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[ArclightBorealis]

DMC1's visual design, enemy designs, artstyle pretty much blows NG1 out of the water though. Great audio design as well.

Actually DMC1 generally blows every action game in those areas.

Combat has been surpassed by a bunch of games but very few (if any games) maximizes the combat tools as good as DMC1 does. DMC1 has like one useless move (Round Trip although it's a good style tool) and that's it. NG on the other hand is filled to the brim with useless, vanilla moves.

The visual style bit I'd say is debatable, but I'll admit I'm more biased towards that as I was introduced to NG before DMC and was way more fond of the look and feel of Tairon and its surrounding areas way more than Mallet Island.

That, and I feel like as you get higher up in the difficulties more of the combos at your disposal become more useful as Flying Swallows and other universal moves become less effective against the tougher, more agile enemies. Maybe not as maximized as the tools available in DMC1, but I wouldn't call the large majority of the ones in NGB useless.

I think Ninja Gaiden Black actually had pretty strong art and enemy design. It wasn't until Ninja Gaiden 2 when enemy and level design shit the bed entirely. DMC1 might be better, but I don't know if I'd call it a slam dunk.

I actually still kind of like NGII's art in a dumb fun kind of way, between locales like the air fortress, Sky City Tokyo, or the ceremony of Vangelfs playing drums at a ritualistic ceremony getting fiends hype for a resurrection. It's all over the place and inconsistent, but sure as hell more entertaining than whatever the hell Hayashi was going for with 3.

 

[Dahbomb]

Nope, they're right where they need to be. The general gameplay is much better in DMC4SE and the new characters are way more fun this time around.

Ah OK it's just that I thought I have seen you say that you preferred 3 over 4 before.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I loved NG2's art style just because it's goofy and because the main character is the Green Ranger.

Spoiler

He's Tommy goddamnit!

 

[ezekial45]

Ah OK it's just that I thought I have seen you say that you preferred 3 over 4 before.

Yeah, in the past I certainly did. Before playing DmC DE and DMC4SE, my rankings were DMC3 > DMC1 (I still like this game despite being outdated as hell) > DmC > DMC4 > DMC2.

But of course, that's changed now once I played the recent games. The new additions for DMC4 are amazing and shot it up.

 

[direct_quote]

The visual style bit I'd say is debatable, but I'll admit I'm more biased towards that as I was introduced to NG before DMC and was way more fond of the look and feel of Tairon and its surrounding areas way more than Mallet Island.

That, and I feel like as you get higher up in the difficulties more of the combos at your disposal become more useful as Flying Swallows and other universal moves become less effective against the tougher, more agile enemies. Maybe not as maximized as the tools available in DMC1, but I wouldn't call the large majority of the ones in NGB useless.

I actually still kind of like NGII's art in a dumb fun kind of way, between locales like the air fortress, Sky City Tokyo, or the ceremony of Vangelfs playing drums at a ritualistic ceremony getting fiends hype for a resurrection. It's all over the place and inconsistent, but sure as hell more entertaining than whatever the hell Hayashi was going for with 3.

Problem is NG2's campaign is too long and you have a bunch of boring ass looking hallways (and bosses).. Bosses weren't very fun either... DMC bosses have always been more fun than NG bosses IMO.

 

[GuardianE]

I actually still kind of like NGII's art in a dumb fun kind of way, between locales like the air fortress, Sky City Tokyo, or the ceremony of Vangelfs playing drums at a ritualistic ceremony getting fiends hype for a resurrection. It's all over the place and inconsistent, but sure as hell more entertaining than whatever the hell Hayashi was going for with 3.

It's fucking horrible. It went from designs that took you to an interesting and cohesive world to a bunch of designs ripped from the doodles of a 12 year old's algebra notebook:

-Werewolves that throw their own severed body parts
-Spider ninjas that look like actual spiders
-Demons that are tall, gangly, and not the least bit threatening
-A zombie with one eye, a chainsaw arm, and a canon arm
-A Mecha Dinosaur
-A Mecha human spider turret thing

I get that's sort of what they were going for (I hope), but it felt like such a step down for me.

 

[Dahbomb]

It's fucking horrible. It went from designs that took you to an interesting and cohesive world to a bunch of designs ripped from the doodles of a 12 year old's algebra notebook:

-Werewolves that throw their own severed body parts
-Spider ninjas that look like actual spiders
-Demons that are tall, gangly, and not the least bit threatening
-A zombie with one eye, a chainsaw arm, and a canon arm
-A Mecha Dinosaur
-A Mecha human spider turret thing

I get that's sort of what they were going for (I hope), but it felt like such a step down for me.

Honestly it just felt like a one up on the NG designs.

Like they took the NG designs and dialed everything to 11.

 

[Chamber]

Ninja Gaiden 2 is garbage tier, just going to put it out there.

 

[GuardianE]

Honestly it just felt like a one up on the NG design.

Like they took the NG designs and dialed everything to 11.

I don't agree. NGB had a nice variety of designs ranging from classic Japan, modern military, pseudo-futuristic, ancient ruins inspired, mystical, demonic...

There really wasn't anything remotely as ridiculous as the things I listed from NG2. What's most important is the more bizarre enemy designs in NGB felt fine in the context and environment you found them. NG2 was all over the place with this.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Man I am having issues with playing LDK with Nero is there something I am missing?

 

[Dahbomb]

Ninja Gaiden 2 is garbage tier, just going to put it out there.

Exaggeration as hell.

It's a great action game with superb weapon variety and insane pace to the combat. Solid 8/10.


Garbage tier is NG3 and NGY.

NGB had a nice variety of designs ranging from classic Japan, modern military, pseudo-futuristic, ancient ruins inspired, mystical, demonic...

That perfectly describes NG2's designs. It had a bunch of shit from everything just like NG1.

 

[ArclightBorealis]

Man I am having issues with playing LDK with Nero is there something I am missing?

Nero and Dante don't have the hitboxes that Vergil, Lady, and Trish do to handle that many enemies. That might be why.

 

[Infinite Justice]

enabled turbo mode and played around a bit

1. imadeahugemistake.gif...its fucking glorious
2. i... think my IR game is actually better with it on O_O

Still trying to get use to shoot on L1 though

These new Angelo's seem annoying and i'm dieing to Frosts :/ (though that may be a symptom of not playing for a few days plus Turbo mode adjustments and fucking lasers eating a good chunk of my health)

Also i'm wondering if i should jump to dodge more or the actual dodge/table hopper.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Exaggeration as hell.

It's a great action game with superb weapon variety and insane pace to the combat. Solid 8/10.


Garbage tier is NG3 and NGY.



That perfectly describes NG2's designs. It had a bunch of shit from everything just like NG1.

Agreed, I thin NG2 gets undue hate. I give it a 9 outta 10 just because of dual shake . :E

Nero and Dante don't have the hitboxes that Vergil, Lady, and Trish do to handle that many enemies. That might be why.

Hmmm. Might be a good point. I'll try devil hunter and see how it goes.

 

[GuardianE]

That perfectly describes NG2's designs. It had a bunch of shit from everything just like NG1.

But the designs in NGB were reserved and made sense within context, like I said in the next sentence. Maybe I'm just not a fan of "dialing it up to 11". Werewolves in France, and those gangly demons in the city looked ridiculous.

A fucking ghost subway train was a boss.

 

[Dahbomb]

But the designs in NGB were reserved and made sense within context, like I said in the next sentence. Maybe I'm just not a fan of "dialing it up to 11". Werewolves in France, and those gangly demons in the city looked ridiculous.

A fucking ghost subway train was a boss.

I don't know man, nothing really made much sense to me in NGB. It was basically like playing the old school 2D action games where you have an amalgam of enemy designs in each subsequent level. NG2 was more of that (actually it was exactly that).

Like no denying NG2 had some truly shit tier enemy designs but I felt NGB had some of those too (some of the generic bosses included). It's just that since everything was dialed to 11 in NG2 it was just REALLY bad.

I do agree that the loss of hub/unified world hurt NG2 a lot as it was basically just segregated levels after levels (like you were just globtrotting around). But you guys have to be nuts to deny the insanity and awesomeness of the latter 1/3rd of the game. Damn near masterpiece status with the stuff they had you go through. Like eerie misty forest with spider robots, into completely open sunbaked desert fighting a legion of centaurs into a boss fight in a marbled room with blood in giant pools and the legendary staircase to hell... shit was OD!

 

[Chamber]

Exaggeration as hell.

It's a great action game with superb weapon variety and insane pace to the combat. Solid 8/10.


Garbage tier is NG3 and NGY.

Nah, like I said, there's more to this than combat and I can't think of much NG2 did well outside of it's base mechanics. I despise that game.

 

[GuardianE]

I don't know man, nothing really made much sense to me in NGB. It was basically like playing the old school 2D action games where you have an amalgam of enemy designs in each subsequent level. NG2 was more of that (actually it was exactly that).

I do agree that the loss of hub/unified world hurt NG2 a lot as it was basically just segregated levels after levels (like you were just globtrotting around). But you guys have to be nuts to deny the insanity and awesomeness of the latter 1/3rd of the game. Damn near masterpiece status with the stuff they had you go through.

Yeah, I'm just talking specifically about enemy and boss design. NGB felt more cohesive to me. I played NG2 to death, and it took me 1000'ding the game to actually appreciate it fully (I hated the game's combat at first). The final section of the game is the highlight, Hayabusa village and the other area through the blood rain.

It's everything else I had issues with.... the two cities, the jungle, the airship. None of these things are that strange until you start introducing the enemies encountered.

 

[InfiniteNine]

I'm finding NG2 a bit overwhelming atm so I put it aside. I think the encounters aren't balanced too well so far coming off of NGB.

 

[RoboPlato]

Since there's a lot of discussion about other character action games, what would you guys recommend I try next? I've only really played DMC/DmC and MGR. Bayonetta is on my list if I ever get a Wii U.

 

[Dahbomb]

I'm finding NG2 a bit overwhelming atm so I put it aside. I think the encounters aren't balanced too well so far coming off of NGB.

Balance was definitely not its strong suit. The rocket/projectile spam in that game was just absolutely non sense.

Since there's a lot of discussion about other character action games, what would you guys recommend I try next? I've only really played DMC/DmC and MGR. Bayonetta is on my list if I ever get a Wii U.

Ninja Gaiden Black (XB1) and Ninja Gaiden 2 (360). Original versions.

Godhand on PS2. Zone of the Enders 2 on PS2. Darksiders 1/2 on 360/PS3.

God of War games are good too (though by this point you are past the entry level for character action games and GoW is generally the entry level action game for many).

 

[ShinMaruku]

Only issue I can say is NG2 needed 1 more refinement to catch up to where Black was and the over abundance of the ff screen projectiles. But It's a great game. If they can synthesize what came from it and the one on one combat with mooks in NG3:RE it's going to be something awesome.

 

[GuardianE]

Since there's a lot of discussion about other character action games, what would you guys recommend I try next? I've only really played DMC/DmC and MGR. Bayonetta is on my list if I ever get a Wii U.

Play Ninja Gaiden Black and Bayo. Complete the trinity. Godhand, too.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I am almost ready to reccoment Oneechanbara Z2 Chaos but I need more time in that game before I make that statement. The tools that game gives you is kinda batshit.

 

[RoboPlato]

Play Ninja Gaiden Black and Bayo. Complete the trinity. Godhand, too.

I actually think I have Godhand still lying around. I really did not like it the first time I played it but now I understand the genre a lot better. Is Sigma a decent substitute for Black? I know there's a lot of debate about that but I don't have an Xbox.

 

[Mr. X]

DMC4SE definitely puts it over DMC3SE for me, no doubt. Just wish DMC4 had better bosses or DMC3 had better mooks.

DmC Dante and Vergil need to be in a better game. Fun movesets but the mooks suck and the bosses suck.

 

[GuardianE]

I actually think I have Godhand still lying around. I really did not like it the first time I played it but now I understand the genre a lot better. Is Sigma a decent substitute for Black? I know there's a lot of debate about that but I don't have an Xbox.

If you don't have an XBox and it's the only way you'll be able to play it, it's a decent substitute. It's not an egregious downgrade like Sigma 2 was.

For Godhand, Mike Kob actually has some great combo videos and is currently doing a comprehensive LP on his Youtube channel (with notation, no commentary) of Godhand. It's really informative and I highly recommend it.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLc3QkV-L-tFsYAsIOsgu16D0jNGdrsvAX

 

[Chamber]

Sigma is a fine substitute if you don't have access to Black. Bayonetta 1 and 2 are both must play as well.

 

[Mr. X]

And Wonderful 101

 

[direct_quote]

I actually think I have Godhand still lying around. I really did not like it the first time I played it but now I understand the genre a lot better. Is Sigma a decent substitute for Black? I know there's a lot of debate about that but I don't have an Xbox.

Just play God Hand with the Kick Me Sign on(don't use God Hand and Roullette moves), then you will appreciate the combat more...

 

[RoboPlato]

And Wonderful 101

I want a Wii U for Platinum's games more than Nintendo games at this point.

 

[Dahbomb]

I actually think I have Godhand still lying around. I really did not like it the first time I played it but now I understand the genre a lot better. Is Sigma a decent substitute for Black? I know there's a lot of debate about that but I don't have an Xbox.

Sigma is fine if you don't have access to NGB.

Godhand is definitely a game that looks like a generic piece of shit PS2 game until you try to play on Normal and get your ass handed to you and you have to learn the mechanics of the game (handled very different from your standard action game).

Bayonetta 1/2 are of course among the trinity with DMC and NG.

 

[Chamber]

And Wonderful 101

Don't fall for this man's trick.

 

[Sorral]

Since there's a lot of discussion about other character action games, what would you guys recommend I try next? I've only really played DMC/DmC and MGR. Bayonetta is on my list if I ever get a Wii U.

Onimusha series for sure. I think Darksiders and Dante's inferno deserve a mention at least.

NG and Godhand got mentioned already.

Edit: I should say that Onimusha isn't on the same speed as DMC, MGR, and Bayo. But I always considered it to be part of the genre.

 

[skLaFarebear]

And Wonderful 101

Forever the best.

 

[InfiniteNine]

I want a Wii U for Platinum's games more than Nintendo games at this point.

They're actually the reason I own a Wii U. I love W101 and Bayonetta! Bayonetta 2 is alright.

 

[RoboPlato]

Just play God Hand with the Kick Me Sign on(don't use God Hand and Roullette moves), then you will appreciate the combat more...

Sigma is fine if you don't have access to NGB.

Godhand is definitely a game that looks like a generic piece of shit PS2 game until you try to play on Normal and get your ass handed to you and you have to learn the mechanics of the game (handled very different from your standard action game).

Bayonetta 1/2 are of course among the trinity with DMC and NG.

Onimusha series for sure. I think Darksiders and Dante's inferno deserve a mention at least.

NG and Godhand got mentioned already.

Thanks for the advice. Some of the older titles will be tough to track down but I really want to get deeper into the genre. I'm quite surprised at how much I enjoy it once everything clicks. Never thought I would be good at these sorts of games so I stayed away for a long time.

 

[BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!]

Ninja Gaiden 2 is amazing, only real downfall is the lack of balancing since Itagaki was sadly forced to rush it out.

Just don't play it on anything higher than way of the warrior if you value your health and sanity. And if you don't want to get carpal tunnel either :lol

 

[ArclightBorealis]

Since there's a lot of discussion about other character action games, what would you guys recommend I try next? I've only really played DMC/DmC and MGR. Bayonetta is on my list if I ever get a Wii U.

Along with what's already been mentioned, play PS2 Shinobi. It's an unforgivingly hard game with some rough spots, but its major combat mechanic is incredibly unique and still not been emulated by any other series after it. Include Nightshade (Kunoichi) as well if you like the first game well enough.

Others I'd include are Killer is Dead, since that's the closest any of Grasshopper's titles I feel like is to approaching character action (lot of emphasis on just guards/dodges and maintaining high combo counters). Simple yet for satisfying and visually nuts.
For 2D, there's Rainblood Chronicles Mirage on Steam, which is basically 2D Wuxia Devil May Cry. One of the characters even has summoned swords, so the comparisons are even more apt.

 

[Clawww]

It's fucking horrible. It went from designs that took you to an interesting and cohesive world to a bunch of designs ripped from the doodles of a 12 year old's algebra notebook:

-Werewolves that throw their own severed body parts
-Spider ninjas that look like actual spiders
-Demons that are tall, gangly, and not the least bit threatening
-A zombie with one eye, a chainsaw arm, and a canon arm
-A Mecha Dinosaur
-A Mecha human spider turret thing

I get that's sort of what they were going for (I hope), but it felt like such a step down for me.

what always confused me was giant lava turtles in the ice mountains

god that game was so infuriating. I still had fun with it, though. loved the claws. that's a weapon I'd like to see in DMC and more games in general.

 

[Dahbomb]

Thanks for the advice. Some of the older titles will be tough to track down but I really want to get deeper into the genre. I'm quite surprised at how much I enjoy it once everything clicks. Never thought I would be good at these sorts of games so I stayed away for a long time.

Honestly none of the action games are that hard to get into.

I think the two hardest games are Ninja Gaiden 1/2 on Normal and the original DMC3 release (which basically does not exist). Godhand is also hard but the difficulty scales with your performance so it gets easier if you get hit a lot/die a lot (where as becomes really hard if you start stylin').

If you missed it the first then I will say again that you have to absolutely try out Zone of the Enders 2. It's an audio visual masterpiece of action gaming. Very simple and straightforward mechanics but pretty much everything it does is completely unique to the genre. It's a blast from start to finish.

 

[RoboPlato]

Honestly none of the action games are that hard to get into.

I think the two hardest games are Ninja Gaiden 1/2 on Normal and the original DMC3 release (which basically does not exist). Godhand is also hard but the difficulty scales with your performance so it gets easier if you get hit a lot/die a lot (where as becomes really hard if you start stylin').

If you missed it the first then I will say again that you have to absolutely try out Zone of the Enders 2. It's an audio visual masterpiece of action gaming. Very simple and straightforward mechanics but pretty much everything it does is completely unique to the genre. It's a blast from start to finish.

I've always wanted to play ZoE2. Maybe during the summer game drought I'll get out my PS3 again and give NGB and ZoE2 a spin.

 

[BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!]

Don't feel compelled to start God Hand on Normal if your gonna play it. Easy is still more than challenging in that game, and doesn't rob you of any of the fun.

Go Normal on a second playthrough and beyond though.

 

[Ghost Slayer]

Does Bloody Palace have different scale on enemies per stage? I thought some enemies after stage 20 was too hard (Son of Sparda difficult?)
Also, how can i git gud with boss battles, i tried to keep style meter and attacked boss but not good enough

 

[InfiniteNine]

Going to get a PS2 in sometime soon so I should finally give God Hand a shot!

 

[Sorral]

If you missed it the first then I will say again that you have to absolutely try out Zone of the Enders 2. It's an audio visual masterpiece of action gaming. Very simple and straightforward mechanics but pretty much everything it does is completely unique to the genre. It's a blast from start to finish.

I've always wanted to play ZoE2. Maybe during the summer game drought I'll get out my PS3 again and give NGB and ZoE2 a spin.

Oh my god.. how the hell could I forget ZoE2 when I still replay it every now and then >< I wouldn't wait until later in the summer to play it if I were you. lol
Oh and update it if you will use the disc version for HexaDrive amazing patch.

 

[Dahbomb]

Does Bloody Palace have different scale on enemies per stage? I thought some enemies after stage 20 was too hard (Son of Sparda difficult?)
Also, how can i git gud with boss battles, i tried to keep style meter and attacked boss but not good enough

First step to getting good with boss battles is to learn the attack patterns and learn not to get hit. Once you can get them to the point where you rarely get hit then the Style meter will come flowing.

 

[skLaFarebear]

Berial is definitely one of the toughest bosses in the game. I actually think it was the hardest for me in my first DH playthrough, though that could be because I suck.

Though he still gave a lot of trouble in LDK with Vergil.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

Play Ninja Gaiden Black and Bayo. Complete the trinity. Godhand, too.

*Cough*Darksiders 1 and 2

I want a Wii U for Platinum's games more than Nintendo games at this point.

Do it! JUST DO IT!

Turn out we may still have the Lucifer cancel:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8rO4YxXBqkg

 

[Mizerman]

I want a Wii U for Platinum's games more than Nintendo games at this point.

You won't regret that decision.