DF - Doom Dark Ages PS5/PRO & Series S/X showdown.
- Thread starter FUBARx89
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DanielG165
Member
Or it's just… RTGI on the scale used in their games, and at 60 fps is simply intensive for an APU to render? The PS5 Pro isn't magic; it doesn't suddenly unlock Nirvana.
kevboard
Member
I really don't understand how people don't get that the Pro is barely more powerful and can't really get huge upgrades in games where devs simply don't want to use PSSR.
the PS5 Pro has a 45% more powerful GPU... that's it. yes it has better RT hardware, but that won't help you if the old Zen 2 CPU holds you back as RT is almost always also gonna increase CPU strain.
what exactly do you guys think they could add to the pro version? because all I see is people saying they didn't do enough, and not a single concrete and realistic upgrade they could add.
who knows if PSSR would increase image quality in this title for example? pure speculation if adding it would benefit the game.
add RT reflections maybe? ok, but what if the CPU is the limiting factor here? having RT reflections means more things off-screen need to be drawn and animated... that's gonna cost you CPU cycles.
the reason Forza Horizon 5 could only add the RT car reflections in quality mode is very likely due to it not hitting 60fps with it on due to a CPU limit for example.
and anything else they could do would probably be such a small addition that you wouldn't even notice it.
when you guys bought a console that has only 45% more GPU power, barely higher CPU clocks, and only a smidge more memory available for games, which is mainly reliant on an ML upscaler to do the heavy lifting, you should all have known what you get yourself into.
not every game is running on old UE4 versions with no TAAU support, that instantly look 4x better thanks to PSSR, like FF7 does.
the PS5 Pro has a 45% more powerful GPU... that's it. yes it has better RT hardware, but that won't help you if the old Zen 2 CPU holds you back as RT is almost always also gonna increase CPU strain.
what exactly do you guys think they could add to the pro version? because all I see is people saying they didn't do enough, and not a single concrete and realistic upgrade they could add.
who knows if PSSR would increase image quality in this title for example? pure speculation if adding it would benefit the game.
add RT reflections maybe? ok, but what if the CPU is the limiting factor here? having RT reflections means more things off-screen need to be drawn and animated... that's gonna cost you CPU cycles.
the reason Forza Horizon 5 could only add the RT car reflections in quality mode is very likely due to it not hitting 60fps with it on due to a CPU limit for example.
and anything else they could do would probably be such a small addition that you wouldn't even notice it.
when you guys bought a console that has only 45% more GPU power, barely higher CPU clocks, and only a smidge more memory available for games, which is mainly reliant on an ML upscaler to do the heavy lifting, you should all have known what you get yourself into.
not every game is running on old UE4 versions with no TAAU support, that instantly look 4x better thanks to PSSR, like FF7 does.
sendit
Member
I would agree. However, AC: Shadows existing negates everything you said.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Dropped the ball? Nah, just a meh Pro upgrade is all. Otherwise it's still top-tier in terms of console tech.
Number of game with RTGI and 60fps on consoles are still on the fingertips and this maintains a rock solid 60fps with RTGI, on SX at least.
With a patch or two, the 2 PS5's should improve and match that as well.
willothedog
Member
kevboard
Member
no it doesn't. not using RT reflections on base PS5 in AC Shadows could have been a decision by the Devs to keep the resolution higher. while only adding RT reflections on the Pro in 30/40fps quality mode. and a 30fps mode is something Doom can't really add.
and PSSR is once again a pretty small upgrade in AC:S specifically, and only even has an effect due to the low internal resolution of freaking 864p in perfomance mode...
Doom runs at a dynamic 1800p, 1440p lowest. AC Shadows doesn't even reach that in its quality mode. do you honestly wanna claim you'd see the difference between dynamic 1800p + TAAU and dynamic 1800p + PSSR? especially since adding PSSR would
AC Shadows has a tiny upgrade, just like nearly any Pro upgrade.
you get really low quality RT reflections at the same resolution (lower in fact if you use PSSR), and that's about it... wow, what an amazing upgrade lol. same res, same framerate, slightly better settings, and said low quality RT reflections.
the biggest upgrade you could claim the Pro version of AC:S has is that it can run the base PS5's 40fps mode at 60fps. a 40% increase in perfomance.
guess what? that's essentially the same (actually smaller) as as the difference in Doom, just that Doom uses that for a better resolution instead of a better framerate because it already targets 60fps anyway.the fact they didn't add RT reflections in performance mode actually fits very well with what I am saying. maybe the RT reflections are only in the 30fps mode due to a CPU limit
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DanielG165
Member
AC: Shadows doesn't really negate anything he said, honestly. Performance mode on Pro for this game is 60 fps with RTGI, and "Quality mode" is 30/40 fps due to RT reflections being active. In no universe would a 30 nor 40 fps mode be acceptable in a game like DOOM. So, in that case, what else could iD have done with a Pro port for TDA? It can't realistically nor reasonably push anything further without performance being hindered severely, and thus an uptick in overall resolution likely was the safest and most intelligent option.
1800p with drops to around 1296p, yet maintaining 60 fps for the most part outside of a few areas, whilst RTGI is active, sounds like a good use of the PS5 Pro to me.
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
Again, the pro has hardware that provides 2-3x faster ray tracing and has the ability to utilise AI upscaling to further increase headroom beyond what it's bigger GPU can already provide.
Bethesda hasn't bothered with any of that to even make a single noticeable graphical setting change between the system and base PS5. Just a simple resolution increase which is barely noticeable and job done.
To think that the XSX/PS5 pro can run this game at 60fps and yet suggest it's the pro's APU that is unable to handle a single increase in graphical settings is an interesting take.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Mark Cernys worst designed console yet. Pssr is not great and almost no games even have improved RT on Pro let alone achieve the fabled "quality mode at 60 fps using pssr". Pssr is very unstable still and will be dropped for FSR4 when that comes out most likely. I have so many questions I'd like to grill Cerny with regarding the Pro.
If Cerny knew that he had to keep the CPU the same for compatibility reasons then why didn't he give us more than 45% on the GPU? Why would he improve RT capabilities if he knew that the weak CPU wouldn't allow devs to take advantage of those RT gains? Why say the Pro eliminates having to choose quality or performance mode when that was BS?
And at $700 + $100 for a disc drive Sony charged enough they shouldn't have had to be so conservative with specs. Why wasn't PSSR properly trained and iterated on so it was ready to handle UE5 and RT better? Instead of the noise and artifact ridden examples we have?
Why is Sony so lax and without standards for games in securing the coveted "Pro Enhanced" tag? Despite the weak specs, devs should still be able to get more out of games like Indiana Jones and Doom on Pro ...
I don't buy that Pro couldn't handle RT reflections for instance in Doom...or something better than Low setting of Rtgi in Indiana Jones! But Sony doesn't care about Pro owners instead they would rather enable devs to release weak ports under the guise of "Pro enhanced" because its purely about making money with Microsoft now. They know people will act like these games are good on Pro even when they're not. 3 games from MS in the last several weeks that amounted to higher dynamic resolution and nothing else. Oblivion, Doom, and Indiana Jones. So they were developed using the Pro's sdk and that makes it alright to simply have higher DRS range? I don't think so!
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
They didn't bother to use pssr for starters which is the main idea behind achieving higher settings at 60 fps by dropping the internal resolution. When so many 3rd parties have at least attempted to use pssr (results admittedly haven't been great), but its a fact that if Indiana Jones and Doom had used pssr they would gain headroom to increase RT settings at least ...
kevboard
Member
it has the same mediocre Laptop grade Zen2 CPU, which can absolutely be a limiting factor for RT, as can the barely increased available memory, especially for RT reflections as they basically necessitate rendering stuff off-screen in the distance that could be culled otherwise.
any settings increase that would be possible would also have been just a small improvement that would barely be noticeable
even on PC the higher settings look barely different from the lowest. it's only some minor details that change.
running at a dynamic 1800p instead of dynamic 1440p is a pretty big boost if you ask me, even if the average resolution difference isn't as massive as the upper bounds allow.
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Sebastian1295
Member
This game dosen't look good enough to justify the poor performance and resolutions here. Id software failed hard on this game and this is a blemish on there record. I also wish they'd stop spamming doom and make something else, because this game barely resembles what doom used to be at this point and this could've just been a brand new IP.
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Fess
Member
Yeah it's not the best purchase so far. As usual I just got caught up in the hype, paid $1150 in total with the discdrive in my inflation and tax infested country.
But whatever. It is what it is. I think I'll be more satisfied when their 1st party studios wake up and start releasing games. Ghost 2 should be nice.
The Pro is genuinely silent at least, that's an upgrade I can feel for real. My launch PS5 had a constant annoying high pitched vvvrrrrrrrrrrrr
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
People really think they bought something high end, but I wonder if they actually bought a slightly improved product with a bigger profit margin.
Ironman_Bad
Member
Sweet dont really have time for this right now with backlog and switch 2 soon hopefully they have a proper pro upgrade when I get around to it 
Duchess
Member
That MS isn't taking advantage of the PS5 Pro comes as no surprise. When they bought a load of studios at the start of this gen, one of their first moves was to bin off the PS5 native versions of the games in development, and to tell PS5 owners to just play the PS4 version in BC mode.
ElFenomeno
Member
Glad I stuck with the base PS5. Best value for your buck.
DAHGAMING
Kentucky Fried Controller
Still staying the fool, I see.
Fool me once, shame on them, fool me twice, shame on me.
Mate you wouldnt know how much shame Xbox has against me, the fooling has got out of controll and I cant stop.
Why did they concentrate on mentioning it's software based and not on the fact that in one of these the mountain is a low res blur and there is severe aliasing on the ribs?industry leading graphics right here...
No, it isn't???. And you have games where there is no PSSR or using PSSR clearly comes at a cost to performance despite the native resolution cutoff.
AC: Shadow, for example, that also uses RTGI, and where PSSR is an optional mode for that reason, despite being offered in a patch after launch and with the help of Sony's own engineers.
Each game is different, and so are the circumstances. In Doom (and Indiana Jones), the target is the most stable 60fps possible, RTGI. The next best thing to that, and the only thing that could mean a visual jump, is PT, and Pro clearly doesn't play in that league.
In FH 5, for example, you notice the improvement more because of the larger space. On XSX, FH5 already runs at a perfect 4K and 60fps in performance mode. In Pro, therefore, you have an extra 15-20fps to use to increase the amount of vegetation, which is a very visible and apparent visual aspect.
You might think that more work was done in PRO with the FH5 port than in the Doom DA adaptation... and yet, the opposite is true. Each game's circumstances are simply different.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It's only Microsoft limited
Fess
Member
Okay but it's not unlikely that Series X and S were lead platforms and MS chose to not put in enough resources in time to optimize the PS versions to the same level as the Xbox versions. It's bad however you look at it from a multiplat publisher perspective. They need to do better. DF say that PS5 even drop lower in fps than Series S at times.
Team Andromeda
Member
Game looks fabulous my Series X is all ready for it
Oh so the fault is the pro hardware specs, we can finally relieve now that we know they put all the best effort they can, people is really so malicious.
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Make to you a favour sell your ps5 pro and buy a good pc. Anyway it's not like Sony hide to you the specs of the ps5 pro before the launch.
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balls of snow
Member
whats good is pssr if devs cant be bothered to use it.Bought on steam.
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Orbital2060
Member
Game looks fabulous my Series X is all ready for it
Gen.Grievous
Member
What a load or rubbish and I don't even own a console. Much more powerful GPU not even counting RT, better CPU, more bandwidth and more memory but somehow less stable performance than a Series X. That's just amateur hour development.
If I buy a 5080 I expect better performance than a 5070 when a game is not even CPU limited.
DJ12
Member
Vrs needs to die, I'm sure now the ps5 pro supports hardware VRS everyone can now agree it's dogshite.VRS on Xbox Series X sometimes looks like it's broken up.
From the DF video, Doom Eternal looks sharper and of higher quality than the jagged Dark Age.
Having said that, the software VRS on base ps5 looks better than hardware vrs on the Series X.
Markio128
Member
Poor PS5 Pro version aside, this game isn't doing anything for me tbh. I didn't enjoy the last Doom game either - fucking jumping and dashing around, figuring out where to go whilst trying to ambidextrously pull the eye out of a Cacodemon.
They seem to be moving further and further away from the pure and simple joy that was Doom.
They seem to be moving further and further away from the pure and simple joy that was Doom.
ShadowkillXNA
Member
ShadowkillXNA
Member
He's correct. You're missing the point. There are other games out there that clearly show advantages of the updated hardware.
Including some from microsoft owned studios.
rickybooby87
Member
Interesting.. ElAnalistaDeBits seems to think all versions except XSS are upscaling to 4K.
Physiognomonics
Member
It's not broken. It's working as intended, at quarter resolution. There is not way to get around it (get rid of the quarter resolution blocks), if there was after 5 years those developers would have found a way around it.VRS on Xbox Series X sometimes looks like it's broken up.
From the DF video, Doom Eternal looks sharper and of higher quality than the jagged Dark Age.
This is why COD developers (and most others developers) don't use it, because it's a bad tech and they use their own custom software VRS.
Fortress of Regrets
Member
All the console versions look crusty. VRS should be banned, it's a crime against image quality.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Game looks fabulous my Series X is all ready for it
Yo that wrap looks dope as fuck.
I might snag one too.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Nah, the feature works. VRS is applied on certain elements only.
Despite it, the overall screen clarity is notably sharper on Xbox.
And it helps retain performance, the PS5 is running ~10 fps behind Series X in the same combat areas.
ResilientBanana
Member
Could be a patch thing.Nah, the feature works. VRS is applied on certain elements only.
Despite it, the overall screen clarity is notably sharper on Xbox.
And it helps retain performance, the PS5 is running ~10 fps behind Series X in the same combat areas.
You think VRS give 10 fps of advantage? It's extremely unlikely. Especially because fps drops in combat in theory are cpu tied. Seems just they rushed the ps5 port to me especially considered ps5 pro has the same strange drops.Nah, the feature works. VRS is applied on certain elements only.
Despite it, the overall screen clarity is notably sharper on Xbox.
And it helps retain performance, the PS5 is running ~10 fps behind Series X in the same combat areas.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The whole 10fps? no, but it definitely helps.
When The Coalition shifter Gears 5 / Tactics to Tier-2 VRS, it helped retain 14% GPU performance with imperceptible visual changes.
That 14% is then helping out the GPU with higher DRS or eliminating GPU bottleneck related drops, among other things.
The 14% is used to rise the resolution nothing else. Fps drops in combat are related to the cpu usage. Which make me think they haven't optimized well the variables frequency usage.
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I don't know if that's what's happening (probably), but it would be funny to "complain" about that situation when PS5 is usually the Studios' base platform for the vast majority of the time and the rest of the versions are the ones that adapt to that circumstance...
Nah, the feature works. VRS is applied on certain elements only.
Despite it, the overall screen clarity is notably sharper on Xbox.
And it helps retain performance, the PS5 is running ~10 fps behind Series X in the same combat areas.
You know it and they know it too....
Where do you heard this bullshit? Guess it's the typical excuse of some egos to accept sometimes ps5 overtake the series X.
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