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Devil May Cry 4 |OT| of daring to defy your savior
- Thread starter Dahbomb
- Start date
Dahbomb said:You already said this twice in the thread previously. Also, no one is going to be using DMC4 to "boost their Gamerscore" unless they mean get like 200 points at the most. I have seen the Achievement list for DMC4, unless you are a pro at it you will be trying to get the Achievements for over 200 hours.
I mean it's stuff like "S rank King of Hell mode with both characters" to get 50 points or "Get 1 million Red Orbs" to get 50 points. :lol For those that aren't in the know, King of Hell is above Dante Must Die mode and is said to be near impossible to beat let alone S rank.
Oh and this 1up preview is really really good. Very good job Milky!
200 is more than enough for me
okay, info for those curious about Temporal Anti Aliasing, cuz people appear to be misinformed about that too...
Temporal aliasing
Temporal anti-aliasing seeks to reduce or remove the effects of temporal aliasing, which results from insufficient temporal sampling. A common example of temporal aliasing in film is the appearance of vehicle wheels travelling backwards, the so-called Wagon-wheel effect.
A naive approach to generating computer graphics and effects samples a perfect "snapshot" at a moment in time. This is fast and often "good enough" for many applications. However, when attempting to achieve realistic effects which are to be integrated with real footage, temporal anti-aliasing is an important element.
The approach is similar to spatial anti-aliasing. The generated scene is oversampled and then downsampled: that is, it is sampled at some multiple of the desired frame rate (8-16 times is usually effective) and the multiple samples for each frame are combined into a single frame. The method for combination may seek to replicate the optical effects of a particular medium, e.g. film, but often a simple average of the samples is sufficient.
source: wikipedia
so, temporal anti aliasing reduces both aliasing and removes the wagon wheel effect seen in rotating objects.
More info:
What is Temporal Anti-Aliasing?
Basically, instead of using a single, static sampling pattern when AA is enabled, temporal AA allows the board to select from one of several patterns, which it can then switch between on a per frame basis. In other words, every rendered frame is antialiased slightly differently, using a different pattern. If at this point you are thinking that changing the pattern every frame would end up as a horrible, flickery mess, you'd be right. Until you examine the principle a little more closely that is....
What you need to remember here is that the user is not seeing a handful of frames every second, in most cases on a modern GPU you would hope to see some way over 60 frames per second being rendered by the card. When you reach these kinds of performance level, the changes in sampling pattern are happening so quickly, and so frequently, that the human eyes cannot detect the difference between the changes at all. Therefore, the eye sees all of the different patterns used to antialias the image at the same time, thus giving the impression of a higher level of AA....
.....A side-effect of this is that V-sync has to be enabled when temporal AA is used (this is forced on in ATi's drivers when it is in use), and also requires a high refresh rate on your monitor to really do it justice (in the order of 100Hz seems to do the job nicely).
source: elitebastards.com
There you have it, TAA is a technique that is possible only for high framerates with v-sync enabled. It doesn't work well for screenshots but is meant more for moving images. So you guys can stop bitching about the screens and talk about the game. period.
Temporal aliasing
Temporal anti-aliasing seeks to reduce or remove the effects of temporal aliasing, which results from insufficient temporal sampling. A common example of temporal aliasing in film is the appearance of vehicle wheels travelling backwards, the so-called Wagon-wheel effect.
A naive approach to generating computer graphics and effects samples a perfect "snapshot" at a moment in time. This is fast and often "good enough" for many applications. However, when attempting to achieve realistic effects which are to be integrated with real footage, temporal anti-aliasing is an important element.
The approach is similar to spatial anti-aliasing. The generated scene is oversampled and then downsampled: that is, it is sampled at some multiple of the desired frame rate (8-16 times is usually effective) and the multiple samples for each frame are combined into a single frame. The method for combination may seek to replicate the optical effects of a particular medium, e.g. film, but often a simple average of the samples is sufficient.
source: wikipedia
so, temporal anti aliasing reduces both aliasing and removes the wagon wheel effect seen in rotating objects.
More info:
What is Temporal Anti-Aliasing?
Basically, instead of using a single, static sampling pattern when AA is enabled, temporal AA allows the board to select from one of several patterns, which it can then switch between on a per frame basis. In other words, every rendered frame is antialiased slightly differently, using a different pattern. If at this point you are thinking that changing the pattern every frame would end up as a horrible, flickery mess, you'd be right. Until you examine the principle a little more closely that is....
What you need to remember here is that the user is not seeing a handful of frames every second, in most cases on a modern GPU you would hope to see some way over 60 frames per second being rendered by the card. When you reach these kinds of performance level, the changes in sampling pattern are happening so quickly, and so frequently, that the human eyes cannot detect the difference between the changes at all. Therefore, the eye sees all of the different patterns used to antialias the image at the same time, thus giving the impression of a higher level of AA....
.....A side-effect of this is that V-sync has to be enabled when temporal AA is used (this is forced on in ATi's drivers when it is in use), and also requires a high refresh rate on your monitor to really do it justice (in the order of 100Hz seems to do the job nicely).
source: elitebastards.com
There you have it, TAA is a technique that is possible only for high framerates with v-sync enabled. It doesn't work well for screenshots but is meant more for moving images. So you guys can stop bitching about the screens and talk about the game. period.
No but the Achievement list has been posted for quite some time. Plus I know like 5 people who supposedly have the game and are playing it as we speak. I learned quite some stuff obviously, just hoping it all ends up being true.Loudninja said:
One thing I know for a fact is that Devil Hunter is definitely hard. As in DMC1/DMC3SE hard, not the shitty DMC3 checkpoint crap. So it's balanced. Human mode is the game's easy mode and DH is the Normal mode. And there are like 5-6 total difficulty modes, the fans will be at it for a LONG time.
There also appears to be stuff like costumes, new weapons, and even an alternate ending once you beat the higher difficulties. Most of the consensus appears to be that DMC4 on a first walkthrough is merely a brisk offering of the total game play content in the game.
bobbytkc said:
Interesting info, thanks for digging that out ;o It actually makes somewhat sense to my technically inept brain, all "which technique is technically superior" things aside. So is it possible that TAA was added by choice in order make it look smoother in motion as opposed to compensating for an inability to produce AA the traditional way?bobbytkc said:
Psychotext said:
There are many factors that contribute to shimmering. Shimmering is an effect that tends to go away as the resolution of displays increased. Contrast and sharpness settings also differ, and considering that both consoles have different default settings, it is not unusual that console owners calibrate only for one console (usually the 360, since there are more of them out there and it was released first). You may want to increase your TVs sharpness if the blurring on the PS3 is obvious, tho the 360's IQ may suffer in this case.
Other variables include the the quality of your display (older sets may have some ghosting and blurring effects present, especially older plasmas), the connections being used, the size of your display and the distance you are from the display.
So rather than argue, just accept that different people have different viewing experiences, and the end effect in people's homes (not screenshots, which are hardly accurate) are rarely the same.
Dahbomb said:
two pages in, when my posts on shimmering and TAA are forgotten, the whole process would repeat again. You better believe it.
I hope it doesn't tho. I kinda wish people would post cool new videos or just talk about what an awesome playing experience this is (where everyone can be happy
) rather than get involved with this senseless talk.ThirstyFly
Member
Sorry if this has been discussed before, I couldn't find an answer...
Does anyone know if the pre-order artbook is going to be available in Canada? I pre-ordered it at EB over the weekend and the guy knew about the artbook, but had no idea if they'd be getting it or not.
Does anyone know if the pre-order artbook is going to be available in Canada? I pre-ordered it at EB over the weekend and the guy knew about the artbook, but had no idea if they'd be getting it or not.
It was always supposed to come 31st in Japan.gconsole said:I have just been told by the local game shop that the game is delayed to 31st instead of 28th when they promise to have it prior to the real release date
PuppetMaster
Member
I will buy the PS3 version on the 31st in Japan because this is day 1 material.
I might have to buy another DS3 too. My current one spazes out on me. The right analog just plain does not work at times. I thought it was just me but then I heard on the playstation nation podcast one of the guys there had the exact same problem! So maybe a fiasco a la 360's RROD is a foot?
I might have to buy another DS3 too. My current one spazes out on me. The right analog just plain does not work at times. I thought it was just me but then I heard on the playstation nation podcast one of the guys there had the exact same problem! So maybe a fiasco a la 360's RROD is a foot?
Probably not, since there's more aliasing in the PS3 game. The TAA in DMC4 seems to work best in mostly static scenes.Awntawn said:
http://yoda.dip.jp/Game/DMC4/DMC4_12_ps3.png
http://yoda.dip.jp/Game/DMC4/DMC4_12_360.png
rockman zx
Member
At least the aliasing is less noticeable in the PS3 than in Ninja Gaiden Sigma.
EverSoTrendy
Banned
That bitch looks like a man. I still can't get over how ugly she is.
I'm just trying to piece together some sort of reasoning taking in what I've been reading and comparing what I've observed. From trying both demos, the 360 version does seem cleaner around the edges, but some other things are apparent, for example the shaders (most obvious) on the ice fiends, also there is tearing present in the 360 version (minute, but present, whereas I saw none in the PS3 version), and the framerate of the cutscenes. It just doesn't make sense that they would add more features into one and then compromise the other, just to give that one another feature the other doesn't have.danwarb said:
Two possible scenarios I can come up with:
A) Capcom chose to go with TAA to make it easier on the eyes in motion, but is unable to lock v-sync at 60fps (which you can tell is definitely a factor from the present though ever so slight tearing) and compensates instead with the "free MSAA" from the scaler chip for the 360 version.
B) Capcom was unable to get MSAA working on the PS3 version without performance suffering and compensates by adding TAA to eliminate shimmer, and v-sync, and has more room for extra shader effects from the extra power that's not being used for MSAA.
It just doesn't make sense to me that the "technically superior version" as drohne put it would be the one with a less stable (albeit absolutely slight) framerate and less graphical features. Considering the whole point of 60fps is to take performance over visuals, I find it hard to imagine that Capcom would purposely add AA to make the 360 version better at the cost of 1 or 2 fps if they could make it run as steady as the PS3 version.
Opus Angelorum
Member
I thought I was going to buy this on PS3 initially, but I've just pre-ordered the Xbox 360 version.
Psychotext
Member
Surprising how many people are surprised.
dollartaco
Member
It's amazing to me after reading these threads that anybody here actually buys the game and enjoys it. It's amazing to me, actually, that GAF enjoys any game.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
I never knew I was a NG fanboy until I played this demo.
a. the ps3 version's motion blur is not additional processing -- it's a computationally cheap substitute for MSAA
b. the second description of 'temporal AA' pasted in here describes the effect as it's implemented on newish ati pc graphics cards -- the ps3 version of dmc4 is just blending frames with jittered versions of preceding frames
c. my god it's difficult to establish a simple fact on gaf. i think i give up
b. the second description of 'temporal AA' pasted in here describes the effect as it's implemented on newish ati pc graphics cards -- the ps3 version of dmc4 is just blending frames with jittered versions of preceding frames
c. my god it's difficult to establish a simple fact on gaf. i think i give up
Metalmurphy
Member
:loldanwarb said:
Beer Monkey
Member
360 version for me, so I can have access to my (larger) friends list and cross-title messaging/invites.
Of course, I'm sure nobody really wants to hear this, but at least I have both systems, unlike some people who have to tell us what they are buying. :lol
Of course, I'm sure nobody really wants to hear this, but at least I have both systems, unlike some people who have to tell us what they are buying. :lol
I calibrated my hdtv myself, sharpness at 75. I know what you think, but it DOESNT mess with the image, my DMC4 looks not blurred nor too sharp. Now if i set it on dynamic, then yes its to sharp. But with my own settings its perfect. Ill make pics later if no one believes me. I have not noticed that the ps3 version is jaggy either.
There are 2 possibities
A) Im blind
B) Turning the sharpness to 0 isnt always a good thing, god knows i know because it makes everything extremely blurry. (ALL games). Only setting that sharpness zero is good for is PS2 games :lol
There are 2 possibities
A) Im blind
B) Turning the sharpness to 0 isnt always a good thing, god knows i know because it makes everything extremely blurry. (ALL games). Only setting that sharpness zero is good for is PS2 games :lol
Psychotext
Member
Thread is utterly broken at this stage.
Psychotext
Member
Well... he could chat to his friends while playing DMC4 obviously. Also, if someone wants a game of Forza 2 with him they simply send him an invite which he can choose to take or ignore.Loudninja said:
(it doesn't specifically have to be about online stuff for DMC)