Support NeoGAF

[ComputerMKII]

Will these stats be enough to go through Act IV Hell?

 

[Nibel]

Playing Inferno as a monk is really.. meh.

 

[suko_32]

Really starting to hate those licker things in inferno Act III. I'm going to play a few ladder games in Starcraft 2 to relax. WTF, that shouldn't even make sense.

 

[eek5]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oUwu46qrJM

Can WW be viable again? This guy combines the Sprint w/ the rune that leaves tornadoes behind and WW that leaves tornadoes :lol

 

[V_Arnold]

Really starting to hate those licker things in inferno Act III. I'm going to play a few ladder games in Starcraft 2 to relax. WTF, that shouldn't even make sense.

Haha, post of the day!

 

[Fularu]

It's ridiculous how fast you can clear Butcher after you're geared for Act 3. Even when I swap out 80% of my gear with garbage that has nothing but MF on it I can steamroll through the entire thing with 200 base MF (not including NV) and get about 15 yellows in 30 minutes.

Even though it's extremely rare to find anything that sells for more than a few hundred k, I'm wondering if this is actually the most efficient way to farm still.

Certainly once iLvl 63 items start dropping in Act I, Butcher will be hands down the most efficient farming spot. I can do ZK and Belial, but it takes like 45 min and I can't wear near as much MF gear so you end up with maybe only 5-6 yellows / run.

I've geared my enchantress up to where she does about 5.5k dps and uses a 1050 dmg 2 hander, so she sometimes walks up to groups of enemies (which I've drawn in with Ground Stomp / Wrenching Smash) and she literally just explodes the entire pack.

Best farming route for me has been "Start game, go to Leoric's manor, kill adds in full MF gear, restart"

Takes less than a minute, I never go outside, half the time there's a Champ/Elite pack" and there's always a regular chest. In an hour I got something like 40 yellows and 300-400k gold.

And by full MF, I mean less than 100 MF/MG combined.

 

[elrechazado]

Will these stats be enough to go through Act IV Hell?

http://i.imgur.com/z2fR7.jpg[/IG][/QUOTE]

easily

 

[ElyrionX]

Scy made this point earlier in the thread, but it bears repeating. Resistance and armor are multiplied together, so, pretending that you have a finite amount of "defensive stats" that you can divide between resistance and armor, you get the best result by balancing the two. (Because it's a square.) 10 armor = 1 resist assuming that your current damage reduction from armor and damage reduction from the relevant resistance are equal; otherwise, the one that's lower will give you a better return, increasing the bigger the difference is.

This makes no sense mathematically.

The formuale for damage received is (1 - damage reduction from armor) * (1 - damage reduction from resist).

So if you have 50% of damage reduction to spread across evenly between both that would be:

(1 - 0.25) * (1 - 0.25) = 0.5625 damage received

But if you pump it all into either armor or resist, you get

(1 - 0.5) * (1 - 0) = 0.5 damage received

So clearly in a scenario where you have to decide on damage reduction allocations, it makes sense to focus on one stat.

 

[KKRT00]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spMS3Hhk1FA

You must be fucking kidding me! Blizzard is a joke, seriously complete joke.

--edit--
I see that it was posted, still fucking incredible. It should have own topic.

 

[spirity]

Exactly how are people getting globs of money? I am lvl 29 and I keep getting horrible drops.

It doesn't get any better later on, I'm level 38 and I keep getting horrible drops.

murphy's law.

It's more than murphy's law at work I'm afraid, it's designed this way. I love the actual gameplay in D3, its solid and fun. The loot is bland and uninspired however, and the loot was what made me play D2 for so long. I'm already coming to the end of my D3 days because of the poor loot. When the loot isn't compelling, there goes a big reason to keep playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4peeO3yzY&list=UUzBIzJUeMJ_L4CIthuoBJbQ

 

[syllogism]

Of all the things to be outraged about, that must be single most pathetic one. It's a non-issue and doesn't hurt you in any way, so you should find it amusing, that's about it

 

[StrongArmSteady]

Will these stats be enough to go through Act IV Hell?

LOL! more than enough, should see you through act 1 inferno

 

[Rufus]

Of all the things to be outraged about, that must be single most pathetic one.

The bar for what passes as outrage (or any strong emotion) is really low on the Internet, considering LOL doesn't even translate to a chuckle most of the time.

 

[Sarcasm]

I can't beat Diablo in Normal...anybody want to help me?

 

[eek5]

This makes no sense mathematically.

The formuale for damage received is (1 - damage reduction from armor) * (1 - damage reduction from resist).

So if you have 50% of damage reduction to spread across evenly between both that would be:

(1 - 0.25) * (1 - 0.25) = 0.5625 damage received

But if you pump it all into either armor or resist, you get

(1 - 0.5) * (1 - 0) = 0.5 damage received

So clearly in a scenario where you have to decide on damage reduction allocations, it makes sense to focus on one stat.

I think one thing to consider is that it costs more to get from 25% DR to 50% DR than it would cost to get the 2nd resist to 25% DR. For example you get 75% DR at ~7k armor. To get to 80% DR you'd need another 4k armor.

You could instead get 700 resists and get another 75% DR for probably the same cost (probably cheaper in reality) as upgrading all the pieces to gain another 4k armor.

The difference would be:
(1 - 0.8) * (1 - 0) = 0.2 damage received

vs

(1 - 0.75) * (1 - 0.75) = 0.0625 damage received

 

[Opiate]

This makes no sense mathematically.

The formuale for damage received is (1 - damage reduction from armor) * (1 - damage reduction from resist).

So if you have 50% of damage reduction to spread across evenly between both that would be:

(1 - 0.25) * (1 - 0.25) = 0.5625 damage received

But if you pump it all into either armor or resist, you get

(1 - 0.5) * (1 - 0) = 0.5 damage received

So clearly in a scenario where you have to decide on damage reduction allocations, it makes sense to focus on one stat.

The percentage increases don't scale linearly -- that's your problem here. That is, going from 0-25% in one defensive statistic has a significantly lower opportunity cost than going from 25-50%.

 

[eek5]

I can't beat Diablo in Normal...anybody want to help me?

US? what's your tag?

 

[Sarcasm]

US? what's your tag?

Yes NA, I don't remember my tag at all. I am in game how do I figure out?

 

[MrDaravon]

Best farming route for me has been "Start game, go to Leoric's manor, kill adds in full MF gear, restart"

Takes less than a minute, I never go outside, half the time there's a Champ/Elite pack" and there's always a regular chest. In an hour I got something like 40 yellows and 300-400k gold.

And by full MF, I mean less than 100 MF/MG combined.

So you're starting at The Imprisoned Angel, running back into the manor, killing everything, and just restarting? Interesting. May pick up some cheap MF gear and give that a go, level 60 DH and hit the usual Act 2 wall that most people have, and any upgrades are extradoinarily expensive for me right, kinda trying to figure out what to do here.

 

[eek5]

Yes NA, I don't remember my tag at all. I am in game how do I figure out?

go social menu and hit add friend and it should say your tag there

 

[Sarcasm]

go social menu and hit add friend and it should say your tag there

PM'd you

 

[Fularu]

So you're starting at The Imprisoned Angel, running back into the manor, killing everything, and just restarting? Interesting. May pick up some cheap MF gear and give that a go, level 60 DH and hit the usual Act 2 wall that most people have, and any upgrades are extradoinarily expensive for me right, kinda trying to figure out what to do here.

Yeah I noticed the effectiveness by doing Leoric Manor runs for the shinbone. It's like, impossible to die. Sure no gobs or resplendant chests, but getting 1-2 rares every two runs makes it worthwhile. You can add a minute and go outside for the random 1-2 champ packs that spawn at the manor's entrance, could be even more effective.

 

[V_Arnold]

Of all the things to be outraged about, that must be single most pathetic one. It's a non-issue and doesn't hurt you in any way, so you should find it amusing, that's about it

But it is KKRT00, that is what he does in Blizz threads

 

[Opiate]

It's more than murphy's law at work I'm afraid, it's designed this way. I love the actual gameplay in D3, its solid and fun. The loot is bland and uninspired however, and the loot was what made me play D2 for so long. I'm already coming to the end of my D3 days because of the poor loot. When the loot isn't compelling, there goes a big reason to keep playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4peeO3yzY&list=UUzBIzJUeMJ_L4CIthuoBJbQ

I agree the legendaries are weak at the moment, but I see no issue with the variability of statistical properties. In Diablo 3, as a Demon Hunter, I juggle all these statistics as significant, major components of my build:

Vitality
Dexterity
Critical Hit Chance
Critical Hit Damage
Attack Speed
Armor
Resist All
Physical Resist
%Life
Hatred Generation
Movement Speed
Max Discipline

I consider these valuable secondary statistics:

Magic Find
Gold Find
Intellect (+Resists)
Strength (+Armor)
On Hit effects (stun, freeze, etc).
Reduce Control Impairing Effects
%Damage to skills

This is without getting in to statistics that are not useful to me but can be to others, such as gold radius, life on hit and health globe, which work off a few passive abilities in the game. There is no dearth of statistical variety.

 

[Fularu]

But it is KKRT00, that is what he does in Blizz threads

While never finding any flaw, no matter how glaring, in PoE

 

[MrDaravon]

Yeah I noticed the effectiveness by doing Leoric Manor runs for the shinbone. It's like, impossible to die. Sure no gobs or resplendant chests, but getting 1-2 rares every two runs makes it worthwhile. You can add a minute and go outside for the random 1-2 champ packs that spawn at the manor's entrance, could be even more effective.

Yeah I'm going to give that a go in a minute here, even with dropping stats for shitty MF/GF gear those enemies are easy enough where I don't think it'll really matter.

 

[Neki]

So I was thinking about giving away 650 dps one handers and 1000 dps two handers in this thread, not sure how many people would actually need it though, with how flooded the market is with those kind of weapons.

 

[Number45]

It's more than murphy's law at work I'm afraid, it's designed this way. I love the actual gameplay in D3, its solid and fun. The loot is bland and uninspired however, and the loot was what made me play D2 for so long. I'm already coming to the end of my D3 days because of the poor loot. When the loot isn't compelling, there goes a big reason to keep playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4peeO3yzY&list=UUzBIzJUeMJ_L4CIthuoBJbQ

That video says life on hit is a wasted stat. Fair enough other than that.

 

[spirity]

I agree the legendaries are weak at the moment, but I see no issue with the variability of statistical properties. In Diablo 3, as a Demon Hunter, I juggle all these statistics as significant, major components of my build:

Vitality
Dexterity
Critical Hit Chance
Critical Hit Damage
Attack Speed
Armor
Resist All
Physical Resist
%Life
Hatred Generation
Movement Speed
Max Discipline

I consider these valuable secondary statistics:

Magic Find
Gold Find
Intellect (+Resists)
Strength (+Armor)
On Hit effects (stun, freeze, etc).
Reduce Control Impairing Effects
%Damage to skills

This is without getting in to statistics that are not useful to me but can be to others, such as gold radius, life on hit and health globe, which work off a few passive abilities in the game. There is no dearth of statistical variety.

Well, I'm only in Hell, but see little reason to progress. 99% of the gear I loot is vendor fodder, either being unsuitable for my class (which is ok), loot is almost half my level (especially annoying when its a rare). When I do get an upgrade its so minor I'm completely underwhelmed and it usually is at the cost of something else. Gaining 50 str and losing 500hp is common. There are no fun mods on anything I pick up, though I did see something with +5 to rage once. +5, for goodness sake!

I came across a Legendary at lvl 20. The lvl on the item? 8. I was lucky of course, most people haven't seen any, and thats to say nothing of the set items.

The loot has been excel spreadsheeted to death to ensure you are never overpowered at any given point. While this makes sense for Blizzard, the game is supposed to be fun.

Loot is not fun at all in D3.

Torchlight 2. Drops at level 6. While that is probably a little too much (they could do with saving the more interesting stuff til later on) and I understand Blizzard don't want omgwtf loot dropping at lvl 1, there is a balance that could have been struck. Blizzard had 4 years to get the loot right. Why isn't there cool stuff like evolving weapons in Diablo 3? It's a loot centric game and they dropped the ball epically in this regard.

 

[KKRT00]

While never finding any flaw, no matter how glaring, in PoE

Yep, exactly like that ...

But it is KKRT00, that is what he does in Blizz threads

I understand, its my fault that they've released broken game and that they need weeks to patch simple things.

Ps. And i dont think i have more than 10% negative posts in this OT about D3, but hey i only complain.

 

[Ashodin]

Loot is absurdly underpowered. And the game feels more grindy than I'd like too.
And honestly, I'd like the loot to be like borderlands. Changes your usage of skills.

 

[fluffydelusions]

If anyone is a member of reddit can you please upvote this article. I'm tired of not being able to play this game and also tired of Blizzard ignoring everyone on tech support forum regarding it:

There are tons of threads on this issue and probably 10 of them have reached maximum posts and still not one blue response.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/uujyq/blizzard_continues_to_ignore_that_patch_102/

 

[Wallach]

This is without getting in to statistics that are not useful to me but can be to others, such as gold radius, life on hit and health globe, which work off a few passive abilities in the game. There is no dearth of statistical variety.

I don't think the actual number of properties is Diablo 3's problem, necessarily. I think the problem is more that there really isn't any interesting ways to manipulate their character's gameplay through different properties. That is, pretty much every class has a significant grip of stats that are valuable to their class as a whole - and truthfully that is the vast majority of stats in the game aside from the primary stats that do not function for their class - and all you really do is pile them on wherever possibly. The way these stats interact with your characters is a very boring, predictable curve.

Diablo 2 didn't really have this problem. There were a lot of properties that were much more rare and hard to get but had enormous ramifications on your character; not just in an overall character build sense but in terms of second-to-second gameplay. Even before Runewords, you had simple things like a single slot making you completely immune to being affected by freeze. A unique maul might have terrible stats compared to that rare you found ten levels later but is still vastly more powerful in some cases simply because of the one Crushing Blow stat it carries. An Amazon holding a Buriza-Do Kyanon has a completely different experience to one holding a rare version of the same base bow.

It's easy to blame this entirely on the Legendary situation, but Diablo 3 should have launched in a state even better than Diablo 2 post-LoD (which includes ideas like inventory-based stat modification, Runewords and refined sets) in this regard and instead it feels like it falls immensely short of even launch Diablo 2.

Diablo 3 desperately needs an injection of loot properties that feels like something more than an adding coins to a jar already full of change.

 

[MrDaravon]

Yeah I'm going to give that a go in a minute here, even with dropping stats for shitty MF/GF gear those enemies are easy enough where I don't think it'll really matter.

So this is going really poorly actually so far; in order to get up to ~80-90% MF/GF my DPS without SS dropped to like 16k which is fine except both inside and outside of the manor I am 99% of the time running into jacked up elite mobs that I literally cannot kill. Starting to get really tired of the wall I'm hitting with this game, I need literally millions of gold for incremental upgrades and I have no feasible way of getting it without grinding for weeks.

 

[rCIZZLE]

I'd also like to add that crafting in D2 actually had possible outcomes that were unavailable as drops such as up to 19fcr on amulets. I would have liked to see the same thing this time around.

 

[Neki]

So this is going really poorly actually so far; in order to get up to ~80-90% MF/GF my DPS without SS dropped to like 16k which is fine except both inside and outside of the manor I am 99% of the time running into jacked up elite mobs that I literally cannot kill. Starting to get really tired of the wall I'm hitting with this game, I need literally millions of gold for incremental upgrades and I have no feasible way of getting it without grinding for weeks.

That's why you dps them down to 1% and switch to full mf gear besides your weapon.

 

[spirity]

Loot is absurdly underpowered. And the game feels more grindy than I'd like too.
And honestly, I'd like the loot to be like borderlands. Changes your usage of skills.

In terms of loot, Diablo 3 is the worst of all the Diablo clones. It's something Blizzard ought to be doing better than anyone else, yet they aren't.

 

[ElyrionX]

I think one thing to consider is that it costs more to get from 25% DR to 50% DR than it would cost to get the 2nd resist to 25% DR. For example you get 75% DR at ~7k armor. To get to 80% DR you'd need another 4k armor.

You could instead get 700 resists and get another 75% DR for probably the same cost (probably cheaper in reality) as upgrading all the pieces to gain another 4k armor.

The difference would be:
(1 - 0.8) * (1 - 0) = 0.2 damage received

vs

(1 - 0.75) * (1 - 0.75) = 0.0625 damage received

No I get this. But I am saying that it is a flawed argument to say that balancing the two stats would be the optimal solution because the two stats are a product of each other. Mathematically, that is incorrect and it would be best to focus on one stat exclusively till you reach the point where cost-benefit argument breaks down for it in relation to the second stat.

 

[MrDaravon]

That's why you dps them down to 1% and switch to full mf gear besides your weapon.

With the gear I have now, which is all I can reasonably afford, I get by okay on Act 1 but I will die in one second if I even try to switch equipment.

 

[fluffydelusions]

In terms of loot, Diablo 3 is the worst of all the Diablo clones. It's something Blizzard ought to be doing better than anyone else, yet they aren't.

How is TL2 in this regard? TBH, I've heard nothing but good things regarding TL2 so far.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

Loot is absurdly underpowered. And the game feels more grindy than I'd like too.
And honestly, I'd like the loot to be like borderlands. Changes your usage of skills.

Borderlands, really? I literally used one gun for over 1/3 of the game...

 

[eek5]

No I get this. But I am saying that it is a flawed argument to say that balancing the two stats would be the optimal solution because the two stats are a product of each other. Mathematically, that is incorrect and it would be best to focus on one stat exclusively till you reach the point where cost-benefit argument breaks down for it in relation to the second stat.

Honestly the breakpoint at which the opportunity cost for balancing the two reductions rather than dumping into just a single one is better happens at such a low level that I'd argue saying balancing the two stats being optimal is not misleading or flawed at all. For the majority of players it will be true.

 

[Wallach]

Honestly the breakpoint at which the opportunity cost for balancing the two reductions rather than dumping into just a single one is better happens at such a low level that I'd argue saying balancing the two stats being optimal is not misleading or flawed at all. For the majority of players it will be true.

I think that's pretty much right. Especially at level cap, the "chunks" of stats you're talking about are enough even per-item that assuming the two were even close they'd probably flip on a per-item basis.

 

[Negator]

This is worth about 600k right?

 

[spirity]

How is TL2 in this regard? TBH, I've heard nothing but good things regarding TL2 so far.

Overshooting the mark, in my opinion. You've got really interesting stuff dropping right from the off, but I think they should be slimming it down and saving the good stuff until at least the halfway mark of the 'normal' playthrough. But the loot is exciting in TL2, you're always looking forward to looting chests and downing bosses.

You should always give the player a taste of whats to come. Downing Diablo in D3 on the normal run should net you a guaranteed legendary or set item. By doing that, you signal to the player there is more than just blues and yellows dropping in the higher difficulties. It gives you an added incentive to try Nightmare, Hell and Inferno. It's a carrot, but it needs to be offered. (Of course, you then have to adjust loot tables to ensure that quality of item does actually drop in those difficulties too).

 

[Fularu]

So this is going really poorly actually so far; in order to get up to ~80-90% MF/GF my DPS without SS dropped to like 16k which is fine except both inside and outside of the manor I am 99% of the time running into jacked up elite mobs that I literally cannot kill. Starting to get really tired of the wall I'm hitting with this game, I need literally millions of gold for incremental upgrades and I have no feasible way of getting it without grinding for weeks.

I'm killing everything just fine with 17k dps and 27k life /shrug. I use the same gear to do butcher runs, I guess your resists are still too low (you can easily find MF/GF/Res all gear for cheap)

 

[Ashodin]

Overshooting the mark, in my opinion. You've got really interesting stuff dropping right from the off, but I think they should be slimming it down and saving the good stuff until at least the halfway mark of the 'normal' playthrough. But the loot is exciting in TL2, you're always looking forward to looting chests and downing bosses.

You should always give the player a taste of whats to come. Downing Diablo in D3 on the normal run should net you a guaranteed legendary or set item. By doing that, you signal to the player there is more than just blues and yellows dropping in the higher difficulties. It gives you an added incentive to try Nightmare, Hell and Inferno. It's a carrot, but it needs to be offered. (Of course, you then have to adjust loot tables to ensure that quality of item does actually drop in those difficulties too).

I agree with this. But there's no guarantee of legendary at all. I haven't ever seen one personally! Andi'm in inferno for Christs sakes. You get that? I've played through the game four times and no legendary.

 

[fluffydelusions]

I agree with this. But there's no guarantee of legendary at all. I haven't ever seen one personally! Andi'm in inferno for Christs sakes. You get that? I've played through the game four times and no legendary.

I've seen 1 and it sucked. =\

 

[MrDaravon]

I'm killing everything just fine with 17k dps and 27k life /shrug. I use the same gear to do butcher runs, I guess your resists are still too low (you can easily find MF/GF/Res all gear for cheap)

Yeah, I only looked for cheap MF/GF, I'll tack All Resist on that and see what I can do.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Sold my first item for 50,000. Feels good man.

Can't spend it on shit though, need to find more of these stupid blacksmith/jeweler pages.