Support NeoGAF

[Riggs]

I love Diablo 3. Let me just say that.

I just hit inferno, I am critting for 100K, and feel great. I die non stop against champions and have no hope of getting past Act I without better gear. I am fine with that.

I need to go back to hell and farm items, I am fine with that.

What I am not fine with, is the fact that I could just hop into the AH and buy my way to success. It really just seems fucked, I am glad at least some folks enjoy it.

The entire point of Diablo to me, is to kill stuff and hope something great drops. It's so ironic that an AH is introduced, and a RMAH to boot, into a game where the main thrill is to see what drops next. When you can just go into the AH and buy that uber item instead, it really makes me think about my future with this game. I don't know what I am going to do yet, but I am definitely not happy.

Look at Yoshi this dude did over 200 Inferno Butcher runs with 5NV stack and found shit for upgrades. Farmed treasure goblins for an unhealthy amount of time also I may add. What the fuck was the point of him doing that?

Why should he? He could of just stacked up gold find, in the amount of time he spent farming NPC's he could of made millions. And that is probably an under statement, I am sure much more. I use him as an example because I know his story, and I know the hours he spent doing these things.

I guess I am just upset, it feels like I need to go farm gold and go into the AH to be the most efficient. I DON'T MIND PEOPLE DOING THIS. But when it is the most efficient way to do things, and when I say efficient I mean way way way more fucking efficient then farming NPC's for loot. If there was some semblance of balance between buying shit from the AH and farming NPC's I wouldn't be posting this. But when you spend 200+ hours farming butcher with 5NV stacks and get nothing, VS farming gold with a 100% chance on your returns in the AH, something is just wrong. Blizzard should at least make the two comparable. Right now they are leagues away from each other in what is more time efficient.

Again I do not want to beat Inferno in 5 days, I don't mind farming, I LIKE IT!!!!!! But it's just sad how much power is in the AH right now IMO.

TL,DR. I like cake.

 

[mr2xxx]

For the offhand voodo dolls/mojo can you search for specific damage range because I'm not seeing it and if so it is a big oversight.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Again I do not want to beat Inferno in 5 days, I don't mind farming, I LIKE IT!!!!!! But it's just sad how much power is in the AH right now IMO.

Probably a mistake that the gear for inferno act 2 doesn't actually drop in inferno act 2. We've been doing butcher runs for a week. Not many upgrades but usually end up with a piece or two that can be sold on the auction house.

 

[Sophia]

Fuck this game and it's randomly deciding not to sell me Runic Potions bullshit. 9000 HP isn't even a lot, yet the vender suddenly decide to sell only the 6500 pots?

 

[Tideas]

I love Diablo 3. Let me just say that.

I just hit inferno, I am critting for 100K, and feel great. I die non stop against champions and have no hope of getting past Act I without better gear. I am fine with that.

I need to go back to hell and farm items, I am fine with that.

What I am not fine with, is the fact that I could just hop into the AH and buy my way to success. It really just seems fucked, I am glad at least some folks enjoy it.

The entire point of Diablo to me, is to kill stuff and hope something great drops. It's so ironic that an AH is introduced, and a RMAH to boot, into a game where the main thrill is to see what drops next. When you can just go into the AH and buy that uber item instead, it really makes me think about my future with this game. I don't know what I am going to do yet, but I am definitely not happy.

Look at Yoshi this dude did over 200 Inferno Butcher runs with 5NV stack and found shit for upgrades. Farmed treasure goblins for an unhealthy amount of time also I may add. What the fuck was the point of him doing that?

Why should he? He could of just stacked up gold find, in the amount of time he spent farming NPC's he could of made millions. And that is probably an under statement, I am sure much more. I use him as an example because I know his story, and I know the hours he spent doing these things.

I guess I am just upset, it feels like I need to go farm gold and go into the AH to be the most efficient. I DON'T MIND PEOPLE DOING THIS. But when it is the most efficient way to do things, and when I say efficient I mean way way way more fucking efficient then farming NPC's for loot. If there was some semblance of balance between buying shit from the AH and farming NPC's I wouldn't be posting this. But when you spend 200+ hours farming butcher with 5NV stacks and get nothing, VS farming gold with a 100% chance on your returns in the AH, something is just wrong. Blizzard should at least make the two comparable. Right now they are leagues away from each other in what is more time efficient.

Again I do not want to beat Inferno in 5 days, I don't mind farming, I LIKE IT!!!!!! But it's just sad how much power is in the AH right now IMO.

TL,DR. I like cake.

how would you fix it? get rid of the AH? and go bavck to the way D2 was? If u wanna trade, you trade through chat lobbies?

 

[Macmanus]

Do more elites and uniques spawn the more people are in a game?

 

[Wallach]

I just added 3 gems to add Dex to get 102 Dex on it. Checked the AH and the prices range from 1.8 mill.-5 mill for something similiar. I'll hold on to it for now and wait see how the RMAH goes.

Yeah I think an easy sell right now would be like 1.5 million. It's a good piece.

 

[LordCanti]

Fuck this game and it's randomly deciding not to sell me Runic Potions bullshit. 9000 HP isn't even a lot, yet the vender suddenly decide to sell only the 6500 pots?

I should sell my potions. Since getting into Inferno (where I get one hit) I haven't used any.

I feel your pain though. That happened to me quite a few times on the way to 60.

 

[Yoshichan]

Hey Riggs, I know it's only been like half a day since we last spoke but I'm glad to hear you're fine :3 The (awesome, but slightly aggravated) attitude you had when you entered inferno was an experience ♥

I completely agree with everything you said and we're not the only ones who share the same thoughts about this. I've had multiple discussions about end-game D3 (and mind you, these are people who played D2 for a ridiculous amount) and most of them seem to all agree with each other that it's becoming the Game of Auctions. A game where you're the most powerful person if you have the money - this also means that if you hit the jackpot and find a legendary worth 20 million, that's game. Your character will be pimped like no tomorrow - no amount of Butcher runs will ever grant you that many upgrades for your character.

how would you fix it? get rid of the AH? and go bavck to the way D2 was? If u wanna trade, you trade through chat lobbies?

I wouldn't personally know how to fix this. It's a big, big issue and it's probably never going to be fixed. Blizzard wanted gold to become really important currency in D3, and they succeeded with that. They made it too powerful though.

 

[j-wood]

I think the reason people have a problem with the auction house and because of how useless gold was in d2.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with the auction house. It's the same principal as trading items in d2 except easier

The major difference is that now gold is used to buy them instead of items and gold is easily available to find.

Blizzard could decrease the amount of gold dropped meaning that selling items becomes the easiest way to gain money. But then no one would hAve enough money to buy it so Idk.

Of course they could also just increase the drop rate

 

[SuperAwesome]

I'm kind of in a hole right now--my monk is level 60 and I honestly can't make it past Act I Inferno. I need new items from the AH, but I don't have enough gold. What quest/location in Act IV hell would help me farm items worth selling on the AH?

 

[Volodja]

Can you tell us what item it was when you decide to identify it :3?

Promise of Glory
Level 58 Legendary Bracers

+116 Int
+32 Cold Resis
+172 Armor
+14% Extra Gold
+12% MF
+3% Critical Hit Chance

The resist and the armor are the random properties.
The stat roll was pretty bad and if it was Dex and it had Poison Resist instead of Cold, I would use it.

 

[Deadly]

:lol I was kidding, some people prefer Alcarnus WP but I hate that place (terrible angle to fight on and way too many enemies imo). The Ancient Path is so much better imo, you walk to the right a bit, then up a small cliff, then reset if he's not there. Sometime you get to fight a champion, but you've got plenty of room to kite. I like it a lot more, and the angle (you're at the bottom, enemies are at the top) is much more superior for me as a caster!

edit: I can also say that the treasure goblin in Ancient Path WP is like 1/3 while the goblin in Alcarnus is like... 1/5 for me.

I've been farming the Ancient Path goblin for awhile now. It goes especially well when you've got friends farming it as well as when one finds one you just join on their game. But I have to say the loot hasn't been THAT extraordinary. Sure we get lotsa rares but they aren't that great. The act4 ghost method definitely has a nicer chance of dropping blue weapons.

But at least the goblin method makes it more interactive since you actually end up with your friends because ghost farming just gets reaaaalllyyy boring after awhile.

 

[powersurge]

I'm kind of in a hole right now--my monk is level 60 and I honestly can't make it past Act I Inferno. I need new items from the AH, but I don't have enough gold. What quest/location in Act IV hell would help me farm items worth selling on the AH?

I'm in the same spot with my Barbarian. I'm wondering if it would be worth it to unlock the hell version of the "secret level" to farm.

 

[Corran Horn]

Mmmm stacking more all resist and getting a 1hand weapon with life on hit made my barbarian life alot easier. Beat Act 1 already but now I can farm act 1 final bosses so much easier.

Sad I dont have like 16k+ dps anymore though...but I can survive against elites for more than a few seconds lol.

 

[Dahbomb]

If they increase drop rates especially on good items, then it marginalizes the AH (why bother with the Ah when you can just find the item yourself for free?). It's a very delicate balance and Blizzard definitely wants the player coming back to the AH to acquire the best of the best gear.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Hey Riggs, I know it's only been like half a day since we last spoke but I'm glad to hear you're fine :3 The (awesome, but slightly aggravated) attitude you had when you entered inferno was an experience ♥

I completely agree with everything you said and we're not the only ones who share the same thoughts about this. I've had multiple discussions about end-game D3 (and mind you, these are people who played D2 for a ridiculous amount) and most of them seem to all agree with each other that it's becoming the Game of Auctions. A game where you're the most powerful person if you have the money - this also means that if you hit the jackpot and find a legendary worth 20 million, that's game. Your character will be pimped like no tomorrow - no amount of Butcher runs will ever grant you that many upgrades for your character.

I wouldn't personally know how to fix this. It's a big, big issue and it's probably never going to be fixed. Blizzard wanted gold to become really important currency in D3, and they succeeded with that. They made it too powerful though.

The issue of the Auction House is perhaps more noticeable to me in Diablo III than in the many MMOs that feature similar systems because first, Diablo is not an MMO, and second, few games I’ve ever played relay a sense of evolving personal power as effectively as Diablo III. Anything that upsets that progression stands out like a severed thumb. The designs of weapons, armor and individual potions, the detail in larger stacks of gold, the artisans’ carts, the designs of your AI-controlled followers’ gear – with extended play, elements not only becomes more significant statistically, but in appearance as well. With the exception of a number of reused item models, form and power rise alongside each other evenly on an incredible scale, starting from the lowly rags and leather of Normal into the fearsome spiky plate armor found in the depths of Inferno. It’s easy to dismiss statistical increases as you swap in new gear in other action-RPGs as trivial, but in Diablo III the changes are often easily noticeable, in the numbers that pop from enemy heads to the rapidity with which a once seemingly invincible foe is obliterated by the might of high-end gear. The occasional trip back to Normal from Hell to one-shot demons who used to instill fear is worthwhile simply to feel how far you’ve progressed.

As soon as Diablo III loses its forward momentum and starts to feel like an endless farming field I doubt I’ll continue to log in. I know the moment will arrive, eventually, but I’m not quite ready for it yet. The apparent necessity of the Auction House in Inferno was, hopefully, merely a one-time thing, and the rest of my journey can progress without a need to pay virtual currency to avoid the slog of excessive farming or spending a fortune to spin the reels of the blacksmith slot machine. With Nephalem Valor to aid me and, ideally, a stream of item upgrades and additional elite monster behaviors from Blizzard in the months to come, I’m hopeful the gameplay will stay interesting enough to keep me hooked and searching for the next best item and, more importantly, let me feel like I earned my power. If I fail to kill an enemy, I can accept it’s because I lack the required skill, but am uncomfortable with the idea that it’s because my virtual wallet simply isn’t big enough.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/05/30/diablo-iii-inferno-and-the-auction-house

just about everyone has said the same thing at some point. that's what it comes down to. not sure anyone is particularly satisfied with it, but what can we do about it? they're working on tweaks. maybe they'll help, maybe not. their end-game is the RMAH, so they'll do what's in the best interests of making the RMAH successful. for good or for bad.

 

[LordCanti]

If they increase drop rates especially on good items, then it marginalizes the AH (why bother with the Ah when you can just find the item yourself for free?). It's a very delicate balance and Blizzard definitely wants the player coming back to the AH to acquire the best of the best gear.

They need to buff certain skills so that there aren't only one or two inferno viable builds. Everyone is after the same gear, which drives prices on some stuff to insane heights and other stuff to insane lows.

 

[butts]

NOT using the AH at all is my version of hardcore in this game. I feel accomplished that I solo'd Hell Diablo last night with my barbarian with a 5k dps battersmash I crafted and 27k health.

I think people need to calm down about the difficulty a bit, it's only been 2 weeks. You should go back to D2 as a barbarian and try to solo hell untwinked; it's pretty rough too.

 

[Riggs]

Probably a mistake that the gear for inferno act 2 doesn't actually drop in inferno act 2. We've been doing butcher runs for a week. Not many upgrades but usually end up with a piece or two that can be sold on the auction house.

Lol well good luck man at least you made it that far, impressive!

how would you fix it? get rid of the AH? and go bavck to the way D2 was? If u wanna trade, you trade through chat lobbies?

I hate to make an arguement with no reasonable solution. But I really don't have one. It's such a big thing to address. I am not sure there is a fix. Just felt like I had to get all that off my chest. I am sure I will find a way to enjoy the game some how. It is such a great game, I don't want to stop playing!

Hey Riggs, I know it's only been like half a day since we last spoke but I'm glad to hear you're fine :3 The (awesome, but slightly aggravated) attitude you had when you entered inferno was an experience ♥

I completely agree with everything you said and we're not the only ones who share the same thoughts about this. I've had multiple discussions about end-game D3 (and mind you, these are people who played D2 for a ridiculous amount) and most of them seem to all agree with each other that it's becoming the Game of Auctions. A game where you're the most powerful person if you have the money - this also means that if you hit the jackpot and find a legendary worth 20 million, that's game. Your character will be pimped like no tomorrow - no amount of Butcher runs will ever grant you that many upgrades for your character.

I wouldn't personally know how to fix this. It's a big, big issue and it's probably never going to be fixed. Blizzard wanted gold to become really important currency in D3, and they succeeded with that. They made it too powerful though.

Hah no one is supposed to know about my closet rage issues man.

I think the reason people have a problem with the auction house and because of how useless gold was in d2.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with the auction house. It's the same principal as trading items in d2 except easier

The major difference is that now gold is used to buy them instead of items and gold is easily available to find.

Blizzard could decrease the amount of gold dropped meaning that selling items becomes the easiest way to gain money. But then no one would hAve enough money to buy it so Idk.

Of course they could also just increase the drop rate

Very good post , thanks. I think that is a good response, because gold was really worthless in D2 compared to D3. I guess it will take getting some used to. I just called my buddy and told him how I feel (I make it sound so dramatic eh?). He is a major defender of anything blizzard but suprisingly he fully agreed with me. He said you know what? I don't give a fuck how long it takes, I am farming my items and not buying from the AH I don't give a shit. His words .... his point was he does not care if it takes him 5 months to get the items, he will play the game his way. I think that helped me realize there is no time table to be equipped properly and get through inferno, it's half the fun slowly progressing.

Thanks for all the responses so far.

Btw wish I had good photoshop skills.

I would take Game of Thrones logo and change it to this.

"You don't play the Game of Auctions, you either sell, or you die."

 

[shintoki]

Question. Should I just pick up a Blue Weapon for my Mage like for 500k which 1200 damage, or something like that? Or should I get something with less damage, around 900-1000, but with more stats?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

NOT using the AH at all is my version of hardcore in this game. I feel accomplished that I solo'd Hell Diablo last night with my barbarian with a 5k dps battersmash I crafted and 27k health.

I think people need to calm down about the difficulty a bit, it's only been 2 weeks. You should go back to D2 as a barbarian and try to solo hell untwinked; it's pretty rough too.

even without the AH, there would still be trading, that was in D2 as well. unless you're advocating not trading either.

 

[Yoshichan]

Question. Should I just pick up a Blue Weapon for my Mage like for 500k which 1200 damage, or something like that? Or should I get something with less damage, around 900-1000, but with more stats?

Completely depends on the skills you're using!

 

[Riggs]

NOT using the AH at all is my version of hardcore in this game. I feel accomplished that I solo'd Hell Diablo last night with my barbarian with a 5k dps battersmash I crafted and 27k health.

I think people need to calm down about the difficulty a bit, it's only been 2 weeks. You should go back to D2 as a barbarian and try to solo hell untwinked; it's pretty rough too.

Yeah man that is the undercore way! Real D3 undercore never use AH!! I am just kidding btw to those using the AH. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Lost Fragment]

So are boots the only items that naturally roll with movement speed boosts?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Question. Should I just pick up a Blue Weapon for my Mage like for 500k which 1200 damage, or something like that? Or should I get something with less damage, around 900-1000, but with more stats?

Probably the higher damage one, honestly.

I mean, that damage is modified by +1000% or more percent depending on how your primary stat is. Small gains in base damage result in massive damage upgrades. If you're using a lot of abilities that do x% of weapon damage, then those all get a lot more powerful, too, with higher base damage weapons.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Blizzard could decrease the amount of gold dropped meaning that selling items becomes the easiest way to gain money. But then no one would hAve enough money to buy it so Idk.

Of course they could also just increase the drop rate

nope. decreasing the availability of gold would simply cause deflation in the market. everything would be over-priced suddenly and every auction would expire...only to be reposted at new, much lower prices.

the only way to diminish the value of gold would be to fundamentally alter how the AH works, allowing you to trade something other than gold for items as payment...

...or by drastically reducing the number of quality items being dropped. Neither would make people happy.

 

[Dahbomb]

They need to buff certain skills so that there aren't only one or two inferno viable builds. Everyone is after the same gear, which drives prices on some stuff to insane heights and other stuff to insane lows.

It goes without saying that they should always be striving for balance and a diversely viable build set for Inferno.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

So how are Demon Hunters in Act 2 of Inferno not dying in 1 hit from just about everything?

 

[cpp_is_king]

I dont' have a problem with the Auction House, I have a problem with how it's basically impossible to get gear that you can progress with at your current level of progression.

 

[Alex]

I don't really see the difference at all from Diablo II outside of semantics and convenience. I prefer this setup for sure, though, I just wish itemization was a little tighter and you could roll addons/mods for the AH.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I dont' have a problem with the Auction House, I have a problem with how it's basically impossible to get gear that you can progress with at your current level of progression.

oh you can. it just depends on how many hours and runs you're willing to put in to get those drops. an hour? a day? a week? a month? it could take that long. the question is whether you're willing to spend that kind of time rolling dice and hoping for the best.

if all of your fun is derived purely from treasure grinding for months and not using the AH or trading, that's the approach for you. For the rest of us who like it enough, but like to play other games and want to play them too, trading and the AH will help you be more relevant sooner.

 

[LordCanti]

So how are Demon Hunters in Act 2 of Inferno not dying in 1 hit from just about everything?

They aren't, honestly. If you're getting hit at all as a DH, you're in for some problems in Act 2 and beyond.

 

[butts]

even without the AH, there would still be trading, that was in D2 as well. unless you're advocating not trading either.

Trading in D2 had its own issues with the rampant duping, but to me the new auction house seems a bit too easy, which in theory is good design but takes too much of the game away. I was always self-found in D2 so my opinion is definitely not normal. I do however prefer the trading system in D2 as it didn't make trading for what you wanted so trivial.

 

[blame space]

i can't beat diablo. i just died like four times.

 

[Yoshichan]

i can't beat diablo. i just died like four times.

Four times? Come on man, progression doesn't work like that!

 

[Lost Fragment]

I don't really see the difference at all from Diablo II outside of semantics and convenience. I prefer this setup for sure, though, I just wish itemization was a little tighter and you could roll addons/mods for the AH.

It's largely the same in a lot of ways, but it's easier enough to buy/sell that it does change things.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

They aren't, honestly. If you're getting hit at all as a DH, you're in for some problems in Act 2 and beyond.

I died like 7 times just getting to the part with the footprints in the beginning.

Shits ridiculous. I could change equipment to focus on resistance but a DH without really high DPS is worthless. Opiate made this sound easy, where he be at.

 

[Riggs]

blame space you must progresss!!!!!

Wtf just found this

Think Stain'd are D3 fans?

 

[Sophia]

Cute blizzard. Molten Plagued Shielding RANGED Mobs as a Barbarian. Real fucking cute. No way in hell would I ever play a Hardcore Barbarian with combinations like that wandering around.

And I still can't buy the right potions.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Cute blizzard. Molten Plagued Shielding RANGED Mobs as a Barbarian. Real fucking cute.

And I still can't buy the right potions.

Yeah... it's random.

I don't get why people rage about ability combinations in rares.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I died like 7 times just getting to the part with the footprints in the beginning.

Shits ridiculous. I could change equipment to focus on resistance but a DH without really high DPS is worthless. Opiate made this sound easy, where he be at.

welcome to the Act II world of fuck. I'm just happy that I can farm it fairly well now. haven't tried beating the final boss yet, but I think I'll fair better than a few days ago when I was getting my shit pushed in.

Trading in D2 had its own issues with the rampant duping, but to me the new auction house seems a bit too easy, which in theory is good design but takes too much of the game away. I was always self-found in D2 so my opinion is definitely not normal. I do however prefer the trading system in D2 as it didn't make trading for what you wanted so trivial.

I hear you about it being a little tougher to trade in D2...but then I see websites like d2jsp.org and I start to think it wasn't all that hard at all for those dedicated enough to continue playing the game for years.

I do agree that it is decidedly more convenient to have a centralized place and universal currency. Certainly not having to use back-channels to make life easier is a big deal...but it was going to happen one way or the other. If not for the AH, we'd have an adequate trading thread going right here at GAF. :0)

But I also agree that there's a balance missing. It shouldn't take 500 hours to get *adequate* gear drops for your hero class. It just fucking shouldn't. For great legendaries and set items, sure. But yellows and blues are about 85% shit, and 12% good...for other classes.

 

[Lyonaz]

Finally got my new PC and got the chance to play Diablo 3, my Witch Doctor is a total pimp. I can also finally unbox my Starcraft 2 CE. Good times ahead and no work for 2 weeks, a well deserved vacation.

 

[Sophia]

Yeah... it's random.

I don't get why people rage about ability combinations in rares.

Because it's stupid combination that exist for no purpose other than to hinder Barbarians and no other class?

And now the vender isn't offering any potions at all.

yeah he should just restart the game, it's part of the inferno experience. Tons o' fun.

Sophia was slain by a Blood Clan Spearman.

And it's not even Inferno; Just Hell. Which makes it all that more infuriating that it's not actually that difficult, merely annoying. >.<;

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Yeah... it's random.

I don't get why people rage about ability combinations in rares.

yeah he should just restart the game, it's part of the inferno experience. Tons o' fun.

 

[Rufus]

I don't get why people rage about ability combinations in rares.

Huh? There are some bullshit combinations that are nigh impossible to beat.

 

[Macattk15]

Cute blizzard. Molten Plagued Shielding RANGED Mobs as a Barbarian. Real fucking cute. No way in hell would I ever play a Hardcore Barbarian with combinations like that wandering around.

And I still can't buy the right potions.

Oh yeah? What about in Act 3 Inferno what I'm currently come up against / trying to get around.

Molten Mortar Invulnerable Minions Frozen .... Demonic Tremors (The guys who shield up and mini enrage) ....

Yeah. FUCKING THANKS BLIZZARD.

 

[Sophia]

Oh yeah? What about in Act 3 Inferno what I'm currently come up against / trying to get around.

Molten Mortar Invulnerable Minions Frozen .... Demonic Tremors (The guys who shield up and mini enrage) ....

Yeah. FUCKING THANKS BLIZZARD.

Well, at least it's not the enemies that get plague naturally. Then you'd really be having fun!

 

[JustProgress]

Goobies halp.

I'm close to shelving the game until an Inferno balance patch comes, my spirit is breaking. I only have 1.1 mil gold and I feel like the barrier to entry is way above that.

I'm a monk with 488 Resists with One of Everything, 30k health, and 14k DPS using a 2H. Any tips I'd love to hear them. I can beat Act 1 Inferno but most elite backs take crazy kiting and sometimes multiple deaths to kill.

What stats should I prioritize? I have another set of armor that gives 16k DPS, 44k health, but only around 180 resists.

Halp.

 

[DTKT]

SOUL RIPPERS.

The fuck is this.