The Omega Man
Member
OwE is safe (for now again)!!!! praise the lord!!!!
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Diablo III |OT5| Finally out of Beta
- Thread starter CarbonatedFalcon
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I already use storm armor (scramble rune) and I imagine that's what all wizards will soon be using. Actually, it depends on how "player 8" functions as movement speed may not be necessary since by increasing monster power you will spend more time fighting champions and less running around.
Wow, those are some heavy drops; especially for Wiz, mine already dies super fast with energy/prismatic armor. My DH will be 60 very shortly, so more playstyles sound very nice.
HEAVY DROPS. o.o
HEAVY DROPS. o.o
NaturalHigh
Member
Holy crap at the Sieze the Initiative nerf...
Shocked to see OwE escaped the nerf but Blizzard seems adamant to bring it down in a future patch. This is basically warning to start weening off the passive slowly.
Damn that's a HUGE Inferno nerf.
My first reaction: holy shit I am dead.
"25% inferno nerf damage"
-- lol, my monk is going naked
I didn't read the link, just the copy pasted info at first. But, yeah, should be a net buff and, most importantly, potentially freeing up some passive slots. Though, we'll probably still run the majority of the defensive stuff and just tackle harder content with it :|
Basically, baseline Inferno will be (even) easier but you can scale it up as you get better gear. Not a bad tradeoff, honestly.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I like how every class has a bunch of defensive skills available, while WD's only has Jungle Fortitude.
I don't have the math on me but....
Two days ago I made the transition from Hell to Inferno on my Barb. Now it was a long ass time since I "climbed the wall" and there had been at least 2 nerfs to Inferno since then. I died quite a few times on Hell and even had a couple deaths on Diablo. I made it to Inferno Act 1 and I basically completed all the way to the Skeleton King without dying too much. After I decided to gear up seriously for Inferno using the AH... Act 1 and probably Act 2 has become a joke now. I didn't even spend more than a million gold on the AH and I already felt too powerful with the Barb.
I seriously have to wonder now if Act 1 Inferno actually is easier than Act 4 Hell in patch 1.05.
I am also shocked to see no changes on Sprint. WW Barbs are still king and I see no reason to change my skill bar.
I wonder if the Monster upgrade system allows you to increase their damage too. I wonder if we can increase values to the point of ORIGINAL 1.00 Inferno and beyond. I also hope the loot is better.
Two days ago I made the transition from Hell to Inferno on my Barb. Now it was a long ass time since I "climbed the wall" and there had been at least 2 nerfs to Inferno since then. I died quite a few times on Hell and even had a couple deaths on Diablo. I made it to Inferno Act 1 and I basically completed all the way to the Skeleton King without dying too much. After I decided to gear up seriously for Inferno using the AH... Act 1 and probably Act 2 has become a joke now. I didn't even spend more than a million gold on the AH and I already felt too powerful with the Barb.
I seriously have to wonder now if Act 1 Inferno actually is easier than Act 4 Hell in patch 1.05.
I am also shocked to see no changes on Sprint. WW Barbs are still king and I see no reason to change my skill bar.
I wonder if the Monster upgrade system allows you to increase their damage too. I wonder if we can increase values to the point of ORIGINAL 1.00 Inferno and beyond. I also hope the loot is better.
Now you understand why I said yesterday Monk is not the cheapest class to gear, especially when you take into account how fast WW Barbs can farm.
Fenderputty
Banned
So a net 25% damage reduction to inferno.
What's the formula to figure out how much armor negates damage coming in? I would lose about 1100 armor from this. Seems like the biggest loss was to transcendence. The 5% reduction to resolve doesn't seem that much.
I'm trying to figure out if that actually does afford me the ability to shed a defensive skill.
It seems like keeping my skills the same and going for more difficulty is more likely.
Glad they didn't just flat out nerf OWE. It seems like they're trying to figure out how to do this without affecting our gear. Though I don't know how that's possible.
What's the formula to figure out how much armor negates damage coming in? I would lose about 1100 armor from this. Seems like the biggest loss was to transcendence. The 5% reduction to resolve doesn't seem that much.
I'm trying to figure out if that actually does afford me the ability to shed a defensive skill.
It seems like keeping my skills the same and going for more difficulty is more likely.
Glad they didn't just flat out nerf OWE. It seems like they're trying to figure out how to do this without affecting our gear. Though I don't know how that's possible.
The Omega Man
Member
Looking at that Seize the Initiative nerf, Monks are going to lose around 1k armor, and if you decide to replace it with another passive you're going to lose around 2k armor, The Inferno nerf has to be significant in order to consider a melee class to drop 2k of armor.
I am going to lose around 800 armor which is huge, won't matter with the 25% enemy damage reduction. But losing that much is bad for pvp. Basically barbs will have at least 2-3k more armor than monks as well as having at least 900+ resist. They also mention they upcoming One with everything nerf meaning it's time to get rid if your one resist focued gear and go for all resist. But then the all resist gear market will be way more expensive since that's demon hunter territory.
Armor / (Armor + 50 * EnemyLevel)
Incidentally, going from 7000 Armor to, say, 5000 Armor means going from ~69% to ~61% reduction. Assuming an across the board 25% damage reduction, you're coming out slightly ahead.
Edit: To put it in perspective, if you were to be hit for 10,000, pre-patch would take ~3103 damage and post-patch would take ~2899 damage assuming a 25% base reduction.
Fenderputty
Banned
That's what I'm trying to figure out. Which one makes more sense to lose, if any. This was supposed to give us the flexibility to expand builds. I'm curious if it affords me that luxury.
Fixing One With Everything seems trivial to me. Instead of the current effect, have it do this:
"Individual resistances on your equipment no longer increase that resistance. Instead, they increase all resistances by x% of that value."
Monks would no longer be absurdly limited in their high-end gear selection. The % value could be easily adjusted for balance. As long as the % isn't too low, Monks could continue to use their existing gear without issue.
Done.
"Individual resistances on your equipment no longer increase that resistance. Instead, they increase all resistances by x% of that value."
Monks would no longer be absurdly limited in their high-end gear selection. The % value could be easily adjusted for balance. As long as the % isn't too low, Monks could continue to use their existing gear without issue.
Done.
Fenderputty
Banned
turnbuckle
Member
Like the change. This may get me to switch from impunity to the dodge rune, or I may forgo warcry altogether and opt for leap. Most of the times I die right now are when I get trapped in a circle of enemies and have no way of getting out.
The Omega Man
Member
my armor is like 3.5 k without seize the initiative and without enchantress and I have endgame gear, so right now, I really really don't think I am dropping seize the initiative anytime soon
64.80% -> 53.33% or 3520 -> 3500 using the same sample damage numbers.
The Resolve change is a comparable change. Probably more significant as your armor improved though I'd have to run more numbers.
Edit: Rough estimate is that if you're losing more than 40-ish% of your Armor by dropping StI, you'll probably end up at a net loss with the 25% damage reduction across the board. If you're losing less than that, you're better off post-patch without StI than you were with it pre-patch.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
This patch will be a huge buff to DHs. 25% damage reduction plus buffs to Gloom (and no nerfs to SS) should mean I'll be able to clear Act 3 with ease (finally), with no changes to my current gear.
Alterations to Companion and Sentry may be worth trying out as well. Plus whatever other changes to passives/runes that they mentioned, but didn't detail.
Alterations to Companion and Sentry may be worth trying out as well. Plus whatever other changes to passives/runes that they mentioned, but didn't detail.
If my calculations are correct, you'd be taking almost exactly the same damage in 1.05:
5800 armor: You take 35.20% of incoming damage (vs level 63 enemies)
3600 armor: You take 46.67% of incoming damage (vs level 63 enemies)
-25% damage: You take the equivalent of 35.00% of incoming damage (vs level 63 enemies)
Edit: So cutting Seize the Initiative entirely would result in taking slightly less damage in 1.05 than you're currently taking in 1.04 with Seize the Initiative. Post-nerf, Resolve will be better than Seize the Initiative, assuming you keep the Resolve debuff up.
The Omega Man
Member
So if I decide to keep Seize the initiative and lose only 1k instead of 2k, would that be a buff to armour with the new patch? at the end of the day what matters is mitigation against elites, for trash mobs 1k 2k difference doesn't really matter
Fenderputty
Banned
I'm in the same boat. Though it looks like when you consider dex and all resist total damage reduction might not be that bad.
http://messor.fi/D3/
If that's accurate my going from 5800 armor to 3600 armor is a total damange recution loss from 92.9% to 90.6% all other things being equal.
If the total damage went down 25% I'm assuming this loss isn't much of a loss?
Basically, unless you're some fringe Monk with almost half your Armor coming from your DEX, you're better off post-patch even without Seize the Initiative. Keeping it around will mean you're better defensively post-patch than before but the impact it has won't be that big of a deal (4700 Armor with 25% reduction means you're taking 30.10% damage instead of 35% without it).
And, remember, it was "at least 25%" reduction across the board.
Post-patch without StI, you'd have 92.95% total reduction vs the 92.9% pre-patch with StI.
And, remember, it was "at least 25%" reduction across the board.
Post-patch without StI, you'd have 92.95% total reduction vs the 92.9% pre-patch with StI.
The value of Seize the Initiative varies depending on your base armor, but judging from the math on Fenderputty's stats, I'm fairly confident that anyone who keeps Seize the Initiative in 1.05 will end up taking less damage than they currently do.
Going from 90.6% to 92.9% damage reduction is almost exactly equivalent to reducing damage by 25%.
Fenderputty
Banned
Hmmm ... so ... maybe I will try something different. Fleet foot maybe instead of transendence?
Does this make guardians path more appealing? I thought dodge % scaled differently than armor.
The total net buff if I stay the same makes scaling difficulties interesting too. I wonder what the "rewards" will be. EXP? Loot?
Hmmmm ... this is interesting. Will wait to see what I do based on the scaling difficulties thing.
The Omega Man
Member
well I just checked, I am exactly at 3.3k without seize the initiative and without enchantress, I a have a complete Inna's set so I aint changing my gear any time soon.
So is 3.3k to low? I can use enchantress is solo play that'll take me to 3.9 maybe? I dunno, I am going to try but don't see myself dropping seize the initiate
So is 3.3k to low? I can use enchantress is solo play that'll take me to 3.9 maybe? I dunno, I am going to try but don't see myself dropping seize the initiate
I'd take it a step farther and say that pretty much every single Monk shouldn't be worse off post-patch without Seize the Initiative compared to where they are right now with it. The exceptions are if you have an absurd amount of DEX but with next to no Armor.
The relevant bit would be what is your DEX. Off-hand, you'd need somewhere in the 2000s (2200 or so?) for you to be worse post-patch without StI than you are pre-patch with it.
Fenderputty
Banned
Dodge % buffs are all multiplicative. Basically if you use The Guardian's Path, you'll only be hit by 85% of the attacks that you would've been hit by before. You'll basically take (on average) 85% of the damage you did without it, regardless of any other factors.
This is actually what I am thinking. I've always enjoyed leap but war cry was just too good. Will try switching them out and see what happens. For WW it's the only skill that doesn't do anything for the spec specifically, as in, the only thing you could realistically drop. So here's to hoping I can switch it for something else.
MrPing1000
Member
At least the dev are aware that the DH is a shitty class.
Surprised they didn't say anything about smoke screen.
Surprised they didn't say anything about smoke screen.
Yeah, I was hedging my bets. By "fairly confident", I meant "unless I completely screwed up my math."
Personally, I don't think it'll be worth taking anymore for most Monks. With my stats, 1.05 Seize the Initiative will be worth slightly more than 10% damage reduction, and that's just not very impressive. I'll probably end up keeping Resolve, and swapping out Seize the Initiative for something else.
To be fair, I'm hedging my bets too with my exception :x Like, if Fenderputty had just a bit more DEX (~2350 instead of ~2200), he'd be worse post-patch than he was pre-patch. By some practically insignificant amount, mind you, but still ever-so-slightly worse.
Basically, just do (Armor * .4) and check that versus your DEX. If that result is less than your DEX, you're going to see better damage reduction post-patch without Seize the Initiative. If that result is higher than your DEX, you're going to see worse damage reduction post-patch without Seize the Initiative
Fenderputty
Banned
What would you be interested in dropping it for. I'm thinking either a spirit generator or fleet footed.
I'm also curious to see how the scaling difficulties thing will work. What the "rewards" are. Maybe I'll be farming there instead of just the standard difficulty of inferno.
Personally, Fleet Footed for farming runs, Guiding Light for "I want to hit things harder."
You mean sell it to the NPC? so it's worth nothing...
It's also worth noting that Resolve is getting nerfed too. So if you're currently running both, and you drop Seize the Initiative in 1.05, you could end up taking slightly more damage. (Assuming you don't replace it with a different defensive passive, of course.)
My own Monk is on the low side for DEX, so I'll actually end up taking about the same damage in 1.05 even counting the Resolve nerf.
The Guardian's Path, Transcendence, Fleet Footed, Exalted Soul, and Chant of Resonance all look appealing to me. Been meaning to check out the new Exalted Soul with added spirit generation, but it wasn't worth dropping a defensive passive.
(I currently have no spirit generation on my gear, and I really miss having it.)
Fenderputty
Banned
michaelius
Banned
List it for 10-20k leveling weapons are worth something.
BTW at first i was sad about gloom then i realised it will be up all the time with Legacy Natalya
BTW at first i was sad about gloom then i realised it will be up all the time with Legacy Natalya
Yeah. Using the numbers we've had so far, 35.20% pre-patch with StI vs 35.00% post-patch without will be 26.4% vs 28% after Resolve (vs 30% for post-patch with StI but no Resolve vs 24% for post-patch with StI and Resolve).
Yes.
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