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[Son Of Sparda]

We could fight Despair Embodied again only now it would be an amazing fight in a real DMC game.

DE was the giant thingy that had every boss within it at the end of DMC2, right? I really hope that if they ever deiced to bring it back (in any capacity) then they throw everything about the original design away and make it completely from scratch. God I hated every pixel of that thing.
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Quoted for the new page:

Okay guys, I finally got around to finishing the list that we were making.

I changed a few words and sentences so that it would feel less "entitled" and more like suggestions.
There were a few grammar and misspelled errors in there that I fixed (still, my English is far from perfect so please tell me if there are anymore of these errors)
Added some new suggestions like more detailed style ranking system like DmC.
A while back someone asked what would be the point of a "Mercenaries" mode in a DMC game that made a think about it and I realized that in fact I was talking about "Raid Mode" and not "Mercenaries". So I fixed that as well.

So, how is it? Does it cover everything that we wanted to say?

 

[Son Of D]

DE was the giant thingy that had every boss within it at the end of DMC2, right? I really hope that if they ever deiced to bring it back (in any capacity) then they throw everything about the original design away and make it completely from scratch. God I hated every pixel of that thing.

That's Argosax the Chaos. This is Despair Embodied.

Spoiler

I'm surprised I remember the names.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

That's Argosax the Chaos. This is Despair Embodied.

Spoiler

I'm surprised I remember the names.

Thanks, so I remembered wrong.
Honestly, I was wondering why would anyone want to fight that thing as a secret boss so I'm kinda relieved to know that you weren't talking about him

Yeah, I don't remember this guy at all. Did we fight him as Dante? I only finished DMC2 once with Dante so I don't remember much about it. (Well, besides the fact that it was so bad that I never even bothered to start my playthrough with Lucia)

 

[Mizerman]

Thanks, so I remembered wrong.
Honestly, I was wondering why would anyone want to fight that thing as a secret boss so I'm kinda relieved to know that you weren't talking about him

Yeah, I don't remember this guy at all. Did we fight him as Dante? I only finished DMC2 once with Dante so I don't remember much about it. (Well, besides the fact that it was so bad that I never even bothered to start my playthrough with Lucia)

I guess that's why you forgot. Can't blame ya, though.

 

[Son Of D]

Thanks, so I remembered wrong.
Honestly, I was wondering why would anyone want to fight that thing as a secret boss so I'm kinda relieved to know that you weren't talking about him

Yeah, I don't remember this guy at all. Did we fight him as Dante? I only finished DMC2 once with Dante so I don't remember much about it. (Well, besides the fact that it was so bad that I never even bothered to start my playthrough with Lucia)

Dante's Final Boss. Was probably the only decent battle in the game. So in an actual good game there's good potential there.

 

[Dahbomb]

Bolverk is also another cool design, interesting boss fight from DMC2. Again because of what game it is in, the boss isn't that entertaining.

 

[Seyavesh]

holy shit this combo vid! it's old but still geeeeeeez
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A_HqEqpftk

 

[GuardianE]

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Quoted for the new page:

There are couple of typos that I was going to PM you, but I'm guessing this is a working draft. This is kind of nitpicky, but I just had a few suggestions:

-"Good and enjoyable campaign without awful backtracking" is redundant with the "No excessive backtracking" from "things we DON'T like". I'd keep it in the "things we DON'T like category.

-"Good, personal and well written story. (like DMC3)" I feel like this is a little too vague and a little obvious. It's never in their intent to make a bad story. If there aren't specifics, I'm not sure it needs to be included.

- Along those lines "Excessive in-game stats" seems a little vague. Is there specific data we're interested in capturing?

-I'd say "Powerful and charismatic antagonist that acts as a proper foil to Dante physically and ideologically" instead of just "powerful". All the final villains have been "powerful", but the charisma is what distinguishes Vergil.

-"Free camera and jump system from DmC". What jump system is this referring to? If it's the pull mechanics, that shit can stay in DmC.

-"While retaining his depth please try to make Dante a little more accessible like Vergil from DMC4SE." When I read "accessible" and DMC4SE Vergil, I wince. Vergil in DMC4SE is broken easymode. I don't want this for Dante and I don't want it misconstrued that's what people want from the series going forward. There should be varying degrees of complexity in a DMC game, and Dante should remain the pinnacle of that.

-The Bloody Palace timer. I think it's worth having a timer in there for scoring and leaderboard purposes. However, they should just give us the option to disable it and disable ranking.

-You mention a Mission Mode akin to Raid Mode, but what about a Mission Mode like Ninja Gaiden Black, where there are combat challenges scored and ranked?

-I'd elaborate on what a "Sparda wannabe" is, as a human attempting to inherit the power of Sparda. e.g. Arkham and Sanctus.

-I thought the main issue people had with enemies "flipping out" was the actual Chimera Seed infested enemies with their blade attack? I'd definitely make mention of that.

 

[Dahbomb]

By jump and camera system from DmC he basically means that it's easy to move your character in the air while jumping all while having full 3D camera controls. Has nothing to do with the pulls.

Speaking of which I am not sure if it's in there but the camera should be completely 3D with no fixed elements.

 

[Seyavesh]

i also hate frosts flipping out randomly out of your combos on higher difficulties, especially given how fun their weight/hurtbox properties are

 

[Son Of Sparda]

There are couple of typos that I was going to PM you, but I'm guessing this is a working draft. This is kind of nitpicky, but I just had a few suggestions:

-"Good and enjoyable campaign without awful backtracking" is redundant with the "No excessive backtracking" from "things we DON'T like". I'd keep it in the "things we DON'T like category.

-"Good, personal and well written story. (like DMC3)" I feel like this is a little too vague and a little obvious. It's never in their intent to make a bad story. If there aren't specifics, I'm not sure it needs to be included.

- Along those lines "Excessive in-game stats" seems a little vague. Is there specific data we're interested in capturing?

-I'd say "Powerful and charismatic antagonist that acts as a proper foil to Dante physically and ideologically" instead of just "powerful". All the final villains have been "powerful", but the charisma is what distinguishes Vergil.

-"Free camera and jump system from DmC". What jump system is this referring to? If it's the pull mechanics, that shit can stay in DmC.

-"While retaining his depth please try to make Dante a little more accessible like Vergil from DMC4SE." When I read "accessible" and DMC4SE Vergil, I wince. Vergil in DMC4SE is broken easymode. I don't want this for Dante and I don't want it misconstrued that's what people want from the series going forward. There should be varying degrees of complexity in a DMC game, and Dante should remain the pinnacle of that.

-The Bloody Palace timer. I think it's worth having a timer in there for scoring and leaderboard purposes. However, they should just give us the option to disable it and disable ranking.

-You mention a Mission Mode akin to Raid Mode, but what about a Mission Mode like Ninja Gaiden Black, where there are combat challenges scored and ranked?

-I'd elaborate on what a "Sparda wannabe" is, as a human attempting to inherit the power of Sparda. e.g. Arkham and Sanctus.

-I thought the main issue people had with enemies "flipping out" was the actual Chimera Seed infested enemies with their blade attack? I'd definitely make mention of that.

Thank you for great suggestions GE and yeah it's still a work in progress so you guys can still improve and add to it.

- Yeah, I don't know how that happened I'll remove the one from "General Features".

- That line's inclusion is mostly for the "Personal" part. Fans have always complained how DMC4's story for Dante is just another day at the office and nothing is really at stake for him so I added that line to show that we like more "Personal" approach of DMC3 to story. Maybe I should try a different wording to make that more clear?

- It's something that one of you guys said from one of DmC threads that caught my attention. DmC "Stats" are really great for high level players who want to calculate the amount of damage each move deals to each enemy and can really come into play if someone decides to use that data to make tailor made combos for each enemy. I thought that would be something that more high level player might enjoy and want to see in the original series.

- Yep, I'll change that as well. I actually meant to say that myself but since English isn't my native language most of the times I can't find the right words to form the sentences that I want. So I really appreciate that you are taking the time to improve my sentences. Thanks.

- What Dahbomb said But maybe I should change it to "Completely free 3D camera akin to DmC with no fixed elements" ?

- I actually couldn't find any better example so I used Vergil from DMC4SE. Should I just remove him or do you have any better candidate in mind to replace him.

- I never thought there are people who liked that "Timer". I'm in shock right now

Spoiler

. Yeah, I'll change that into "An option to disable the timer".

- Huh, never thought about that one actually. I'll add a new line for Ninja Gaiden like "Mission Mode" and change the MM from "Raid Mode" line to "A new mode".

- Hmmm.... I'm having a hard time sentencing that. Is this okay? "No human villains like Arkham and Sanctus from past games who try to capture Sparda's power and be like him."

- I can't believe I actually forgot that. Yeah I'll definitely add "Chimera Seed Infested Enemies" as well.

Again thanks for great suggestions GE. If you thought of anything else please say them here so I can add/fix them as well.

By jump and camera system from DmC he basically means that it's easy to move your character in the air while jumping all while having full 3D camera controls. Has nothing to do with the pulls.

Speaking of which I am not sure if it's in there but the camera should be completely 3D with no fixed elements.

As I said to GE I wanna replace the "Free camera and jump system from DmC" with " - Completely Free 3D camera from DmC with no fixed elements that makes moving around outside of battle easier."

Do you think this covers what you were saying about the jump and air movements in DmC as well or should I specifically mention that?

i also hate frosts flipping out randomly out of your combos on higher difficulties, especially given how fun their weight/hurtbox properties are

Yep. Those are really annoying.

 

[Dahbomb]

Camera and jump controls are two different things. When you jump in a direction in the old DMC games you are generally locked into a direction but in DmC you can slightly maneuver around. That makes a big difference when it comes to jumping around in the environment.


The timer is fine to have as the default option. I think ranked should be timed because otherwise you can develop cheese tactics to farm style points or recover HP. But you should be able to disable the timer at the cost of lower bonus upon completion of BP.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

Camera and jump controls are two different things. When you jump in a direction in the old DMC games you are generally locked into a direction but in DmC you can slightly maneuver around. That makes a big difference when it comes to jumping around in the environment.


The timer is fine to have as the default option. I think ranked should be timed because otherwise you can develop cheese tactics to farm style points or recover HP. But you should be able to disable the timer at the cost of lower bonus upon completion of BP.

You can? Isn't that mostly tied to Angel glide and not the jumping itself tho? And speaking of which, should I actually add an "Angel glide" like arial move as well?

And regarding Bloody Palace ranking system, I actually think they need to change that quite a bit (hence why it says "An evolved Bloody Palace") so I'm not sure if they should even keep the current structure let alone the current ranking system.

 

[Dahbomb]

You don't need Angel Glide because Star Dash is the same thing. If anything they can allow us to hold down the button so we can travel further with it F needed.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

You don't need Angel Glide because Star Dash is the same thing. If anything they can allow us to hold down the button so we can travel further with it F needed.

But to your earlier point isn't Angel Glide more maneuverable by giving you the ability to give directions while you are preforming it as opposed to Star Dash which is a more fixated aerial move? Is this actually what you were referring to when you said "Jump system from DmC"? The ability to slightly change directions mid-air?

 

[Dahbomb]

But to your earlier point isn't Angel Glide more maneuverable by giving you the ability to give directions while you are preforming it as opposed to Star Dash which is a more fixated aerial move? Is this actually what you were referring to when you said "Jump system from DmC"? The ability to slightly change directions mid-air?

No I am talking about just regular jumping around and getting to ledges and stuff. DmC has more subtle mid-air readjustments that makes it easier to do standard jumping around to get around areas.

 

[Fusion Aura]

But to your earlier point isn't Angel Glide more maneuverable by giving you the ability to give directions while you are preforming it as opposed to Star Dash which is a more fixated aerial move? Is this actually what you were referring to when you said "Jump system from DmC"? The ability to slightly change directions mid-air?

Dahbomb is referring to the jump physics instead of abilities. In DmC, if you were to press either left or right during a jump, the characters trajectory will shift in that direction where as the originals, you couldn't do that as well.
Edit: Beat me to it.

Quoted for the new page:

Anyway, that's a pretty good list for future DMC games though there are a few things I personally disagree with or have caught my attention.

-Excessive in game stats: Don't really feel that it's necessary and I found it a bit distracting during fights. Though if there's a toggle for it, then I have no issues.

-DmC Jump and Free Camera: For the camera, I don't hate the camera angles that much unless I was in some combat scenarios where enemies where hidden off screen. So I guess keep both except keep the camera angles out of combat as much as possible. The jumps however, leave those in DmC, The originals didn't feature that much platforming and TBH, I'd prefer it stay that way meaning those jump physics are unnecessary. In fact, just the idea of incorporating that gives me an uneasy feeling about how it may behave in combat though that's just me being bias against the reboot.

-Dante being more accessible: Others have already touched on this one though I'm not sure how to feel about this.
I feel that one solution to make Dante more accessible would be to give each of his Devil arms more moves as the only gripe I have with DMC4 Dante is that despite him having 3 weapons, to really get the most out of the character, you would have to learn style switching, jump canceling and weapon switching which contrasts to Nero's play style who had a fairly streamlined combat approach with Red Queen.
With more attacks for each weapon, it not only gives pro players even more combo options but allows new players to pick up the character and just play around with the one or two weapons while maybe switching style to suit the situation similar to DMC3.
Though, this is what I feel could make Dante more accessible meaning that there are probably far better ways at doing it.

So yeah, that's all I have to say though the list is already pretty solid as it is already.

 

[GuardianE]

- That line's inclusion is mostly for the "Personal" part. Fans have always complained how DMC4's story for Dante is just another day at the office and nothing is really at stake for him so I added that line to show that we like more "Personal" approach of DMC3 to story. Maybe I should try a different wording to make that more clear?

Maybe something like this?
-The story should have a direct emotional attachment for Dante. Make him care and be challenged.

This voices the concern over the mission being "just another job," but also doesn't necessitate the story to have a direct connection to previously established plotlines. As long as there is an emotional connection established somewhere in the game, then Dante should care, and we should care.

- It's something that one of you guys said from one of DmC threads that caught my attention. DmC "Stats" are really great for high level players who want to calculate the amount of damage each move deals to each enemy and can really come into play if someone decides to use that data to make tailor made combos for each enemy. I thought that would be something that more high level player might enjoy and want to see in the original series.

Hmmm. Maybe something like:
-More transparency with move properties and enemy statistics e.g., damage, knockback distance, range/hitboxes, juggle properties, style points, enemy health.

- What Dahbomb said But maybe I should change it to "Completely free 3D camera akin to DmC with no fixed elements" ?

Like Dahbomb said, maybe have two points:
-Full 3D camera movement
-More freedom of movement and maneuverability during directional jumps

There is already that sort of directional influence when performing a neutral jump in the classic series. I always suspected that the limitation on directional jumps was a deliberate one, as in you've commited to a direction in combat and will take the hit if you chose poorly. I suppose that the introduction of Skystar and other airtime techniques sort of undermines that anyway.

- I actually couldn't find any better example so I used Vergil from DMC4SE. Should I just remove him or do you have any better candidate in mind to replace him.

I'd just remove him as an example, personally. I don't think Dante should be like DMC4SE Vergil. I don't even think a future incarnation of Vergil should necessarily play like DMC4SE Vergil. He's an enormously fun character, but just purely broken without having to work for it.

- I never thought there are people who liked that "Timer". I'm in shock right now . Yeah, I'll change that into "An option to disable the timer".

I'm not a fan of the timer myself, but I know there are people who like it. I think Sectus mentioned it in another thread, and possibly a few others. Having the option to disable feels like a good enough compromise, as long as it either negatively impacts your score or it makes your session "unranked".

- Hmmm.... I'm having a hard time sentencing that. Is this okay? "No human villains like Arkham and Sanctus from past games who try to capture Sparda's power and be like him."

I think "Sparda wannabe" is fine, but maybe elaborate a tiny bit. Just add something like "i.e., no humans trying to harness power of Sparda like Arkham or Sanctus" or however you want to word it?

 

[Dahbomb]

What people mean by excessive in-game stats is that they are talking about the stats stored in the option menu.

We actually don't want a huge clutter on the screen when doing combos. DmC DE actually reduced the clutter from the original.


And on the whole point of Dante. People want the depth to remain the same but the complexity be reduced. That means same amount of combat options but without stufF like D pad switching for Styles. That's what is meant by increasing his accessibility, not make him like DMC4SE Vergil.

 

[GuardianE]

What people mean by excessive in-game stats is that they are talking about the stats stored in the option menu.

We actually don't want a huge clutter on the screen when doing combos. DmC DE actually reduced the clutter from the original.

And on the whole point of Dante. People want the depth to remain the same but the complexity be reduced. That means same amount of combat options but without stufF like D pad switching for Styles. That's what is meant by increasing his accessibility, not make him like DMC4SE Vergil.

In that case, then it kind of blends into the DMC.net idea, but with the data stored locally. Statistics like: enemies killed, weapon usage, hangtime in air, total damage dealt, total bullets fired, orbs collected, total style points, etc. That's different from move properties or enemy health.

I kind of figured that people didn't want Dante simplified to DMC4SE Vergil status, but that's why I'm wary of using him as an example in the wishlist. It begs a comparison, so I feel it's best to get rid of it.

 

[direct_quote]

But I like DMC4:SE Vergil, he just needs his damage nerfed (a lot), and range, and lots of other things, but he's fun to play (and has slick animations). Capcom can't really have the front runner of DMC5 be that complicated, so Dante is probably going to be more like DMC4:SE Vergil. But I guess we'll entrust Itsuno will deliver.

I just want campaign to be closer to DmC in terms of the filler not being as painful as DMC4's. Get rid of the dumb puzzles, and fixed view jumping puzzles with lasers... Ugh all they had to do in DMC4:SE was remove the dumb laser sections, and just fill it with more combat. DMC4 feels like it has the least combat areas in the series...

 

[GuardianE]

But I like DMC4:SE Vergil, he just needs his damage nerfed (a lot), and range, and lots of other things, but he's fun to play (and has slick animations). Capcom can't really have the front runner of DMC5 be that complicated, so Dante is probably going to be more like DMC4:SE Vergil. But I guess we'll entrust Itsuno will deliver.

He's definitely fun to play, but I personally don't think Dante should be anything like him. The biggest issue with DMC4SE Vergil isn't just his damage and range. It's the fact that he can act basically with impunity. His teleport and movement options are straight game breaking, without any penalty, and easy to perform. That alone trivializes any encounter in the game.

I don't think Dante needs to be complicated, but the DMC4SE Vergil comparison is asking for trouble.

 

[direct_quote]

He's definitely fun to play, but I personally don't think Dante should be anything like him. The biggest issue with DMC4SE Vergil isn't just his damage and range. It's the fact that he can act basically with impunity. His teleport and movement options are straight game breaking, without any penalty, and easy to perform. That alone trivializes any encounter in the game.

I don't think Dante needs to be complicated, but the DMC4SE Vergil comparison is asking for trouble.

I think on some level with DMC4 Vergil is where they needed to add a must style mode or god's must die mode to compliment him. Yes he has pretty braindead cancels, but his ease of movement and combat would have lended him well to a super hard difficulty level...

 

[Seyavesh]

they shouldn't simplify dante to be like vergil, period
the two are fundamentally different design-wise and vergil is clearly meant to break all the rules and be an OP bonus character, not the character the game is designed around

 

[Dahbomb]

Dante doesn't need to be complicated, he needs to be a character with a huge toolset and loads of technical depth.

Though achieving both (a Dante with a huge moves set yet isn't complicated to play) is extremely difficult and would require the team to rethink the control scheme.

DmC was an attempt at it. It doesn't touch DMC4SE Dante but even then DmC Dante has more options available to him at one time than any non DMC4 Dante character.


Furthermore it's not enough that Dante has those tools, there needs to be good enough reason to use the tools in combat outside of just swag combos. And that means designing enemies/bosses with various mechanics that can either counter Dante's mechanics or be countered themselves by Dante's mechanics. And of course I don't mean "blue color enemy means hit with blue weapon". Many of Dante's moves in DMC4 are bad in general combat/neutral situations and are really only there for combo fluff. DMC had the same issue although to less of an extent.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I'd love for the DMC4 team to give DMC2 another shot. The story can be expanded and with these bonus characters they could give it a better go.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

Maybe something like this?
-The story should have a direct emotional attachment for Dante. Make him care and be challenged.

This voices the concern over the mission being "just another job," but also doesn't necessitate the story to have a direct connection to previously established plotlines. As long as there is an emotional connection established somewhere in the game, then Dante should care, and we should care.

Yeah that's way better. I'll add something like that.

Hmmm. Maybe something like:
-More transparency with move properties and enemy statistics e.g., damage, knockback distance, range/hitboxes, juggle properties, style points, enemy health.

What people mean by excessive in-game stats is that they are talking about the stats stored in the option menu.

Yeah as Dahbomb said I was actually talking about in menu stats. The DMC.net idea does partially cover this as well but having it as an in-game menu stats would be nice addition to the people who might not want to constantly check the website or those who don't have a very consistent internet connection.

I'll try to make it a little more clear tho, maybe I change it to "In-game menu stats keeping track of your kills, damages, hours played, etc etc."

Like Dahbomb said, maybe have two points:
-Full 3D camera movement
-More freedom of movement and maneuverability during directional jumps

Yeah I think I'll do that.

I'd just remove him as an example, personally

Done.

I'm not a fan of the timer myself, but I know there are people who like it. I think Sectus mentioned it in another thread, and possibly a few others. Having the option to disable feels like a good enough compromise, as long as it either negatively impacts your score or it makes your session "unranked".

I know, I was joking

About it affecting the ranking, I'm not sure if we need to specifically mention that. I mean we are already asking for an evolved version of bloody palace so it should go without saying that they need to change and balance the ranking system to suit the new BP.

I think "Sparda wannabe" is fine, but maybe elaborate a tiny bit. Just add something like "i.e., no humans trying to harness power of Sparda like Arkham or Sanctus" or however you want to word it?

Thanks, yeah I use this sentence as a template and then try to change a few words and see how it goes

Thank you so much Guardian for taking the time to actually write the exact sentences for me, I really appreciate it. So, thanks.

No I am talking about just regular jumping around and getting to ledges and stuff. DmC has more subtle mid-air readjustments that makes it easier to do standard jumping around to get around areas.

Dahbomb is referring to the jump physics instead of abilities. In DmC, if you were to press either left or right during a jump, the characters trajectory will shift in that direction where as the originals, you couldn't do that as well.

Oh yeah now I get what you were talking about. I'll add this using one of Guardian's suggestions, thanks.

-Dante being more accessible: Others have already touched on this one though I'm not sure how to feel about this.
I feel that one solution to make Dante more accessible would be to give each of his Devil arms more moves as the only gripe I have with DMC4 Dante is that despite him having 3 weapons, to really get the most out of the character, you would have to learn style switching, jump canceling and weapon switching which contrasts to Nero's play style who had a fairly streamlined combat approach with Red Queen.
With more attacks for each weapon, it not only gives pro players even more combo options but allows new players to pick up the character and just play around with the one or two weapons while maybe switching style to suit the situation similar to DMC3.
Though, this is what I feel could make Dante more accessible meaning that there are probably far better ways at doing it.

So yeah, that's all I have to say though the list is already pretty solid as it is already.

And on the whole point of Dante. People want the depth to remain the same but the complexity be reduced. That means same amount of combat options but without stufF like D pad switching for Styles. That's what is meant by increasing his accessibility, not make him like DMC4SE Vergil.

I kind of figured that people didn't want Dante simplified to DMC4SE Vergil status, but that's why I'm wary of using him as an example in the wishlist. It begs a comparison, so I feel it's best to get rid of it.

But I like DMC4:SE Vergil, he just needs his damage nerfed (a lot), and range, and lots of other things, but he's fun to play (and has slick animations). Capcom can't really have the front runner of DMC5 be that complicated, so Dante is probably going to be more like DMC4:SE Vergil. But I guess we'll entrust Itsuno will deliver.

He's definitely fun to play, but I personally don't think Dante should be anything like him. The biggest issue with DMC4SE Vergil isn't just his damage and range. It's the fact that he can act basically with impunity. His teleport and movement options are straight game breaking, without any penalty, and easy to perform. That alone trivializes any encounter in the game.

I don't think Dante needs to be complicated, but the DMC4SE Vergil comparison is asking for trouble.

I think on some level with DMC4 Vergil is where they needed to add a must style mode or god's must die mode to compliment him. Yes he has pretty braindead cancels, but his ease of movement and combat would have lended him well to a super hard difficulty level...

they shouldn't simplify dante to be like vergil, period
the two are fundamentally different design-wise and vergil is clearly meant to break all the rules and be an OP bonus character, not the character the game is designed around

Dante doesn't need to be complicated, he needs to be a character with a huge toolset and loads of technical depth.

Though achieving both (a Dante with a huge moves set yet isn't complicated to play) is extremely difficult and would require the team to rethink the control scheme.

DmC was an attempt at it. It doesn't touch DMC4SE Dante but even then DmC Dante has more options available to him at one time than any non DMC4 Dante character.


Furthermore it's not enough that Dante has those tools, there needs to be good enough reason to use the tools in combat outside of just swag combos. And that means designing enemies/bosses with various mechanics that can either counter Dante's mechanics or be countered themselves by Dante's mechanics. And of course I don't mean "blue color enemy means hit with blue weapon". Many of Dante's moves in DMC4 are bad in general combat/neutral situations and are really only there for combo fluff. DMC had the same issue although to less of an extent.

I think it's safe to say that at the very least my comparison managed to breathe a new life into our discussion

But yeah, I don't want them to make Dante a carbon copy of DMC4SE's Vergil either. I compared them cause Vergil is one of the few action characters that I played with who is quite easy to pick up and be enjoyed by newcomers right off the bat but still manages to retain a lot of depth for high level players and hardcore action fans. In that sense, I really do hope that they manage to make Dante a lot more like Vergil from 4SE.

But as you guys said (and showed), comparing Dante to him could be interpreted in different ways and may cause a misunderstanding that we clearly don't want so I said above I'll just remove that "Vergil from DMC4SE" part.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

It's just speculation really but PSU have listed DMC5 as one of the 5 potential PSX announcements that would bring the house down.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1142759

 

[BadWolf]

It's just speculation really but PSU have listed DMC5 as one of the 5 potential PSX announcements that would bring the house down.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1142759

With Kamiya...

 

[Son Of Sparda]

With Kamiya...

Or Mikami...

Spoiler

LMAO at that part.

 

[Dahbomb]

THIS PARTY IS GETTING CCCRRAAAZZZZYYYY!!!!!!!

 

[direct_quote]

So much speculation they can't even get the directors right. Looks like gamefaqs level speculation.

 

[darkslayer101]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npd6N1BX2nk


that is the second time Reuben went out of his way to mention the rumor

 

[Mizerman]

The crazy motivation must return, guys!

 

[Son Of Sparda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npd6N1BX2nk


that is the second time Reuben went out of his way to mention the rumor

Woah, DMC reunion 2015? Where/When was this panel?

 

[GuardianE]

Woah, DMC reunion 2015? Where/When was this panel?

I can't view the video right now, but Reuben, Dan, and Itsuno met pre release DMC4SE. There was a picture on Twitter.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

I can't view the video right now, but Reuben, Dan, and Itsuno met pre release DMC4SE. There was a picture on Twitter.

I think this is different. It's Dan, Reuben and Johnny. I'm watching it right now and it's really fun. Dan just mentioned that he is happy that things turned out this way cause now they (Capcom) gonna bring all of them back (for next DMC).

Crowd was starting to lose it...... when he said "in an alternate universe". LOL!!!

 

[Son Of Sparda]

Oh my God, that video is pure gold. Guys you should really watch it.

From the very beginning Nero was supposed to be Vergil's son. Everyone in development team and all of the guys (Johnny, Dan, Reuben) knew that and after the game released they were expecting fans to figure that out but most people didn't. Reuben says that he would go to different Cons and panels after DMC4's release expecting someone to mention it but nothing. He even wondered that if he should talk about it or not.

Then Dan says that he actually spoiled that part even before the original DMC4 was out in an interview and still no one caught it. Apparently Dan introduced Johnny as his son in one of interviews.

Reuben says that he was like: "No, don't, hushhhh..." . And then after interview Dan says that Reuben was freaking out and then Dan goes:

"Ah, don't worry, nobody pays attention anymore"

LMFAO!!!

 

[darkslayer101]

I think this is different. It's Dan, Reuben and Johnny. I'm watching it right now and it's really fun. Dan just mentioned that he is happy that things turned out this way cause now they (Capcom) gonna bring all of them back (for next DMC).

Crowd was starting to lose it...... when he said "in an alternate universe". LOL!!!

"alternate universe" LMAO he is trying to recover from accidentally leaking DMC5
11:02 when the hype starts

 

[Dahbomb]

Capcom just mutha fucking bring it already!

I can't believe both Reubens and Dan tried to leak that Vergil is Nero's father and no one caught on to it.

 

[OniBaka]

Dan is such a funny guy, quite the opposite of Vergil.

 

[GuardianE]

Yeah, Dan seems super chill. And a sushi lover. Which makes him cooler.

EDIT: Hey, I didn't know JYB auditioned for Dante in DMC3.

 

[Mizerman]

That Quantum Power swag!

 

[direct_quote]

Oh wow I just heard the Dan line, lmao. "They're going to bring us back." I didn't realize how much of an impact Rueben had on Dante's personality though... Cool stuff.

edit: Lol they are referencing that sales projection posted on GAF too about DMC in 2017.

 

[Dahbomb]

Oh wow I just heard the Dan line, lmao. "They're going to bring us back." I didn't realize how much of an impact Rueben had on Dante's personality though... Cool stuff.

edit: Lol they are referencing that sales projection posted on GAF too about DMC in 2017.

What sales projection?

 

[GuardianE]

Capcom Cafe opened today in Japan.

I spy a Dante and Vergil.

What sales projection?

I think he's talking about Capcom listing Devil May Cry in main pipeline series chart?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1124001&

 

[direct_quote]

What sales projection?

I mean fiscal year projection my bad, where it says DMC series coming out in 2017 or whatever that was posted on GAF like a month ago? Also Reuben claims that Itsuno may be consulting for "the game we aren't going to be talking about", though not knowing about it directly...

 

[Dahbomb]

I mean fiscal year projection my bad, where it says DMC series coming out in 2017 or whatever that was posted on GAF like a month ago? Also Reuben claims that Itsuno may be consulting for "the game we aren't going to be talking about", though not knowing about it directly...

 

[Son Of Sparda]

I mean fiscal year projection my bad, where it says DMC series coming out in 2017 or whatever that was posted on GAF like a month ago? Also Reuben claims that Itsuno may be consulting for "the game we aren't going to be talking about", though not knowing about it directly...

I'm pretty sure that he was referring to DmC, cause they were talking about Itsuno's involvement in the Devil May Cry series. Even Dan joked about Emo May Cry after Reuben said that.

Edit: Though later on Reuben did say that Itsuno actually told him that they were discussing about the idea of new DMC within Capcom, but Reuben said that, that's all he knows for sure. Well, besides the rumor that he mentioned before about knowing a guy that knows a guy in Capcom who told him that Capcom is indeed making DMC5 in the original universe with the old cast and they will ask Reuben and rest of the guys to come back and work on it.

 

[direct_quote]

I'm pretty sure he was talking DmC. Even Dan joked about Emo May Cry after Reuben said that.

Well I can't really tell (thought Dan was adding a joke so people don't go crazy over it), but he says Itsuno was talking about DMC5, so maybe they were consulting about DmCE because I doubt they'd talk about DMC5 when DmC was out fresh. https://youtu.be/Npd6N1BX2nk?t=14m10s "