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Diablo III |OT5| Finally out of Beta

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Shifty76

Member
Hmm, must be somewhere between the two of us then. You're probably pretty close since I get taken down about 2/3. Here's a d3up version so you can compare more directly: http://d3up.com/b/457722

I've been running act 2 since it was found to be faster. The overkill-looking HP is for handling those constructs and turbocharged fallen maniac swarms.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/1f0elu/optimized_whirlrend_108_act_2_xp_farming_route/

"VotA (for 5 stacks) -> Desolate Sands -> Oasis -> Forgotten Ruins -> East and Western Channels -> Storm Halls"

VotA instead of mines/Alcanus for consistency, I guess. Sticking to the bottom when running to storm halls allows you to avoid the checkpoint on the left bridge and keep your VotA checkpoint.

Yeah, that's the run I do on my monk - will have to try it with wiz. Might have to play around with meteor shower rune instead of liquefy too as I've heard good things about it.

Also tried going back to WW rather than living lightning but not sure which I prefer yet.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
I gave meteor a good try but it just isn't worth the slot on higher MP I think. The damage from all the procs generated by WW is almost as good, time warp makes up for the lost damage and also adds some protection thanks to the bubble slowing ranged attacks.

I think WW probably beats LL on damage for you already - it's only really used for archons who aren't gear swapping I think
 

Opiate

Member
So I'm obviously not clear how effective HP works on that d3up site because I switched to a weapon with 3% life steal and my eHP went down by a few thousand even though I'm more or less impossibly to kill in MP7.

Did the weapon you replaced have strength, intelligence or dexterity? More of it than you currently have on the new weapon?
 

Shifty76

Member
So I'm obviously not clear how effective HP works on that d3up site because I switched to a weapon with 3% life steal and my eHP went down by a few thousand even though I'm more or less impossibly to kill in MP7.

LS has ZERO impact on EHP - it's sustain that went up.

As Opiate mentioned, you likely had a stat on your old weapon that gave an ehp boost.
 
Did the weapon you replaced have strength, intelligence or dexterity? More of it than you currently have on the new weapon?

the new weapon has lower int, which lowered my resistences.

so eHP is just a reflection of how much your defensive stats help you. I get it now.
 

VALKYRAY

Banned
In team I go full hota as a barb
Frenzy hota sprint rend battle rage wrath of berserker
Hota reduction isn't mandatory. I can go hybrid ww/hota without a single fury generator. Put hota on lmb, no fury, its an autoattack.
hota ww sprint rend battle rage wrath of berserker
 

Fularu

Banned
So I've been attempting to do MP10 and while I never die (unless I get electrocuted mothers who keep running away in Act I) everything dies so slowly...

My sheet DPS is 240k... At which point does it become viable? (Note my eHP is 650k according to d3up)... I'm thinking of going WH and droping the IK belt, thoughts? I would win 30k or more DPS doing the switch before BR (240k) and wotb (about 310k DPS)
 

Vodh

Junior Member
On MP10 mobs have pretty much twice the HP from MP8. "Dying so slowly" is the name of the game there and at the very least just looking at the pure numbers it's never going to be more efficient than MP8.
 
I was able to get hota pretty well but couldn't do it on anything lower than mp8 cause enemies die too quick. Which means i couldnt get my wrath recharged as easy. Also I managed a 495 enemy kill spree in weeping hollows which was cool cause I didn't even realize I was doing it til I was pretty far in n then I think I freaked myself out n lost it. I know there's a lot higher but for not actively going for it I thought that was pretty cool.
 

Shifty76

Member
So I've been attempting to do MP10 and while I never die (unless I get electrocuted mothers who keep running away in Act I) everything dies so slowly...

My sheet DPS is 240k... At which point does it become viable? (Note my eHP is 650k according to d3up)... I'm thinking of going WH and droping the IK belt, thoughts? I would win 30k or more DPS doing the switch before BR (240k) and wotb (about 310k DPS)

Guess this illustrates how true it is that monk sheet dps is absolutely no gauge of true dps.

I'm around the same dps as you when I get my buffs up yet things just melt (mind you, EP is like cheating vs trash mobs).
Extra health packs take a little longer, but unless it's one of those annoying fleeing mother packs I'd say most elite packs die in under 30 secs.
 

Vio-Lence

Banned
So I've been attempting to do MP10 and while I never die (unless I get electrocuted mothers who keep running away in Act I) everything dies so slowly...

My sheet DPS is 240k... At which point does it become viable? (Note my eHP is 650k according to d3up)... I'm thinking of going WH and droping the IK belt, thoughts? I would win 30k or more DPS doing the switch before BR (240k) and wotb (about 310k DPS)

Since you run WW/OP:KS/BR:ItF/WoB:TiC, I'd recommend loading your character on D3rawr and see what your tDPS is compared to your paper dps.
 
I gave meteor a good try but it just isn't worth the slot on higher MP I think. The damage from all the procs generated by WW is almost as good, time warp makes up for the lost damage and also adds some protection thanks to the bubble slowing ranged attacks.

I think WW probably beats LL on damage for you already - it's only really used for archons who aren't gear swapping I think

The bubble sometimes makes ranged attacks more difficult for me. NOt always, but sometimes. Like if 25-50 bees hit the bubble, they all start bunching up. Flying around with thunderclap and getting 50 bees in the face at once hurts. lol

In general the bubble is amazing though, so I deal ;)


Guess this illustrates how true it is that monk sheet dps is absolutely no gauge of true dps.

I'm around the same dps as you when I get my buffs up yet things just melt (mind you, EP is like cheating vs trash mobs).
Extra health packs take a little longer, but unless it's one of those annoying fleeing mother packs I'd say most elite packs die in under 30 secs.

Yeah our sheet DPS is garbage. Especially when they increased the damage of things like SW. If you're running conviction, that's also DPS that's unseen. If you're running backlash, that's a ton of DPS that's unseen too. PLus the 12% more from the flesh is weak.

EP is not cheating. It's just amazing ;P
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
50 bees in the face

Yeah, the bubble has that problem with electrified enemies too. Someone will come whirlwinding through and get obliterated by 10 seconds of zaps hitting at the same time. I'm hoping they add more options in the expansion. Would be nice to add transparency on friendly effects or something too. Can't see a thing...
 

Shifty76

Member
re-quoting this from yesterday. Is it realistic to think I could get a crit mempo for under 500 million? Seems to be pretty rare

Can't check bnet from work, but what class is this for?

Just asking because if it's monk you can get nearly identical dps from a good Inna's for a fraction of the price.
 

neoism

Member
I was able to get hota pretty well but couldn't do it on anything lower than mp8 cause enemies die too quick. Which means i couldnt get my wrath recharged as easy. Also I managed a 495 enemy kill spree in weeping hollows which was cool cause I didn't even realize I was doing it til I was pretty far in n then I think I freaked myself out n lost it. I know there's a lot higher but for not actively going for it I thought that was pretty cool.

damn this is my best so far...
i9bcKuSNeWXES.bmp
also guys WHAT do I do... :/ http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/neoism-1506/hero/28728058
decided to go for it a spend some of the gold I've had for awhile... I have a WH that j sold to me it gives me like 13k more dps but I really died a lot with only 5.3 LOS.. on mp8 I swear I was really used to having those IK set ups.. life on fury use is awesome.. 8.3 is soo much better plus the main problem even with Into the Fray I was still out of fury alot I'm an active sprinter I love going through the map thats why I use the unforgiving passive.. I had nearly 4 fury per sec with my set.. I've tried to get some gloves already wasted like 3 mil on crafting shit... really not sure what to got for.. My res is pretty lol too the highest being Physical at 432 the rest are high 350+..
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
"Fury: +8% generated"

Guess that works out to more fury than going from 60-63% crit chance, for example. Could have something to do with rounding on fury regen numbers too
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
Actually, with a high end HOTA build, you could be maxing out your crit chance (for HOTA specificlaly) and then the extra fury generation would clearly win
 

Fularu

Banned
Actually, with a high end HOTA build, you could be maxing out your crit chance (for HOTA specificlaly) and then the extra fury generation would clearly win

Mhh well I don'T run with HOTA (typical ww dual wield build) so maybe that's why I didn't notice anything special about that specific follower
 

neoism

Member
I see lots of barbs picking up the Templar

Why? I thought the bigger DPS and the 3% crit from the scoundrel would win.
lol not sure really I never liked the scoundrel at all.. I used the enchantress for awhile but he is really just used for MF but he does die alot plus I have a Gob ring on him so it usually mean 2 to 3 more gobs a game..
"Fury: +8% generated"

Guess that works out to more fury than going from 60-63% crit chance, for example. Could have something to do with rounding on fury regen numbers too
that too lol
 

Talents

Banned
Can someone tell me what I need to create a decent WW Barb? So far I've only bought Ice Climbers, Immortal Kings Eternal Reign and Inna's Temperance but I'm seriously stuck at what I need. Got about 1b to spend on the remaining gear. I tried to create an amulet using crafting but got nothing but crap.
 

Shadow780

Member
Can someone tell me what I need to create a decent WW Barb? So far I've only bought Ice Climbers, Immortal Kings Eternal Reign and Inna's Temperance but I'm seriously stuck at what I need. Got about 1b to spend on the remaining gear. I tried to create an amulet using crafting but got nothing but crap.

You'll need a Lacuni bracer, Mempo of Twilight with crit, Witching Hour, Eternal Iron, high dps axe/mace main hand, Echoing Fury offhand, and as much crit chance crit dmg you can get from jewelry.

depends on your dps you may need life leech on your weapon or belt if Blood Thirst isn't enough.

1b should be more than enough tho.
 

eek5

Member
Zylog413 suggests sprint/forced march and HOTA. I tried that out and it sort of worked, but HOTA reduction gear seems to be mandatory.

It all depends on your attack speed and crit chance. You should be able to sustain WotB on a single target using just HOTA and overpower w/ around 1.85aps unbuffed and ~50 CC. If you get more it will be much easier. You won't be doing a HOTA smash on every strike on a single though because of maths (costs 20 and you get 15 per crit) but it'll be close. If you want to do HOTA on every single strike you'll probably need insane CC + some reduction gear.

I think for groups a HOTA build is the best. I like to use rend instead of OP as well so that I can DPS large packs that you can pull in better.
So I've been attempting to do MP10 and while I never die (unless I get electrocuted mothers who keep running away in Act I) everything dies so slowly...

My sheet DPS is 240k... At which point does it become viable? (Note my eHP is 650k according to d3up)... I'm thinking of going WH and droping the IK belt, thoughts? I would win 30k or more DPS doing the switch before BR (240k) and wotb (about 310k DPS)

What's your buffed attack speed? Maybe you're just under a breakpoint or something. I'd also recommend switching to HOTA/WW. You get the WW to wreck trash then the HOTA to wreck elites. Best of both worlds.

Can someone tell me what I need to create a decent WW Barb? So far I've only bought Ice Climbers, Immortal Kings Eternal Reign and Inna's Temperance but I'm seriously stuck at what I need. Got about 1b to spend on the remaining gear. I tried to create an amulet using crafting but got nothing but crap.

You need to get weapons before you can do anything else because you'll need to figure out what gear is required to hit 2.5 APS buffed breakpoint (2.14 aps unbuffed)

http://zisspire.com/diablo3/content.php/194-2-5-APS-Barbarian-Tornado-Breakpoint-Guide

Budget like 300mil for an EF w/ 80% cd and fast aps w/ low fear for offhand
then get a weapon w/ LS for mainhand. If you're going to go WW I'd probably go for an mace or axe with 1180-1250 dps w/ LS and str (high avg dmg for WW) for ~50-100m

if you're planning on hota/ww I'd probably go for a 60 cd, ls axe in the 1050 dps range which is probably in the 100-200m range.
 

Fularu

Banned
Eek : here'sy barb

http://d3up.com/b/545471

My APS is 2.01 (sheet DPS, dunno if that changes once buffed beyond what wotb does).

I'm honestly at a loss.

Should I change my OH? And which build should I use? WWinding elites takes absolutely forever.

I've been trying to upgrade both rings and the amulet but keep getting overbid (I only have 80 millions to work with).

If I have to change my OH I think I could fetch a good price out of it.
 

Talents

Banned
You'll need a Lacuni bracer, Mempo of Twilight with crit, Witching Hour, Eternal Iron, high dps axe/mace main hand, Echoing Fury offhand, and as much crit chance crit dmg you can get from jewelry.

depends on your dps you may need life leech on your weapon or belt if Blood Thirst isn't enough.

1b should be more than enough tho.

You need to get weapons before you can do anything else because you'll need to figure out what gear is required to hit 2.5 APS buffed breakpoint (2.14 aps unbuffed)

http://zisspire.com/diablo3/content.php/194-2-5-APS-Barbarian-Tornado-Breakpoint-Guide

Budget like 300mil for an EF w/ 80% cd and fast aps w/ low fear for offhand
then get a weapon w/ LS for mainhand. If you're going to go WW I'd probably go for an mace or axe with 1180-1250 dps w/ LS and str (high avg dmg for WW) for ~50-100m

if you're planning on hota/ww I'd probably go for a 60 cd, ls axe in the 1050 dps range which is probably in the 100-200m range.

Thanks for the advice you two. I'll definitely put this info to use when I wake up.

However at the first quote, a crit mempo? I don't think I'd be able to afford a decent one with a 1b budget. I looked on the AH but couldn't find anything really.
 

eek5

Member
Eek : here'sy barb

http://d3up.com/b/545471

My APS is 2.01 (sheet DPS, dunno if that changes once buffed beyond what wotb does).

I'm honestly at a loss.

Should I change my OH? And which build should I use? WWinding elites takes absolutely forever.

I've been trying to upgrade both rings and the amulet but keep getting overbid (I only have 80 millions to work with).

If I have to change my OH I think I could fetch a good price out of it.

Here is super in-depth info on break points
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497

tl:dr; sheet dps doesn't really mean shit

Here is my understanding of it:

0KNdZ3c.png


Increasing your other stats in between break points is really flat. When you increase your attacks per second past a break point you'll see huge jumps in effective DPS. I think the APS most people try to get is 2.50001 APS (2.14 APS unbuffed). You're very close to it; I think you need 12 more ASI total. (Lacunis + ASI on ring or amulet would be cheapest)

Too lazy to do math but you're probably buffed into the first bracket or the second bracket.

2.00001-2.22222 aps - 9 fpt - 6.67 tps - 133.33% dps - 20 ticks - 400% dmg
2.22223-2.50000 aps - 8 fpt - 7.50 tps - 150.00% dps - 23 ticks - 460% dmg
2.50001-2.85714 aps - 7 fpt - 8.57 tps - 171.43% dps - 26 ticks - 520% dmg

Moving to 2.5APS will increase your WW damage 15-30% which is pretty significant.

edit: you can click skills on in d3up. I just checked and you're 2.3635 aps w/ WotB
--

The other build you can try is switch to HOTA/WW. I think it's the most versatile/overpowered build right now.

The "spin up" time sucks but once you get the initial 20 fury for battle rage you should be set for the rest of the game. The build is great IMO because once you get down to 1-2 targets as regular WW you kind of get boned. You have to kite to pull in more trash to maintain fury or risk running out of WotB. If you're running hota, however, you can switch to super high dps single target attacks to finish off elites while keeping permawrath (so fuckin overpowered lol). One of the nice things about HOTA is that sitting right under a breakpoint isn't as much of a deal breaker because any attack speed you have will increase the speed at which you attack which means your sheet is more representative of the effective dps you're putting out.


--

The third build you can try is switching to 2H. I think you only need to hit the 1.18 aps breakpoint which you'll hit easily? with the gear you have and a skorn.
 

Shadow780

Member
Thanks for the advice you two. I'll definitely put this info to use when I wake up.

However at the first quote, a crit mempo? I don't think I'd be able to afford a decent one with a 1b budget. I looked on the AH but couldn't find anything really.

You can probably drop crit mempo if it's too expensive, around 50% crit chance should be more than enough.
 
Here is super in-depth info on break points
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037344497

tl:dr; sheet dps doesn't really mean shit

Here is my understanding of it:

0KNdZ3c.png


Increasing your other stats in between break points is really flat. When you increase your attacks per second past a break point you'll see huge jumps in effective DPS. I think the APS most people try to get is 2.50001 APS (2.14 APS unbuffed). You're very close to it; I think you need 12 more ASI total. (Lacunis + ASI on ring or amulet would be cheapest)

Too lazy to do math but you're probably buffed into the first bracket or the second bracket.



Moving to 2.5APS will increase your WW damage 15-30% which is pretty significant.

edit: you can click skills on in d3up. I just checked and you're 2.3635 aps w/ WotB
--

The other build you can try is switch to HOTA/WW. I think it's the most versatile/overpowered build right now.

The "spin up" time sucks but once you get the initial 20 fury for battle rage you should be set for the rest of the game. The build is great IMO because once you get down to 1-2 targets as regular WW you kind of get boned. You have to kite to pull in more trash to maintain fury or risk running out of WotB. If you're running hota, however, you can switch to super high dps single target attacks to finish off elites while keeping permawrath (so fuckin overpowered lol). One of the nice things about HOTA is that sitting right under a breakpoint isn't as much of a deal breaker because any attack speed you have will increase the speed at which you attack which means your sheet is more representative of the effective dps you're putting out.


--

The third build you can try is switching to 2H. I think you only need to hit the 1.18 aps breakpoint which you'll hit easily? with the gear you have and a skorn.

Really appreciate you sharing this attack speed info, and other godly barbarian knowledge.

If it is okay, could you also look at my barb? I just hit p70...
http://d3up.com/b/687216
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/sorijealut-1247/hero/3146655
Really enjoying hota/ww build, I ditched my skorn for this setup.
What should be my next step from here? I couldn't get to the gems yet. They seem so expensive to me at the moment - I haven't much gold.
My only discomforts of the current setup is 12% movespeed and (what I feel) somewhat lacking crit chance and attack speed.
 

koji

Member
Right, think I just scored the cheapest 3k dmg upgrade evar!


:lol

Granted the ring it's replacing ain't great but shit. 1874 gold!

triumverate.png


Just dropped (on HC) any idea what it might be worth? Or is it any good, that would be a start, average dmg seems a bit on the low side... Is no AP on crit a killer? There aren't a lot of them listed with AP on crit.
 
By far my favorite part of this page is Eek's MS Paint graph with DPS vs. APS. It might be my favorite thing in the past like 5+ pages. lol

Right, think I just scored the cheapest 3k dmg upgrade evar!



:lol

Granted the ring it's replacing ain't great but shit. 1874 gold!

triumverate.png


Just dropped (on HC) any idea what it might be worth? Or is it any good, that would be a start, average dmg seems a bit on the low side... Is no AP on crit a killer? There aren't a lot of them listed with AP on crit.

I think you need Arcane per Crit for it to be worth money.
 

xero273

Member
Would suck major balls if that is the case but you are probably right.

well most ppl buying that are using it for archon build. The avg damage is decent and it has nice life stats. I think problem comes with the elemental dmg. you have 6/5/5. archon build is usually looking for 6/6/6. it's worth selling not sure how much.
 

Fularu

Banned
Does MP10 make up for losing the hellfire and ruby in the helm? I never really considered it before.
They're both marginal at best.

I mean better rings and a life gem will help you a lot more than gearing for experience in those slots (unless you plan to run mp1)
 
Does MP10 make up for losing the hellfire and ruby in the helm? I never really considered it before.

It feels like the ring and the gem in the helm helped more prior to the most recent patch. Since then NV affects EXP in a multiplicative manner. It's still obviously going to help wtih EXP gain, but swapping to a purple gem in my help was a very nice change for me. I'm still getting EXP just fine. Got another level last night.
 

Shifty76

Member
It feels like the ring and the gem in the helm helped more prior to the most recent patch. Since then NV affects EXP in a multiplicative manner. It's still obviously going to help wtih EXP gain, but swapping to a purple gem in my help was a very nice change for me. I'm still getting EXP just fine. Got another level last night.

Yeah, once I hit 60 I slapped an amethyst in my helm and never looked back. Leveling seems plenty fast enough, even in mid-90's plvl.

If I could find a ring that outdamages my hellfire and costs less than 200m I'd use it instead, but I haven't had any luck with that so far so that's the only reason I'm still using mine.
 
Yeah, once I hit 60 I slapped an amethyst in my helm and never looked back. Leveling seems plenty fast enough, even in mid-90's plvl.

If I could find a ring that outdamages my hellfire and costs less than 200m I'd use it instead, but I haven't had any luck with that so far so that's the only reason I'm still using mine.

Keeping AR on my ring is an expensive proposition as well, otherwise I would also have moved on to a yellow.

I did manage to craft another 8K DPS in my ammy though.
 
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