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Diablo III |OT5| Finally out of Beta

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I played a bit with CoB (after patch), but than changed to plague of bats. CoB does much more dmg and it´s fun considering it crits a lot, but the radius sucks. Found my self running out of mana on occasion, cause I had to restart CoB pretty often to reach other monsters.

Plague of bats has longer range, reaches beyond obstacles(like wallers) and keeps doing dmg when you are forced to move. And the dmg is high after a few seconds, though not as high as CoB. It is not a tap and run skill though. I am more of a tank WD and can stay alive thanks to life steal. I play at MP8 and rarely die. Haven´t tried MP10.

I haven´t tried that pestilence with CoB before either, looked like a lot of fun.

4 pieces of Zunimassa's is required for the CoB build. Then at least one other skill that refills mana. Right now I prefer spirit walk over the blood ritual.

And basically you use locusts to stay alive while you round up a large group to slaughter.
 

Our goal is to make the loot experience more enjoyable for ALL players. This includes reducing the amount of loot that drops while improving the overall quality, introducing targeted Legendaries, and giving players ways to directly customize their character's armor—both visually and mechanically. We're also looking into ways to reduce the impact of the Auction House. While we think the feature does provide a lot of value, it shouldn’t feel like the end-all-be-all force driving character progression.

Come oooooon 1.0.9
 
That's too bad....it's a LOT of fun...but then, I'm just starting Nightmare anyway, so we'll see what weapons I can get later on.

The problem with DW IIRC is that you have to have near pefect rolls on those 1H Xbows for them to be worthwhile since you can equip a quiver even when using a 2H weapon. The dual socket manticore with a good dead man's legacy is pretty hard to beat.
 

Wolfie5

Member
4 pieces of Zunimassa's is required for the CoB build. Then at least one other skill that refills mana. Right now I prefer spirit walk over the blood ritual.

And basically you use locusts to stay alive while you round up a large group to slaughter.

I have the 4 pieces, and it´s not like I get zero mana straight away. It just happens from time to time because of short radious. Anyway, I am testing spirit walk with mana and that seems to help a lot.

My build:
http://d3up.com/b/721267
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Come oooooon 1.0.9

It's hard to get too excited when it's essentially just more of the "we're gonna make it better, promise!" talk that's been going on for almost a year. But who knows, maybe in 2 more years after an expansion and subsequent patches the game will finally start to live up to the promise.
 
It's hard to get too excited when it's essentially just more of the "we're gonna make it better, promise!" talk that's been going on for almost a year. But who knows, maybe in 2 more years after an expansion and subsequent patches the game will finally start to live up to the promise.

Ummm ... they've been making it better? Game is great right now. 1.0.9 pans out and it's game of the forever for me.
 

Stripes55

Neo Member
The problem with DW IIRC is that you have to have near pefect rolls on those 1H Xbows for them to be worthwhile since you can equip a quiver even when using a 2H weapon. The dual socket manticore with a good dead man's legacy is pretty hard to beat.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of with DW. So much for my vision of both crossbows blazing as I plow through Inferno LOL. Hopefully, I can get a decent Manticore somewhere along the line....I don't have a lot of gold now (although my DH is only level 36, so I've got a bit of time)...may have to run my 60(20) Barb for a bit to up the total....
 

Stripes55

Neo Member
Thanks again to everyone for the DH advice...on a separate note: I generally don't have a lot of time to play solo, let alone multiplayer. If I decide to join up in a game, should I look for games at the same MP I play solo, or can I jump that up a bit (here I'm thinking of my 60/20 barb who normally runs at MP3).
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Ummm ... they've been making it better? Game is great right now. 1.0.9 pans out and it's game of the forever for me.

It is better now than it was at launch, for sure, but it's mostly been a string of band-aids; core mechanics of loot/character strength dynamic are still lame and boring, and as long as that's the case the game can't hold my attention. Stuff potentially mentioned in 1.09 does sound interesting, but again, I'm not really holding my breath until I see specific examples of cool stuff like build-centric uniques and affix changes.
 

Cipherr

Member
Ummm ... they've been making it better? Game is great right now. 1.0.9 pans out and it's game of the forever for me.

This. I'm off that other nonsense now. They have over the last few patches, undeniably made great changes that have made the game much more fun. The big itemization patch thats incoming will further whats already been happening the last 6 months.
 

Insaniac

Member
It is better now than it was at launch, for sure, but it's mostly been a string of band-aids; core mechanics of loot/character strength dynamic are still lame and boring, and as long as that's the case the game can't hold my attention. Stuff potentially mentioned in 1.09 does sound interesting, but again, I'm not really holding my breath until I see specific examples of cool stuff like build-centric uniques and affix changes.

while I agree a lot of the stuff revolving aroudn build variety and itemization hasn't been fixed yet, they have constantly been addressing issues and with their promise of pushing a fix for itemization I have faith in them. I've really started enjoying diablo 3 a lot.
 

jkanownik

Member
The itemization fixes are going to be interesting. The population is pretty stable and many people already have gear that handles the end game. They'll likely need to introduce gameplay changes to drive adoption of new items. Balancing the two will not be easy.

They'll also need to improve trading to get people off the AH. Reducing the spread of item stats will help, but they also need to address the other huge gaps vs D2 trading (public trading rooms w/ 8 players).

I'm not surprised this is taking a long time to figure out. I wonder if they'll reduce the scope and try to improve it in steps over time.
 

Talaysen

Member
Thanks again to everyone for the DH advice...on a separate note: I generally don't have a lot of time to play solo, let alone multiplayer. If I decide to join up in a game, should I look for games at the same MP I play solo, or can I jump that up a bit (here I'm thinking of my 60/20 barb who normally runs at MP3).

You should be able to do 2 or so MPs higher in multiplayer just by raw numbers. But I suggest trying things out and find out where you're comfortable. I join games in multiplayer more than 2 MPs above what I'd play solo and do okay. Damage getting spread out and party buffs make a huge difference.
 
It is better now than it was at launch, for sure, but it's mostly been a string of band-aids; core mechanics of loot/character strength dynamic are still lame and boring, and as long as that's the case the game can't hold my attention. Stuff potentially mentioned in 1.09 does sound interesting, but again, I'm not really holding my breath until I see specific examples of cool stuff like build-centric uniques and affix changes.


Build diversity is great depending on class. For a Monk it's nice. The DH is broken and the Wiz could use a couple more builds. I personally like not having the skill tree though. Being able to switch build on the fly to match the scenario is wonderful.

If I'm playing high MP solo I use the backlash build. If I'm in a party it's Overwave build. If I'm running lower MP I drop all defensive passives, use a 2H Skorn and add tempest rush. Two monk playing? I'll run MoH with guiding light passive.

Tempest Rush build with monk is semi build centric with it's unique (Skorn is really the best). WKL is a build centric unique for a lighting monk. I'm not sure about all the other classes, but certain builds do call for certain uniques. Calamity for the DH with grenades is another.

I do feel you to some extent about the loot though. I think the ideas in 1.0.9 will help with my complaints.

This. I'm off that other nonsense now. They have over the last few patches, undeniably made great changes that have made the game much more fun. The big itemization patch thats incoming will further whats already been happening the last 6 months.

Agreed. It's been interesting for me because I think I'm one of the few psychos to play from launch until now without much of a break at all. A lot of the complaints people had have been delt with. Reading a D3 thread on the main gaming side examplifies this. The loot can be improved upon still, as well as some specific class balances, but in general I feel like the game is in a good place and a lot of fun to play.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Started playing the game lately after not touching it for a long time. Pretty hard to get any really good gear when you're broke as shit.

[edit]

Spent the past few days trying to find cheap stuff on the AH and was able to get 54,713 damage on my Monk which I thought was pretttyyyy awesome. Then I saw that everyone else was rocking 200k damage or some crazy shit like that.
 
Yeah getting over 100k gets exponentially more expensive. The only way to get there is by stacking as much crit chance and crit damage as you can. Getting above 200k requires you to either invest in attack speed or a crazy high DPS weapon.

The people over 400k have spent billions upon billions of gold.
 

eek5

Member
Started playing the game lately after not touching it for a long time. Pretty hard to get any really good gear when you're broke as shit.

[edit]

Spent the past few days trying to find cheap stuff on the AH and was able to get 54,713 damage on my Monk which I thought was pretttyyyy awesome. Then I saw that everyone else was rocking 200k damage or some crazy shit like that.

You can pretty much craft the best gear in the game now for half your equipment slots.

Yeah those profiles have 4x the damage you have but they probably have 100x the playing time too. Just enjoy the game for what it is.

Why not use the profiles to inspire you instead getting you down?
 
I have the 4 pieces, and it´s not like I get zero mana straight away. It just happens from time to time because of short radious. Anyway, I am testing spirit walk with mana and that seems to help a lot.

My build:
http://d3up.com/b/721267

Your mana problems result from using a 1h+OH. CoB's mana cost scales hugely with faster weapons. You're better off with a good, slow-ass Skorn because attack speed is gonna give you mana problems without any notable damage improvements.

You can pretty much craft the best gear in the game now for half your equipment slots.

Crafting is even more depressing than farming for hundreds of hours and not getting a worthwhile drop. I watched a stream of a guy craft 3000 amulets and not get an upgrade. Hundreds of millions of gold, hundreds of hours of playtime to get the essences, completely down the toilet. The guy's current amulet is good, but it could be a lot better, but the nature of the game's single-minded concept of "a good item" makes it exceedingly improbable, even when rolling 3000 amulets that are guaranteed 6 of the highest end affix rolls.

There are no alternative paths to a good item. There are no interesting decisions to be made between different options that are mechanically and functionally different. It all boils down to two overly quantifiable figures: EHP and DPS. The fact that, for an item to be good, it simply has to maximize those two things... that's what's uninteresting about the game. The items don't lend themselves to mechanics, they lend themselves to numbers.

It boils down to this: item rolls 4-6 affixes, if at least 4 of those aren't from the pool of good affixes (CC, AD, CHD, IAS, AR, vit, or mainstat) then the item is completely useless. It literally cannot possibly be good without those rolls. And there's this massive pool of completely worthless affixes that no one would ever want ever. The result is that, even though a lot more stuff drops now, it is simply a matter of probability that the vast majority of it will be worthless. Which is not fun.
 

elfinke

Member
Started playing the game lately after not touching it for a long time. Pretty hard to get any really good gear when you're broke as shit.

[edit]

Spent the past few days trying to find cheap stuff on the AH and was able to get 54,713 damage on my Monk which I thought was pretttyyyy awesome. Then I saw that everyone else was rocking 200k damage or some crazy shit like that.

Haha, yeah I've been going through that recently too after picking D3 back up in the last month or so. I've never had more than a million gold to my name at any one time, so playing the AH to incrementally grow DPS has been a lot of fun recently (man I wish D3 had something like Auctioneer from early WoW days).

It's all about the 'time left' search function to find a bargain.

And yeah, looking at profiles that have WD and Barbs with 2-4x the DPS I have (~90k unbuffed) is staggering. Still, something to aspire to I guess?

All this talk about Cloud of Bats is interesting. I tried it out a few nights ago and all it brought me was swift death. However I didn't pay any attention to the way a WD is supposed to be moving, and attacking to optimise CoB, in particular the lack of pet use. Thanks for the discussion above, it was pretty illuminating. I'll have to reinvestigate the skill.
 

eek5

Member
Crafting is even more depressing than farming for hundreds of hours and not getting a worthwhile drop. I watched a stream of a guy craft 3000 amulets and not get an upgrade. Hundreds of millions of gold, hundreds of hours of playtime to get the essences, completely down the toilet. The guy's current amulet is good, but it could be a lot better, but the nature of the game's single-minded concept of "a good item" makes it exceedingly improbable, even when rolling 3000 amulets that are guaranteed 6 of the highest end affix rolls.

Eh I guess. RNG goes both ways. I only have my experience to throw out but if we're running complete arguments off of just a single anecdote, I have at least 4 crafted items on each of my 5 characters so I guess my experience is wildly different. When I first came back in 1.0.7 I ended up getting 300+ mil by crafting just replacing the vile wards, rare bracers, rare gloves, rare amulets that my main was wearing. (I haven't even spent 300m on all 5 of my chars crafting yet; not even close)

My current crated gear on just my main is probably worth 100 times what a rares like it would cost on the market compared to what I paid to craft them.
 

elfinke

Member
So the server has gone down for the evening (edit: nope, just a rolling server restart for some update thing, we're back up), which sucks, but I did manage to snag a couple cheap upgrades on the AH (namely cheapo Zuni Pox and Trail to make up the 4-set) and find time to try out the Cloud of Bats style of Witch Doctoring.

And holy shit, it's fucking crazy and I now see why it's so prevalent. I'm only rocking a very gentle ~80k DPS unbuffed, but jeez, running through the Heart of Sin areas in Inferno now was a cinch. Cast Haunt - Draining Spirit at one or two enemies then gather up a bunch more of enemies - then kerblammo! with the Cloud of Bats. Fucking big numbers and explosions and shit goes everywhere, leaving just loot and health globes in their wake. Like a stationary WW Barb, but somehow even more nuclear.

It's slightly intoxicating.
 
It's slightly intoxicating.

yeah my main goal right now is to try to break the game:

lOBmPfm.jpg



So console version coming in Sept... wonder if 1.09 is coming soon :(

It looks like the guy they put in charge of the console ports is now in charge of Diablo 3 overall. So my guess is all the heavy lifting for those ports is done(which makes sense since they were letting the public play it at PAX) and the only thing left to do is polish them up for release. And what they did for itemization for the console version(fewer but more powerful drops) is very similar to what they have planned for the future of the PC version of the game. So I don't think the console versions coming out will have much impact on the next big patch for us.
 

elfinke

Member
yeah my main goal right now is to try to break the game:

I love it.

Having run through to the completion of Inferno at long last with the WD I moved onto my Barb and have hit a wall. Despite her considerable DPS advantage over my WD, she is just to damn squishy and/or I'm just a lousy Barb player, WWing to my death in the same areas of Act III that the WD breezed through.

Going to reassess builds I think, back off on the DPS in lieu of some extra armour or HP, see how we go.
 

eek5

Member
Cast Haunt - Draining Spirit at one or two enemies then gather up a bunch more of enemies - then kerblammo! with the Cloud of Bats. Fucking big numbers and explosions and shit goes everywhere, leaving just loot and health globes in their wake. Like a stationary WW Barb, but somehow even more nuclear.

It's slightly intoxicating.

Do some pulls with locust swarm in A1 and it'll blow your mind.

Just watch out for bull charges.
 
Crafting is even more depressing than farming for hundreds of hours and not getting a worthwhile drop. I watched a stream of a guy craft 3000 amulets and not get an upgrade. Hundreds of millions of gold, hundreds of hours of playtime to get the essences, completely down the toilet. The guy's current amulet is good, but it could be a lot better, but the nature of the game's single-minded concept of "a good item" makes it exceedingly improbable, even when rolling 3000 amulets that are guaranteed 6 of the highest end affix rolls.

There are no alternative paths to a good item. There are no interesting decisions to be made between different options that are mechanically and functionally different. It all boils down to two overly quantifiable figures: EHP and DPS. The fact that, for an item to be good, it simply has to maximize those two things... that's what's uninteresting about the game. The items don't lend themselves to mechanics, they lend themselves to numbers.

It boils down to this: item rolls 4-6 affixes, if at least 4 of those aren't from the pool of good affixes (CC, AD, CHD, IAS, AR, vit, or mainstat) then the item is completely useless. It literally cannot possibly be good without those rolls. And there's this massive pool of completely worthless affixes that no one would ever want ever. The result is that, even though a lot more stuff drops now, it is simply a matter of probability that the vast majority of it will be worthless. Which is not fun.

He's in the minority. Crafting yields results. I've crafted my gloves, bracers, two ammy (my first was worse even though a trifecta), shoulders and my ring.


Eh I guess. RNG goes both ways. I only have my experience to throw out but if we're running complete arguments off of just a single anecdote, I have at least 4 crafted items on each of my 5 characters so I guess my experience is wildly different. When I first came back in 1.0.7 I ended up getting 300+ mil by crafting just replacing the vile wards, rare bracers, rare gloves, rare amulets that my main was wearing. (I haven't even spent 300m on all 5 of my chars crafting yet; not even close)

My current crated gear on just my main is probably worth 100 times what a rares like it would cost on the market compared to what I paid to craft them.

This.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
Has anyone checked their DPS multiplier on their WD?

I've got mine going at about 80k sheet DPS and it looks like maybe 1.5 million effective DPS, or about 20x, compared to 10x at best for CM wizards.
 

elfinke

Member
So I cured my Barb's ails. Swapping from WW, which I've been using for almost the entirety of my play time, to a build based around HoTA (and swapping out the cheapo Cindercoat chest armour to a cheap Immortal King's piece) was a what you call, #gamechanger.

Cydaea, Azmodan and that first boss in Heaven all destroyed in a matter of 2 or 3 seconds through the use of Rend and just holding down the right mouse button for HoTA. Ridiculous, even moreso than what it was with the WD above.

spidermanneat.jpg

So, with that sorted it's time to see what this end game farming business is all about I guess? I've got a 4 day long weekend ahead of me...
 

Shifty76

Member
Has anyone checked their DPS multiplier on their WD?

I've got mine going at about 80k sheet DPS and it looks like maybe 1.5 million effective DPS, or about 20x, compared to 10x at best for CM wizards.

What do you use to check that? d3up? d3rawr?

From what I've seen on monks, most seem to be around 10x sheet dps or higher, depending on skills used, maybe a bit less for CM wiz's.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
You just time how long it takes to kill Ghom or Asmodan, and divide their HP by the kill time. That gives your effective DPS. Divide that by your char sheet DPS (unbuffed) to get the multiplier.

It's only really valid for single target DPS, but it's the best we've got.
 

Ingeniero

Member
So I cured my Barb's ails. Swapping from WW, which I've been using for almost the entirety of my play time, to a build based around HoTA (and swapping out the cheapo Cindercoat chest armour to a cheap Immortal King's piece) was a what you call, #gamechanger.

Cydaea, Azmodan and that first boss in Heaven all destroyed in a matter of 2 or 3 seconds through the use of Rend and just holding down the right mouse button for HoTA. Ridiculous, even moreso than what it was with the WD above.
That's great man, HotA is the way to got hands down, I figured it out months ago, swtiched and never looked back, it's so satisfying... the dps is insane.
 
Do you guys have some tips or build guides for the Barb builds? I've got my barb to level 60 but feel like I'm lost in exactly how to setup my Barbs skills efficiently and how to gear him up.

I'm woefully broke right now too...considering spending $20 or something on gold though I'm assuming there's better routes than buying through Blizzard?
 

kennah

Member
Do you guys have some tips or build guides for the Barb builds? I've got my barb to level 60 but feel like I'm lost in exactly how to setup my Barbs skills efficiently and how to gear him up.

I'm woefully broke right now too...considering spending $20 or something on gold though I'm assuming there's better routes than buying through Blizzard?

I owe ya and have some hand me downs you can have. What kind of barb build are you wanting to do? Smashy smashy or whirly whirly?
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
Does NeoGAF's software allow adding new fields in profiles? Would be nice to have battletags in there. (I'm sure this has come up before)
 

M.D

Member
So I cured my Barb's ails. Swapping from WW, which I've been using for almost the entirety of my play time, to a build based around HoTA (and swapping out the cheapo Cindercoat chest armour to a cheap Immortal King's piece) was a what you call, #gamechanger.

Cydaea, Azmodan and that first boss in Heaven all destroyed in a matter of 2 or 3 seconds through the use of Rend and just holding down the right mouse button for HoTA. Ridiculous, even moreso than what it was with the WD above.

spidermanneat.jpg

So, with that sorted it's time to see what this end game farming business is all about I guess? I've got a 4 day long weekend ahead of me...

Can you give us your full build?
 

Talaysen

Member
Has anyone checked their DPS multiplier on their WD?

I've got mine going at about 80k sheet DPS and it looks like maybe 1.5 million effective DPS, or about 20x, compared to 10x at best for CM wizards.

How is it so high? Cloud of Bats is only a 10-11x multiplier.
 

lionelhutz

Member
I recently started playing D3 again. I beat the game last year with a Monk, started a second play through, and then I was sidetracked with other things. I focused on DPS through dexterity, but wanted to know if there were other stats I should be focused on and if the patches changed the play style of the Monk a lot. It took a good 5-10 minutes to figure out the build again and how the skills were setup.
 

Insaniac

Member
I recently started playing D3 again. I beat the game last year with a Monk, started a second play through, and then I was sidetracked with other things. I focused on DPS through dexterity, but wanted to know if there were other stats I should be focused on and if the patches changed the play style of the Monk a lot. It took a good 5-10 minutes to figure out the build again and how the skills were setup.

Crit chance / crit damage and attack speed are the main ways of buffing your DPS past what plain main stat can do
 

lionelhutz

Member
Crit chance / crit damage and attack speed are the main ways of buffing your DPS past what plain main stat can do

Does that come from gear, gems, or both? I seem to have reached my limit with crafting and gems until I find more tomes, and they don't seem to be very common.
 
Does that come from gear, gems, or both? I seem to have reached my limit with crafting and gems until I find more tomes, and they don't seem to be very common.

crit chance and crit damage come almost entirely from gear. the lone exception being slotting an emerald into a weapon, which increases crit damage. you'll find that items with all of or most of these stats on them are crazy expensive. which is why most people craft gloves, bracers and amulet since you get get a decent level of cc/cd/ias for pretty cheap.
 

elfinke

Member
Can you give us your full build?

Just got out of bed. I'll have some breakfast and give some links.

/edit: Here it is

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#aZUcRP!ZeY!YYZZYc

[MB1]Bash - Instigation
[MB2]HoTA - Thunderstrike
[1]Sprint - RLTW
[2]Rend - Blood Lust
[3]Battle Rage - Into The Fray
[4]WoTB - Thrive on Chaos

[*]Ruthless
[*]Superstition (I keep changing this one, currently trying out Animosity and Unforgiven)
[*]Weapons Master​

Pieced together from here and the build itself found here.

Like I said, I've only got a very modest Barb gear wise but I was running through mobs on Inferno last night with ease, even though statistically the HoTA build seems worse than the WW build before it (between the build change and the couple gear changes I made last night, I dropped ~10k DPS, 15% crit chance and 150% crit damage), it still hits much much harder and far more consistently than the WW build did.

And it has the hilarious bonus where you're left with one enemy left over whose movement speed is a tad faster than mine that I'm holding right-click down on, chasing after, only to catch them and hit them so often for a 600k crit. Cue the Benny Hill music.
 
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