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[Cipherr]

+1 respect to his attitude ...

Seriously this. I dont know how hardcore players handle that. I really just can't. I can't put hours into a character and have one mistake ream me permanently. The very idea is absurd to me. But it makes for some extremely thrilling streaming, I love to watch those guys even just go farm because of the possible finality of it.

Perma-death doesn't have much consequence when you just exploit your way to 60 again in a few hours.

Lets be serious here, yeah it does have lots of consequence. Even without the leveling bugs, HC is all about the gear and progression in Inferno at level 60. And he still loses/lost all of that. He took that like a G.


Edit: Happy to see they are doing some stuff for melee. Lately discussing anything Inferno, especially if you are doing so from a ranged classes perspective, has become nauseating as you are immediately suicide rushed by 50 Monks and Barbarians shouting "LOLBROIMAGINEMELEE" as if none of us have 60 Barbs and Monks also.

We know.... Jesus.

 

[rCIZZLE]

Seriously this. I dont know how hardcore players handle that. I really just can't. I can't put hours into a character and have one mistake ream me permanently. The very idea is absurd to me. But it makes for some extremely thrilling streaming, I love to watch those guys even just go farm because of the possible finality of it.



Lets be serious here, yeah it does have lots of consequence. Even without the leveling bugs, HC is all about the gear and progression in Inferno at level 60. And he still loses/lost all of that. He took that like a G.


Edit: Happy to see they are doing some stuff for melee. Lately discussing anything Inferno, especially if you are doing so from a ranged classes perspective, has become nauseating as you are immediately suicide rushed by 50 Monks and Barbarians shouting "LOLBROIMAGINEMELEE" as if none of us have 60 Barbs and Monks also.

We know.... Jesus.

Well, to be fair those of us who chose melee characters missed out on a lot of easy gold thanks to being stuck in Hell until Inferno A1-viable gear was put on the AH for a reasonable amount. A beta with a level cap of 13 simply isn't enough to decide the game is ready to go. Spending ~40 hours getting my first character to Inferno only to find out he's useless at the time was pretty frustrating. I doubt seeing a few complaints is 40-hours worth of frustration.

 

[Shalashaska161]

I've got a couple questions about gearing my Wizard. I'm slowly working my way towards Act 2 Inferno, and I'm just wondering if any of my stats is looking too low or something compared to the others. Also, what should I be looking for in the future when it comes to gearing? I'm trying to buy myself some new rings and I'm kinda stuck wondering what I should be looking for.

This is my dude completely unbuffed, though I can get up to just below 30k DPS with my enchantress and weapon buff and 580ish resistances with Prismatic Armor on.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Can HC characters share a stash, or is the stash exclusive to each HC character? Because if so, you could have a progression/combat gear and a farm gear. Then you are only losing your farming gear and a few hours to speed level. But if you have a completely separate stash ... that is rough.

I have a 35 HC right now, and he will never seen Inferno if I even make it that far. Kid gloves to get him to 60 and through Hell. Bosses are easy, elites are the hardest part, and they don't get too serious until Hell anyways.

 

[KKRT00]

Can HC characters share a stash, or is the stash exclusive to each HC character? Because if so, you could have a progression/combat gear and a farm gear. Then you are only losing your farming gear and a few hours to speed level. But if you have a completely separate stash ... that is rough.

I have a 35 HC right now, and he will never seen Inferno if I even make it that far. Kid gloves to get him to 60 and through Hell. Bosses are easy, elites are the hardest part, and they don't get too serious until Hell anyways.

Its shared.

 

[Einbroch]

Wyatt Cheng on Melee vs Range Disparity

Very interesting and thank you jesus.

So a Mortar fix, reduced damage done to everyone, and increased repair costs are their answers?

Yeah. They still don't get it.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

Though my subjective assessment may be way off, I'm surprised at the lack of love for Acid Rain among Witch Doctors. I think it may be one of the best AOE attacks in the game up through Hell.

Plus there's no cool down, which totally kills Pile On. Fucking cool downs.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I've got a couple questions about gearing my Wizard. I'm slowly working my way towards Act 2 Inferno, and I'm just wondering if any of my stats is looking too low or something compared to the others. Also, what should I be looking for in the future when it comes to gearing? I'm trying to buy myself some new rings and I'm kinda stuck wondering what I should be looking for.

This is my dude completely unbuffed, though I can get up to just below 30k DPS with my enchantress and weapon buff and 580ish resistances with Prismatic Armor on.

I'm just now starting Act1 Inferno---curious to hear what people have to say about your character. I'm not sure what stats to go for with my armor. I do 20K DPS right now, but I feel my armor is pathetic. Just deciding what stats/abilities on gear to go for.

 

[Artanisix]

So a Mortar fix, reduced damage done to everyone, and increased repair costs are their answers?

Yeah. They still don't get it.

What don't they get? These seem like a good step in the right direction to me.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So a Mortar fix, reduced damage done to everyone, and increased repair costs are their answers?

Yeah. They still don't get it.

What aren't they getting?

 

[Goodacre0081]

I finished up Hell last night but now the Champions/Rares in act1 inferno are annihilating me. should I go back to act4-hell or keep on plugging away at the beginning of act1-inferno?

 

[LordCanti]

I finished up Hell last night but now the Champions/Rares in act1 inferno are annihilating me. should I go back to act4-hell or keep on plugging away at the beginning of act1-inferno?

Which class? Chances are you need better gear, but you're unlikely to find it in Hell.

What aren't they getting?

Extra repairs aren't enough of a gold sink. The method these farmers are using doesn't involve a lot of deaths.

Honestly, they need to restrict access to the RMAH from overseas, or just get rid of global play altogether. Putting a temporary halt to gold transfers (via the "trade" window) would also help, since farmers wouldn't be able to unload gold. Making it so that people have no choice but to go through the AH/RMAH (when it's up) and then securing that (locking by region extremely strictly, putting very tight monetary restrictions on how much can be cashed out, etc) would be the best option I think.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

I finished up Hell last night but now the Champions/Rares in act1 inferno are annihilating me. should I go back to act4-hell or keep on plugging away at the beginning of act1-inferno?

Drops are better in Inferno. Look for cheap all resist plus primary attribute gear to make you more survivable.

 

[cpp_is_king]

So a Mortar fix, reduced damage done to everyone, and increased repair costs are their answers?

Yeah. They still don't get it.

lol. enlighten us, considering that every single change they're discussing is good.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I finished up Hell last night but now the Champions/Rares in act1 inferno are annihilating me. should I go back to act4-hell or keep on plugging away at the beginning of act1-inferno?

Can you make it through normal mobs without too much trouble? If so, it's probably an issue of skills/tactics. Going toe-to-toe with most rare packs in Inferno is just not going to work.

Extra repairs aren't enough of a gold sink. The method these farmers are using doesn't involve a lot of deaths.

Honestly, they need to restrict access to the RMAH from overseas, or just get rid of global play altogether. Putting a temporary halt to gold transfers (via the "trade" window) would also help, since farmers wouldn't be able to unload gold.

Nothing about their post has anything to do with gold, the auction house, or the economy as a whole. What are you talking about?

 

[Einbroch]

What aren't they getting?

The fact that ranged still will do a lot more damage than melee? How are these changes going to help with that? All these changes minus the Mortar ones help ranged as well.

 

[LordCanti]

Nothing about their post has anything to do with gold, the auction house, or the economy as a whole. What are you talking about?

?

Increased repair costs have everything to do with the economy as a whole. I was commenting on just that aspect of the post.

Edit: Reading the linked article, I see that it was a Ranged vs Melee debate specifically. On that topic specifically, I agree that they don't really get it. The advantage ranged has (and will always have) is that we can maximize DPS without really having to worry about survivability.

They are making it more expensive so that zerging encounters as a range is a far less attractive proposal. Why are you bringing up gold farmers?

Honestly, I hit refresh and it did that weird thing where some posts appear above other posts (when they aren't supposed to) due to some sort of browser glitch. I saw one of the posts on gold farming, then that post, and thought they were related.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The fact that ranged still will do a lot more damage than melee? How are these changes going to help with that? All these changes minus the Mortar ones help ranged as well.

The only specific examples he gave are ones that will impact everyone.

They've said that they are looking at certain classes and skills as part of 1.0.3 and beyond. Bottom line is that Wyatt recognizes that there is a disparity and wants to close it.

?

Increased repair costs have everything to do with the economy as a whole. I was commenting on just that aspect of the post.

They are making it more expensive so that zerging encounters as a range is a far less attractive proposal. Why are you bringing up gold farmers?

 

[Tapiozona]

If anyone levels 50-59 wants to power level some exp for about an hour with me, let me know. It's about 60k per 45 seconds. I'm going to do it for an hour to hit level 60 and figured may not extend the offer to anyone else who's interested. (ability to freeze helps or slow enemies helps a ton)

 

[GJS]

Melee can't easily death-zerg an enemy down, but ranged can. I don't think the answer is to make death-zerging more attractive for melee; I'd rather make death-zerging a less profitable strategy for ranged.

How can they say that? "death-zerg" or just kiting enemies to your check point and repeatedly re-spawning to kill them before their health refills, works exactly the same for melee characters as you have invlunerability skills that let you pile on damage.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Edit: Reading the linked article, I see that it was a Ranged vs Melee debate specifically. On that topic specifically, I agree that they don't really get it. The advantage ranged has (and will always have) is that we can maximize DPS without really having to worry about survivability.

The only reason that melee cannot maximize their DPS is because, currently, is that they have to do a lot of running around and can't go toe-to-toe with groups. I can put out some sick AE damage as a Barbarian if only I'm able to survive. Increasing survivability for melee directly increases their DPS, too.

 

[Anustart]

Okay, what's the deal with elites and healing. Drives me absolutely nuts when sometimes they heal completely if you die, sometimes they don't. I've had them heal completely in half a second, or stay damaged for 5 minutes, there doesn't seem to be any logic behind it. But when they do heal up completely it becomes ridiculous.

 

[Einbroch]

Edit: Reading the linked article, I see that it was a Ranged vs Melee debate specifically. On that topic specifically, I agree that they don't really get it. The advantage ranged has (and will always have) is that we can maximize DPS without really having to worry about survivability.

Exactly. These changes are good, but these have nothing to do with melee vs ranged.

 

[sleepykyo]

The fact that ranged still will do a lot more damage than melee? How are these changes going to help with that? All these changes minus the Mortar ones help ranged as well.

Isn't that the trade off? Better toughness vs. better offense.

 

[LordCanti]

The only reason that melee cannot maximize their DPS is because, currently, is that they have to do a lot of running around and can't go toe-to-toe with groups. I can put out some sick AE damage as a Barbarian if only I'm able to survive. Increasing survivability for melee directly increases their DPS, too.

I probably should have said "we can maximize DPS cheaply". We don't have to take into account things like vita or resistances on our gear. You'd be surprised how cheap gear that is just +dex is, when you don't need to worry about finding dex, vit, res all, etc, combos on items.

This may not apply to Wizards (I've only rolled a DH, and I have no immediate plans to roll anything else).

 

[GJS]

Okay, what's the deal with elites and healing. Drives me absolutely nuts when sometimes they heal completely if you die, sometimes they don't. I've had them heal completely in half a second, or stay damaged for 5 minutes, there doesn't seem to be any logic behind it. But when they do heal up completely it becomes ridiculous.

They are supposed to heal after something like 10 seconds out of combat but dots and some other things keep their health down sometimes.

The designers want people to be killing the mobs from full health and not dying and then carrying on from where they left off.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Isn't that the trade off? Better toughness vs. better offense.

That's what the trade off should be! Right now, mob damage is so high that it really doesn't matter that much unless you have absolutely ridiculous gear. If melee see their survivability increased, then they will be able to do more damage, too.

 

[Einbroch]

Isn't that the trade off? Better toughness vs. better offense.

A trade off that ranged does not have to take a part of. That's the issue, and I really don't see how it can be fixed.

 

[Goodacre0081]

Which class? Chances are you need better gear, but you're unlikely to find it in Hell.

Can you make it through normal mobs without too much trouble? If so, it's probably an issue of skills/tactics. Going toe-to-toe with most rare packs in Inferno is just not going to work.

if i take on the mobs slowly i can manage but when i get surrounded I still get smoked pretty fast. I guess what I'm asking is what would be better for farming gold/loot.

 

[Cipherr]

?

Increased repair costs have everything to do with the economy as a whole. I was commenting on just that aspect of the post.

Edit: Reading the linked article, I see that it was a Ranged vs Melee debate specifically. On that topic specifically, I agree that they don't really get it. The advantage ranged has (and will always have) is that we can maximize DPS without really having to worry about survivability.

You arent reading then. The reason that my DH is full on glass cannon, with every piece of armor and weapon dedicated to damage dealing is because the option to gear for survivabilty is not valid. It really doesnt WORK in a 4 player game. I can get all the resist all gear I want, even with an average of 70 in each slot I will still get one shot. Melee should know this better than most.

This means I go glass cannon and do more damage than you by magnitudes because its my only bloody choice. You decrease damage by 45%, remove some of the spikiness and issues with bees and other cheap mobs, and all of a sudden I have an option. Especially since glass cannon farming is being killed off by extremely high repair costs. No more death zerging by chaining smoke screens and unloading my hate then dying after my prep and discipline are gone.

All of a sudden, I have a reason to gear for survivability. Looking for armor pieces with 70 resist, vitality and +armor matters now because it actually has an effect. And in the end, doing 50k dps, but dying 10% as much as I used too is a fun and rewarding tradeoff. And in order to get those stats, guess what I sacrifice? Damage.

Some classes will always do more damage than melee, its designed to be that way, 30% more damage for Wizards DH and WD, and some classes will always TAKE less damage than others, 30% less damage taken for Barbs and Monks. Its supposed to be that way, its the way they designed it.

So yeah, what is it exactly that they aren't getting? Because that whole post makes perfect sense.

A trade off that ranged does not have to take a part of. That's the issue, and I really don't see how it can be fixed.

This is stupid, what dreamworld are you guys in where glass cannon builds arent taking part in less defense? You think we are running around blowing shit up and not dying? Glass cannons die ALOT, ranged dies ALOT, and they will even more with the changes to things like Mortar discussed in that post that will prevent them from being able to cheese their way out of facing the consequences of low survivability. Especially if they dont adapt and cede a ton of that dps for survivability stats post patch.

Sometimes I think people see videos of a DH killing some inferno pack with the perfect affixes while kiting flawlessly and extrapolate that to the entirety of Inferno. Thats sort of like me posting a video of a Barb kiting a ghost around one of the Act 4 teleporters while Tyrael kills him and saying "Oh see! Barb survivability is fine! They barely take any damage at all!".

 

[Wallach]

Melee vs ranged is not nearly as much of a genuine balance problem as people think. It has a lot to do with the softcore vs hardcore mentality and playstyles people gravitated towards specifically because of balance issues from Inferno damage output and builds necessary to survive. Barbarians are capable of doing absurd damage with a 2H build (100k unbuffed, 200-400k fully buffed type absurd), but it isn't a viable playstyle beyond act 1 because of the damage output of Inferno mobs. When they take a bat to the knees of Inferno damage output, these kinds of builds will become a lot more popular, at least in softcore.

Melee doesn't need any help in regards to hardcore (i.e. survivability) because they're already head and shoulders superior to all of the ranged classes in that regard.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

if i take on the mobs slowly i can manage but when i get surrounded I still get smoked pretty fast. I guess what I'm asking is what would be better for farming gold/loot.

I think you could easily beat Act 1 and farm the Butcher with those stats if you just change out your skills.

You need more defense. Tough as Nails (or maybe Nerves of Steel with your vitality) and War Cry (either + Armor Rune or + Resistance Rune if you have decent resists already) should definitely be in your set. They should bring your Armor up to over 6000. After that you probably want some resists.

I'm not a fan of Bash so I would definitely switch it with Cleave or Frenzy (+ Sidearm).

If you don't mind a bit of kiting, you should be able to get by pretty easily by switching in Seismic Slam (+ reduced cost Rune) for your secondary attack. Throw on Sprint (+ Marathon) if you need more mobility options.

Also, I don't see how you're getting any use out of Pound of Flesh, honestly. So I'd swap it for another skill that either gives more defense or more DPS (extra critical hits and damage is always nice).

 

[LordCanti]

You arent reading then. The reason that my DH is full on glass cannon, with every piece of armor and weapon dedicated to damage dealing is because the option to gear for survivabilty is not valid. It really doesnt WORK in a 4 player game. I can get all the resist all gear I want, even with an average of 70 in each slot I will still get one shot. Melee should know this better than most.

This means I go glass cannon and do more damage than you by magnitudes because its my only bloody choice. You decrease damage by 45%, remove some of the spikiness and issues with bees and other cheap mobs, and all of a sudden I have an option. Especially since glass cannon farming is being killed off by extremely high repair costs. No more death zerging by chaining smoke screens and unloading my hate then dying after my prep and discipline are gone.

All of a sudden, I have a reason to gear for survivability. Looking for armor pieces with 70 resist, vitality and +armor matters now because it actually has an effect. And in the end, doing 50k dps, but dying 10% as much as I used too is a fun and rewarding tradeoff. And in order to get those stats, guess what I sacrifice? Damage.

Some classes will always do more damage than melee, its designed to be that way, 30% more damage for Wizards DH and WD, and some classes will always TAKE less damage than others, 30% less damage taken for Barbs and Monks.

So yeah, what is it exactly that they aren't getting? Because that whole post makes perfect sense.



This is stupid, what dreamworld are you guys in where glass cannon builds arent taking part in less defense? You think we are running around blowing shit up and not dying? Glass cannons die ALOT, ranged dies ALOT, and they will even more with the changes to things like Mortar discussed in that post that will prevent them from being able to cheese their way out of facing the consequences of low survivability. Especially if they dont adapt and cede a ton of that dps for survivability stats post patch.

They could increase repair costs ten fold and the gold would still be trivial. Trivial compared to trying to out-spend monks for +dex and resistance gear that will only allow for a few more hits anyway.

The problem is our main stat, not the enemies we're up against. Relying on dodge when you die in two or three hits is ridiculous when every other class gets a straight defensive buff from their main stat. Replacing Smoke Screen for Shadow Power is basically just swapping one "if I run out of discipline I'm dead" tactic for another. We don't have nearly enough options.

 

[RDreamer]

So, today I learned my monk build works pretty damned well.

I played in a random Act 2 inferno game with a demon hunter and a barbarian. We were doing the last Kule quest, and I was the tank. The Barbarian was one of the worst players I've ever seen. I have no idea why the guy kept playing or why me and the DH didn't boot him after a few minutes. He was literally always dead. If an enemy looked cross at him he died. Instantly. It wasn't even a contest. He was seriously there just making our game tougher.

Me on the other hand? I tanked some stuff heavily. There were a few elite packs throughout Kule's lair that I survived the entire time, and they were some tough ones. The DH said I was one of the only monks he'd ever seen surviving that well. One of the elite groups I pretty much had to solo. The Barb was dead, and the DH kept getting mortared since they were in a terrible spot (and that dungeon was hard for him to maneuver at all).

So, really, if you guys playing monks want a nice survivability build this one seems to work. I don't think I've seen anyone alternating main skills like that. I flip back and forth between them, 3 attacks with one then 3 with the other. I constantly get 15% dodge and +50% armor from the two skills.

It also might work well because of my equipment. I've got a 15% string of ears, and my bracers have 4%. I have an amulet I might start using in Act 3 with another 4. I was hoping to score a good set of armor with some on, too, but I couldn't find anything ultimately.

 

[smr00]

Which class? Chances are you need better gear, but you're unlikely to find it in Hell.



Extra repairs aren't enough of a gold sink. The method these farmers are using doesn't involve a lot of deaths.

Honestly, they need to restrict access to the RMAH from overseas, or just get rid of global play altogether. Putting a temporary halt to gold transfers (via the "trade" window) would also help, since farmers wouldn't be able to unload gold. Making it so that people have no choice but to go through the AH/RMAH (when it's up) and then securing that (locking by region extremely strictly, putting very tight monetary restrictions on how much can be cashed out, etc) would be the best option I think.

I don't know about you but the repair is already a gold sink for me.

I can ONLY farm warden and when i draw the shit end of the stick with elites my repairs end up being 60% of what i make.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Ah, RNG how do you love teasing me.

Got a Tal Rasha's breastplate today, but the roll was bad =/

 

[Einbroch]

This is stupid, what dreamworld are you guys in where glass cannon builds arent taking part in less defense? You think we are running around blowing shit up and not dying? Glass cannons die ALOT, ranged dies ALOT, and they will even more with the changes to things like Mortar discussed in that post that will prevent them from being able to cheese their way out of facing the consequences of low survivability. Especially if they dont adapt and cede a ton of that dps for survivability stats post patch.

The reality that my 30 hours played DH dies less than my 80 hours played Monk.

Not that this argument matters. I've shelved my Monk for good and only wish I didn't waste the hours and would have rolled DH from the start.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

They could increase repair costs ten fold and the gold would still be trivial. Trivial compared to trying to out-spend monks for +dex and resistance gear that will only allow for a few more hits anyway.

The problem is our main stat, not the enemies we're up against. Relying on dodge when you die in two or three hits is ridiculous when every other class gets a straight defensive buff from their main stat. Replacing Smoke Screen for Shadow Power is basically just swapping one "if I run out of discipline I'm dead" tactic for another. We don't have nearly enough options.

That's why they are adjusting mob damage, too. It's not going to benefit only melee classes. The goal is to let ranged users focus on survivability, too.

 

[Alex]

It's a start, but it's not a change I feel should really go live without melee gaining more DPS along with it. Seems silly to give more boons to range while melee will still likely be stuck struggling in that same niche.

 

[pigeon]

Exactly. These changes are good, but these have nothing to do with melee vs ranged.

I don't think I agree. Multiple people in this thread have said "once you get past a certain bar, melee is lots of fun to play in inferno, it's just that that bar is really high." Shifting that bar down is exactly the right change in that case.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It's a start, but it's not a change I feel should really go live without melee gaining more DPS along with it. Seems silly to give more boons to range while melee will still likely be stuck struggling in that same niche.

How can you tell before it goes live? Depending on how much more survivable melee become as a result, they may be able to focus more of their gear on stuff that increases damage.

 

[LordCanti]

That's why they are adjusting mob damage, too. It's not going to benefit only melee classes. The goal is to let ranged users focus on survivability, too.

"While before the damage was so large it just felt pointless to try and mitigate any of it at all, after the change hopefully ranged classes will think "well, if I just put on a modest amount of survivability, I don't get 1-shot, so that's worth it."

I don't get 1-shot...so that's worth tens of millions of gold (for resist all/dex/vit/IAS gear)? When I could just do 100k plus crit damage, like DH's are already doing, and use the tools available (smokescreen, tumble, etc) to avoid being hit?

=/

 

[Goodacre0081]

I think you could easily beat Act 1 and farm the Butcher with those stats if you just change out your skills.

You need more defense. Tough as Nails (or maybe Nerves of Steel with your vitality) and War Cry (either + Armor Rune or + Resistance Rune if you have decent resists already) should definitely be in your set. They should bring your Armor up to over 6000. After that you probably want some resists.

I'm not a fan of Bash so I would definitely switch it with Cleave or Frenzy (+ Sidearm).

If you don't mind a bit of kiting, you should be able to get by pretty easily by switching in Seismic Slam (+ reduced cost Rune) for your secondary attack. Throw on Sprint (+ Marathon) if you need more mobility options.

Also, I don't see how you're getting any use out of Pound of Flesh, honestly. So I'd swap it for another skill that either gives more defense or more DPS (extra critical hits and damage is always nice).

I do normally go with the skills/passives your suggesting but I switched it up last night to some lesser used ones when i was redoing act4. I normally go with this crit build or this for survivability/bosses. I guess i need to spend some gold on the AH.

 

[pigeon]

"While before the damage was so large it just felt pointless to try and mitigate any of it at all, after the change hopefully ranged classes will think "well, if I just put on a modest amount of survivability, I don't get 1-shot, so that's worth it."

I don't get 1-shot...so that's worth tens of millions of gold (for resist all/dex/vit/IAS gear)? When I could just do 100k plus crit damage, like DH's are already doing, and use the tools available (smokescreen, tumble, etc) to avoid being hit?

=/

Aren't these the same DHs who are complaining about how cheap the enemies that hide or leap or spawn on top of you are, though, because then they can't avoid getting one-shot?

 

[Shouta]

The fact that ranged still will do a lot more damage than melee? How are these changes going to help with that? All these changes minus the Mortar ones help ranged as well.

DH/WD/Wiz have some very impressive damage but the melees aren't really slouches. It's just a matter of having to balance survival in there to be able to deal with it that's the issue. A monk that stacks buffs/debuffs with SSS does pretty wild damage for example. The sustained DPS on a monk is nothing to scoff at either, Conviction, Sweeping Wind, etc really add up like crazy.

 

[goldensun]

So I was farming (that's all I've been doing for days now), and I just got this.

I burst out laughing at the damage. This has to be the worst rare I've farmed in Inferno yet. Such garbage :/ Funny stats too.

 

[Wallach]

"While before the damage was so large it just felt pointless to try and mitigate any of it at all, after the change hopefully ranged classes will think "well, if I just put on a modest amount of survivability, I don't get 1-shot, so that's worth it."

I don't get 1-shot...so that's worth tens of millions of gold (for resist all/dex/vit/IAS gear)? When I could just do 100k plus crit damage, like DH's are already doing, and use the tools available (smokescreen, tumble, etc) to avoid being hit?

=/

The catch is that it's almost impossible to avoid being hit. Glass cannon builds die constantly, the only difference is that they still get to move forward because they're killing quite a lot between deaths. Come 1.03 any of these glass cannon setups that are still getting one-shot killed are going to be a lot less profitable. They'll still be viable, but the goal right now is to make a lot more playstyles viable, not specifically kill that one. The way they're going about their changes makes me a lot more confident that they do get it.

 

[Hazaro]

If I win anything please hold it, I'll be at MLG

 

[cpp_is_king]

Extra repairs aren't enough of a gold sink. The method these farmers are using doesn't involve a lot of deaths.

Honestly, they need to restrict access to the RMAH from overseas, or just get rid of global play altogether. Putting a temporary halt to gold transfers (via the "trade" window) would also help, since farmers wouldn't be able to unload gold. Making it so that people have no choice but to go through the AH/RMAH (when it's up) and then securing that (locking by region extremely strictly, putting very tight monetary restrictions on how much can be cashed out, etc) would be the best option I think.

The changes have nothing to do with being a goldsink and are totally unrelated to the gold farmers

 

[LordCanti]

The catch is that it's almost impossible to avoid being hit. Glass cannon builds die constantly, the only difference is that they still get to move forward because they're killing quite a lot between deaths. Come 1.03 any of these glass cannon setups that are still getting one-shot killed are going to be a lot less profitable. They'll still be viable, but the goal right now is to make a lot more playstyles viable, not specifically kill that one. The way they're going about their changes makes me a lot more confident that they do get it.

Maybe I just have more gold than most, but the repair bill from deaths doesn't even come close to what I pull in from drops. Granted I do the chest/goblin/etc runs, but if I had the DPS for champ runs, I can't imagine the bills piling up so high that it would be worth it to me to sacrifice DPS for "survivability".

When you're trying to chip away at 4 million HP (times three or four guys in the mob), being able to take an extra hit or two isn't hugely important. I have a feeling that one mortar barrage is still going to do in most DH's, survivability gear or not (even after this patch).

The changes have nothing to do with being a goldsink and are totally unrelated to the gold farmers

Yeah, I explained in a subsequent post why I thought that was the topic at hand (odd browser bug putting posts out of place).