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[kevboard]

(timestamped)



Better quality videos give better insights to some of the games. although the new files they have still are too low quality to judge how the overall image quality will look on a subjective level on an actual TV in front of you.

Street Fighter 6:
Seems to run at 540p Docked, using DLSS to 1080p. Looks sharper than the native 1080p of the Series S due to how awful RE Engine's TAA is.
Lacks SSR (which is arguably an upgrade due to, again, how awful RE Engine's SSR look) and some other graphical features of the Series S. Textures look sharper however.

Metroid Prime 4:
Seems to run internally at 1440p 60fps using an unknown form of Antialiasing that creates a clean sharp final image, and seems to reconstruct additional detail that gets lost if you scale the image down to actual 1440p.
Possibly FSR1, but it's missing typical FSR1 signs.
(Switch 1 = 900p 60fps with no AA)

Pokémon Legends Z-A:
Seems to be 1080p 60fps using TAA that looks quite soft. The image cleans up over time after camera cuts, which is a telltale sign of TAA.
(Switch 1 = 720p 30fps with no AA)

Kirby and the Forgotten Land:
Seems to be 1080p 60fps possibly using FSR1 to upscale to 4k. looks more likely to use FSR1 than Metroid does.
(Switch 1 = Dynamic 1080p~810p 30fps)


They are disappointed by how conservative the upgrades of especially Pokémon and Kirby are compared to the more substantial boost the Zelda games get, which go all the way from dynamic 900p 30fps to 1440p 60fps (although Oliver jokingly proclaims that it might be better that way in Pokémon's case, as a higher resolution would make the flat and detailless buildings even more obvious)

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Dacvak]

Wow, when I watched the SF6 footage I genuinely thought it was native. DLSS is truly magical, and it's a really good sign that Capcom is able to 4x upscale using DLSS and actually have the performance budget to do so.

Hopefully other devs start to intelligently implement DLSS into their games, as well. Especially Nintendo; it would be incredible if their 1st party games started utilizing DLSS. It's kind of annoying that they're not, yet.

 

[corgiix3]

DLSS making 540p look that good is crazy to me

 

[lestar]

Seems™

 

[kevboard]

DLSS making 540p look that good is crazy to me

it both shows how good DLSS can be, but also how awful TAA often is.

there's a reason a whole subreddit exists called r/FuckTAA (although DLSS is also a form of TAA of course, and therefore they hate that too)

 

[Steve Holt]

DLSS making 540p look that good is crazy to me

Agreed. If Xbox Series S had this tech would have solved an awful lot of problems

 

[DeepEnigma]

Now let's see the 540p to 1080p on a large 4K set.

 

[tkscz]

Metroid Prime 4:
Seems to run internally at 1440p 60fps using an unknown form of Antialiasing that creates a clean sharp final image, and seems to reconstruct additional detail that gets lost if you scale the image down to actual 1440p.
Possibly FSR1, but it's missing typical FSR1 signs.
(Switch 1 = 900p 60fps with no AA)

Find it weird they assume it's FSR1 and not Nintendo's DLSS considering they had to be told games were using DLSS before they could see it.

Also there are Switch games that use FSR2, so why assume it's FSR1?

 

[Mr Moose]

Find it weird they assume it's FSR1 and not Nintendo's DLSS considering they had to be told games were using DLSS before they could see it.

Also there are Switch games that use FSR2, so why assume it's FSR1?

Because it looks like shit like FSR1 does probably.

 

[Dacvak]

Agreed. If Xbox Series S had this tech would have solved an awful lot of problems

I only just noticed your user name, probably since you're a new member. Just wanted to say…

 

[Mister Wolf]

The antialiasing in Prime might be DLAA.

 

[amigastar]

Idk but i find the fact that a Nintendo console is able to do DLSS still exciting.

 

[GigaBowser]

df change every week cus they make clirkbait bouts games on show floors instead of waiting to harv finish games

 

[blacktout]

Find it weird they assume it's FSR1 and not Nintendo's DLSS considering they had to be told games were using DLSS before they could see it.

Also there are Switch games that use FSR2, so why assume it's FSR1?

This was my first thought too, especially since they don't seem to be able to pin down exactly what they're looking at and they bungled spotting DLSS in SFVI. Seems like they're setting themselves up to be dunked on again, but, hey, maybe that's good for engagement.

 

[LordOcidax]

DF guessing the resolutions: The series

 

[Fake]

540p upscale to 1080p. I was already expecting a lower resolution for SF5.

DLSS doing a good job as expected.

 

[StereoVsn]

DLSS from 540p could work really well especially in handheld mode. I really wish Nintendo started using DLSS as well.

 

[LordOcidax]

Idk but i find the fact that a Nintendo console is able to do DLSS still exciting.

With the Street Fighter example, i think i am going to take the L, because i hate upscale techniques, but the final result looks really good.

 

[Fake]

Idk but i find the fact that a Nintendo console is able to do DLSS still exciting.

For me is the main selling point besides Nintendo games.

 

[kevboard]

Find it weird they assume it's FSR1 and not Nintendo's DLSS considering they had to be told games were using DLSS before they could see it.

Also there are Switch games that use FSR2, so why assume it's FSR1?

Nintendo used FSR1 before in Zelda.
FSR1 also has no motion artifacts, FSR2 does.

FSR1 is not the same as FSR2, they are 2 completely different solutions with 2 very different usecases. the fact that they share the same name is very misleading, as they have basically nothing in common.

FSR1 can be used to clean up an image and give it a bit more edge detail, without adding anything nasty to the image. meanwhile FSR2 always comes with artifacts that make the image unstable in motion.

FSR1 is essentially just an advanced edge enhancer that has almost no perofmance cost, and can therefore be implemented without much thought.
the Steam Deck for example lets you enable FSR1 from its sidebar with a single click... that's how simple it is to add to a game.

 

[tkscz]

Nintendo used FSR1 before in Zelda.
FSR1 also has no motion artifacts, FSR2 does.

FSR1 is not the same as FSR2, they are 2 completely different solutions with 2 very different usecases. the fact that they share the same name is very misleading, as they have basically nothing in common.

FSR1 can be used to clean up an image and give it a bit more edge detail, without adding anything nasty to the image. meanwhile FSR2 always comes with artifacts that make the image unstable in motion.

FSR1 is essentially just an advanced edge enhancer that has almost no perofmance cost, and can therefore be implemented without much thought.

Sounds like AMD essentially went backwards going from 1 to 2

 

[RoadHazard]

So MP4 isn't native 4K after all? Not that I think that's very important, but it does make it a bit less impressive. Also means Nintendo were lying, or at least not telling the whole truth.

 

[RoadHazard]

Find it weird they assume it's FSR1 and not Nintendo's DLSS considering they had to be told games were using DLSS before they could see it.

Also there are Switch games that use FSR2, so why assume it's FSR1?

DLSS is probably way more expensive, even with the ML hardware. Might be too expensive for 60fps.

 

[kevboard]

Sounds like AMD essentially went backwards going from 1 to 2

well not really. it's just that they aren't even related technologies.

FSR1 is a lightweight solution that tries to add details to polygon edges while also cleaning them up a bit, by using an algorithm that scans the already created frame for edges.

FSR2 is a temporal image reconstruction solution that uses camera jittering, motion vectors, depth information and color information from multiple frames to reconstruct detail and create a higher resolution final image from a low resolution input.


FSR1 is to FSR2 what FXAA is to TAA. they aren't even remotely comparable.
it's kinda annoying that they used the same name for both.

in reality FSR2 is more closely related to DLSS2 than to FSR1. FSR2 is almost identical in how it works to DLSS2, DLSS2 simply has 1 additional step where the ML model helps correcting errors, which FSR2 lacks... but they do basically the same thing otherwise.
and both DLSS2 and FSR2 are both more closely related to TAA than either of those 3 are to FSR1.

FSR1 doesn't do anything either of them do.

 

[Robochobo]

540p docked? What?

 

[DoomGyver]

Glad I didn't go any larger than a 55" 4k.

 

[BlownUpRich]

Metroid Prime 4 60 FPS mode isn't native 4K like some people thought...

 

[Parazels]

Metroid Prime 4:
Seems to run internally at 1440p 60fps using an unknown form of Antialiasing

Sounds like some extraterrestrial technology!

 

[Baemono]

Agreed. If Xbox Series S had this tech would have solved an awful lot of problems

It wouldn't fix the burden of its existence

 

[Kataploom]

Metroid is confirmed to be 4K in the direct, even if just using DLSS, but FSR 1? What are they smoking? This is probably a follow up of "Switch 2 doesn't have enough AI power for DLSS" narrative (it probably doesn't but not because of DF estimates which have been all wrong so far).

And Kirby was confirmed in the Treehouse to be 1440p, not 4K or 1080p, here's where they confirm Kirby resolution (timestamped):



The upgraded Switch 1 games that didn't already implemented some sort of TAA are probably all running natively because they lack any motion vectors implementation, that's why I think Zelda games might be running at 1440p native since they would have to put their hands deeper into code for using DLSS... But the assumption that Zelda games are 1440p is a DF guess so I'll take is with a grain of salt until the actual game comes out.

 

[kevboard]

Agreed. If Xbox Series S had this tech would have solved an awful lot of problems

the biggest issue of the Series S is its memory. I don't think DLSS would help it that much.
it was a mistake to cheap out on memory for the S.

 

[nordique]

DLSS is actually secret sauce

 

[VGA-Games]

Digital Foundry are guessing Resolutions and Upscaling Technologies of Video Games based on Videos which is an absolute Joke!

 

[Deerock71]

It wouldn't fix the burden of its existence

It drug down the current gen just long enough for Nintendo to catch up. It can die now.

 

[kevboard]

Metroid is confirmed to be 4K in the direct, even if just using DLSS, but FSR 1? What are they smoking?

I mean, if we had high quality 4K screenshots we could check ourselves...

This is probably a follow up of "Switch 2 doesn't have enough AI power for DLSS" narrative (it probably doesn't but not because of DF estimates which have been all wrong so far).

this never happened btw.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Wow, so Nintendo "messed up" by putting a too high res screen of 1080p on the handheld

Fucking DF

 

[GigaBowser]

Wow, so Nintendo "messed up" by putting a too high res screen of 1080p on the handheld

Fucking DF

they says they should puts a 720p screen ahahaha df

 

[kevboard]

And Kirby was confirmed in the Treehouse to be 1440p

I mean, if we had high quality 4K screenshots we could check ourselves...

this is the closest moment I could find where it is somewhat possible to maybe count an edge by counting the specular highlights on the vertical beams of the building:

and this counts out to 1080p
but it's hard to find useable edges in their footage as the youtube compression smears over most of the screen. you have to look for moments where they stand still for a while, and where there are edges with high contrast (like these specular highlights) that the YT compression doesn't swallow.
and if it uses FSR1, the same applies, FSR1 will smooth over edges, but will struggle at high contrast edges like these specular highlights.


EDIT:
in fact, looking at the HUD of the game (had to find a moment where it was against a dark background for contrast), THE HUD seems to output at 1440p.
so what looks like is happening here is that the 3D elements render at 1080p, the 2D elements (HUD/UI) render at 1440p... and they probably use FSR1 to scale the 3D it to 1440p.

on the P1 health bar I get 20 or 21 steps on a 30 pixel ruler, which is 1440p or 1512p. would be weird if it rendered at 1512p, so I feel like that 21 count I get in different moments is down to youtube smearing something in.

 

[Killer8]

Holy shit the Pokémon team discovered anti-aliasing.

 

[kevboard]

Holy shit the Pokémon team discovered anti-aliasing.

yeah, but still waiting on them discovering proper LOD handling and good looking texture tiling.

 

[Buggy Loop]

"I think its thanks to Lurig, is that the guy's name on the Discord, who did the heavy lifting of the pixel counting there"

Am I understanding what they're saying right? They're pixel counting from few hundred MBs files with a fan on Discord with no idea how the material was even extracted and they point out how typically for Sony / Microsoft they would be GBs?

Why are they wasting our time.

 

[pulicat]

DF keeps changing their tune about Switch 2 performance, lol.

 

[FalconPunch]

The more we hear about Switch 2, the worse it gets. Technically speaking, it sounds like a big joke. If at launch you're already dropping down to 540p at docked mode, the systems power is already tapped out.

 

[Deerock71]

Poor nerds.

 

[Bitstream]

DF keeps changing their tune about Switch 2 performance, lol.

Last time I checked they compared SF6 on the switch2 to being ~ps4 level quality while there were two screens side by side showing the S2 was clearly better than the Series S.

 

[Baemono]

this never happened btw.

At some point (during 2023-2024) they said they doubt a mobile SoC that would power the Switch 2 would have tensore core (or something like that - I am no expert at all on the subject, I don't even know what it is) to have DLSS

 

[Sebastian1295]

540p resolution is just awful. Are we back in the wii era with these resolutions, like holy moly what an abomination. And how can't they get that ugly pokemon legends game to 4k for crying out loud. The switch 2 can only pump that thing out at 1080p????? Game looks like a gamecube game for crying out loud. Ya this is unimpressive for a 450 dollar machine.

 

[Klosshufvud]

Last time I checked they compared SF6 on the switch2 to being ~ps4 level quality while there were two screens side by side showing the S2 was clearly better than the Series S.

That's more to do with RE Engine being a piece of shit where a ML upscaler does a better job presenting the game than the actual engine's native rendering. I enable DLSS on PC mostly to be rid off these modern engine artifacting and whatnot.

 

[Darkness_Arises]

At some point (during 2023-2024) they said they doubt a mobile SoC that would power the Switch 2 would have tensore core (or something like that - I am no expert at all on the subject, I don't even know what it is) to have DLSS

They are true about the tensor core count and TOPs being low, if they said that. It would be a stupid statement to claim that an Nvidia SoC will outright not have any tensor cores. Especially, since they used a downclocked laptop 2050 as a model system analogous to the Switch 2 SoC and that GPU has tensor cores.
They might have mentioned DLSS to 4K or DLSS quality being out of reach, since you can perform some kind of low res upscale even with the pathetically low TOPs on the Switch 2 SoC. SF6 with the 540p to 1080p DLSS upscale is a good example of this.

That's more to do with RE Engine being a piece of shit where a ML upscaler does a better job presenting the game than the actual engine's native rendering. I enable DLSS on PC mostly to be rid off these modern engine artifacting and whatnot.

If your game cannot reach a high enough resolution on the target hardware (and I would argue even if it can), it is borderline criminal to lather the screen in detail destroying effects like DoF, chromatic aberration, film grain, vignetting, TAA without a proper sharpening pass, etc. The Series S suffers a lot more from this due to the 1080p ish output resolution. I will gladly sign the petition to make all of these effects toggleable even on console hardware. I also do not like motion blur though I can understand the beneits of the effect.