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[aliencowz7]

Mostly to increase the longevity of the game, I imagine -- although everyone agrees that the difficulty spikes are a bad thing, even if the difficulty level is debatable.

I think this is a poor choice for the long term health of the game, but the AH is likely to maintain an important sustaining tool, and PvP has yet to launch, so we'll see. As already stated, it is traders and PvPers which sustained D2 through most of its lifetime.

I don't think it will have any effect whatsoever on the long term health of the game as the main point in diablo games is to farm items post beating the hardest difficulty for a sense of increasing power for your character.

Currently that feel is completely absent, instead of feeling like your gear is making you into a demon killing badass, it feels like your gear upgrades are simply making it so you are able to progress to the end of the game while still getting your ass beat. That certainly isn't what diablo means to me.

What I didn't love about d2 was getting 1 shot in hell because I hadn't yet maxed out my resists. What I did love was mowing down demons with friends and hunting for items to get more powerful.

 

[Cru Jones]

man... it got delayed another hour...

 

[Cipherr]

Does monster damage even scale in normal through hell?

Yes but at a lower rate.

          Normal          Nightmare          Hell            Inferno
         ===============  ===============  ===============  ===============  
Players    HP    Damage     HP    Damage     HP    Damage     HP    Damage  
   1      100%    100%     100%    100%     100%    100%     100%    100% 
   2      175%    100%     185%    105%     195%    110%     210%    115% 
   3      250%    100%     270%    110%     290%    120%     320%    130%
   4      325%    100%     355%    115%     385%    130%     430%    145%

I understand that 145% was extreme. But I think something like 105% at 4 players for damage would have been workable.

 

[Anustart]

http://www.clicktoloot.com/p/combat.html#multiplayer scaling

Thanks! For some reason I thought it only took effect in inferno!

 

[DopeyFish]

To be honest, those stats should be decimating Act 1 Inferno; my Monk had pretty much no trouble with it with far less.



Watching them die is hilarious. Because I'm a terrible person.

Should be, but I'm not... My character just fades like a useless brute... Basically have to use extreme tactics just to survive...

 

[Shouta]

Yea it sounds like a good change for inferno so you can actually play in a group. I really just mean the easier difficulties. My friend and I are playing through 2 player coop (Monk & WD), just about to finish nightmare, and we already spam fest, face roll everything... I was looking forward to hell because I figured it might actually be challenging... I think the damage output for mobs in normal, nightmare, and hell should stay the same.

Ah yes, my bad. I think Normal/Nightmare is pretty easy myself but Hell is a little rough. If you aren't using the AH then it's a helluva ride still even with the removal of the damage multipliers for co-op.

Though, I recall someone saying that the co-op modifiers for Normal through Hell aren't as strong as the ones for Inferno anyway.

 

[Petrie]

man... it got delayed another hour...

This was obviously going to happen. Do not expect it back up until 5pm EST.

 

[LordCanti]

It's 11am PDT isn't it? Y u no work gaem?

Edit: Oh delayed again. Damn.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Yes but at a lower rate.

          Normal          Nightmare          Hell            Inferno
         ===============  ===============  ===============  ===============  
Players    HP    Damage     HP    Damage     HP    Damage     HP    Damage  
   1      100%    100%     100%    100%     100%    100%     100%    100% 
   2      175%    100%     185%    105%     195%    110%     210%    115% 
   3      250%    100%     270%    110%     290%    120%     320%    130%
   4      325%    100%     355%    115%     385%    130%     430%    145%

I understand that 145% was extreme. But I think something like 105% at 4 players for damage would have been workable.

I'm fine with the damage not scaling / scaling only a very little bit, but making HP not scale? That just seems weird. Everything will just get melted now with 4 people.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Should be, but I'm not... My character just fades like a useless brute... Basically have to use extreme tactics just to survive...

What is your resists?

Might be your spec.

 

[Cipherr]

I'm fine with the damage not scaling / scaling only a very little bit, but making HP not scale? That just seems weird. Everything will just get melted now with 4 people.

I still need to see where they said HP won't scale... As far as I read, they are removing damage scaling, but HP scaling will remain.

 

[Opiate]

I don't think it will have any effect whatsoever on the long term health of the game as the main point in diablo games is to farm items post beating the hardest difficulty for a sense of increasing power for your character.

Currently that feel is completely absent, instead of feeling like your gear is making you into a demon killing badass, it feels like your gear upgrades are simply making it so you are able to progress to the end of the game while still getting your ass beat. That certainly isn't what diablo means to me.

What I didn't love about d2 was getting 1 shot in hell because I hadn't yet maxed out my resists. What I did love was mowing down demons with friends and hunting for items to get more powerful.

So difficulty is not something you actually want; what you call being a "badass" I would just call a ridiculously easy game, and it significantly blunts the value of trading. Trading was actually a means of progression up to this point; while I doubt that will be completely obviated, it will certainly be muted.

This is personal preference, obviously, but I'd personally much prefer that acquiring new gear had an actual purpose (i.e. progression), instead of just being something you get so that you can kill Baal even faster than you already could.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

hour delay! what a fucking surprise.

 

[Ketch]

If you aren't using the AH then it's a helluva ride still even with the removal of the damage multipliers for co-op..

Guess it could be a good way for me to save gold.

 

[Shouta]

I'm fine with the damage not scaling / scaling only a very little bit, but making HP not scale? That just seems weird. Everything will just get melted now with 4 people.

Uh, they only said that damage isn't going to scale up, I think.

 

[DopeyFish]

What is your resists?

Might be your spec.

120 on all but lightning (like 96 or something) so that's about a 25% damage resist on everything iirc

 

[Cipherr]

So difficulty is not something you actually want; what you call being a "badass" I would just call a ridiculously easy game, and it significantly blunts the value of trading. Trading was actually a means of progression up to this point; while I doubt that will be completely obviated, it will certainly be muted.

This is personal preference, obviously, but I'd personally much prefer that acquiring new gear had an actual purpose (i.e. progression), instead of just being something you get so that you can kill Baal even faster than you already could.

Agree completely.

 

[scoobs]

Love the changes. Pretty excited about actually clearing act 4 now hopefully

 

[Shouta]

120 on all but lightning (like 96 or something) so that's about a 25% damage resist on everything iirc

You need more resists. Barbs have to reduce the damage a lot especially for Inferno.

 

[inky]

It would be better if they just scheduled the whole fucking day for maintenance. That way they wouldn't have to delay it every hour.

Also, no time frame still on commodities being back up, right? LOL Blizzard.

 

[Zimbardo]

my God Blizzard are annoying with the down time.

first they say it'll be up @ 11 pacific ...now its extended to 12.

i wouldn't be surprised that if i was to login at that time i'd be greeted with another message stating it'll be back in another hour.


fuck.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

So difficulty is not something you actually want; what you call being a "badass" I would just call a ridiculously easy game, and it significantly blunts the value of trading. Trading was actually a means of progression up to this point; while I doubt that will be completely obviated, it will certainly be muted.

This is personal preference, obviously, but I'd personally much prefer that acquiring new gear had an actual purpose (i.e. progression), instead of just being something you get so that you can kill Baal even faster than you already could.

that's why my idea is perfect, is it not? Have a normal difficulty progression for the main game. And then add a separate bonus ultra-inferno mode or some BS like that which is no bones about it balls out difficult for those that want it. Also combine that mode with PvP when it launches and it gives people 2 great reasons to try and continue to progress forward rather than dominating the main game over and over.

 

[LordCanti]

hour delay! what a fucking surprise.

I know that feel. I mowed the lawn, did some banking, got a latte, went grocery shopping, came home, and now I can't play D3.

It would be better if they just scheduled the whole fucking day for maintenance. That way they wouldn't have to delay it every hour.

Also, no time frame still on commodities being back up, right? LOL Blizzard.

They already held off on the RMAH so long that botting could get established. What's another couple of weeks for the return of commodity selling?

When the servers come back up, I'll probably try to sell my gold and get out while the gettin is good.

 

[Sothpaw]

Uh, they only said that damage isn't going to scale up, I think.

Yep.

Really nice waking up to this news this morning. Really looks like Blizz is listening to the fan base and working to make D3 the best game it can be. Timely news too, as I was just starting to become frustrated with Act III Inferno.

 

[Fenderputty]

You also caught the part where they're decreasing the difficulty and giving higher quality drops from earlier acts right?

The idea is that right now you HAVE to skip way ahead to later acts to get useful gear, so you naturally die like it's going out of style, but under the new system you can get really high quality loot by doing stuff that you are well prepared for, and so you die as much.

The repair costs will take some getting used to at first, but I think it's a good change honestly.

The 3 changes in combination with each other go a long way towards encouraging people to only do content that they're geared for, but also providing the correct incentives to do so and strongly disincentivizing going ahead to content that you're not geared for.

This is exactly it. If you're farming in an area you can't handle, farm a lower level area now, cause you can do so successfuly with the improved drops / stack changes. With the difficulty spike changes, one should no longer have to farm acts one level above the one they're at in order to progress.

I also think it will encourage players to play more wisley. It's also a good gold sink.

I really love all of their changes in the upcoming patch.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Uh, they only said that damage isn't going to scale up, I think.

Hmm, I read it again, I stand corrected. I guess I was getting that change and the change where they're reducing health across the board anyway for mobs in Inferno Act 2 and beyond mixed up / overlapped.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

120 on all but lightning (like 96 or something) so that's about a 25% damage resist on everything iirc

With the one with everything passive, everything should be the same thing.
You want to stack all resist and or one other resist. Not multiple resists.

Getting up to 500 will make act 1 cake, especially if you use deadly reach keen eye, but you'll suck in Act 2. Or at least I do.

Edit, oh wait you're not a monk? Well, either way, you need to do whatever barbs do to increase resists.

 

[Petrie]

that's why my idea is perfect, is it not? Have a normal difficulty progression for the main game. And then add a separate bonus ultra-inferno mode or some BS like that which is no bones about it balls out difficult for those that want it. Also combine that mode with PvP when it launches and it gives people 2 great reasons to try and continue to progress forward rather than dominating the main game over and over.

Ian't that just what Inferno was supposed to be?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'm thinking about giving up my attack speed gear for more survivability on my Barbarian. I'd be losing around 35% attack speed combined (2 rings, 1 amulet), but there are some really nice jewelry items out there, so I should be able to increase my vitality and resist all values by quite a bit.

 

[V_Arnold]

So basically, 1.03 is going to be absolutely amazing. Yep.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Did they just extend maintenance another hour?

 

[Cipherr]

that's why my idea is perfect, is it not? Have a normal difficulty progression for the main game. And then add a separate bonus ultra-inferno mode or some BS like that which is no bones about it balls out difficult for those that want it.

Those two modes were called [Normal through Hell] and [Inferno]. There should be no need to add an [Inferno Inferno]

Ian't that just what Inferno was supposed to be?

Its like you are in my mind. For whatever reason the idea that Inferno IS the hardcore crazy difficulty is completely rejected by alot of the playerbase.

 

[scy]

Ian't that just what Inferno was supposed to be?

Yeah but if they make Inferno 2, it'll be fine this time!

 

[mysteriousmage09]

Did they just extend maintenance another hour?

Blizzard.

 

[aliencowz7]

So difficulty is not something you actually want; what you call being a "badass" I would just call a ridiculously easy game, and it significantly blunts the value of trading. Trading was actually a means of progression up to this point; while I doubt that will be completely obviated, it will certainly be muted.

This is personal preference, obviously, but I'd personally much prefer that acquiring new gear had an actual purpose (i.e. progression), instead of just being something you get so that you can kill Baal even faster than you already could.

I'm ok with difficulty if its fair and based off skill. If it was something like reacting to mechanics with your own class skills or moving from targeted attacks I would be down with it being as hard as possible but inferno right now isn't challenging gameplay its frustrating gameplay.

I think there needs to be a balance struck so that there is a progression of difficulty on a linear curve up to beating the final boss, and then further gear makes you feel beyond that point makes you start feeling more powerful to where the stuff that was difficult before gets progressively easier over time.

I'm sure part of it is preference like you said but right now inferno is simply unfair and requires to much outside help from trading and the AH to make progress. I feel you should be able to at least make progress in a reasonable amount of time without trading and only using what you farm.

 

[zlatko]

Those two modes were called [Normal through Hell] and [Inferno]. There should be no need to add an [Inferno Inferno]



Its like you are in my mind. For whatever reason the idea that Inferno IS the hardcore crazy difficulty is completely rejected by alot of the playerbase.

Inferno Inferno is Hardcore Inferno.

 

[sorijealut]

I'm really annoyed by their time sense.

 

[Voidguts]

Watching hardcore players stream is quite addicting.

links!


and yeah, 1.03.. the co-op damage change is super interesting to me. the increased difficulty of multiplayer is what burned my group out. basically my friends list since launch has gone from full/almost full games in week 1 - to people trying to solo inferno week 2 - to people that haven't signed on in days.. I kinda feel that having no damage mod whatsoever will end up being TOO easy, though. once you factor in all of the added crowd control/buffs/utility you get from having multiple people and mixed classes.

having higher ilvl loot in Act 1 Inf. is cool too. gives me more incentive to keep trying/farming/playing in general.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Did they just extend maintenance another hour?

Yep. I swear this better fix the graphical lag issue 1.0.2 introduced...

 

[Lombax]

wait i'm confused. its past 14:00 est and I just got error 33 on login...

 

[Cipherr]

Yeah but if they make Inferno 2, it'll be fine this time!

I would actually love that at this point, but truth is, whats to say people wont feel just as entitled to breeze through that one also and get Blizzard to buckle?

 

[Opiate]

that's why my idea is perfect, is it not? Have a normal difficulty progression for the main game. And then add a separate bonus ultra-inferno mode or some BS like that which is no bones about it balls out difficult for those that want it. Also combine that mode with PvP when it launches and it gives people 2 great reasons to try and continue to progress forward rather than dominating the main game over and over.

This is what inferno already is, I believe.

 

[DopeyFish]

You need more resists. Barbs have to reduce the damage a lot especially for Inferno.

through All Resist? isn't that like the same as stacking Intelligence or +Armor? It's like physical resist only, right? (physical is at like 35%, damage reduction at 50%)

i have never really been ahead of the difficulty curve with my barbarian... basically have been dying so frequently that I am not sure what I am doing, tbh.

 

[MutFox]

Was losing an auction last night for some wicked boots for cheap...
I then thought I'd bid last minute to win them this morning before work.
Servers down for Maintenance...

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Mostly to increase the longevity of the game, I imagine -- although everyone agrees that the difficulty spikes are a bad thing, even if the difficulty level is debatable.

I think this is a poor choice for the long term health of the game, but the AH is likely to maintain an important sustaining tool, and PvP has yet to launch, so we'll see. As already stated, it is traders and PvPers which sustained D2 through most of its lifetime.

Yesterday you said that D2 had its longevity due to trading and D2JSP users. You also stated that D2 was ridiculously easy for those people. If difficulty is directly tied to longevity, then why does D2 have such good longevity?

Maybe the fun isn't tied directly to difficulty, but is instead tied to the gameplay loop being fun, and the drops being rewarding.

The 100 yard dash is popular not because it's difficult to make it 100 yards, but because it is difficult to make it 100 yards in under 10 seconds. That's the endgame of D2. And it has kept those people that you believe Blizzard designed D3 around hooked for years.

 

[jersoc]

wow 1.0.3 sounds perfect. I'm glad they realized that having tier loot drop in only certain was a stupid decision. The numbers looks good for drop percentages. Not having good weapons being able to drop in act 1 sucks. I'm really glad about the change to MP too.

bummed about attack speed though

 

[Petrie]

Its like you are in my mind. For whatever reason the idea that Inferno IS the hardcore crazy difficulty is completely rejected by alot of the playerbase.

That's what I don't get. We were told ahead of time what Inferno was, and then it's like everyone things "I'm hardcore enough I should be able to handle it easily, it's these other noobs who should have problems".

 

[Cipherr]

OTOH I suppose its amusing to see the shift. In the beta and the short open beta periods there was so much bitching about how easy everything was. Now we get pages and paragraphs worth of posts about how it needs to be easy enough for everyone to get through and merely bottle the fun in 'farming' content you can beat already.

That's what I don't get. We were told ahead of time what Inferno was, and then it's like everyone things "I'm hardcore enough I should be able to handle it easily, it's these other noobs who should have problems".

They probably need to add another difficulty, make it drop higher level loot, and lock both the loot and the entire difficulty to its own Auction house so there's no trickling down of ilvl 68 items trivializing the current Inferno.

 

[Sothpaw]

wow 1.0.3 sounds perfect. I'm glad they realized that having tier loot drop in only certain was a stupid decision. The numbers looks good for drop percentages. Not having good weapons being able to drop in act 1 sucks. I'm really glad about the change to MP too.

bummed about attack speed though

Agreed totally. Now is a great time to work on leveling other characters until inferno is made...less frustrating.

I wonder how I need to gear my WD now though. I stacked ias like a mofo and it got me through act three inferno. Maybe resists/vit will be worth something now.

 

[scy]

through All Resist? isn't that like the same as stacking Intelligence or +Armor? It's like physical resist only, right? (physical is at like 35%, damage reduction at 50%)

i have never really been ahead of the difficulty curve with my barbarian... basically have been dying so frequently that I am not sure what I am doing, tbh.

+1 Resist = +10 Intelligence = +10 Strength = +10 Armor.

10 * Resists = Armor is roughly what you want to have. 400 Resists / 4000 Armor (25% Damage taken) is better than 200 Resist / 6000 Armor (31% Damage taken).

Edit: And the damage taken formula would just be multiplying it out:

Damage Dealt * (1 - ArmorDR%) * (1 - ResistanceDR%) * (1 - OtherDR%)