Digital Foundry: Hands-on with the Forza Horizon 2 demo

TheCloser said:
Quit expressing my opinion? It's a free world buddy and the only reason I'm responding is because some in this thread have chosen to resort to hostile tactics in an attempt to discredit my argument. Again, pulling statements out of context of the discussion without background knowledge of said discussion in an attempt to discredit me is laughable at best. It's similar in style to gurrellia warfare in that instead of discussing the point at hand, you try to take cheap shots and go back into hiding. I stand by those opinions because they are opinions that are shared by a large group of people including myself. I didn't come into this thread to try and compare games but to respond to a post which I disagreed with. Again, I am entitled to express my opinion without fear of repercussion as long as I abide to the tos which I am. I'd suggest you take your mob mentality and back off bud.
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No guerilla warfare, sorry. I know what this means, I am the creator of "corridor racer" (well, somehow) ;) Of course everyone can have his opinion and of course, you are free to keep it. But saying there are obvious jaggies seems you have looked at bad images or videos and perhaps haven't seen the video or the images from the link this thread is based on.
 
c0de said:
No guerilla warfare, sorry. I know what this means, I am the creator of "corridor racer" (well, somehow) ;) Of course everyone can have his opinion and of course, you are free to keep it. But saying there are obvious jaggies seems you have looked at bad images or videos and perhaps haven't seen the video or the images from the link this thread is based on.
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You realize that the statement was pulled from the screenshots thread right? The goal of that thread is to display still images. The statement "There are obvious jaggies" can only be true or false in this scenario. Looking at the screenshot posted, that statement is true and factual. What is wrong there?
 
nib95 said:
At first I thought those FH1 shots were Photomode….but I can actually make out very minor jaggies, so presumably they're not?
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Ingame, best IQ of last gen, imho

Just fired up the game yesterday and it looks absolutely beautiful as far as IQ goes on a 1080p plasma.

But the generational gap is there; after watching a few Horizon 2 videos the environments in the prequel look a lot more basic in comparison, obviously.
 
TheCloser said:
You realize that the statement was pulled from the screenshots thread right? The goal of that thread is to display still images. The statement "There are obvious jaggies" can only be true or false in this scenario. Looking at the screenshot posted, that statement is true and factual. What is wrong there?
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The screenshot you pointed out though, does have very little aliasing. "Those jaggies man, wow." is exaggerated. FH1 had FXAA on top of it, but I am actually glad FH2 does not have that so we can get the crisp image it has.
 
TheCloser said:
You realize that the statement was pulled from the screenshots thread right? The goal of that thread is to display still images. The statement "There are obvious jaggies" can only be true or false in this scenario. Looking at the screenshot posted, that statement is true and factual. What is wrong there?
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As your post was in a DC thread replying to VanWinkle who didn't even provide an image could you show me which screenshot you actually meant?
 
TheCloser said:
Quit expressing my opinion? It's a free world buddy and the only reason I'm responding is because some in this thread have chosen to resort to hostile tactics in an attempt to discredit my argument. Again, pulling statements out of context of the discussion without background knowledge of said discussion in an attempt to discredit me is laughable at best. It's similar in style to gurrellia warfare in that instead of discussing the point at hand, you try to take cheap shots and go back into hiding. It's the equivalent of profile quoting in gamefaqs and is the lowest of the lowest form of arguments. I stand by those opinions because they are opinions that are shared by a large group of people including myself. I didn't come into this thread to try and compare games but to respond to a post which I disagreed with. Again, I am entitled to express my opinion without fear of repercussion as long as I abide to the tos which I am. I'd suggest you take your mob mentality and back off bud.
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Tell you what, how about you actually play the demo then come back to the thread before posting any further? Poring over screenshots on the internet is no way to judge the image quality of a game, especially not when aforementioned game is about racing through a world at top speeds. I've seen near unanimous praise on the 'net for the demo for it looking fantastic as well as being fun as hell to play, so while I'm not saying you're wrong, the general sentiment for the demo has to count for something.
 
TheCloser said:
Quit expressing my opinion? It's a free world buddy and the only reason I'm responding is because some in this thread have chosen to resort to hostile tactics in an attempt to discredit my argument. Again, pulling statements out of context of the discussion without background knowledge of said discussion in an attempt to discredit me is laughable at best. It's similar in style to gurrellia warfare in that instead of discussing the point at hand, you try to take cheap shots and go back into hiding. It's the equivalent of profile quoting in gamefaqs and is the lowest of the lowest form of arguments. I stand by those opinions because they are opinions that are shared by a large group of people including myself. I didn't come into this thread to try and compare games but to respond to a post which I disagreed with. Again, I am entitled to express my opinion without fear of repercussion as long as I abide to the tos which I am. I'd suggest you take your mob mentality and back off bud.
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But why are you comparing an open world racer to linear, non racing games? 2 of those games can't even hold a steady framerate and another is a PC game.

You tried to call out Playground for using techniques that weren't dynamic enough for you. Someone else showed you they were dynamic.

You then stated you didn't mean FH2 looked last gen, you just meant the era. Or whatever that means...then later you went ahead and stated it doesn't look as good as a PS3 non racing game.

It's fine to have an opinion....I think you're being called out because you're all over the place and putting out false info in your attempt to show just how last gen/era FH2 is. Not once have you offered an open world racer that looks better and does everything dynamic.
 
derFeef said:
The screenshot you pointed out though, does have very little aliasing. "Those jaggies man, wow." is exaggerated. FH1 had FXAA on top of it, but I am actually glad FH2 does not have that so we can get the crisp image it has.
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Really, well it may be because I am looking at it on a 32" tv/monitor but they were very evident to me. Not only on the silver car but the car behind it as well which was a Mercedes? The users car was as perfect but it appears to me that racer's cars use assets with more polygons that "game world cars"?
 
TheCloser said:
Really, well it may be because I am looking at it on a 32" tv/monitor but they were very evident to me. Not only on the silver car but the car behind it as well which was a Mercedes? The users car was as perfect but it appears to me that racer's cars use assets with more polygons that "game world cars"?
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Out of interest have you played through the demo?
 
theWB27 said:
But why are you comparing an open world racer to linear, non racing games? 2 of those games can't even hold a steady framerate and another is a PC game.

You tried to call out Playground for using techniques that weren't dynamic enough for you. Someone else showed you they were dynamic.

You then stated you didn't mean FH2 looked last gen, you just meant the era. Or whatever that means...then later you went ahead and stated it doesn't look as good as a PS3 non racing game.

It's fine to have an opinion....I think you're being called out because you're all over the place and putting out false info in your attempt to show just how last gen/era FH2 is. Not once have you offered an open world racer that looks better and does everything dynamic.
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Firstly, my statements are in an incorrect order. When these statements are viewed in the appropriate order then it makes logical sense. In regards to being dynamic, the only thing that was confirmed in the article was the use of physically based rendering. A technique which was also used in remember me on ps3 and xbox 360 if I remember correctly. It is not new and its not something we haven't seen in games before. What I want to know is if they are using full GI and not an impostor technique. If we all remember, the killzone devs claimed to be doing 1080p in multiplayer when they clearly were not.
 
bedlamite said:
Tell you what, how about you actually play the demo then come back to the thread before posting any further? Poring over screenshots on the internet is no way to judge the image quality of a game, especially not when aforementioned game is about racing through a world at top speeds. I've seen near unanimous praise on the 'net for the demo for it looking fantastic as well as being fun as hell to play, so while I'm not saying you're wrong, the general sentiment for the demo has to count for something.
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Again what you need to realize is that I am not criticizing the gameplay or the 'funness' of the game. I'm simply referring to the visuals. Like I mentioned earlier, I will play the demo this weekend but one thing I can guarantee is that my opinion of the visuals will not change. I've had the privilege of viewing screenshots and gamersyde videos so I know what to expect. I have no opinion on the gameplay as I have not played the game.
 
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
It's TheCloser, man. You should really start building up your ignore list.
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Nah, I'm not a fan of putting people on ignore. I'd rather discuss their opinions and if they happen to be trolling or having a laugh, so be it.

TheCloser said:
Oh yea, I will get a chance to play it this weekend. I'm going down to spend some time with a friend to play fifa 15 since Ea access is on xb1. Please keep in mind that when I say last gen, I'm not referring to the ps360 per say but to the Era. It looks like a pc game running at a higher res with better aa but the techniques aren't next gen. The reflections on the hood on the car is the same shit Turn10 has been doing for a while. The mirror the world on the hood of the car. I'm waiting for them to move from faking and bakinf a bunch of stuff to more dynamic techniques. This is what mean by not next gen.
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I think Playground are doing a lot more dynamic stuff than Turn10 were doing in Mainline 5. The article is pretty in depth in terms of what PG have managed to achieved, well worth reading.

Definitely check it out over the weekend though, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by how impressive everything looks and how insignificant the basic looking foliage really is when you're busy playing the game.
 
TheCloser said:
There's nothing stunning about forza horizon 2. It looks decisively last gen. It has excellent image quality and a good art direction but it's not remotely impressive on a technical level.
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Where is that Jennifer Lawrence "yeah, ok" gif when i need it?
 
TheCloser said:
Firstly, my statements are in an incorrect order. When these statements are viewed in the appropriate order then it makes logical sense. In regards to being dynamic, the only thing that was confirmed in the article was the use of physically based rendering. A technique which was also used in remember me on ps3 and xbox 360 if I remember correctly. It is not new and its not something we haven't seen in games before. What I want to know is if they are using full GI and not an impostor technique. If we all remember, the killzone devs claimed to be doing 1080p in multiplayer when they clearly were not.
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If anything you need to be more consistent with your opinion, which is clearly nothing wrong with. In your post you say "excellent image quality" - in the other you say "those jaggies man". It comes along as just trying to knock the game.
 
TheCloser said:
Firstly, my statements are in an incorrect order. When these statements are viewed in the appropriate order then it makes logical sense. In regards to being dynamic, the only thing that was confirmed in the article was the use of physically based rendering. A technique which was also used in remember me on ps3 and xbox 360 if I remember correctly. It is not new and its not something we haven't seen in games before. What I want to know is if they are using full GI and not an impostor technique. If we all remember, the killzone devs claimed to be doing 1080p in multiplayer when they clearly were not.
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Eh, I read your statements in the order you posted them in. Twisting them into order won't help the fact you're comparing games that are i completely different genres and gens. You picked a PS3, X1 and PC game. Shocker...the two devs who made these games are known for their visual prowess.

How many open world racers offer full GI on consoles? Why do you expect this? Because a technique was used last gen means it's not impressive this gen?

News, you should be expecting something better than GI...because GT used that solution. What's the next step in lighting beyond GI?

What do GG have to do with an open world racer?
 
derFeef said:
If anything you need to be more consistent with your opinion, which is clearly nothing wrong with. In your post you say "excellent image quality" - in the other you say "those jaggies man". It comes along as just trying to knock the game.
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Again I think it's a matter of context. 4x Msaa is nothing to laugh at as its something that is unheard of on consoles but when compared to pc......... You must realize that it is easy to notice visuals inconsistencies when everything else looks clean. Again, as someone pointed out, a lot of my complaints aren't visible during gameplay. Again, these statements have nothing to do with my initial statement in this thread. A user just decided to resort to the lowest form of argument and pull an out of context post into the thread to try and discredit my initial statement. If we want to discuss the validity of my aa statement, then we should do so in the screenshots threads where that statements belongs. I did not post it in this thread but again some choose not to argue properly. Anyways, I'm out. It was not my intent to cause commotion in the thread but I guess some people do not understand that opinions are subjective and not factual.

theWB27 said:
Eh, I read your statements in the order you posted them in. Twisting them into order won't help the fact you're comparing games that are i completely different genres and gens. You picked a PS3, X1 and PC game. Shocker...the two devs who made these games are known for their visual prowess.

How many open world racers offer full GI on consoles? Why do you expect this? Because a technique was used last gen means it's not impressive this gen?

News, you should be expecting something better than GI...because GT used that solution. What's the next step in lighting beyond GI?

What do GG have to do with an open world racer?
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I'd suggest you go back and read again. We at times tend to read things in a haste and mix up facts. Secondly I do not hold a double standard for games of different genres. Some games look stunning and some don't, oh well. Btw, I'm quite sure Gt used an impostor technique of GI kinda like killzones 1080p.

Finally, the next logical step in lighting is ray tracing. Now I'm out.
 
some initial thoughts:

First impressions are everything so why have i turned the game off?

1. An unskippable cheesy IRL video about festivals. and how to get there. Fuck off.

2. The first 'race' is followed by more cheesy unskippable videos. Thank fuck my sound is broken and i couldn't hear him talk.

So the game went off. And I enjoyed the 2 minutes of racing I played. I hate games that do this. It's the video game equivalent of 'making it all about you' at a dinner party. You don't wade into a group of people and start talking about how fantastic you are for 10 minutes and then expect them to like you. its the same with this game. strangely i quite like it. but its not day one purely because it is cringeworthy. /rant

---------

anyway...... the game looks solid, nothing particularly stunning imo. the handling is good, and i enjoyed the AI in the first race. but i think i've worked out why no games have recreated the fun of rallisport (this gets close) -> if i'm sliding sideways at 60 with VWs 4motion or whatever they now call it, I expect to move forward as well as sideways. why is a slide these days impossible to drive out of at any decent speed? why doesn't putting your foot down in a FW or 4W drive vehicle not pull you out of the slide?

anyway, i'll give it another shot when I can face the garishness of it all, but I definitely rate it higher than forza 5 (loved 1,2 and 4).
 
c0de said:
Sure FH2 looks better but again, it is kind of magic what Playground achieved on 360. The game's graphics and IQ are so damn good...
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Let's wait until the end of this generation when Devs completely max out the new consoles and the make a fair judgement. Resistance 1 looked worse that Doom3/HL2/Riddick even though it was on a nextgen console. And look how good the games looked in 2012/13.
 
TheCloser said:
Again what you need to realize is that I am not criticizing the gameplay or the 'funness' of the game. I'm simply referring to the visuals. Like I mentioned earlier, I will play the demo this weekend but one thing I can guarantee is that my opinion of the visuals will not change. I've had the privilege of viewing screenshots and gamersyde videos so I know what to expect. I have no opinion on the gameplay as I have not played the game.
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Let us know what you think after you play it, game looks amazing in motion. The race at midnight with the storm in particular looks great. It's no Drive Club but the game is definitely no slouch in the visuals department. But opinions are opinions so if the game doesn't look next Gen to you that's fine, just try it our first and let us know. I'm interested if your opinion changes on the visuals.
 
ShamePain said:
Let's wait until the end of this generation when Devs completely max out the new consoles and the make a fair judgement. Resistance 1 looked worse that Doom3/HL2/Riddick even though it was on a nextgen console. And look how good the games looked in 2012/13.
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Fair comment. But it will be interesting to see how 360 FH2 racks up against XOne FH2.

Another year on aging (Sumo) hardware against devs who really know their business (Playground) BUT Sumo are so high quality that I wouldn't be surprised if FH2 was the best looking last-gen title ever (including GTA V).

What does everyone else reckon?
 
TheCloser said:
Again what you need to realize is that I am not criticizing the gameplay or the 'funness' of the game. I'm simply referring to the visuals. Like I mentioned earlier, I will play the demo this weekend but one thing I can guarantee is that my opinion of the visuals will not change. I've had the privilege of viewing screenshots and gamersyde videos so I know what to expect. I have no opinion on the gameplay as I have not played the game.
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Not sure what the Gamersyde videos looked like, but I wasn't too impressed with the E3 videos I was viewing on Youtube. Foliage especially looked poor to me, but after playing the demo last night I did a 180. FH2 looks very crisp and sharp, and the foliage looks much better than the E3 videos I had viewed.

Edit: I only have one complaint, and it's minor. There's a race that takes place on a great looking wet road in the rain. First off there's all this engine noise, but ZERO sound effects of actually driving on a wet surface with tires kicking up water. I think that would've really helped with the immersion. Visibility is also too perfect to the point where it looked like the cars in front of me were simply floating on tiny water clouds. It was something I couldn't unsee.
 
Lego Boss said:
Fair comment. But it will be interesting to see how 360 FH2 racks up against XOne FH2.

Another year on aging (Sumo) hardware against devs who really know their business (Playground) BUT Sumo are so high quality that I wouldn't be surprised if FH2 was the best looking last-gen title ever (including GTA V).

What does everyone else reckon?
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I reckon I've never seen anything Sumo's ever done on console that compares to what Playground Games did with FH1. All the Sumo racers I have (outside of maybe the original Xbox release of Outrun 2) are great looking games, that play awesomely, but appear to have very little regard for stable frame rates (even Outrun Online Arcade somehow fails to perform as well as the previous gen's version). Playground produce a game that I'd say is graphically beyond all of Sumo's console release, whilst not dropping a frame.

This time around Sumo already has PG's engine in place, but I'm not confident on them significantly improving upon it.
 
Interesting debate, I think they have achieved what they set out to achieve and done so brilliantly. I think it was a concious choice to implement a very high quality motion blur and AA solution, rather than higher poly models. I think it's a trade off that works really well for them, hats off because in motion this game is delightful.
 
KidJr said:
... in motion this game is delightful.
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Heck, it's delightful just sitting still.

It's a blast whether you are a racing fan, or a people watching fan.
I've created a new genre!

iNs5sQdHryGXg.gif


i4MMa8alJ5SSU.gif
 
Ffs, if this supported the official Xbox 360 steering wheel, I would properly consider buying an Xbox One to play it. Guess I'll just buy the 360 version instead :(
 
I don't know which thread to post in now..lol. So many H2 threads.

Game also gave me my first "Oh @#$!" moment last night.

I have a slower version of this in the other thread. I was doing a good 80-100mph after hitting a speed camera, lost complete control, caught a split second glimpse of two trees ahead, knew my car was about to be totaled, and ended up just losing a headlight (and removing some bark) as I nearly split them perfectly...while sideways.

Talk about heart pounding, LOL

iopXkOiiGXDKE.gif
 
Image quality and solid framerate in open world is this game's strongest suit. I wasn't too impressed with how it looked, but what's there is crisp and clean to the level you rarely if ever see even on new consoles.

Opus Angelorum said:
Forza 5 would look significantly better with 4xMSAA.
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It really would. IQ in that game was terrible IMO. But good luck getting that in 1080p and 60FPS.
 
rokkerkory said:
FH2 'looks decisively last gen'? Lol

Time to lay off the drugs man.
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I've just stumbled upon this video. Its old so I guess most people here have seen it, no idea how I missed it, but shows a lot of environments I hadn't seen before.

http://youtu.be/e1Q02SZkVCM

Now, being open world, what the game looks like largely depends on where your car is, what part of the scenery you're seeing etc, but after seeing this, and gamersyde videos...I'm not so sure anymore what the best looking racer of 2014 is going to be..

This game looks decidedly current gen. Not just that, its one of the best looking current gen games.
 
MemoryHumanity said:
Ffs, if this supported the official Xbox 360 steering wheel, I would properly consider buying an Xbox One to play it. Guess I'll just buy the 360 version instead :(
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the steering wheel issue is a major fuckup from both Microsoft and Sony. Releasing two really interesting racing games (DC/FH2) with so limited wheel support is criminal.
Releasing a console with little to no BC for controller peripherals is also criminal.
 
ShamePain said:
Let's wait until the end of this generation when Devs completely max out the new consoles and the make a fair judgement. Resistance 1 looked worse that Doom3/HL2/Riddick even though it was on a nextgen console. And look how good the games looked in 2012/13.
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I think we don't even have to wait till the end of the gen.
Uncharted 4 will probably already change perceptions of next gen consoles.
That is if NaughtyDog actually delivers a game looking as good as the teaser at 1080p and 60FPS.
 
TheCloser said:
Oh yea, I will get a chance to play it this weekend. I'm going down to spend some time with a friend to play fifa 15 since Ea access is on xb1. Please keep in mind that when I say last gen, I'm not referring to the ps360 per say but to the Era. It looks like a pc game running at a higher res with better aa but the techniques aren't next gen. The reflections on the hood on the car is the same shit Turn10 has been doing for a while. The mirror the world on the hood of the car. I'm waiting for them to move from faking and bakinf a bunch of stuff to more dynamic techniques. This is what mean by not next gen.
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I'll respect your opinion as much as anyone else's, but if you base your opionion on misinformed facts, like baked lighting in Horizon 2, then you're going to start losing credibility. I suggest you do your homework before entering into an argument.
 
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