DF - Doom Dark Ages PS5/PRO & Series S/X showdown.

The 14% is used to rise the resolution nothing else. Fps drops in combat are related to the cpu usage.

Not necessarily, going by the PC benchmarks, available GPU memory for different cards is making a huge difference in performance.

Also, DRS has a lower ceiling, once it hits that, frames are dropped. The GPU resources most definitely come in handy there, if it's a GPU related bottleneck.
 
Not necessarily, going by the PC benchmarks, available GPU memory for different cards is making a huge difference in performance.

Also, DRS has a lower ceiling, once it hits that, frames are dropped. The GPU resources most definitely come in handy there, if it's a GPU related bottleneck.
And curiously ps5 pro has the same drops even with more bandwith/gpu memory, look at the coincidence. They just haven't take in the count the alternate usage of the cpu/gpu with variable frequency of the ps5 hardware, seems straight to the face to me.
 
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And curiously ps5 pro has the same drops even with more bandwith, look at the coincidence.

er .. it doesn't?

PS5 Pro is operating with higher DRS bounds, while the performance is better "by a good margin" compared to base PS5 per DF.

The extra GPU power is helping it out there.
 
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er .. it doesn't?

PS5 Pro is operating with higher DRS bounds, while the performance is better "by a good margin" compared to base PS5 per DF.

The extra GPU power is helping it out there.
They said ps5 pro has the same occasional fps drops of ps5 base if my memory not tricked me...and surely it's not "regular" the series X hardware has the fps performance advantage over the ps5 pro.
 
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Mark Cernys worst designed console yet. Pssr is not great and almost no games even have improved RT on Pro let alone achieve the fabled "quality mode at 60 fps using pssr". Pssr is very unstable still and will be dropped for FSR4 when that comes out most likely. I have so many questions I'd like to grill Cerny with regarding the Pro.

If Cerny knew that he had to keep the CPU the same for compatibility reasons then why didn't he give us more than 45% on the GPU? Why would he improve RT capabilities if he knew that the weak CPU wouldn't allow devs to take advantage of those RT gains? Why say the Pro eliminates having to choose quality or performance mode when that was BS?

And at $700 + $100 for a disc drive Sony charged enough they shouldn't have had to be so conservative with specs. Why wasn't PSSR properly trained and iterated on so it was ready to handle UE5 and RT better? Instead of the noise and artifact ridden examples we have?

Why is Sony so lax and without standards for games in securing the coveted "Pro Enhanced" tag? Despite the weak specs, devs should still be able to get more out of games like Indiana Jones and Doom on Pro ...

I don't buy that Pro couldn't handle RT reflections for instance in Doom...or something better than Low setting of Rtgi in Indiana Jones! But Sony doesn't care about Pro owners instead they would rather enable devs to release weak ports under the guise of "Pro enhanced" because its purely about making money with Microsoft now. They know people will act like these games are good on Pro even when they're not. 3 games from MS in the last several weeks that amounted to higher dynamic resolution and nothing else. Oblivion, Doom, and Indiana Jones. So they were developed using the Pro's sdk and that makes it alright to simply have higher DRS range? I don't think so!
The system clearly feels like a scam at this point.

And I doubt that it is selling a lot, so I don't think devs will put in much effort in the future to support it
 
The system clearly feels like a scam at this point.

And I doubt that it is selling a lot, so I don't think devs will put in much effort in the future to support it
Series X system felt like a scam because ps5 base can beat it sometimes with less hardware grunt?
 
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They said ps5 pro has the same occasional fps drops of ps5 base if my memory not tricked me...

They say it has some drops in the same stress areas, but the performance is better by a "good margin". Where PS5 seems to have longer stretches of mid/low 50's, Pro only has momentary drops and then it goes back to 60.

Timestamped.

 
By now it's clear that PS5 Pro users can't expect anything from Bethesda games and I'm fairly certain thats on Microsoft not wanting to have their games look better on Playstation. Convince me otherwise.

There could be truth to that, but I think another factor is that Bethesda hasn't really been technically relevant in a long time... Their focus is obviously on the Xbox versions and even though they're doing PS5 games again, these are all pretty last minute. Just look at the lack of Starfield on PS5. We know the game didn't perform well enough, but the time table to get it on PS5 hasn't been easy with the rest of their obligations.

In short, I don't think it's necessarily nefarious.

"Lazy" ports and remasters don't inspire a lot of confidence and that isn't restricted to Bethesda here. Just look at Day's Gone Remastered or Returnal. I put quotation marks around lazy because I think unironically that is a lazy way to to describe these. Rather they're low effort/low resource projects.

I'll add that Doom JUST came out and is already looking like it'll fall off the first page on PSN within a week or two.
 
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They say it has some drops in the same stress areas, but the performance is better by a "good margin". Where PS5 seems to have longer stretches of mid/low 50's, Pro only has momentary drops and then it goes back to 60.

Timestamped.


Can you explain to me what so special about the Series X hardware to have more stable fps perfomance compared the ps5 pro. Now I'm curious.
 
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Starting to think when companies say "this game was built from the ground up for this generation" what they mean is "we are implementing a bunch of new short cuts and tricks and our game is going to look like a blurry mess."
 
Where do you heard this bullshit? Guess it's the typical excuse of some egos to accept sometimes ps5 overtake the series X.
Bullshit?? Guess the typical excuse of some egos to deny pure logic and something that has always been assumed as a fact that the platform with the largest user base is generally the one that Studios give priority in optimitation and even designing a game.
 
Can you explain to me what so special about the Series X hardware to beat the ps5 pro in the fps perfomance? Now I'm curious.

Could be something like DRS bound being a little ambitious on Pro right now, where it's much more conservative on SX (1080p lows vs ~1300p lows)

Expect the next patch or two to help fix these drops, along with other minor tweaks, like 99% of games do these days.
 
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Bullshit?? Guess the typical excuse of some egos to deny pure logic and something that has always been assumed as a fact that the platform with the largest user base is generally the one that Studios give priority in optimitation and even designing a game.
You know right the base of development it's the pc platform than ported to the series X and ps5 in their respectively different tools kit. They don't start with the ps5 code to port to the series X tools, what hell of stupidity is that.
 
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I didn't enjoy the last Doom game either
Same. I waited a year to play that game on PS5, with the new features. I think I put about 90 minutes into it before uninstalling and selling my copy.

To this day, I'm triggered by seeing "Low Ammo" on screen when playing games, as that's all I ever saw in Eternal.
 
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Nah, the feature works. VRS is applied on certain elements only.

Despite it, the overall screen clarity is notably sharper on Xbox.


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And it helps retain performance, the PS5 is running ~10 fps behind Series X in the same combat areas.


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It uses some kind of software VRS on PS5 too. They really shouldn't use any VRS as the game appear super soft on all platforms IMO.

Anyways the framerate drops are likely caused by lack of optimization as they also occcur on PS5 Pro which is quite more powerfull (Tflops and bandwidth) than XSX. Thoses games always ran much better on Xbox platforms, this is not new. So much that DF used those games for years when they wanted to show how better X1X was versus PS4 Pro.

Are you telling me XSX is more powerful than PS5 Pro and this is the reason it runs better on XSX? It's more likley an optimization problem, often it's caused by DRS.
 
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Despite it, the overall screen clarity is notably sharper on Xbox.

TDZIa9c.png
The blurry TAA makes it hard for me to see the PS5, XSX, and even the PS5 Pro clearly.
The poor quality of YouTube and VRS make it even worse.
I'll try it with Game Pass(XSX), but will skip the Pro version for now.
 
People acting like they've never seen a mid gen refresh console before.

On XOX (and I'm sure the PS4 Pro) most games were just a tweaked setting here and there, a higher res, or a better framerate - sometimes even less as a result of the higher res being pushed!

Yeah wasn't it somewhat common that games on Xbox One X would have a slightly poorer framerate because it would be pushing/maintaining a higher res?...possibly to high
 
Could be something like DRS bound being a little ambitious on Pro right now, where it's much more conservative on SX (1080p lows vs ~1300p lows)

Expect the next patch or two to help fix these drops, along with other minor tweaks, like 99% of games do these days.
If most of drops happen during the combat it's extremely unlikely it was the gpu the cause.
 
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It uses some kind of software VRS on PS5 too. They really shouldn't use any VRS as the game appear super soft on all platforms IMO

At normal viewing angles, the difference is about impossible to see and it helps retain GPU performance for the developers, which is arguably more important.

It's one of those intelligent tweaks that has been tainted by these 500% ultra magnification analysis's. PS5 Pro has hardware VRS support, they should definitely be using it there.
 
IQ looks bad. I agree with others VRS should be dropped. They need some serious patches and improve the IQ at least. SS is totally unacceptable IMO, it is a blurry mess
 
The PS5 and PS5 Pro versions need patches, they can run at 60fps perfectly, the Series S version is horrible with such low resolution.
 
IQ looks bad. I agree with others VRS should be dropped. They need some serious patches and improve the IQ at least. SS is totally unacceptable IMO, it is a blurry mess
I don't know how works VRS hardware but if it's tied to the TOPS job should work extremely well and with a lot less artifacts on ps5 pro to give even more benefits.
 
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You know right the base of development it's the pc platform than ported to the series X and ps5 in their respectively different tools kit. They don't use the ps5 code to port to the series X tools, what hell of stupidity is that.
No, that's not the case...

The PC is the tool, but the design and optimization of a multiplatform game always has a target audience, and that's usually the platform with the largest user base. Subsequently priority is given to adapting and optimizing ( what makes the difference) first for that base platform, followed by the rest.
 
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It's obvious the PS Ports weren't ready yet. Satya told Phil day and date everywhere last June and they had to scramble to get the game gold. I imagine the game will be a locked 60 on Pro once they further optimize it.

That said, I agree with most of the above in regards to PSSR. It's a gimmick technology at this point that is a nightmare to implement. I guarantee within a year Switch 2 versions of games will be looking as clear as some Pro games due to the power of DLSS. FSR and to an extent, PSSR are generations behind DLSS and it's not even close. The Pro is a beta test at this point to have a somewhat functioning upscaler day one on PS6. The only thing Nintendo ever got right from a hardware standpoint was partnering with Nvidia.
 
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No, that's not the case...

The PC is the tool, but the design and optimization of a multiplatform game always has a target audience, and that's usually the platform with the largest user base. Priority is given to adapting and optimizing ( what makes the difference) for that platform, followed by the rest.
Strategies like this are more a thing of tiny studios. The largest one have completely different team and environment for the different consoles. And also the series X had the biggest advantage to share the development enviroment with the pc, so, paradoxically, someone could prefer to start to work with series X and "porting" just later to the ps5.
But if we are talking of the actual situation, considered the last horrible xbox strategies of MS, could really happen that many developers start to care less to optimize for the xbox hardware for pure economical reason.
 
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It's obvious the PS Ports weren't ready yet. Satya told Phil day and date everywhere last June and they had to scramble to get the game gold. I imagine the game will be a locked 60 on Pro once they further optimize it.

That said, I agree with most of the above in regards to PSSR. It's a gimmick technology at this point that is a nightmare to implement. I guarantee within a year Switch 2 versions of games will be looking as clear as some Pro games due to the power of DLSS. FSR and to an extent, PSSR are generations behind DLSS and it's not even close. The Pro is a beta test at this point to have a somewhat functioning upscaler day one on PS6. The only thing Nintendo ever got right from a hardware standpoint was partnering with Nvidia.
I guarantee to you it can't happen considered the limited specs of the switch 2. There is nothing of magic in the DLSS algorithms and with less hardware resources can't surely beat another upscaler based to the same logic but with just a different branded name. DLSS it's neither that superior as some people tend to believe. Said that, considered the size of the screen, switch 2 will be more than fine with such custom DLSS.
 
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At normal viewing angles, the difference is about impossible to see and it helps retain GPU performance for the developers, which is arguably more important.

It's one of those intelligent tweaks that has been tainted by these 500% ultra magnification analysis's. PS5 Pro has hardware VRS support, they should definitely be using it there.
Hardware RDNA2 VRS is a bad technology. All PC gamers who tested both always remove it for a good reason. The trade-offs are not worth it. I read some say 7% better performance with PS1-like textures.
 
Why did they concentrate on mentioning it's software based and not on the fact that in one of these the mountain is a low res blur and there is severe aliasing on the ribs?

Yep, it has different issues on both version and Xbox even has worse textures on this shot.

My biggest gripe is that game just looks like shit, we expected some incredible graphics from this studio but this? Brown, boring and uninspiring...

I will have to see how it looks high res on my PC.
 
People acting like they've never seen a mid gen refresh console before.

On XOX (and I'm sure the PS4 Pro) most games were just a tweaked setting here and there, a higher res, or a better framerate - sometimes even less as a result of the higher res being pushed!
Yep. More often than not on the One X specifically, you would see third party games perform a little worse than PS4 Pro, due to the developers of said game using the extra horsepower to push for higher resolutions. Very rarely would we see games actually receive improved settings on the console, and increased frame rate was hit or miss, due to the One X having the same overall CPU as the base Xbox One. RDR2 and a handful of other games showcased what the system was capable of, but those examples weren't the norm. Doesn't mean it was a bad console though.

Mid gen consoles aren't high-end hardware, despite the increased price tag. People really should try to stop reverting back to square one in this regard. It's always going to be higher resolutions, slightly better fps, and maybe slightly higher settings, sometimes. The PS5 Pro is a PS5, just one with a stronger GPU and higher bandwidth. It isn't a revolutionary device in the console space, nor was it ever designed to be so, despite what marketing convinced people to believe.

It's doing exactly what it's meant to be doing: giving people who care/notice, or have the money to burn, a slightly better visual and performant experience in their games. Sometimes you'll get more, but it won't be the norm.
 
Hardware RDNA2 VRS is a bad technology. All PC gamers who tested both always remove it for a good reason. The trade-offs are not worth it. I read some say 7% better performance with PS1-like textures.
Its use in XSX has been shown on different occasions to be magnificent and worth it....VRS hardware in XSeries surely has special optimization vs PC. That there are situations where its implementation has not been the best makes the same sense as when PSSR is implemented horribly, and that doesn't mean you say it's 'not worth it.'

Then, comparing this with what PC users do is of little relevance. One is a closed system where the studio or developer decides the best situation. In the other (PC), the user decides what is for them (based on the power of their PCs) and priorities, apart from having many more options for scaling and AA in their hands. If PSSR were available on PC...... Surely most users would choose other options according to their equipment.
 
I don't know if that's what's happening (probably), but it would be funny to "complain" about that situation when PS5 is usually the Studios' base platform for the vast majority of the time and the rest of the versions are the ones that adapt to that circumstance...


You know it and they know it too....
I would say that it's a valid complaint no matter what's happening most of the time.

But the thing is, if Microsoft truly attempts to transition into a multiplat publisher then they need to be good everywhere. No exceptions.

They can't afford to be bad outside of Xbox when Xbox is dying, they have nothing to fall back on, literally. If bad ports becomes common on PS5 they'll crumble fast as a publisher there. They need the positive chatter and they'll have to work for it every time since their own fans won't be there clapping their hands.

And if they think it's inconvenient for their PR to have a 1st party game being better on PS5 Pro then they should've had their own mid gen upgrade…. They've made their own bed here.
 
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I would say that it's a valid complaint no matter what's happening most of the time.

But the thing is, if Microsoft truly attempts to transition into a multiplat publisher then they need to be good everywhere. No exceptions.

They can't afford to be bad outside of Xbox when Xbox is dying, they have nothing to fall back on, literally. If bad ports becomes common on PS5 they'll crumble fast as a publisher there. They need the positive chatter and they'll have to work for it every time since their own fans won't be there clapping their hands.

And if they think it's inconvenient for their PR to have a 1st party game being better on PS5 Pro then they should've had their own mid gen upgrade…. They've made their own bed here.
The thing is that MS is doing good everywhere here and some simply want to make it seem like it isn't. There are countless cases of multiplatform games from studios and third-party publishers with the same or even worse results.... In the end, it gives the impression that, for some, 'doing well' means putting XSX in the background and prioritizing PS5....
 
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The thing is that MS is doing good everywhere here and some simply want to make it seem like it isn't. There are countless cases of multiplatform games from studios and third-party publishers with the same or even worse results.... In the end, it gives the impression that, for some, 'doing well' means putting XSX in the background and prioritizing PS5....
They aren't even doing well on their own console, there's settings that don't even work. And Series S version looks terrible. This was rushed on everything.
 
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The thing is that MS is doing good everywhere here and some simply want to make it seem like it isn't. There are countless cases of multiplatform games from studios and third-party publishers with the same or even worse results.... In the end, it gives the impression that, for some, 'doing well' means putting XSX in the background and prioritizing PS5....
Have you watched the video?

PS5 version sometimes perform worse than Series S……
PS5 Pro version have almost no visual upgrades and sometimes run worse than Series X……

This is not "doing good", sorry.
 
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Between Indy and now Doom, IDTech has taken the lead as arguably the most performative engine in the market.

Solid 60fps with RTGI on console hardware when so many games struggle to hit a consistent performance without those features.

Wonder if there's still time to shift the inevitable Halo Remake or Fallout 5 over to IDTech.

🙏
 
Between Indy and now Doom, IDTech has taken the lead as arguably the most performative engine in the market.

Solid 60fps with RTGI on console hardware when so many games struggle to hit a consistent performance without those features.

Wonder if there's still time to shift the inevitable Halo Remake or Fallout 5 over to IDTech.

🙏
I think the bang for the buck is pretty poor compared to eternal. Yeah it looks bit better but eternal runs much faster
 
Stupid warring aside, my god IQ sucks on all platforms. Especially after pristine RE4R on a Pro that I'm playing right now.
That's the real takeaway. It won't get any better as these industry people can go online and find hordes of gamers talking gleefully about PSSR and DLSS. If the reception of these slop scalers wasn't so good, there would be more pressure to just not use them. At this point is anyone even expecting PS6 and XB5 to run at native res and refresh? Just going off the top of my head, were Gamecube and Dreamcast the most recent consoles to actually hit that target?
 
They aren't even doing well on their own console, there's settings that don't even work. And Series S version looks terrible. This was rushed on everything.
The flaws you mention are trivialities, certainly nothing that undermines the experience. On the other hand, you have a technologically very complete game running at a perfect or almost perfect 60 fps on all platforms. Much more than what 98% of multiplatform games can say at their launch. And that doesn't take into account that it hasn't been released yet and that a day one or upcoming patch will likely resolve those small details.

Have you watched the video?
Maybe that's a question for you
PS5 version sometimes perform worse than Series S……
PS5 is performing light-years better than XSS. Some lower fps at moments of high demand means nothing when the game runs at much higher resolutions, better RTGI, many more effects, texture quality, shadows, etc., etc...

PS5 Pro version have almost no visual upgrades and sometimes run worse than Series X……

The PS5 Pro is operating at a higher resolution than the XSX according to its specs. Therefore, it is being used correctly and not different from how other Studios (including several of SONY itself). It's a different matter if you prefer that this extra power be used for things other than resolution, and that's another topic. PSSR?? I don't think at this point there is a need to describe reasons why the Studio probably didn't find it convenient to use and more given the circumstances, technical characteristics, and performance target of the game.
 
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Same. I waited a year to play that game on PS5, with the new features. I think I put about 90 minutes into it before uninstalling and selling my copy.

To this day, I'm triggered by seeing "Low Ammo" on screen when playing games, as that's all I ever saw in Eternal.

Yeap. Doom Eternal and this one looks an entire different game from Doom franchise.

This stupid ideia of 'low ammo, please do finish move' destroyed any dynamic aspect of what make Doom what he is.

Doom 2016 did a better job.
 
That's the real takeaway. It won't get any better as these industry people can go online and find hordes of gamers talking gleefully about PSSR and DLSS. If the reception of these slop scalers wasn't so good, there would be more pressure to just not use them. At this point is anyone even expecting PS6 and XB5 to run at native res and refresh? Just going off the top of my head, were Gamecube and Dreamcast the most recent consoles to actually hit that target?

DLSS quite literally has better image quality than iD Tech's TAA.
you can play any id Tech game at native vs DLSS Quality mode, and DLSS will look sharper and cleaner in motion.

if you want to bitch about image quality you'll have to bitch about any form of TAA. normal TAA is also a "slop scaler".
 
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DLSS quite literally has better image quality than iD Tech's TAA.
you can play any id Tech game at native vs DLSS Quality mode, and DLSS will look sharper and cleaner in motion.

if you want to bitch about image quality you'll have to bitch about any form of TAA. normal TAA is also a "slop scaler".
Agreed about TAA. Still doesn't excuse gamers at large for joyously accepting these 'solutions' with expectant mouths. Trying to play Forza Motorsport last night and despite disabling anything that might be construed as a slop scaler, it's still there in the gameplay. Tough times for people looking for a crisp, well resolved image.
 
Maybe that's a question for you
PS5 is performing light-years better than XSS. Some lower fps at moments of high demand means nothing when the game runs at much higher resolutions, better RTGI, many more effects, texture quality, shadows, etc., etc...
The PS5 Pro is operating at a higher resolution than the XSX according to its specs. Therefore, it is being used correctly and not different from how other Studios (including several of SONY itself). It's a different matter if you prefer that this extra power be used for things other than resolution, and that's another topic.
No it's definitely a question for you. They literally say that Series X is king. And it's DOOM. The thing you'll notice the most is framerate drops.

PS5 vs Series X differences are debatable, it happens occasionally, both machines have their strengths. But there is zero reason for PS5 Pro to have fps drops not seen on Series X. Unless I've missed something there is nothing hardwarewise that's lower than Series X, not a single spec. Everything points to bad optimization or an engine oddly tailored for the Series design somehow.
 
Agreed about TAA. Still doesn't excuse gamers at large for joyously accepting these 'solutions' with expectant mouths. Trying to play Forza Motorsport last night and despite disabling anything that might be construed as a slop scaler, it's still there in the gameplay. Tough times for people looking for a crisp, well resolved image.

yup, they got rid of MSAA and only offer TAA now. many people like it that way sadly.
 
This was rushed on everything.
I don't see how, exactly, not when a 3070 is hitting 60fps at 1440p, Ultra Nightmare, and a 4070 is managing the same but without any upscaling. A Series X using 5 year old hardware in an APU with limited wattage, is managing TDA at 60 fps locked with RTGI, whilst a PS5 Pro is outputting the game at a higher resolution, and is only dropping frames occasionally.

A drop from 60 to 55 fps for a few seconds in two areas doesn't scream, "rushed" to me, nor does an uptick in resolution from 1440p to 1800p as a peak in the Pro's case. That, to me, is iD utilizing the hardware in the best way they could have with this specific game. It might be DOOM, but it's a DOOM game that is utilizing the latest technologies.
 
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