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Diablo III |OT5| Finally out of Beta

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MrDaravon

Member
I think after this weekend I'm wanting to go into RoS with at least like 100 million gold, but with how much gold streamers are getting from bounties (at least for right now) I'm less worried about not buying anything at all off the AH if it's a reasonable upgrade. Given that probably an overwhelming majority of the userbase going into RoS (which will also consist of a shitload of people who haven't played since month of release) are going in with no gold they'll have to have balanced it at least somewhat in that direction. I'll probably keep bumping up the minimum gold I want to go into RoS with as time passes, but I spent ~70 mil this weekend for some moderate upgrades on my barb and can run MP10 fine (at least doing Act 1 crypt runs) and by doing so got good enough drops to make 60 of that 70 mil back already. Buying gems is maybe not the best idea, but I think people are maybe overstating a bit not to spend a single gold between now and RoS release on the AH.

So anybody have any gear I can buy for my lvl 60 barb? I only have 448K gold lol...

Also what is a good stats goal? Min barrier or something.

Are you on US or EU?

I've only ever really run a pretty vanilla WW/HotA build so I don't have a ton of specific insights into the Barb, but I'd say check out the Barb Reddit maybe if you're looking for specific numbers.
 

MrDaravon

Member
Okay, if neo's got you at least for now I'm gonna crash. I can cover a couple mil of stuff tomorrow of whatever you don't or can't do tonight Neo.
 

neoism

Member
Okay, if neo's got you at least for now I'm gonna crash. I can cover a couple mil of stuff tomorrow of whatever you don't or can't do tonight Neo.

I will be home in 45 minutes, give or take.

Thanks guys!

k....
just pm me on gaf when you get home and ill hop on Sarcasm..... got a bunch of barb stuff, and I will probably only play my monk til the EXP because shes the lowest PL ;p



after watching some DH streams I'll be sticking with Crusader/Monk/Barb..... I thought that new barb skill was shit buts it awesome, still sad about all the barb nerfs though :/
 

neoism

Member
if mp 1 still gives u probs just definitely use the highest purple gem in your helm... if you look on the AH unless you'd rather find it, but you should be able to find a reallllly cheap 3 slot chest for 3 more high purple gems... or just look for good vit. also if you haven't played with rend with bloodlust try it out its awesome with a skorn.
I'll prob be on tomorrow sometime after 3est so if your on I'll help u level :p
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Sorry guys, I play on EU...

Anyone else want to help me get Hellfire Ring on EU? How long does it take anyway? What would it require of me? Is it hard or is it more of a long grind?
 

Sarcasm

Member
Tried a couple skill changes...got all the way to (spelling) Bal and when he got to third form can gethim below 50% HP before hes does that entire floor is green attack.


So what is the recommended build for 2h?
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Gonna be working on my WD today. What are some good leveling skills?

And for end game, which stats should I be focusing on? And which weapon types are the best?
 

MrDaravon

Member
Sarcasm are you still on? I've got about 45 minutes before I go to work. Otherwise I can try to hit you up later when I get home, which is about 11 hours from now.

Gonna be working on my WD today. What are some good leveling skills?

And for end game, which stats should I be focusing on? And which weapon types are the best?

I pretty much just stuck with the Bats once you unlock them.

For WD there's a few different builds, I've only ever really run the Firebats build so I can't say for sure but I think largely WD gear focus is the same for all builds. Since you're going to be stacking Int anyway your AR is going to be crazy, so you'll generally focus on Vit and Armor for tankiness, especially with the Firebats build. Also I think most (all?) WD builds are going to suggest or require you take the Zuinmasa 4-set bonus which generally locks you into the Helm/Chest/Ring/Boots although some people can get away with rolling with the Mojo instead of one of the other pieces if you get a really good one with a good one-hand. So they're fairly easy to gear for, and all of those set pieces are actually pretty solid anyway and you'll just be focusing on getting Vit/Armor instead of AR on them.
 
Gonna be working on my WD today. What are some good leveling skills?

And for end game, which stats should I be focusing on? And which weapon types are the best?

I need to come up with a good name for a WD before I roll one. And male or female? Can't decide with that class.

Yea I always die at same spot on Belial. I mean literally there is no spot to stay..everything is green -.- lol

Also note that you can just clear it on MP0 if you're having issues - that should be more than easy enough. When farming there's no reason to ever do Belial again.
 

Sarcasm

Member
I got him and got to PL2! Making gold now..instead of paying those repair bills lol.

Thanks to Falcon, Nem and Mr..my DPS is higher than 60K (with frenzy 95K) and 35K HP!

I just need to figure out about lvling the profs now.
 

ZenaxPure

Member
I was doing some random reading on the barb forums and I saw in the hota thread that thunderstrike was a good rune for hota as a replacement to smash. My first thought was how do you replace smash, but, I have to admit it's pretty fucking hilarious perma-stunning packs of mobs and keeping them from escaping tornados. Might roll with it for a while just cause it's cool.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
I posted a thread with an idea for balancing Crushing Blow:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10701150023

I think this would work pretty well for removing the pressure toward high attack speed builds. In the on-hit calculation, your crushing blow chance would be divided by your APS. That way it doesn't matter if you're running with a big 2H build at 1 APS or fast 1h at 3 APS - your average crushing blows per second stays the same and only depends on your crushing blow chance, instead of CB % x APS.

(posting in the OT as well as the RoS beta thread since the same APS-normalizing method could be used for other effects in the game - maybe they can bump up overall proc rate if APS scaling is no longer a problem, so things become more 2H-friendly)
 

Dahbomb

Member
I posted a thread with an idea for balancing Crushing Blow:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10701150023

I think this would work pretty well for removing the pressure toward high attack speed builds. In the on-hit calculation, your crushing blow chance would be divided by your APS. That way it doesn't matter if you're running with a big 2H build at 1 APS or fast 1h at 3 APS - your average crushing blows per second stays the same and only depends on your crushing blow chance, instead of CB % x APS.

(posting in the OT as well as the RoS beta thread since the same APS-normalizing method could be used for other effects in the game - maybe they can bump up overall proc rate if APS scaling is no longer a problem, so things become more 2H-friendly)
Aren't most of the abuses on CB based off rapidly hitting spells that proc CB? I mean that's how characters like WD are doing Torment 6. Even Barbs have now transitioned to a poor man's WW Barb because the WW procs Crushing Blow at rapid rates.

I like your idea though for sure. I also liked that other person's idea of Crushing Blow lowering enemy armor by 25% per hit. It would still make other sources of DPS viable without making CB + IAS over powered. Although I am not sure if mobs have armor/mitigation values.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
Aren't most of the abuses on CB based off rapidly hitting spells that proc CB? I mean that's how characters like WD are doing Torment 6. Even Barbs have now transitioned to a poor man's WW Barb because the WW procs Crushing Blow at rapid rates.

I like your idea though for sure. I also liked that other person's idea of Crushing Blow lowering enemy armor by 25% per hit. It would still make other sources of DPS viable without making CB + IAS over powered. Although I am not sure if mobs have armor/mitigation values.

Yeah, I think they need to tune those proc coefficients for CB. I'm not sure it's even affected by proc coefficient right now, which would explain a lot of the OP behaviour people are seeing.

No, mobs don't have mitigation as far as I know. I was just thinking of that earlier today, thinking of something like a corrosion affix that destroys armour, or a similar thing for resists, but mobs don't have those. The good news is we could accomplish the same sort of thing by adding an affix that adds a stacking damage multiplier debuff on the mobs. I put up a reddit thread for that idea earlier:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/1rfku7/new_primary_affix_chance_of_stacking_takes_more/

Apparently Guild Wars 2 has a mechanic like this called Vulnerability (coincidentally) and it just has a lower cap. For it to be in the same ballpark as crushing blow, I would remove the cap on it and give it exponential scaling for the damage multiplier as additional stacks are applied.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Yea that's basically what I was thinking (the whole Vulnerability debuff).

I like the overall concept of Crushing Blow which is that its suppose to allow tanky builds to be viable. Basically it would allow them to compete with high damage, less tank builds. However in its current state it greatly favors tank characters who can dish out procs very fast. Glass cannon characters end up still dying too fast even with Crushing Blow and crits in Torment 6, they need OP Legendary to stay in the fight and those Legendary will for sure be nerfed and when that happens it will be a game of who can stack Toughness enough so that they can unleash multiple Crushing Blows. The enemy HP is simply too much to just rely on crit damage and attack speed.

Also has anyone done some calculations on experience gain per hour in completing Bounties versus completing Rifts? It seems like at lower levels Bounties are way better but once you are super geared the mob densities in some of these Rifts seems to out class the Bounties especially when you can clear Rifts fast.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
Going by Kripp's stream, rifts appear to win once you get overpowered enough. It's just a question of whether players would reach that point in groups without that bugged beam. Seems like the legendary drop rate is higher and there are those occasional goblin floors. Probably more to come for rifts according to recent blue posts.

Gold appears to become meaningless pretty quickly since your legendary drops for materials aren't sufficient for you to be enchanting at a rate that would eat up your gold income.
 

MrDaravon

Member
Gold appears to become meaningless pretty quickly since your legendary drops for materials aren't sufficient for you to be enchanting at a rate that would eat up your gold income.

Yeah, I'm actually curious how this will wind up balancing out. I'm almost tempted to spend more gold then I had intended prior to RoS hitting if I can make purchases that get me Paragon levels faster. It's impossible to tell at this point (especially with people using bugged stuff to clear Torment 6 bounties) but I think the crafting items will be the wall.

Related: I was just watching Modz's stream, and he switched over to level his WD up from 60. He had almost no WD gear, and he could only craft two items before he ran out of the debris material you get for salvaging white items which was kind of hilarious. In general stuff seems to require a LOT more mats, pre-70 rare crafting materials are even requiring one (or more) Demonice Essences for example.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Yeah you have more than enough gold in the game, its just a matter of getting enough Legendaries.

I had the same observation as you about absurd gear being more effective on Rift in terms of loot drop. I think the higher Legendary drops on Rifts is really more of a result of higher densities and more importantly higher number of Rares/Champs per level. However I don't think everyone can have that god beam which means farm on Rift on average is going to be way slower although with a 4 man stack it would still be pretty good.
 

Talaysen

Member
I posted a thread with an idea for balancing Crushing Blow:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10701150023

I think this would work pretty well for removing the pressure toward high attack speed builds. In the on-hit calculation, your crushing blow chance would be divided by your APS. That way it doesn't matter if you're running with a big 2H build at 1 APS or fast 1h at 3 APS - your average crushing blows per second stays the same and only depends on your crushing blow chance, instead of CB % x APS.

(posting in the OT as well as the RoS beta thread since the same APS-normalizing method could be used for other effects in the game - maybe they can bump up overall proc rate if APS scaling is no longer a problem, so things become more 2H-friendly)

I don't really like the idea since it's kind of unintuitive. I think the issue is that crushing blow is just so incredibly important that the only thing that matters is increasing how often you proc crushing blow, even if it's the expense of other things. If crushing blow wasn't so powerful, there wouldn't be a problem. Life on hit also scales with attack speed and is important, but 2H builds can still work because it's not so ridiculously overpowered. They probably should increase the maximums of these affixes on 2H though. Life on hit only going up to twice that of 1H weapons means that life on hit will always be inferior on 2H weapons since you can dual wield 1Hs. If they upped it to say 3x, then you could make a 2H life on hit build just as easily as with 1H.

Also, increased attack speed increasing procs per second actually makes it more interesting compared to Yet Another Damage Affix.

Yeah, I think they need to tune those proc coefficients for CB. I'm not sure it's even affected by proc coefficient right now, which would explain a lot of the OP behaviour people are seeing.

No, mobs don't have mitigation as far as I know. I was just thinking of that earlier today, thinking of something like a corrosion affix that destroys armour, or a similar thing for resists, but mobs don't have those. The good news is we could accomplish the same sort of thing by adding an affix that adds a stacking damage multiplier debuff on the mobs. I put up a reddit thread for that idea earlier:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/1rfku7/new_primary_affix_chance_of_stacking_takes_more/

Apparently Guild Wars 2 has a mechanic like this called Vulnerability (coincidentally) and it just has a lower cap. For it to be in the same ballpark as crushing blow, I would remove the cap on it and give it exponential scaling for the damage multiplier as additional stacks are applied.

Honestly, I don't think the exponential scaling is necessary. A stacking additive debuff could still be very powerful. If it's something without a cap then the damage you deal scales quadratically over time.

If you're looking for a straight up direct replacement, then the exponential scaling would be better, but why does there to be such a replacement?

Regarding legendary drop rate in RoS beta: I'm assuming that drops are all overtuned by a significant amount for the beta. I wouldn't expect to see nearly as much of anything when it releases.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
I'd rather go without crushing blow or similarly scaling debuffs, personally. It breaks the effort/reward to have exponential HP reduced to linear time. If they're keeping crushing blow, though, there are all sorts of similarly scaling affixes they could make. I hope they decide against it since they're shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to further progression. No matter what they did it would only add a few seconds to a fight instead of minutes.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Drop rates sort of have to be around that level because the game is entirely self found. You also have to realize that many of these players are going through an accelerated pace due to abusing stuff that will obviously be fixed.

And yeah Crushing Blow generally goes counter to what they are trying to do with RoS. Enemy damage and HP is so high that you can't really kill them without using high DPS and a really strong build plus lots of mitigation. That means you need to maximize everything and with Crushing Blow you get to skip a bunch of affixes because its just so good.

If the game had enemies with less health then Crushing Blow might be alright like let's say Diablo 2 but this is a different game of course.

I also think the immunity rings are a bull shit. I think those rings should come with a similar modifier to what is on the Ice Climbers (which are also OP) which basically states "Cold/Fire/Lightning damage reduced by 35%". That's a big defense boost towards that element but its not complete immunity. I thought Blizzard wanted to go away from this immunity shit when they took out element immune mobs, now they are just going the other way by giving the player immunity which is honestly even more stupid. Some bosses like that new fire boss can't even do 1 point of damage to a fire immune character and with crushing blow that character could kill that boss at LVL1!
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Fffffffffffff, I have no idea what kind of gear I should be using for my WD/DH.
 

MrDaravon

Member
Fffffffffffff, I have no idea what kind of gear I should be using for my WD/DH.

Ooh, ooh, something I can actually help someone with on here for once! :D

At very low-to mid MP (which I'm guessing is what you'd be doing with the DH) the standard DH build is going to be a cookie cutter HA/BL build that looks something like this: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#iahgVd!eXZ!acZYcb

I personally would recommend Smokescreen over Tumble, Perfectionist instead of Tactical Advantage, and Sharpshooter over Night Stalker (at least until your crit % hits ~45, then switch to Night Stalker). The build itself is very straightforward, just do BL into masses of enemies and do HA as needed to restore Hatred and/or on single targets. HA/BL is only really effective up until mid-MP, past there the builds change quite a bit but you'd be a ways off from that. Assuming you're not going super seriously into DH-land, the gearing is going to be the same for about any of these builds with one or two exceptions that only matter for specific higher level builds. You want to look for:

Bow - Manticore. Always always this. Inarguably BiS for DH's unless you're running a 1h xbow which is only one specific build at higher MPs. Manticores can also roll 2 sockets, but you can get one socket ones for dirt cheap since they drop often. They always roll at least IAS, CD, socket, you can probably get a cheap one with Dex and maybe Vit.
Quiver - Dead Man's Legacy. Also inarguably BiS. They always roll with one DH skill bonus, don't worry about that, just get one with the best IAS/Dex/Vit you can for your budget.
Helm - At super starter level your best choice is probably an Adariel's Visage. It has the additional fire damage taken problem, but it's dirt cheap and it always rolls 8-9% IAS and 4.5% CD. On the US AH you can get ones with 150+ Dex and a socket for 500k. Stick a Vit gem in the socket if you get one with a socket.
Chest - You have multiple options here, but even at lower levels I would still probably recommend the Nat chest; the 3-set bonus is pretty good, and it rolls Dex, Life %, 3 sockets, a DH skill and a 2(?) random affixes. You can go for a double dex roll + Vit and Max Disc, etc. Some other chests might be a bit tankier but the 3-set bonus on this is good, and if you can I'd highly recommend getting one with Max Disc on it so you don't have to get that on your quiver (Max Disc on a DML reduces the possible stats it can roll).
Belt - Either the Inna belt or a Witching Hour. The Inna belt is a dirt cheap option, and since you're goign to be getting the Inna pants that 2-set dex bonus is nice. The WH is inarguably BiS though and prices have come down considerably. I would see if you could get a cheap WH with Dex and either Vit or AR on it, but if that's just not going to happen then Inna belt is a good short-term option.
Pants - Inna pants, inarguably BiS. Try to get 9% IAS (rolls either 8 or 9) then you can either go for a 100+ Dex roll, or sub-100 Dex with Vit. You can get 100+ Dex and Vit but that will probably be out of your starting budget.
Boots - Nat boots, again BiS here. Don't worry about trying to get Vit, and they always roll with AR and armor. Just get the highest dex you can here to start off. This plus the chest will give you the two set bonus which is +7% CC which is HUGE and a must have!
Shoulders - Craft, or just starting off you can probably get a Dex + Vit Vile Wards cheap.
Gloves - Craft, or if you're buying just go for Dex + CC + CD with some kind of Vit and/or AR in there depending on what you can afford.
Bracers - Craft, or if buying just go for the Dex + Vit/AR + CC you can afford. I'm personally not really a fan of the Lacunis in general, but in this build you're already going to have max MS% anyway so that shouldn't be a factor. Strongarm Bracers may be a good specific option, they always roll CC and Life %.
Ammy - No specific DH ammy really, just go for Dex + Avg Damage + CC + CD as you can afford. eHP (Vit/AR) is a luxury item on jewelry, if you can get it great but don't sacrifice DPS for it.
Rings - Snag a cheap Nat ring; this will give you the 3 set bonus of 130 Dex which at low levels will make up for any other stats you're missing on it. They also always roll 8 or 9% IAS. Getting CC as well is usually much more expensive, but CD might be a doable cheap option. For the other ring just go for whatever with Avg Damage + Dex + CC. For a specific recommendation the Unity is really solid; they're pretty cheap and always roll good avg damage, a primary stat, CC, LoH and elite damage. IAS and CD will probably be out of your price range for the one random roll on them but you could probably get Vit pretty cheap.

Ignore the skill setup, but you can look at my DH here, except for the helm it's set up in pretty much the exact same way.

This is my DH: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Tunesmith-1650/hero/5599681
Caveat being I didn't play 1.0.5 onwards and only just now got back to it. :p

I would highly suggest dropping Breathe Deep on Smokescreen for Lingering Fog (BD is useless) and Battle Scars on Prep for Backup Plan.

Also Steady Aim is largely useless once you hit Inferno MP1+ because there's just no way to kill things fast enough to maintain the distance in most encounters. I'd suggest either Night Stalker (if your CC is ~45% or higher, it makes a much bigger difference than I thought before I tried it) or Perfectionist.
 

Tunesmith

formerly "chigiri"
I would highly suggest dropping Breathe Deep on Smokescreen for Lingering Fog (BD is useless) and Battle Scars on Prep for Backup Plan.

Also Steady Aim is largely useless once you hit Inferno MP1+ because there's just no way to kill things fast enough to maintain the distance in most encounters. I'd suggest either Night Stalker (if your CC is ~45% or higher, it makes a much bigger difference than I thought before I tried it) or Perfectionist.

Yeah my skills were leftovers from eons ago, updated with your suggestions. Also changed some gear around (new glove/amu). :)
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
MrDaravon, THANK YOU SO MUCH! I'll look into this as soon as I get home!
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
On the bus now :3! Mere minutes till I get to try this sucker out!
 
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