching a valuable life lesson. Pacifist or no, when shit is going down, you want to be the one who has the bigger gun. :3
I think it's funny that I am playing a stealth character too at the moment, mainly because I want the extra XP. I would play a Rambo character if the game was as rewarding for Robocop types as it was for Solid Snake types. But the rewards in the game are heavily skewed towards sneaky players, with the Ghost and Smooth Operator bonuses and the extra XP from non-lethal takedowns. Somewhere along the line the designers started favoring one gameplay style over the others and it shows in the final product. If you play the game like Metal Gear Solid or Splinter Cell you rack up XP and bonuses way faster than if you play it like Gears of War.
Which is kind of disappointing, because I really want to just shoot everything. Actually, what I really want is a sword so I can slice everything. In DX, it was possible to switch on a bunch of augs, walk up to the bosses, and just sword them in the face until they died. This is sadly missing from DXHR, I had one of my most satisfying moments in my gaming memory the time I went up to
Walton Simons
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Unknown Soldier said:
In DX1 the shooting is utterly horrid, so any sane person went for a stealth character anyway. Playing it like rambo makes you miss what's good about it, the level design and the alternate paths to everything. That DXHR actively encourages stealth is a good thing, not a bad thing. As a shooter, it's mediocre at best.
Glass Rebel
Member
_tetsuo_ said:
There's one
on the left side from O'Malley I think. It's a door leading to a electrified hallway, you have to use the three boxes outside to traverse it.
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