He kills him and then commits suicide, hence the empty last panel.
He kills him and then commits suicide, hence the empty last panel.
First he's speculating by saying "maybe this is our last chance" and when he says that they're locked onto a suicide course he's just affirming that he'll work to stop Joker until the day they both die. It doesn't make sense that just because Joker says it's an impossibility that Batman would now decide "fuck it, I'm gonna kill him." Killing Joke is partly about who these two characters are and it showcases that they will not err in their ways no matter the circumstance. For Batman it was Barbara being crippled and having nude photos taken of her, for Joker it was his very rival offering him an out.
No.Joker stopped laughing and was struck dumb when he realized Batman was really laughing. That's it. Joker just suddenly stopped laughing. Isn't that more dramatic than Batman stopping him laughing by killing him?
I agree, it's entirely open to interpretation. I'm just offering my view of it.He wants to help him, but he's also not going to give him an ultimatum that includes a death threat, since that's exactly what Joker seems to want anyways.
It's ambiguous, and the only thing I 100% believe at this point is that Moore wanted it that way. The main thing that frustrates me is anyone pointing towards "proof" of one theory or the other, considering that just about every piece of supposed "proof" has been used effectively as evidence for both arguments.
Although it'd be cool to have that sort of ambiguity in the ending, there is absolutely nothing suggesting he kills him besides baseless fan speculation.
He puts his hand on his shoulder, the script clearly ends with them leaning together and laughing
Did Batman strangle the ambulance too, since it stops making noise?
He strangled the ambulance's lights, which turn off in the final panel for some reason.
Dat panel doe
That puts the ending to The Killing Joke in a new light.
The lights at the end of the panel go off because they saw Batman kill the Joker and realized an ambulance was no longer needed.
The lights at the end of the panel go off because they saw Batman kill the Joker and realized an ambulance was no longer needed.
That's a cop car coming towards them right? The noise just stops because they just witnessed Batman kill the Joker.
But then again, they could've stopped because they saw the bats laughing at with the Joker. That's the "Killing Joke". Them both going crazy.
That's a cop car coming towards them right? The noise just stops because they just witnessed Batman kill the Joker.
But then again, they could've stopped because they saw the bats laughing at with the Joker. That's the "Killing Joke". Them both going crazy.
why would they turn off their sirens if they witnessed a murder
i thought that other guy was joking
Because it's batman seen committing the murder. Then again, why would the sirens just stop? Or why would there be no more laughter? Why does EVERYTHING just stop?
Because it's meant to be a bookend to the beginning of the book. The 'camera' pulls in so close to the rippling puddle that all other sounds and sights are relegated to non-essential.
So then how could anyone deduct that neither Batman killed the Joker or they both lived from this?
So then how could anyone deduct that neither Batman killed the Joker or they both lived from this?
I can't even make sense of the bottom three panels. What are they supposed to be?
I agree with Alan Moore. The Killing Joke isn't very good. Joker quits his day job to try to be a comedian. When that doesn't work out, instead of going back to his day job, he takes on a highly illegal and highly dangerous mob job. He doesn't have just one bad day like he said, he's had to have a whole shit ton of bad days to make such poor judgement. Then his family randomly dying is really contrived, too.
That said, I appreciate the ending more if Batman doesn't kill Joker. Batman already breaks by laughing at Joker's joke. He doesn't need to break again by killing Joker.
I agree that it's a pretty mediocre book. But, the kind of lame origin story is redeemed by the fact Joker bails out on it at the end. I think that's the best part of the story. You're told the entire time that this is it, and then at the end he's just like "fuck it, I don't actually know that's how it happened." That's pretty good.
I agree with Alan Moore. The Killing Joke isn't very good. Joker quits his day job to try to be a comedian. When that doesn't work out, instead of going back to his day job, he takes on a highly illegal and highly dangerous mob job. He doesn't have just one bad day like he said, he's had to have a whole shit ton of bad days to make such poor judgement. Then his family randomly dying is really contrived, too.
That said, I appreciate the ending more if Batman doesn't kill Joker. Batman already breaks by laughing at Joker's joke. He doesn't need to break again by killing Joker.
I've read The Killing Joke a couple of times and never thought about how implausible Joker's origin is. Learn something new everyday lol.I agree with Alan Moore. The Killing Joke isn't very good. Joker quits his day job to try to be a comedian. When that doesn't work out, instead of going back to his day job, he takes on a highly illegal and highly dangerous mob job. He doesn't have just one bad day like he said, he's had to have a whole shit ton of bad days to make such poor judgement. Then his family randomly dying is really contrived, too.
That said, I appreciate the ending more if Batman doesn't kill Joker. Batman already breaks by laughing at Joker's joke. He doesn't need to break again by killing Joker.
I'm fairly convinced Moore snuck this in there for people to interpret it that way, given how very exact he wants each panel to be. He rarely spent time on arbitrary storytelling, so was he really just going for a moody outtro? Doubtful.
But it wasn't intended to be in continuity. So arguments from that perspective don't count if we're talking about TKJ and Moore's intention.
Moore also wrote the last Superman story in this era. Watchmen was the last superhero story (written to be, anyway). This is kind of what he was doing at the time.
Yeah, I can't think of them laughing without thinking about these panels:
No. Jim Gordon made it very clear to batman to not go over the edge and to bring him in by the book. The whole point was to show that one bad day can turn you insane, but Jim didn't go insane, he proved the joker wrong.
Is pretty much bullshit seeing how DC didn't have any plans for Barbara Gordon after the Killing Joke. It's only thanks to Kim Yale and John Ostrander that Barbara Gordon came back as Oracle in the first run of the Suicide Squad story.Some have pointed out that the best evidence against Morrison’s point is Barbara Gordon. During The Killing Joke‘s events, The Joker shoots her through the spine, paralyzing her below the waist – and setting the foundation for her transformation into the Oracle. The fact that the Oracle repeatedly shows up in subsequent Batman features and that The Joker continues to be a thorn in Batman’s side solidifies The Killing Joke‘s events as canon. Then again, Alan Moore himself has indicated that he never intended for the book to be in continuity – that was DC’s idea.
Superman: Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?What Superman story was it?
Yeah, I can't think of them laughing without thinking about these panels: