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[Dehnus]

I really am not a fan of Iran, although I am a fan of the Iran deal and hope that one day the nation will be far more progressive, as it stands now it is like a place were I would be killed on sight. But, on the international stage, with Trump just more or less pulling out of the Iran deal (also due to Lobbies pushing him to do so). Did Iran just have a diplomatic victory?

I mean:
http://www.politico.eu/article/fede...d&utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=RSS_Syndication
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ment-of-france-germany-and-the-united-kingdom
Basically all other parties involved just turned against the US and call them out on it. And they are correct they cannot pull the agreement without consulting. The others simply would continue.

But also Iran's response of:
http://thehill.com/policy/internati...nt-denounces-trumps-disavowal-of-nuclear-deal

Which more or less is an "See we told you they couldn't be trusted!" and "We are now more than ever united together against you, Mister Trump.". It seems a bit bold internationally to say that about nations allied together in military agreements (like NATO) but also in economic interests usually (even though Trump is steering The USS America First, right into a few Trade wars).

Did the US really damage their international interested that much today? Or is it all just a facade and do you think the other parties (outside of Iran) will fall in line and just follow the USA?

 

[andythinkpad]

Do you really have to phase these sentences as questions?

 

[Orbis]

Yep. The US looks more isolated internationally than ever.

 

[PJV3]

It's an open goal at the moment.

 

[Dehnus]

Do you really have to phase these sentences as questions?

Sigh, I have a lot of Firefox crashes lately. So I tried to write as fast as possible. There is something with the latest build that doesn't seem to agree with my current install. I think I'll switch to my Linux Laptop soon, as my W10 machine is a mess right now .

So sorry I inconvenienced your delicate grammar sensitivities .

But all kidding about your sensitivity, aside. I do wondered about it today, it just seemed like Trump just drove a wedge between himself and his allies.

It's an open goal at the moment.

But, there must be advisors to the Republican party that can see that this really looks bad on an international stage. If even the UK, in the middle of the Brexit negotiations, partners up with Germany and France to make a statement about it... against Trumps decision.

 

[Trojita]

It's an open goal at the moment.

Yup. I was going to use the analogy that it is like playing a fighting game with the handicap being that your opponent has 1 unit of health at the start of the match.

 

[epmode]

it just seemed like Trump just drove a wedge between himself and his allies.

What else is new?

 

[Jeels]

Like most things this administration and its supporters believe in doing, this action has consequences that harm, not help, the US or its standing in the world.

these people are literally jokes. Until we have new people in power the US has no standing in the world.

 

[sflufan]

The US just effectively scored an own goal.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Yes, now the US is unreliable, Iran will go to the EU for the same deal without us.

 

[Kolx]

Can the deal hold without the US? and will the EU give up its biggest ally for the deal?

 

[Dehnus]

Yes, now the US is unreliable, Iran will go to the EU for the same deal without us.

I don't know if that is positive or negative yet. The EU is a bit too fractured sometimes on these things.

I just hope that the following 3 years will go fast and that we'll get a better option than the Republicans as allies. As currently it seems they are willing to see the world burn, just to get a few bucks from a lobby group.

The US just effectively scored an own goal.

Heh, can't deny I'm chuckling about that one .

Like most things this administration and its supporters believe in doing, this action has consequences that harm, not help, the US or its standing in the world.

these people are literally jokes. Until we have new people in power the US has no standing in the world.

Well I do hope it's not that dramatic, even the Republican party used to have a few great people on foreign affairs. They might be old by now, but I'm sure they still have some weight in these matters.

Or that might just be me hoping for a better outcome than a 70+ year old manchild + his party throwing temper tantrums for money. But maybe the Europeans can put some pressure on him and the GOP to not make this mistake. Behind the scenes of course, as if you do it too publicly, you'll have the Republican party feeling they have to proof "they are not weak, and won't do what other powers tell them to do!".

 

[Dehnus]

Can the deal hold without the US? and will the EU give up its biggest ally for the deal?

Yeah, that is also what I wonder. This would fracture them economically. IF the EU trades with Iran and the US doesn't, it basically creates a fractured front. Divide and conquer. That is if the EU is too wishy washy, if it is done well, than the US has just locked itself out of the room and the EU can make some major strides in becoming a major power in the Middle East.

But either are not as good an option as the EU and US as friends in this rather than adversaries. But that's just my opinion, maybe I think too "evil" of Iran.

 

[Dude Abides]

Iran more respected and trusted on the international stage than the US. What a time to be alive.

 

[squidyj]

Heh, can't deny I'm not chuckling about that one .

you can deny that you are chuckling?

 

[turmoil]

Yes, now the US is unreliable, Iran will go to the EU for the same deal without us.

If the US pulls out, it can only be understood as they wanting a war.

Why would Iran go to the EU for a piece of paper instead of restarting their nuclear program ASAP

 

[Dehnus]

you can deny that you are chuckling?

Yeah, I see it now. Like said, I'll switch to the Laptop where I can proof read and keep up better. Sorry for offending you .

 

[nature boy]

TPP
Paris Climate deal
UNESCO (ok, some law)
Iran deal

Pretty obvious

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

I don't know if that is positive or negative yet. The EU is a bit too fractured sometimes on these things.
.

Which lies the problem, a potential deal sans US lacks the unified leadership to keep the watchful eye on the nuclear supply line. That and the EU lacks the ability to threaten them militarily.

 

[Dehnus]

If the US pulls out, it can only be understood as they wanting a war.

Why would Iran go to the EU for a piece of paper instead of restarting their nuclear program ASAP

Well if they are as dastardly as I'm worried for, then you are correct, they'd play the EU like a fiddle.

But if the EU is competent about it, and Iran is not as bad as I think they are: Then it is trade, tourism, economic interests and possible making a new friend with diplomatic interests (which kind of scares me as a Gay, Autistic Norwegian of Jewish descent LOL, but that might not be logical ).

It would normalize Iran on the international playing field, and would strengthen the EU on it as a major power.

But that is if they proof competent. At the moment I think of Iran as the Shia version of Saudi Arabia. Scary and wants to kill me . Which might be emotional and illogical sorry.

 

[Dyle]

Luigi is Iran. Iran doesn't have to do anything here and they win, but just like Mario Party, in the end nobody wins

This is doubly bad for the US since it proves to North Korea that we don't hold up our end of the bargain, which will only make negotiation harder in the future

 

[Dehnus]

Luigi is Iran. Iran doesn't have to do anything here and they win, but just like Mario Party, in the end nobody wins

This is doubly bad for the US since it proves to North Korea that we don't hold up our end of the bargain, which will only make negotiation harder in the future

Well in the worst case scenario: Nukes from NK go to Iran, Oil from Iran goes to NK. But that might be an unlikely doom scenario. All with all this is not a favorable outcome for anybody involved. Unless maybe long term if it all goes well and Iran's government and military leadership simply isn't as nefarious as some of us believe (me included).

 

[innervision961]

Man I gotta tell ya, being on the inside looking out, watching putin win a war without firing a single shot... it’s really impressive and heartbreaking at the same time.

 

[Mimosa97]

Even worse than the US losing ground on the international stage, Trump just gave a massive win to the most fanatical branch of the iranian political spectrum. The mollahs were against the deal. It was a baby conceived by the " progressives " and Rohani won reelection on the back of the deal. Now if the west stabs Iran in the back then we might see the radical fringe of iranian politics use this to get in power.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Yep, Eu and Iran look like the good guys, while the US looks like the untrustworthy party trying to start a war.

There is no reason for any 'rogue state' to negotiate with the US so long as trump is in office he cann't be trusted.

 

[Acorn]

Do you really have to phase these sentences as questions?

I wonder if he's Aussie.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Even worse than the US losing ground on the international stage, Trump just gave a massive win to the most fanatical branch of the iranian political spectrum. The mollahs were against the deal. It was a baby conceived by the " progressives " and Rohani won reelection on the back of the deal. Now if the west stabs Iran in the back then we might see the radical fringe of iranian politics use this to get in power.

You act like that's not exactly what Netan wants.

 

[Tovarisc]

Yep, Eu and Iran look like the good guys, while the US looks like the untrustworthy party trying to start a war.

There is no reason for any 'rogue state' to negotiate with the US so long as trump is in office he cann't be trusted.

NKorea has always had trust issues with West and big reason why negotiations have been less than fruitful with them. What do you think this stunt by Trump does to that already fragile relationship for decades to come?

NKorea just lost every last reason they had to trust and negotiate any kind deal with US / West. Change in US president wont fix that.

 

[nampad]

When your opponent is Trump, you are already a winner (except when you are called crooked Hillary)

 

[Jeels]

Man I gotta tell ya, being on the inside looking out, watching putin win a war without firing a single shot... it’s really impressive and heartbreaking at the same time.

He did say their new weapon was more powerful and impact-ful than anything from previous wars.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Like most things this administration and its supporters believe in doing, this action has consequences that harm, not help, the US or its standing in the world.

these people are literally jokes. Until we have new people in power the US has no standing in the world.

It won't matter who the next president is when the US can't be trusted and one election can throw us off in a wild direction. Damage is done.

We're crumbling and no one had to even face us in war.

 

[Dehnus]

It won't matter who the next president is when the US can't be trusted and one election can throw us off in a wild direction. Damage is done.

We're crumbling and no one had to even face us in war.

Well, if by some change Michelle Obama can run and win . That would mean the first black woman for president, and Barack Obama as first spouse .

But yeah erm, I am afraid you are correct there was long term damage already after Bush, and after Trump (especially if he becomes a 2 term president), the damage might actually be even more long term.

 

[Zeus Molecules]

Of course they did all Trump does is make America Worse. Which makes sense since he works for one of our biggest competitors.

 

[Dehnus]

Of course they did all Trump does is make America Worse. Which makes sense since he works for one of our biggest competitors.

But I mean, it's Iran. They should be the easiest to win from. This is like failing to put a round peg in a round hole. This should be easy even for the Republicans to garner the favour of your allies and renegotiate a few things. Why do they keep pushing that square peg into a round hole and failing these simple things?

Sorry, it is an emotional statement, I just genuinely wonder about this. This should really be a piece of cake for the diplomatic advisors and envoys of the USA even with Republicans in charge.

 

[Mimosa97]

You act like that's not exactly what Netan wants.

And you act like that's not exactly what SA wants

Spoiler

I didn't think about Israel honestly but yeah it's a big win for them

 

[Dehnus]

And you act like that's not exactly what SA wants

Spoiler

I didn't think about Israel honestly but yeah it's a big win for them

Fuck I forgot about those bastards' interests (Saudi Arabia), they would love this. That explains a lot seeing how they have quite a few friends in high places in the US government. I think you might be onto something. Saudi Arabia also couldn't give one shit about Israël, US relations with Europe nor how bad the USA looks in all of this.

As for Israël, it's not that big a win for them. I wouldn't think that every Israëli is a fan of Netanyahu (in fact the guy is a corrupt arsehole that talks with holocaust deniers in Eastern Europe ), and I don't think that every Israëli wants the USA and the Europeans to start quarreling about Iran, in fact not even the right in Israël would want that, I'd say. Outside of some crazies within Likud and the crazy parties right of Likud.

But anybody from IsraelGaf that can enlighten me a bit more about that, I mean logically I don't see the point of how alienating the USA from it's allies favours Israël. Outside how Bibi can spin this as a "win" and deflect the investigations that are currently going on about him and his family.

 

[Ri'Orius]

Yeah, a diplomatic win. But as we all know, diplomacy is for losers. Real 'muricans know that the only win that counts involves guns and bombs, and the Iran deal itself was just Obama surrendering to the terrorists.

 

[Hlebalicious]

I really am not a fan of Iran, although I am a fan of the Iran deal and hope that one day the nation will be far more progressive, as it stands now it is like a place were I would be killed on sight. But, on the international stage, with Trump just more or less pulling out of the Iran deal (also due to Lobbies pushing him to do so). Did Iran just have a diplomatic victory?

I'm confused, who are you that you would be killed on sight in Iran?

 

[dripdripsplash]

I'm confused, who are you that you would be killed on sight in Iran?

Maybe an atheist or stuff

 

[Xando]

Can the deal hold without the US?

Of course. What is the US gonna do sanction europe, china and russia?

and will the EU give up its biggest ally for the deal?

The EU has been moving away from the US in a most unprecedened way in the past 70 years. Trump has approval ratings of less than 20% in most countries. It's not really hard to see why europe would rather stick to a deal that brings stability in it's front yard.

If the US pulls out, it can only be understood as they wanting a war.

Why would Iran go to the EU for a piece of paper instead of restarting their nuclear program ASAP

What US politicians don't tell you is that there isn't really a military option for iran. Just like with NK it would result in a major regional war which makes it far too costly.

 

[Dehnus]

I'm confused, who are you that you would be killed on sight in Iran?

No, I'm an openly homosexual man. That also practiced sex. Do you need more hints, or a drawing? .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Iran#Legal_status

Maybe an atheist or stuff

That and Jewish Ancestors doesn't help. Now they don't kill Jewish people on sight (there are Jewish People living in Iran for instance), but they aren't that keen on apostates of any of the Abrahamic religions .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Iran

Here is some more info about all the wonderful things that can get you into trouble in Iran, trouble of the lethal kind.

So I hope that answers your question and tells you why I'm not that keen on Iran as "tourist attraction" .

 

[Dehnus]

Of course. What is the US gonna do sanction europe, china and russia?

Well if they sanction everybody, wouldn't they effectively be sanctioning themselves ?

 

[yanipheonu]

Man I gotta tell ya, being on the inside looking out, watching putin win a war without firing a single shot... it’s really impressive and heartbreaking at the same time.

No doubt. It's like watching a game of Civilization where one side is clearly outmatched, but they used an unconventional technique to somehow turn it around.

Too bad it's real life and not a game.

 

[Hlebalicious]

No, I'm an openly homosexual man. That also practiced sex. Do you need more hints, or a drawing? .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Iran#Legal_status




That and Jewish Ancestors doesn't help. Now they don't kill Jewish people on sight (there are Jewish People living in Iran for instance), but they aren't that keen on apostates of any of the Abrahamic religions .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Iran

Here is some more info about all the wonderful things that can get you into trouble in Iran, trouble of the lethal kind.

So I hope that answers your question and tells you why I'm not that keen on Iran as "tourist attraction" .

I'm not doubting that Iran isn't that attractive of a tourist destination and some of their laws are heinous but no-one is "killed on sight" whether you are an atheist or homosexual as they have a functioning legal system that hears all supposed crimes. I was just asking because when I read that part of your post I thought you were referring to extra-judicial killings etc.

Anyway apologies, no intention of derailing the thread.

 

[ty_hot]

Oh, the Iran deal. Thanks Lula.

http://m.spiegel.de/international/world/a-696553.html
(2010 article)

With so many things being said about Lula (the person, not the president) its good to compare what our ex president did and what our coupist current government does in international relationships: from rising, demanding to have a voice to just barking and shaking the tail to every US interest always and anywhere.

 

[jvm]

An own goal by Trump while Iran watches bemusedly.

So, yeah.

 

[Mimosa97]

Fuck I forgot about those bastards' interests (Saudi Arabia), they would love this. That explains a lot seeing how they have quite a few friends in high places in the US government. I think you might be onto something. Saudi Arabia also couldn't give one shit about Israël, US relations with Europe nor how bad the USA looks in all of this.

As for Israël, it's not that big a win for them. I wouldn't think that every Israëli is a fan of Netanyahu (in fact the guy is a corrupt arsehole that talks with holocaust deniers in Eastern Europe ), and I don't think that every Israëli wants the USA and the Europeans to start quarreling about Iran, in fact not even the right in Israël would want that, I'd say. Outside of some crazies within Likud and the crazy parties right of Likud.

But anybody from IsraelGaf that can enlighten me a bit more about that, I mean logically I don't see the point of how alienating the USA from it's allies favours Israël. Outside how Bibi can spin this as a "win" and deflect the investigations that are currently going on about him and his family.

Mossad is pro-iran deal while Netanyahu and his right-wing fans are against.

 

[BaasRed]

But that is if they proof competent. At the moment I think of Iran as the Shia version of Saudi Arabia. Scary and wants to kill me . Which might be emotional and illogical sorry.

Not at all illogical.

 

[Bedameister]

If the US is taking all the Ls available everybody else has to win

 

[Kimawolf]

Why would any country trust us now? We have shown we will turn on you at the drop pf a dime. If I was NK i would NEVER EVER get rid of my nukes as its the only thing keeping the U.S. at bay (not the potential death of 100s of thousands. The current admin gives no fuck about that).

So yes we have lost face and Iran got a win by a unforced error.