Actually only on 3 or 4 pieces, that's just Hard Target + Keen Eye.
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Diablo III |OT4| Antiques Roadshow: Sanctuary Edition
- Thread starter CarbonatedFalcon
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Actually only on 3 or 4 pieces, that's just Hard Target + Keen Eye.
Yeah, that kind of is. I've never seen a monk with it that high. Isn't that like barb levels of high? Seriously is everything you're wearing got +armor on it? You are running hard target right?
EDIT:
Oooooh, keen eye. Yeah I used to run that, but I switched to concussion, which I feel does a bit more with damage mitigation, especially when you're running in a group.
Starting a new alt, gonna try out DH this time. Is low level blacksmithing worth doing yet? Or should I just stick to using the AH to twink.
The build I used for inferno Act IV was dual wield, 10k+ armour with keen eye, 900+ resist. You don't need to sacrifice anything, I avoided that at all costs. If I was open to a shield I would be up at 11k+ armour and 1k resists.
cpp_is_king
Member
Indeed, and that's exactly the point. It SHOULD be a tradeoff. You SHOULD have to give up stats here and there to stack MF. It SHOULD be difficult / impossible to get 350 MF in Act 3
Woo-Fu
Banned
I've done it both ways. I was manually swapping for quite some time but eventually moved over to autohotkey. It saves a tiny bit of time and mouse wear&tear. Even with a macro it is a headache, though. If people have a problem with this type of automation they need to express it directly instead of using magic find---or any other mechanic---as their scapegoat.
...and hey, if they want to make it easier for us, I'm all for that, as long as their solution doesn't reduce the magic find I currently have when I kill the last elite in a pack. I get 3-4 rares per pack, I'm not interested in going back to 1 rare per pack. There is nothing inherently entertaining in killing the same mobs over and over again that would make me happy to have to do it 3-4x times as much to get the same reward I currently experience.
I think the odds of them choosing a "fix" like that are slim and none, though. I'd rather have the headache and the increased magic find than lose both.
Lastly, let's be honest: The post-60 game is mostly tedium. One farm run after another, playing a virtual slot machine. If the RMAH wasn't paying for computer upgrades I probably would have backburnered diablo3 already, only revisiting at each major patch/expansion.
That's the highest I've ever seen a monk hit on armor.
edit: Missed that it was post Keen eye boost.
ihearthawthats
Banned
i agree. as someone who rocks "perma" gf/mf gear, i can only farm act 1 comfortably so far. act2 is doable, but not comfortably especially after the repair costs patch. it should be possible to farm act4 with mf/gf gear, but tbh only by the 1%. random joes should not be able to farm act4 with mf by gear swapping imo. at least not until they release the next expansion with a ton of powercreep.
cpp_is_king
Member
I get 2-4 rares every single time without swapping anything. This is with maybe 50 MF before NV
It's possible to get close to 10k before Keen Eye though, just with Hard Target and Dex from gear.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Actually it isn't a problem for me at all, i have a magic find suit. Keep trying to make it a problem for me and keep wondering why I'm not pleased with your desire to fix something that isn't broken in the first place.
READ MY LIPS: THIS GEAR DOES NOT EVEN EXIST, AT ANY PRICE.
In over 400 hours of play on my witch doctor, visiting the auction house multiple times a day I have never seen a helm like I have now + magic find + a socket. Never. Not once. At any given time there are only 3-4 helmets like this on the auction house at all. The stats aren't even that great, it is the combination of stats that is rare. I'm not even sure there are enough "slots" to create a magic find helm of this nature with a socket.
Gear swapping is the only option. If you remove that option then you reduce the longterm viability of the build I use and the class I use it with. Meanwhile the classes/builds that only rely upon 3 or 4 stats can find magic find gear no problem.
They're complaining that blizzard is going to take something they enjoy away from the game. That's different than demanding the game be changed just for their idea of fairness like what the MF-switch-hate group is doing.
It was a mechanic that was in D2 for over a decade and D2 is the best the genre has ever seen. MF switch is fine... it's an option that people can fit into their playstyle if they want. It's not exclusively a stat trade-off. Maybe for the people who are too lazy to switch gear it is but for the rest it isn't. If anything it helps the economy by having some players buy another set of gear.
Yeah, they obviously won't have a fix like that. You want to keep all the benefits without any of the tradeoffs and somehow want their fix (which is inherently supposed to make sure there are tradeoffs) will not address that? That's kind of crazy. Right now you're gaming the system, pure and simple. The awards you currently experience and want to keep are overinflated. They're not what you should be getting. If they're going to follow that route they should just shut off the gear swap shit and bump up the entire drop rate. I'd rather have that than what you're proposing, which is just stupid and keeps a stupid mechanic in.
It's decent early on, yeah. The AH is probably still better, but you might need to spend a little more time hunting for bargains and bidsniping to make it more cost effective (especially as a DH -- the good stuff can get pretty pricey). Crafting gets steadily worse as more affixes start rolling, though, and is pretty pointless by nightmare.
Woo-Fu
Banned
I have mid-50s MF before NV and I do not get 2-4 rares every single time with my base gear. Doesn't happen. 1 is the usual, 2 is quite common, 3 is a rarity and I've seen 4 once or twice.
I guess it does make a difference. My MF is ~250% with 5 stacks and I usually see 2-3 rares every elite pack. 1 is very rare. 4 has happened a few times (and I guarantee I don't play nearly as much as you).
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I agree, sorta. That's what I wanted before the game even came out (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=465944), but since they already put it in the game, I'm not sure if outright removing it completely would be a good idea. Would the ensuing shitstorm be worth it for the longterm integrity of the game?
ihearthawthats
Banned
you don't need every single stat on every single piece of gear.
the problem i have with gear swapping is that it becomes the "best" build because it is "all" builds at the same time. it removes variety. i mean yeah you can say those who want to rock mf legitly still can and those that don't want to bother with mf gear swapping still can do that as well, but its not fun to gimp yourself on purpose. both those options are inferior to gear swapping, which is having the best of both worlds.
Woo-Fu
Banned
You say "gaming the system" like it is a bad thing. Seeking out the optimal playstyle/mechanics is a huge aspect of games like this. Without it you're just Pavlov's dog.
Determining that swapping to an MF suit before killing the last elite is an effective way to acquire more rare drops isn't any different than determining that life on hit works better with Acid Cloud than it does with Rain of Toads. I'm gaming the system by choosing Acid Cloud over Rain of toads.
It is called maximizing the return on your investment.
Getting 3 rares per pack is more fun than getting 1. I don't really understand people wanting to make the game less fun, just to remove a mechanic that most of them state they don't use in the first place?
Lastly, every time you say "the way it was intended" you lose me. Multiple people had input into the creation of the game and it is quite obvious that a) they didn't share exactly the same vision and b) that that vision has changed significantly over time. If you want to argue that they didn't intend for us to have magic find suits then I would counter with, "why does gear exist that only has magic find?". If you want to argue that they didn't want us to switch gear in combat then I would counter with, "then why is it an option in the first place?" In any case, using what you believe were their intentions at some arbitrary point in time as your defense for changing something doesn't wash with me. It makes it sound like you know what they intended better than they did, since after all the game doesn't match what you're saying their intentions were. How could that be?
I'm surprised they didn't suggest changing Neph Valor to be a multiplier of your current gear MF/GF rating, display that value as a Buff above the ability icon and then changing a piece of gear reduces a player's stack by 1 and then increase the amount of Neph Stacks above the 5 that currently exist. Still not a solution, but I wouldn't have been surprised to see them completely redo one mechanic in an attempt to fix another.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It's like they took all the combined experience from running Diablo 2 endgame for 10 years and learned absolutely nothing from it.
Blizzard has a pretty bad track record at learning new stuff and actually implementing it.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That shield is ass.
It reminds me of how Square ran Final fantasy 11 for 8 years and learned absolutely nothing from that, either, when they made Final Fantasy 14.
It reminds me of how Square ran Final fantasy 11 for 8 years and learned absolutely nothing from that, either, when they made Final Fantasy 14.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Good luck finding mana regen for a witch doctor on anything other than a ceremonial knife, voodoo mask, mojo or legendary.
Good luck duplicating the magic find you can have on a socketed helmet with any other non-legendary item.
So yes, you don't need every stat on every item, but in those cases where certain stats are only on certain items you don't really have a choice, at least not if your intention is to spend your time farming in Inferno instead of in Hell.
Go to the US gold auction house right now, tell me how many helms have 18 base MF, a socket, and 11 mana regen.
Here, let me answer it for you: ZERO.
I've just sacrificed the int, resist all, and crit chance I have on my current helm(along with mana regen and a couple other things) in this search to find a magic find helm... and I still come up empty.
I think a better example would be the people who had Life After Kill swaps for Hydra healing.
Edit: Or perhaps Health Globe swaps before grabbing Health Globes.
I use it because I "have to" use it. It's more a case of the flaw of Magic Find itself than the system, though. MF% is really good and useful for speeding up the effective return on farming but the higher emphasis on stats also means that it's harder to utilize it until you severely overgear content. What ends up happening is that working around the system entirely is the best way to go about things and it's, quite frankly, a bit annoying to do constantly.
But ... it's also the best returns so not doing it is a bit foolish.
cpp_is_king
Member
Now maybe everyone can shut up.
Eh, who am I kidding
Now maybe everyone can shut up.
Eh, who am I kidding
It's still a nerf if you have a lot of MF on switch.
Aren't you grateful?
It was a much more interesting shield back in early inferno before the IAS nerf. I used to have one for bosses/difficult elites. It would allow me to increase defense without sacrificing attack excessively. But with the IAS halved, it's shit.
I know next to nothing on shields. Is this worth anything?
It was a much more interesting shield back in early inferno before the IAS nerf. I used to have one for bosses/difficult elites. It would allow me to increase defense without sacrificing attack excessively. But with the IAS halved, it's shit.
Well, to be fair, the problem is that "buff it somehow" isn't that concrete. I mean, let's say they end up with the removal of swapping entirely somehow and add +5% to NV and +2-5% to all MF% possible rolls. Is that realistically a solution?
Yeah, searching out the optimal playstyle/mechanics is huge. People will min/max in this game, and that's why I find it baffling that they didn't know people would do this crap beforehand, or at least didn't realize the extent at which people would do it. They're idiots, I guess. But the other thing is that this is a sort of competitive online game. If a lot of people are gaming the system to maximize the return on their investment, then nearly everyone has to. If I don't swap my gear then I'm purposefully gimping myself. I can't compete with you. It is hands down the best way to do things, and that's shitty, because it's a really really shitty mechanic that circumvents most of the point in the stat and itemization system.
Your gameplay example doesn't hold water. Yeah it works with life on hit, but there are plenty of other ways to use skills and use them just as well in other builds. There really aren't many or any other ways to compete with having the defacto best farming equipment coupled with the best MF equipment, mainly because it was never supposed to be that way. You have little to no trade offs.
We don't use it because that mechanic is less fun (and cheating if you actually use a hotkey). The problem is that if it continues to stay in the game we have to use it to compete. Again, how in hell am I supposed to compete with you and your perfect gear that you just swap seconds after? As you stated it's literally impossible to get that kind of MF on some gear with what you need. So by your own words I can't compete at all. It'd be impossible. That's shitty and shows why the mechanic is broken.
Gear existing with only magic find has nothing to do with them intending you to switch. To think that is pretty much bordering on insane. Why do high level 60 white items exist? Does anyone use them? They exist because in a random number generator type game you want it to be completely random. Why take a specific one stat item out of the pool because theoretically not so many people will use it? That's silly.
As for it being an option in the first place... well it really isn't much an option. It's less of an option than in D2, for example. There is absolutely nothing in the game leading you to believe you should be doing that. It's clunky to open the menu and change gear like that. Now if they had an actual gear swap button you'd have a point. They don't. The fact the most people (you included) hotkey this stuff because it's annoying should tell you something...
I found this shield last night and I can't tell if it is trash or not. No primary stats, but what it has seems pretty good.
I think that's very good. All resist with high block. But then again I don't use shields.
Well, there is that Monk that made the rounds with his high Crit Chance, high +Health Globe healing build so ...
BigBlue1974
Member
I don't use a shield, but I'm pretty sure that would fetch a good amount. Seems easy enough to just search on the AH for those stats.I found this shield last night and I can't tell if it is trash or not. No primary stats, but what it has seems pretty good.
Compete with who? Unless RMAH is your job I don't see why it matters. If you don't enjoy a part of the game, ignore it. You can still pick up gold and buy the cheap equipment required to beat the game.
The mechanic isn't broken either. It's been part of the series for over a decade and the players have dealt with it.
I found this shield last night and I can't tell if it is trash or not. No primary stats, but what it has seems pretty good.
Yes, that's good. I would, in fact, be interested in buying it -- but I don't know how much it goes for. PM me your battletag if you're willing; you figure out a price range, and we'll talk.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Near max resists, block, and crit? That's pretty good. You can get a lot for that. Search for 70 all resist, 8 block, and 9 crit in the AH, see which other sacred shields have a max bloxk of 28% like yours does. They should be pretty expensive.
That's incredibly goodI found this shield last night and I can't tell if it is trash or not. No primary stats, but what it has seems pretty good.
I found this shield last night and I can't tell if it is trash or not. No primary stats, but what it has seems pretty good.
250 million.
Blast Processing
Member
UberTag
Member
Is there a logical reason as to why "gear swaps" weren't considered the same way as "skill swaps" when it comes to a reset of NV from the onset?
I'm not quite at Level 60 with my main character so I haven't yet delved into this world but when Nephalem Valor was introduced I always assumed swapping gear would act the same way as a skill swap. Clearly this isn't the case. Wouldn't treating gear swaps the same way as skill swaps effectively eliminate the gear swapping phenomenon due to the incurred NV penalty? And why would anyone that ISN'T partaking in this practice have a problem with this as a solution?
I'm not quite at Level 60 with my main character so I haven't yet delved into this world but when Nephalem Valor was introduced I always assumed swapping gear would act the same way as a skill swap. Clearly this isn't the case. Wouldn't treating gear swaps the same way as skill swaps effectively eliminate the gear swapping phenomenon due to the incurred NV penalty? And why would anyone that ISN'T partaking in this practice have a problem with this as a solution?
UnluckyKate
Member
How does Life of Hit works ?
For exemple : if I use Rapid Fire with my DH : will every arrow will heal me ? or just the base attack per sec stats ?
Same for the thousand fist attack for Monk ?
For exemple : if I use Rapid Fire with my DH : will every arrow will heal me ? or just the base attack per sec stats ?
Same for the thousand fist attack for Monk ?
Woo-Fu
Banned
I don't understand what you mean by compete. I'm not competing with anybody when it comes to magic find. Swapping to magic find isn't defeating anybody. My getting more rares isn't defeating anybody. There aren't global scoreboards with gold/min or $$$/min or anything like that.
Where's the competition? In what way have I outclassed, and/or defeated other people by switching to magic find gear?
It isn't competitive, it is co-operative. By finding more rares I'm potentially introducing more good gear to the game, gear that other people can use. I'm practically a pillar of the community.
Even pretending it was a competition and that switching to magic find provided a competitive advantage that competitive advantage is open to everybody/anybody. If it were a competitive game I'd be advocating for the addition of obtainable competitive advantages, not the removal of them.
As far as trade-offs go I guarantee that when I'm carrying an MF suit around I make far more trips to town as I have less inventory space for drops and typically I'm getting more of them. I also die more often than somebody who isn't trying to kill an elite when they have 14k dps and 10k hp, lol. There are plenty of trade-offs, you're just choosing to ignore them.
It is a set of trade-offs open to everybody. I've chosen one side, you've chosen the other and you're advocating that I shouldn't have the choice in the first place.
I disagree entirely. White items don't really have any purpose. Even at low levels they're just a placeholder. IMHO they shouldn't even be in the game. You're saying that such pointless drops are required because of an RNG? That's silly.
Most of the entirely pointless drops could be easily filtered out.
What?
I can swap gear in combat, that leads me to believe I should do so if it increases my rewards for being in combat. I'm not sure how more obvious they could make it that we should switch gear whenever it provides benefit.
They've actually explained why they don't have a gear swap button. They consider having to do some things "manually" part of the game experience. It is one of their main arguments against external automation, after all.
If you want to argue that they don't want us using autohotkey or autoit to swap gear I'll agree 100%. Trying to say that there is any indication whatsoever in the gameplay itself that shows they don't want us to swap gear manually just doesn't work.
Some people swap gear legitimately (e.g., DPS set for trash, swap to Shield for bad elite packs). Whether or not that should be possible is another matter entirely, I suppose.
Skills have a scaling coefficient that determines the returns per hit. It tends to average out to 100% Life on Hit per skill use.
UnluckyKate
Member
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