Ulysses 31
Member
Why didn't they test Dark Souls 1&3 also? 
dotnotbot
Member
Well, it may give a nice, artificial pop due to raised brightness and saturated colors. But as John said, it doesn't really do what HDR really is for - it won't give you missing bits of color information, there won't be better shadow/highlights details etc.
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Monkeygourmet
Banned
It's ironic that MS seem most obsessed with their legacy when the other 2 companies actually have legacy's worth preserving yet don't seem bothered
It is, just a different variation and let's be honest, if most games "HDR" can be classified as HDR (where the lazy method is just to shove SDR numbers into a HDR container) then there is no reason why this shouldn't be as it's working with what it's got and is certainly a lot more accurate than most TV's "fake HDR".
Esppiral
Member
Nothing can be worst than the RDR2 implementation...
carloseduardocd
Member
Matt on Auto HDR.
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Kuranghi
Member
Whoa I didn't know Noctis was an albino until now! Sweet upgrade!
Jesu Christi its fucking awful, I had to put it on USB drive and stick in TV because I thought there was a problem with the HDR playback in Windows.
The colours are often oversaturated, any extra "pop" is like any old shitty tonemapping built into TVs from the last 5 years and the HUD is literally glowing on my set. I don't know if its Digital Foundry fucking with the image in post that causes part of that but I doubt its something they'd do since they are trying to show us how it actually looks.
It just looks like there is a problem though of some sort though. I have tons of HDR content on my PC and it all plays perfectly in mpv. VLC has a mental darkening of the image that fucks the gamma which I suspect is something to do with exclusive fullscreen as mpv flicks over to a proper HDR output when I fullscreen it and is dark like VLC until I do that.
Hopefully the feature will actually be able to jump into the games pipeline with some titles and avoid the glowing HUD and actually increase the dynamic range instead of just ruining all the skin tones (+ other problems mentioned above).
I think they said it can do that didn't they? If its always just going to be a post processing effect then just don't worry about it and buy a modern Sony/Pana/LG OLED or Sony LCD and use it built-in tonemapper.
I know they said its better than in-built tonemapper because it won't give you more display lag, but surely this adds lag internally? I know its a big beefy CPU/GPU doing the work instead of a little FPGA though so I can see how the added lag might be negligible compared to the TV.
Jesu Christi its fucking awful, I had to put it on USB drive and stick in TV because I thought there was a problem with the HDR playback in Windows.
The colours are often oversaturated, any extra "pop" is like any old shitty tonemapping built into TVs from the last 5 years and the HUD is literally glowing on my set. I don't know if its Digital Foundry fucking with the image in post that causes part of that but I doubt its something they'd do since they are trying to show us how it actually looks.
It just looks like there is a problem though of some sort though. I have tons of HDR content on my PC and it all plays perfectly in mpv. VLC has a mental darkening of the image that fucks the gamma which I suspect is something to do with exclusive fullscreen as mpv flicks over to a proper HDR output when I fullscreen it and is dark like VLC until I do that.
Hopefully the feature will actually be able to jump into the games pipeline with some titles and avoid the glowing HUD and actually increase the dynamic range instead of just ruining all the skin tones (+ other problems mentioned above).
I think they said it can do that didn't they? If its always just going to be a post processing effect then just don't worry about it and buy a modern Sony/Pana/LG OLED or Sony LCD and use it built-in tonemapper.
I know they said its better than in-built tonemapper because it won't give you more display lag, but surely this adds lag internally? I know its a big beefy CPU/GPU doing the work instead of a little FPGA though so I can see how the added lag might be negligible compared to the TV.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I think while cool sounding, unless it got data from the game engine and some per title support from the devs, I am not sure how great it can be. It can have better HW and software doing the post-processing enhancement than your TV, but it is still fake HDR.
Masterbrew
Member
it looks pretty unimpressive. If it can't even handle white text properly it can't be using AI.
Kuranghi
Member
Ah well, best thing is the reduced lag then, which is probably under 10ms of difference and an undetectable difference for most console gamers. I thought it would be balls based on its description because it would be too crazy to write software that could interact with the many dozens of different game engines. Its not worth the effort if people are wowed by this anyway.
Kuranghi
Member
Logo/HUD detection is quite hard actually because they don't want to accidentally dim solid bright highlights. You can tell an algorithm to look for solid single colours but then its going to remove all the white specular highlights as well.
I also don't think they have the processing power to scan each frane for text (by matching it with a database of fonts/typography) without adding tons of extra input lag.
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Neko Mimi Mode
Member
For most games, it's a really nice upgrade. I do think the 16x AF applied to every BC game and, where applicable, resolution doubling are better features, but this is still great to have.
Preferred the Jeff Grubb video on it, generally, though
Preferred the Jeff Grubb video on it, generally, though
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Masterbrew
Member
Well, they have to.
It takes over before the general output is compressed to Rec.709, so it's technically the same amount of latency as native, just instead of getting a signal and sending it as SDR, it's sending it as HDR and using the AI functions beforehand to adjust itself to what it thinks it should be in an expanded range.
Self
Member
Yes, basically an algorithm which tries to boost contrast ratio. I used the inbuild upconversion of my TV and some results were really nice while others ruined the original look of the movie/game. It's really hit or miss at the moment.
nowhat
Member
I still feel white UI texts will be a problem, but we'll see.
(on a semi-related note, someone should force Netflix not to run subs at full brightness when viewing HDR content, they can be absolutely blinding in darker scenes - I've complained about this a few times but their customer support is useless)
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Did they never fix that?
Riky
$MSFT
They did, it now has two HDR modes.
Low Moral Fibre
Member
That's just the HDR in FF15 not auto HDR.
Tiamat2san
Member
Great feature.
The implementation will evolve with time.
The back compat team members are wizards!
Can't wait to try some old favourites.
The implementation will evolve with time.
The back compat team members are wizards!
Can't wait to try some old favourites.
LordOfChaos
Member
Very cool feature. Software can improve with time. Wish Sony also did it.
JLB
Banned
Definitely its a nice have, I guess once the AI gets better, it would be able to detect text on the screen and disable hdr there.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The past isn't going anywhere... give them time.
freefornow
Member
Excuse my ignorance, but who is Matt? Is it the guy from Era?
carloseduardocd
Member
He was Principal Software Engineer on Playstation. He left few months ago.
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Tripolygon
Banned
This is what I also thought they would be doing but its a cool feature for those with TVs that don't have that feature built in. The fact that they are are tweaking the results per game is pretty cool too.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
If the game has not been authored with HDR in mind I would expect very mixed results, even with really good AI.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
You can set the subtitle color on Netflix, can't you? At least I know you could in the past, because I remember it defaulting to a hideous yellow that I immediately changed to white.
Guess you can't set the brightness though.
But yes, I agree, they're way too bright.
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Arkham Knight and Geometry Wars looked amazing, better than a handful of games with developer made HDR.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
A mixed bag maybe doesn't give it justice, kind of makes it sound 50/50. It seems more like they said in a lot cases it looked great, and some some others they had mixed results. Overall it was positive. That said, I personally think HDR is overrated, LOL. (and yes I have TV's that can actually do true HDR)
Still, if it improves the image on most games, can't complain.
Still, if it improves the image on most games, can't complain.
Karak
Member
He is in our discord. Truly awesome dude and brilliant
-Arcadia-
Banned
I understand it's a WIP, and I appreciate the ambition here, but I left that video thinking I'd want to leave this feature turned off, unless like Arkham Knight here, someone informs me the game is better with it on.
It seems all too easy, especially if you've never played the game before, to completely skew the developer's intended vision.
I think it's a good thing that Microsoft booted GTA 4 based on bad feedback, and that level of discretion is going to need to become a thing, for people to want to trust this to display games properly.
It seems all too easy, especially if you've never played the game before, to completely skew the developer's intended vision.
I think it's a good thing that Microsoft booted GTA 4 based on bad feedback, and that level of discretion is going to need to become a thing, for people to want to trust this to display games properly.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Lol no, that guys not a developer. Not sure why people put him on a pedestal, he's as much an insider as the janitor.