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Diablo III |OT3| Turn On Elective Mode, Get an Authenticator

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scy

Member
Is it? Just how much base damage are mobs in Act 3 doing?

It's more the case of the difference it makes from 90% -> 91% -> 92%. For instance, a base hit of 100,000 is 10,000 damage to 9,000 damage to 8,000 damage at those mitigation values; that is, 10,000 damage to 9,000 damage means you take 10% less damage than before and 9,000 damage to 8,000 damage means you take 11% less damage than before. Mitigation may climb slower at higher Armor and Resistances but the net impact it has grows when removing those last few percentages.

It's the inverse of the +Attribute returns that get smaller per +1% as your total +Damage% grows. +900% -> +1000% just isn't as big of a net gain as +100% -> 200%. Likewise, -90% to -91% is a lot bigger of a deal than -9% to -10%.

Basically, the return of mitigating "1 more percent" is greater as you get more mitigation which balances out the increased cost of how much more Armor/Resist you need to achieve it. That's what creates the essentially linear EHP effect of Armor and Resistance despite their diminishing returns.
 
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any tips? I'm level 40 and feel like i'm getting worked on nightmare.
 

scy

Member
wow.. get a life?

I think that 60 grind too like 4 hours? I stopped watching part way through. I also like the "theorycrafting guru" part when he started flubbing all over himself with basic math on some Gem calculations :x

Then again, I do that all the time so I guess I can't talk, huh.
 

zlatko

Banned
About to hit Inferno pretty soon on my WD been playing with this build since nightmare. Will it hold up in Inferno?

Vmng6.jpg

I'm still fairly new to WD, but isn't one of the traits better to be used instead is the one that makes your damage go up like 20% and your mana use is upped 10% or whatever?

That one pays in dividens for how fast you can demolish shit.

I'm also a big fan of Acid Spill or whatever than the locusts.
 

FaidSint

Member
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4fd10a70ee7b9.jpg


any tips? I'm level 40 and feel like i'm getting worked on nightmare.

My monk just beat NM, I used Breath of Heaven (is that what its called?) heal. Spamming that will prevent a lot of stupid deaths. Your stats look about even/maybe even better than mine. I solo'd it.

EDIT: And yeah, you need more vitality. Put more into that and healing.
 

scy

Member
any tips? I'm level 40 and feel like i'm getting worked on nightmare.

Barring the previously mentioned HP concerns, what are the DPS on your weapons? 1200-ish feels rather low with 1237 DEX but it's been awhile since I've had a Level 40 character.

Besides that, you can always switch to some more defensive skills. Blinding Flash and Breath of Heaven help a lot. I'm also not a huge fan of Exalted Soul since you should be spending your Spirit really fast, especially if you're Dual Wielding and generating so much Spirit.
 
As a barb, my most hated enemy are fucking wasps with fast affix and any combination of molten/plague/frozen/jailer/vortex. Do they HAVE to run THAT fucking much?!

Molten and Plague make these really bad? Oh you're attacking me? I guess I'll just run away and you can run through my trail of DoTs while you chase me.
 
Someone just posted a purple item link in trade chat that caused my client to crash when I clicked it.

So, warning: Don't click purple links
 

Dahbomb

Member
Someone just posted a purple item link in trade chat that caused my client to crash when I clicked it.

So, warning: Don't click purple links
I just came in here to post this!

I was on fucking 5 stacks about to rune Jailer + Butcher... that shit pissed me off immensely.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Resistance, like armor, has diminishing returns on resistance per point because the actual benefit to effective hp per point of resistance is a power curve; thus, the actual benefit to you in terms of effective hit points/time til death is linear. To put this another way, going from 0% damage reduction from armor to 50% damage reduction from armor doubles your effective hit points, but so does going from 80% damage reduction from armor to 90%; so the points have to get less valuable as you get more of them, or the best defensive strategy would always be to focus on one defensive stat at the expense of all others.

tl;dr: Just pretend you never heard that resistance and armor have diminishing returns and your intuitive understanding will be accurate.

I see what you're saying now. So, instead of considering any kind of numerical values or base damage, etc. when looking at a gear upgrade it's best to just focus on how much % damage less you will be taking after the change.

0% Armor: 100,000 - 0 = 100,000 damage
50% Damage Reduction: 100,000 - 50,000 = 50,000 (50% reduction from 0% Damage Reduction)
80% Damage Reduction: 100,000 - 80,000 = 20,000 (40% reduction from 50% Damage Reduction)
90% Damage Reduction: 100,000 - 90,000 = 10,000 (50% reduction from 80% Damage Reduction)
95% Damage Reduction: 100,000 - 95,000 = 5,000 (50% reduction from 90% Damage Reduction)

As your overall Damage Reduction gains grow smaller, each individual percentage reduces more damage from what you were previously taking. I'm starting to see how this works now.

It's more the case of the difference it makes from 90% -> 91% -> 92%. For instance, a base hit of 100,000 is 10,000 damage to 9,000 damage to 8,000 damage at those mitigation values; that is, 10,000 damage to 9,000 damage means you take 10% less damage than before and 9,000 damage to 8,000 damage means you take 11% less damage than before. Mitigation may climb slower at higher Armor and Resistances but the net impact it has grows when removing those last few percentages.

It's the inverse of the +Attribute returns that get smaller per +1% as your total +Damage% grows. +900% -> +1000% just isn't as big of a net gain as +100% -> 200%. Likewise, -90% to -91% is a lot bigger of a deal than -9% to -10%.

Basically, the return of mitigating "1 more percent" is greater as you get more mitigation which balances out the increased cost of how much more Armor/Resist you need to achieve it. That's what creates the essentially linear EHP effect of Armor and Resistance despite their diminishing returns.

Thanks for the explanation. I think I need to rethink my gear a bit. Right now I have what is effectively an 88% damage reduction on my Barbarian from approx. 65% damage reduction from resists and 65% damage reduction from armor. Unless my math is off, that is.
 
Good god, I had 3k hit points in normal. Get some vitality!

hahaha yeah I just realized that, no wonder stupid little petty enemies with poison/fire just beat my ass. I was focusing too much on my dexterity/DPS. I just need to find some armor that has both dexterity/vitality which has been tough for some reason.

My monk just beat NM, I used Breath of Heaven (is that what its called?) heal. Spamming that will prevent a lot of stupid deaths. Your stats look about even/maybe even better than mine. I solo'd it.

EDIT: And yeah, you need more vitality. Put more into that and healing.

I'll try that skill instead. I've been soloing as well.

Barring the previously mentioned HP concerns, what are the DPS on your weapons? 1200-ish feels rather low with 1237 DEX but it's been awhile since I've had a Level 40 character.

Besides that, you can always switch to some more defensive skills. Blinding Flash and Breath of Heaven help a lot. I'm also not a huge fan of Exalted Soul since you should be spending your Spirit really fast, especially if you're Dual Wielding and generating so much Spirit.

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:/

I'd change some skills around.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#WYiQgX!XUY!ZYZbaZ

Try to get to this as much as you can. Can swap out say the vortex for a mystic ally. Air one is super great IMO...feels like it procs WAY more than 2% of the time to get tons of spirit back.

I'll see how those work. Thanks man.
 

TheYanger

Member
I see what you're saying now. So, instead of considering any kind of numerical values or base damage, etc. when looking at a gear upgrade it's best to just focus on how much % damage less you will be taking after the change.

0% Armor: 100,000 - 0 = 100,000 damage

50% Damage Reduction: 100,000 - 50,000 = 50,000 (50% reduction from 0% Damage Reduction)

80% Damage Reduction: 100,000 - 80,000 = 20,000 (40% reduction from 50% Damage Reduction)

90% Damage Reduction: 100,000 - 90,000 = 10,000 (50% reduction from 80% Damage Reduction)

95% Damage Reduction: 100,000 - 95,000 = 5,000 (50% reduction from 90% Damage Reduction)

As your overall Damage Reduction gains grow smaller, each individual percentage reduces more damage from what you were previously taking. I'm starting to see how this works now.

Bingo :) Damage reduction from resist and armor is almost completely linear last I checked. (like .01 off). I've known people who could NEVER understand this concept in years of wow. Thankfully they weren't anyone who mattered.
 

Zampano

Member
Hey Diablo Gaf, thanks for all the advice earlier. My new monk spec is ripping through Hell Act 2 - only died a couple of times, and I can now easily solo the Butcher. 60 is in sight!

On of the main things that I've had to get used to is actually "playing" the game. You really need to start looking out for animation cues and dodging etc. This may sound obvious, but on normal and even nightmare, I was just spamming my most awesome looking attacks. I'd occasionally die but on the whole it was pretty forgiving.

I do miss exploding palm though. Setting off a chain reaction of the fire rune that spreads through low level mobs was amazing.

I think I'm developing a problem with this game though. There's something about it where it's all I can think about. It gets into your reflexes and subconscious in a way no other game has. I'm either going to have to go cold turkey for a bit or go get hardcore into it and get it out of my system.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
I'm still fairly new to WD, but isn't one of the traits better to be used instead is the one that makes your damage go up like 20% and your mana use is upped 10% or whatever?

That one pays in dividens for how fast you can demolish shit.

I'm also a big fan of Acid Spill or whatever than the locusts.

It's stronger sure, but then I get into the issue of running out of mana when I need it most. I'm not really straight up killing things but kinda kiting things around. Acid is a bit restricted for that.
 

scy

Member
I see what you're saying now. So, instead of considering any kind of numerical values or base damage, etc. when looking at a gear upgrade it's best to just focus on how much % damage less you will be taking after the change.

0% Armor: 100,000 - 0 = 100,000 damage

50% Damage Reduction: 100,000 - 50,000 = 50,000 (50% reduction from 0% Damage Reduction)

80% Damage Reduction: 100,000 - 80,000 = 20,000 (40% reduction from 50% Damage Reduction)

90% Damage Reduction: 100,000 - 90,000 = 10,000 (50% reduction from 80% Damage Reduction)

95% Damage Reduction: 100,000 - 95,000 = 5,000 (50% reduction from 90% Damage Reduction)

As your overall Damage Reduction gains grow smaller, each individual percentage reduces more damage from what you were previously taking. I'm starting to see how this works now.

Pretty much. The only thing I like to note is that there's "diminishing returns" in the sense of gold spent. People overvalue more and more +Resists and don't value +Defensive Attributes (e.g., high STR or INT on a high DEX/VIT/Resist item for Monks) or +Armor nearly as much as they should. You can start shopping around and seeing items that may cost you a few points of Resistances but gain you +100-ish STR or Armor and still be an overall upgrade.

Basically:
10 STR = 10 Armor = 10 INT = 1 Resistance
 

pigeon

Banned
Bingo :) Damage reduction from resist and armor is almost completely linear last I checked. (like .01 off). I've known people who could NEVER understand this concept in years of wow. Thankfully they weren't anyone who mattered.

The easiest way to understand it is to play a game like City of Heroes where this is NOT true and it becomes immediately obvious how important it is to stack resists (or dodge, or whatever) as close to the cap as you possibly can. Blizzard was too smart again!
 

scy

Member
The easiest way to understand it is to play a game like City of Heroes where this is NOT true and it becomes immediately obvious how important it is to stack resists (or dodge, or whatever) as close to the cap as you possibly can. Blizzard was too smart again!

Oh City of Heroes. Good times.

I think. It's been years :|
 

TheExodu5

Banned
About to hit Inferno pretty soon on my WD been playing with this build since nightmare. Will it hold up in Inferno?

Vmng6.jpg

Hah, my build eh?

It works really great in Act 1. Act 2 is a different story...but I don't think any build works well in act 2 for WD.

I really like the build because it's fast, and allows you to do a fair bit of damage while being able to easily kite most mobs. A few champion packs will give you issues, and the disappearing nagas in Act 2 completely circumvent your CC, but otherwise it's good.

I recently switched out Blood Ritual for Jungle Fortitude, since it allows me to tank 1-2 hits before Spirit Vessel triggers. Once I move past Act 2 to Act 3, I'll probably switch back to Blood Ritual

The build benefits a lot from mana regen items. Move speed and attack speed are always good, since they allow you to kite much more effectively.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Hah, my build eh?

It works really great in Act 1. Act 2 is a different story...but I don't think any build works well in act 2 for WD.

I really like the build because it's fast, and allows you to do a fair bit of damage while being able to easily kite most mobs. A few champion packs will give you issues, and the disappearing nagas in Act 2 completely circumvent your CC, but otherwise it's good.
haha didn't know anyone played WD like this, I just hear people talking about VQ all damn day.

Yeah Im thinking of swapping to zombie wall when it comes time to deal with nagas.
 

Rufus

Member
Vision Quest shines when you have someone to distract shit for you. Alone you need to kill shit quick or you're getting overrun, no matter how many Zombie Bears you're throwing at them. (Assuming you're not using Dire Bats, but even then this applies somewhat.)

Act 2 is a different story...but I don't think any build works well in act 2 for WD.
Yeah, bums me out. :/



Knockback mobs, annoying. Vortex mobs, annoying. Both teaming up to ping-pong you around the damned screen, really fucking annoying.
 

panty

Member
Okay I'm clueless. I'm in act 2 Inferno and I can't do shit. My dps is crap and it kills pretty much nothing and all the mobs kill me instantly.

1W1DV.jpg


My stats. Obviously buffed but that's what they look like pretty much constantly. I also have no money and can't afford new gear. A better weapon would cost about 2-3m at least *sigh*.

Any advice?

E: build

8Loqm.png
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Knockback mobs, annoying. Vortex mobs, annoying. Both teaming up to ping-pong you around the damned screen, really fucking annoying.


Yeah, bums me out. :/

I got jailed back to back twice vs those little exploding guys...

Hows that WD build work? might give it ago!
Like an affliction warlock sorta if you ever played WoW *minus the life drain shit* Throw out your haunt and keep moving, place your grasp in front of you and run through it, when they get sorta close spin around locust and run the fuck away. if you get some good distance get some spirit barrages off repeat all day everyday and never get touched.
 

TheExodu5

Banned
haha didn't know anyone played WD like this, I just hear people talking about VQ all damn day.

Yeah Im thinking of swapping to zombie wall when it comes time to deal with nagas.

It's skill for skill, rune for rune, passive for passive the same build I posted a week ago here. :p

wd_inferno_build.png


As I've said, I've made a few tweaks since. Blood Ritual for Jungle Fortitude (for Act 2 only), Honored Guest for the 3 second rune, and I've swapped Horrify for Fetish Army (try it).
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Pretty much. The only thing I like to note is that there's "diminishing returns" in the sense of gold spent. People overvalue more and more +Resists and don't value +Defensive Attributes (e.g., high STR or INT on a high DEX/VIT/Resist item for Monks) or +Armor nearly as much as they should. You can start shopping around and seeing items that may cost you a few points of Resistances but gain you +100-ish STR or Armor and still be an overall upgrade.

Basically:
10 STR = 10 Armor = 10 INT = 1 Resistance

I think I get this, but just because I suck at math, I want to confirm. Is this always true? Are there ever any situations where, from a purely defensive perspective, you'd be better off taking one of these stats over one of the others (for example, 5 Resistance over 60 Armor)?

In an extreme example, would it be exactly to have 10,000 Armor and 0 Resistances than to have 8,000 Armor and 200 in each resist?
 

mercviper

Member
Okay I'm clueless. I'm in act 2 Inferno and I can't do shit. My dps is crap and it kills pretty much nothing and all the mobs kill me instantly.

1W1DV.jpg


My stats. Obviously buffed but that's what they look like pretty much constantly. I also have no money and can't afford new gear. A better weapon would cost about 2-3m at least *sigh*.

Any advice?

Not really seeing any problem except maybe the missing Life on Hit. Also build is pretty important too, but since you're doing Act 2 Inferno I'd assume it's pretty solid already.
 

Grimadin

Neo Member
hahaha yeah I just realized that, no wonder stupid little petty enemies with poison/fire just beat my ass. I was focusing too much on my dexterity/DPS. I just need to find some armor that has both dexterity/vitality which has been tough for some reason.



I'll try that skill instead. I've been soloing as well.




:/



I'll see how those work. Thanks man.

Hj95E.png


This is what I used in NM, with your dps Wave of Light should just kill everything. You can change the punch around to anything, but with your low life it might be better to give yourself some room to move around. Grab the templar and get the 12% boost to spirit gain, you should be getting around 6 spirit a second to help spam Wave of Light.
 

Kenaras

Member
The easiest way to understand it is to play a game like City of Heroes where this is NOT true and it becomes immediately obvious how important it is to stack resists (or dodge, or whatever) as close to the cap as you possibly can. Blizzard was too smart again!

...Or Diablo 1/2. In both of those, resistances had linear returns on damage reduction percentage, which means they had increasing returns on actual survivability. (Up to the 75% hard cap.)
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
It's skill for skill, rune for rune, passive for passive the same build I posted a week ago here. :p

wd_inferno_build.png


As I've said, I've made a few tweaks since. Blood Ritual for Jungle Fortitude (for Act 2 only), Honored Guest for the 3 second rune, and I've swapped Horrify for Fetish Army (try it).

LOL wow it is XD wait no our bottom skills are a different order! :p

I'll give that stuff a try though when the time comes thanks :D
 

Grimadin

Neo Member
Okay I'm clueless. I'm in act 2 Inferno and I can't do shit. My dps is crap and it kills pretty much nothing and all the mobs kill me instantly.



My stats. Obviously buffed but that's what they look like pretty much constantly. I also have no money and can't afford new gear. A better weapon would cost about 2-3m at least *sigh*.

Any advice?

Put a purple gem in your help to give you that 15% boost to hp or whatever it is. Everything else looks fine.

Edit: Change Sweeping strike or wave of light to Serenity, those few second really help. And change Exalted Soul to Transcendence, spamming the mantra or other moves helps to heal you up.
 
I beat Inferno Act 1 last night on my Witch Doctor

Like I posted the other day I finally hit some magic threshold that made the entire act relatively "easy" shortly after Skeleton King. That being said The Butcher was an extremely frustrating encounter, up until him I had killed about 10 Champion packs and had a full 5/5 valor (obviously) and was very confident with myself. During my 2nd attempt however I accidentally dragged Darts off my bar and lost my NV (I always forget to shut off elective mode to lock the bars). Shit!

Anyways, the fight itself wasn't too ridiculous. The problem was I kept getting him down to about 8% HP and then almost the ENTIRE floor would light on fire all at once and then just constantly keep relighting every second or so, killing me each time. I had heard in the past about boss enrage timers on Inferno so I can only assume I kept hitting it. The attempt I actually downed him I was down to like 3% health in Spirit Walk form while the entire arena was ablaze when I hit him with the killing blow. Is there an actual enrage timer or does the fire always go crazy when he's low health - never noticed it like that before? How many minutes does it give you if there is?

I want to continue farming that last area since there are so many champion packs and the complex yet narrow hallways make it easy to kite and CC enemies with Zombie Wall. Right now I'm sitting on about 30k HP, 25k Damage, and roughly 300 Resists
 

TheYanger

Member
I beat Inferno Act 1 last night on my Witch Doctor

Like I posted the other day I finally hit some magic threshold that made the entire act relatively "easy" shortly after Skeleton King. That being said The Butcher was an extremely frustrating encounter, up until him I had killed about 10 Champion packs and had a full 5/5 valor (obviously) and was very confident with myself. During my 2nd attempt however I accidentally dragged Darts off my bar and lost my NV (I always forget to shut off elective mode to lock the bars). Shit!

Anyways, the fight itself wasn't too ridiculous. The problem was I kept getting him down to about 8% HP and then almost the ENTIRE floor would light on fire all at once and then just constantly keep relighting every second or so, killing me each time. I had heard in the past about boss enrage timers on Inferno so I can only assume I kept hitting it. The attempt I actually downed him I was down to like 3% health in Spirit Walk form while the entire arena was ablaze when I hit him with the killing blow. Is there an actual enrage timer or does the fire always go crazy when he's low health - never noticed it like that before? How many minutes does it give you if there is?

I want to continue farming that last area since there are so many champion packs and the complex yet narrow hallways make it easy to kite and CC enemies with Zombie Wall. Right now I'm sitting on about 30k HP, 25k Damage, and roughly 300 Resists

The butcher is the only boss that has a soft enrage like that that I've seen. About 3 minutes in is when the floor starts going berserk, faster is DEFINITELY better. 3-3.5 minutes and the entire floor starts lighting up. Belial and Azmodan took me ages and I never noticed any change.
 

TheExodu5

Banned
LOL wow it is XD wait no our bottom skills are a different order! :p

I'll give that stuff a try though when the time comes thanks :D

NP.

I haven't decided if I'm going to keep Fetish Army or Horrify yet. Fetish Army is great since they actually act as tanks and take the heat off you for 10-15 seconds. The main problem is if you can't kill the champion pack during that timeframe you only have your spirit walk left to save you. The problem with Horrify is that if you don't Horrify the whole pack, it doesn't help you much...and even then, it doesn't work well on certain mob types (shielding).

So far, I think Fetish Army is more useful versus champions, and Horrify is more useful versus trash mobs.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
NP.

I haven't decided if I'm going to keep Fetish Army or Horrify yet. Fetish Army is great since they actually act as tanks and take the heat off you for 10-15 seconds. The main problem is if you can't kill the champion pack during that timeframe you only have your spirit walk left to save you. The problem with Horrify is that if you don't Horrify the whole pack, it doesn't help you much...and even then, it doesn't work well on certain mob types (shielding).

So far, I think Fetish Army is more useful versus champions, and Horrify is more useful versus trash mobs.

Did you ever try confusion? :3
 

scy

Member
I think I get this, but just because I suck at math, I want to confirm. Is this always true? Are there ever any situations where, from a purely defensive perspective, you'd be better off taking one of these stats over one of the others (for example, 5 Resistance over 60 Armor)?

In an extreme example, would it be exactly to have 10,000 Armor and 0 Resistances than to have 8,000 Armor and 200 in each resist?

Well, 1 STR = 1 Armor and 1 INT = 0.1 Resistance, regardless of your stats. For when Armor = Resistance * 10, 10 STR = 10 Armor = 10 INT = 1 Resistance is true. It's not necessarily the case for all possible values of Armor and Resistance (as, in your example, 10000 Armor with 0 Resistances is 76% DR while 8000 Armor / 200 Resistances is 83%).

5000 Armor / 500 Resists is better than 6000 Armor / 400 Resists, if ever so slightly (~85.1% Mitigation vs ~84.9%).
 

Kenaras

Member
Yeah been searching for LoH gear but so pricey...

My build,

8Loqm.png

Your stats are much, much higher than mine, other than the lack of life on hit. I'd start by trying a more defensive build. Drop Wave of Light and Sweeping Wind; with those gone Exalted Soul becomes useless, so drop that as well. You absolutely need Serenity; both Peaceful Repose and Ascension are good runes for it. Try out Transcendence or Resolve for your third passive, most likely Transcendence due to your lack of life on hit. Experiment with options for your final skill slot. I'd recommend starting with Earth Ally and Lashing Tail Kick - Sweeping Armada to see how you like them, but there's a huge number of viable options.
 

Rufus

Member
Anyways, the fight itself wasn't too ridiculous. The problem was I kept getting him down to about 8% HP and then almost the ENTIRE floor would light on fire all at once and then just constantly keep relighting every second or so, killing me each time.
I had the same problem. When I finally did it the third try or so I died to the fire almost immediately after I'd killed him. Got back in from the checkpoint and my loot was waiting for me. Good enough. I really don't feel like farming him though...
I also had serious problems evading his hook, but that may have been down to latency.
 
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