MadchesterManc
Member
Performance mode seems alright on console. Tough to see the cutbacks for 60fps when the post processing is so thick. Might give it another try on the Pro
Get em told
Get em told
Digital Foundry: Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 Enhanced - DF Review - PS5/ PS5 Pro/ Xbox Series X/ Steam Deck!
- Thread starter adamsapple
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Bojji
Member
What Tom prefers is irrelevant, game has setting for it so every player can choose. Video shows standard PSSR noise in action, at the same time TSR ghosting is AWFUL so I bet PSSR is much better in this aspect.
You know from a tech analysis I expect to see a comparison. Where exactly PSSR is more noisy compared TSR? The only thing I noticed is the typical haze effect in the grass through the fog. But transparencies with TSR are more pixelated and aliased. Don't know if it's better such effects than the PSSR noise but it's really curious to hear he preferred it.
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Lagspike_exe
Member
The constant trashing of PSSR by DF is laughable. PSSR looks much better in motion than the non-ML upscalers. Judging them by still images when the spatial upscalers can accumulate a lot of signal is misleading.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Many opinions don't matter, as there is no set criteria to what constitutes a game.
They are literally the major experts to find out any PSSR limitations but about TSR and FSR or whatever are far more accomodating. It's really a weird attitude.
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Lagspike_exe
Member
A lot of their reporting is flat out bizarre. I remember when they did not particularly like BG3 PS5 Pro. I played a ton of BG3 on OG PS5. The difference in performance mode vs. OG PS5 is absolute night and day. You have to be seriously biased to claim it's not a huge leap by cherry picking issues.
Because they always focused to the flaws when they look at the PSSR. PSSR it's limited with AA and denoising but in motion give more or less the same quality in still where the others upscales are better in still but when you start to move show all their limits compared the PSSR.
Mark my words when the PSSR will be expanded with the FSR4 algorithm, FSR4 won't be more so good because DF will find any sort of flaws who missed when FSR4 was only on pc. My safe bet.
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Diego Brasil
Neo Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
This thing about preferring TSR to PSSR even though the latter looks better in motion feels odd…
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Going by what they say, TSR is more stable, less noise and artifacts.
The game is so heavily post processed that it's barely possible to tell it apart in most cases anyway.
TSR more stable, less noise and artifacts. A miracle happened there.
playbignbox
Member
I watched the video and didn't see the "much better in motion" you mentioned.
The truth is that the PSSR is a disappointment; it was just another piece of misleading marketing by Sony to sell the PS5 Pro.
Lagspike_exe
Member
TSR is obviously not better in motion. Watch the video.
Ok show us how much better is TSR over PSSR. Make a capture. TSR and FSR can be better only in still in AA and denoising though more blurred. The problem are when you start to move or something else moving.
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viveks86
Member
Not in motion. In stills. Even for a barely interactive game like this, that's a useless conclusion. DF needs to rethink who they are making recommendations for. People who play the game or pause it. I don't think they are doing this out of bias. They are doing this out of staring too much at static screens.
playbignbox
Member
Just put it at 14:50 of the video and you will see the noises in the PSSR that are not in the TSR?
Where? What details I have to look? If you zoom to the grass there are even more raytracing pixellated artifacts with TSR.
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Come on mate everyone knows you only buy games to take screenshots, and not play them.
viveks86
Member
There are two issues with it. One is specular highlights. He doesn't show this in the comparison, but you would see it flickering in the two marked areas in full screen at around 14:36-14:40.
EDIT: It's actually even more visible a few seconds before around 14:34
The other is slightly more distant detail with TSR in stills. This is simply how PSSR works in general. It's softer. This is simply due to slightly different levels of sharpening between TSR and PSSR.
Overall, neither issues are worse than the very obvious noisiness of TSR, which is in the same comparison footage but he somehow glosses over. There is so much visible flickering with TSR that's far more subtle with PSSR in that comparison.
And who cares about stills, right? So imo, PSSR is better as per the shown footage. Nothing dramatic. Not even by a good margin. I'm just glad it didn't shit the bed like Silent Hill 2.
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Lagspike_exe
Member
These were pretty much my impressions as well. TSR flickering in motion in very obvious in the scenes you highlighted.There are two issues with it. One is specular highlights. He doesn't show this in the comparison, but you would see it flickering in the two circled areas in full screen at around 14:36-14:40.
The other is slightly more distant detail with TSR in stills. This is simply how PSSR works in general. It's softer. This is simply due to slightly different levels of sharpening between TSR and PSSR.
Overall, neither issues are worse than the very obvious noisiness of TSR, which is in the same comparison footage but he somehow glosses over. There is so much visible flickering with TSR that's far more subtle with PSSR in that comparison.
And who cares about stills, right? So imo, PSSR is better as per the shown footage. Nothing dramatic. Not even by a good margin. I'm just glad it didn't shit the bed like Silent Hill 2.
You kidding. Without offence to your dedication, TSR in motion is always a pixelated/ghosting show. PSSR is nothing of special because TSR in still has some sharper/more stable details? It's really a personal take. PSSR it's a league ahead. I mean I have played enough games to notice TSR never reach the same stability and clarity of PSSR in motion. Now if we want say it's not perfect, sure, but it's out of mind see preference for such limited upscaler.There are two issues with it. One is specular highlights. He doesn't show this in the comparison, but you would see it flickering in the two marked areas in full screen at around 14:36-14:40.
EDIT: It's actually even more visible a few seconds before around 14:34
The other is slightly more distant detail with TSR in stills. This is simply how PSSR works in general. It's softer. This is simply due to slightly different levels of sharpening between TSR and PSSR.
Overall, neither issues are worse than the very obvious noisiness of TSR, which is in the same comparison footage but he somehow glosses over. There is so much visible flickering with TSR that's far more subtle with PSSR in that comparison.
And who cares about stills, right? So imo, PSSR is better as per the shown footage. Nothing dramatic. Not even by a good margin. I'm just glad it didn't shit the bed like Silent Hill 2.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
And who cares about stills, right? So imo, PSSR is better as per the shown footage. Nothing dramatic. Not even by a good margin. I'm just glad it didn't shit the bed like Silent Hill 2.
PSSR (right) shows more noise/flickering type artifacts on the plank if you move this segment a bit forward.
Tried to gif it, not sure if it's a good representative but keep an eye on the plank on the right side.
And TSR show pixelation/ghosting around the characters plus pixelation where PSSR flicker/aliased.PSSR (right) shows more noise/flickering type artifacts on the plank if you move this segment a bit forward.
Tried to gif it, not sure if it's a good representative but keep an eye on the plank on the right side.
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viveks86
Member
That's fair. I just wanted to try and point out what the differences even are, as the DF commentary doesn't line up with the footage.
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viveks86
Member
Yeah I see that. But don't you think the flickering with TSR in the comparison is more obvious? All upscaling comes with some drawbacks after all. What is more noticeable?PSSR (right) shows more noise/flickering type artifacts on the plank if you move this segment a bit forward.
Tried to gif it, not sure if it's a good representative but keep an eye on the plank on the right side.
playbignbox
Member
Man, I think the mere fact that we're discussing all this and needing to capture distant scenes with zoom shows that the differences aren't "much better." And this becomes even more questionable when we see the TSR being better in some situations.
I just find this attempt to create some problem with DF funny, as if they were biased because they think TSR is better in this title.
There's only one real problem with all this: Sony overpromised with the PSSR, and it's nowhere near what they wanted to convey in that PS5 Pro presentation. It was a marketing ploy, and many people fell for it once again. In fact, the PS5 Pro as a whole is a disappointment.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I don't think either is noticeable in regular motion, lol. Like mentioned before, the game's thick layers of post processing cover over most 'blemishes' anyway.
Markio128
Member
I tried the original on Pro this evening and it looks pretty darn good. I doubt I'll finish it again though because those puzzles are tedious as fook the 2nd time around.
For those who have played the sequel, are the puzzles the same kind of deal - aligning broken up symbols to open doors?
For those who have played the sequel, are the puzzles the same kind of deal - aligning broken up symbols to open doors?
viveks86
Member
We can agree on that. For the most part, the average gamer wouldn't notice. And for a game that looks this good on console, that's all credit to the devs.
If only the game itself was good...
What exactly Sony overpromised with the PSSR? Enlight us. It's definitely better than FSR or TSR if it's what you meant, such upscalers are quite limited at lower base resolution in motion. You can have appreciable result at 1080p, below it, they are both more problematic and ineffective than PSSR. A disappointment it's read again and again all the same generic arguments without provide effective basis but just complains.
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playbignbox
Member
What did Sony overpromise? Did you watch the presentation and see how they emphasized PSSR? Do I need to name all the games like Silent Hill 2, Jedi Survivor or Alan Wake 2 that got worse with PSSR? Exactly in the games that most "need" a competent upscaling solution.
Hellblade 2 is another example of how this upscaling technique isn't anything special, and yet you guys still defend it, lol
Not only that, you guys even want to criticize DF for pointing this out lol
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Excuse me? Lol they are not absolutely worse the hell you even talking about. Yeah I exactly blame DF because people disinformed like you always reach such stupid conclusions thanks to them without even really know of what they talking about.
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playbignbox
Member
The only stupid conclusion is to defend a technique that you can't even tell the difference from (like in the video) or that makes it worse. You know they removed it from SH2 Remake, right? Or that it became more unstable in Alan Wake 2?
Anyway, I'm tired of answering your questions by pretending not to understand. Keep defending the company that delivers a mediocre solution but charges a premium price tied to the hardware.
After updating to the Pro I was set aback by how bad the IQ in AW2 looks (in balance 40 FPS mode), it's all a shimmering blurry mess.
I'm not defending anything. You simply don't know of what you talking spite out approximate discourses. Neither DF has ever talked of games getting worse with the PSSR. This is just trolling.
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playbignbox
Member
No man, your eyes are biased by DF lmao
Shimmering ok but blurry mess
wut FSR2 it's more blurried than PSSR eh.
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Radical_3d
Member
Everyone's doing Epic's work, trying to optimise that POS of an engine. Fantastic work by ninja theory and a beacon of hope to the future CDPR optimisations for The Witcher 4.
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DanielG165
Member
NT are genuine masters of UE. Really really impressive gains here, especially considering the improvements/enhancements. I hadn't thought Hellblade 2 would ever see a 60 fps mode on console, and not one that is as rock solid as this one is. I've already played through it once on PC, but I may just give it a try on Series X now too.
Awesome work all around! These consoles still have plenty left in the tank, especially with proper optimization.
Awesome work all around! These consoles still have plenty left in the tank, especially with proper optimization.
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Shmunter
Member
Playboard
I've played Alan wake 2 loads, and the pssr mode is better then the fsr2 mode.
Especially when you actually play the game, i.e move the camera.
Silent hill 2 is definitely a crappy implementation, it looks awful especially in the performance mode
metareferential
Member
Welcome to next-gen graphics, Playstation.
Before you idiots come around with the same old "no gameplay argument": if you don't like the game, I don't give a damn. It's the best looking game out there, period.
And by the way: give it a chance. It's a great ride (aside from some boring puzzles, which were even more boring in the first game), especially so on a nice screen with some good audio.
Before you idiots come around with the same old "no gameplay argument": if you don't like the game, I don't give a damn. It's the best looking game out there, period.
And by the way: give it a chance. It's a great ride (aside from some boring puzzles, which were even more boring in the first game), especially so on a nice screen with some good audio.